Judges to piece of paper: *sign*

FTFY, Trollmitter.

*cross fingers*

Please be the watershed moment that begins the process of making sensible & sane copyright and patent laws.

*clicks link*

GOD DAMN IT!

Not quite, Subby. More like...

Judges to Apple: "Monetary damages would be enough compensation if you win your patent infringement suit, so we'll lift the injunction against Samsung. The suit can proceed."
Judges to Samsung: "Keep detailed records of every unit sold, all advertising, etc. If you lose the infringement suit, you're going to paying every penny to Apple."

They clearly stole Apple's advanced rectangle technology.

Clearly inferior to the 'Jacksh** and go fark yourself' ruling.

My question is this, what about all the 'potential' losses that have been caused, if Apple loses? Samsung should get compensated for having their product unfairly banned from market (Up until this point at least) because Apple is a tool and decided to use the courts rather than the market to compete.

I vote we use RIAA math. I'm thinking 1 trillion dollars in lost sales

sarah_t_s: *cross fingers*

Please be the watershed moment that begins the process of making sensible & sane copyright and patent laws.

*clicks link*

GOD DAMN IT!

Yeah, never gonna happen. We can dream, though.

Kinek: what about all the 'potential' losses that have been caused, if Apple loses? Samsung should get compensated for having their product unfairly banned from market (Up until this point at least) because Apple is a tool and decided to use the courts rather than the market to compete.

Apple requested the injunction, but it was the courts' decision to grant it.

Samsung would have to get the court to admit not only that their action was unfair, but also that the court itself is financially liable for any ramifications of their rulings. Can't happen.

HotWingConspiracy: They clearly stole Apple's advanced rectangle technology.

I know I'm oversimplifying here. But so far, Apple's claim against Android products appears to be the equivalent of Ford claiming they patented the four-door sedan, and have asked judges to block sales of the Nissan Altima.

clkeagle: HotWingConspiracy: They clearly stole Apple's advanced rectangle technology.

I know I'm oversimplifying here. But so far, Apple's claim against Android products appears to be the equivalent of Ford claiming they patented the four-door sedan, and have asked judges to block sales of the Nissan Altima.

Not really. In the European proceedings, the judge held up both an iPad and a Galaxy Tab and asked Samsung's attorneys which was which, and they couldn't answer. This would be more like Ford claiming they patented the design of the Taurus and asking a judge to block sales of the nearly indistinguishable Nissan "Maurus".

Marine1:
Yeah, never gonna happen. We can dream, though.

Yeah I know, we're building castles in the sky but I seriously hope Apple & others going patent troll crazy is just the pain we must endure before the system is sorted out.

sarah_t_s: Marine1:
Yeah, never gonna happen. We can dream, though.

Yeah I know, we're building castles in the sky but I seriously hope Apple & others going patent troll crazy is just the pain we must endure before the system is sorted out.

Unlikely. Congress just passed the biggest patent reform act in 50 years, and it didn't have anything the anti-patent people were demanding.

And Apple's not a patent troll. A patent troll is not simply "anyone who uses a patent I don't like".

moistD to retailers on black friday: "Where are Galaxy 10.1 sales? WHAR?"

Theaetetus: Not really. In the European proceedings, the judge held up both an iPad and a Galaxy Tab and asked Samsung's attorneys which was which, and they couldn't answer. This would be more like Ford claiming they patented the design of the Taurus and asking a judge to block sales of the nearly indistinguishable Nissan "Maurus".

But those lawyers were idiots (at least in terms of technology). The tab is skinnier and doesn't have a home button. And I have to assume they were turned off at the time because the software looks vastly different. And they have totally different logos on the back.

But I'm a tech guy. And I probably wouldn't be able to distinguish a ford sadan from an altima. That doesn't mean one of them should be banned.

Theaetetus:

Not really. In the European proceedings, the judge held up both an iPad and a Galaxy Tab and asked Samsung's attorneys which was which, and they couldn't answer. This would be more like Ford claiming they patented the design of the Taurus and asking a judge to block sales of the nearly indistinguishable Nissan "Maurus".

But is it the attorneys job to know what the galaxy tab looks like. I bet if they had someone that has used the tablet they could tell the difference. I mean the thing is smaller and has button on the front that the iPad doesn't have.

TNel: Theaetetus:

Not really. In the European proceedings, the judge held up both an iPad and a Galaxy Tab and asked Samsung's attorneys which was which, and they couldn't answer. This would be more like Ford claiming they patented the design of the Taurus and asking a judge to block sales of the nearly indistinguishable Nissan "Maurus".

But is it the attorneys job to know what the galaxy tab looks like. I bet if they had someone that has used the tablet they could tell the difference. I mean the thing is smaller and has button on the front that the iPad doesn't have.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 638x431]

That's not the model the issue was with, it was the 10.1.

HotWingConspiracy: They clearly stole Apple's advanced rectangle technology.

Hey man, they're shiny rectangles.

redpanda2: Theaetetus: Not really. In the European proceedings, the judge held up both an iPad and a Galaxy Tab and asked Samsung's attorneys which was which, and they couldn't answer. This would be more like Ford claiming they patented the design of the Taurus and asking a judge to block sales of the nearly indistinguishable Nissan "Maurus".

But those lawyers were idiots (at least in terms of technology). The tab is skinnier and doesn't have a home button. And I have to assume they were turned off at the time because the software looks vastly different. And they have totally different logos on the back.

But I'm a tech guy. And I probably wouldn't be able to distinguish a ford sadan from an altima. That doesn't mean one of them should be banned.

My father has the Galaxy 10.1 (I own the original Galaxy Tab) and my Aunt owns the Ipad2. There are several differences when both are on outside the software. But the Galaxy needs to be on to notice the lite up buttons for the home, back and option keys.

/Loves Android and dislikes Apple. (Still have a few Apple products though. Just dont use them often)

TNel: Theaetetus:

Not really. In the European proceedings, the judge held up both an iPad and a Galaxy Tab and asked Samsung's attorneys which was which, and they couldn't answer. This would be more like Ford claiming they patented the design of the Taurus and asking a judge to block sales of the nearly indistinguishable Nissan "Maurus".

But is it the attorneys job to know what the galaxy tab looks like. I bet if they had someone that has used the tablet they could tell the difference. I mean the thing is smaller and has button on the front that the iPad doesn't have.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 638x431]

Thats the 7" one. The 10.1 is alot bigger.

redpanda2:
But those lawyers were idiots (at least in terms of technology). The tab is skinnier and doesn't have a home button.

Not appreciably skinnier, apparently, and since the iPad home button is black, it disappears into the bezel.

And I have to assume they were turned off at the time because the software looks vastly different.

Yes, because this was a design patent suit over the design of the tablet, not the software.

And they have totally different logos on the back.

If I put a BMW emblem on my Ford, is it suddenly a BMW?

But I'm a tech guy. And I probably wouldn't be able to distinguish a ford sadan from an altima. That doesn't mean one of them should be banned.

On the contrary, I believe you could distinguish them. But that aside, these are Samsung's lawyers, who had been drafting briefs for months discussing how wildly different the devices were, such that no reasonable person could confuse them. If they don't know anything about the device in question, doesn't that make their argument suspect?

Theaetetus:
And Apple's not a patent troll. A patent troll is not simply "anyone who uses a patent I don't like".

It is well know that the American political scene is run by corporations, to expect sane & sensible from there is asking for trouble.

If they aren't trolling then what term would you prefer because it doesn't seem to be submarine patents either. Perhaps drift net patenting? Regardless of the term you wish to use I think "not working as intended" sums up the majority of peoples thoughts.

Theaetetus:

You know, if you remove things like aspect ratio, logos, software, and buttons from consideration, you're right back to the idea that apple patented the black rectangle.

And I'm still entirely confident that I could tell which was which, on or off, from the front or back, so I don't know what was wrong with those lawyers. But if you asked me to identify which sedan was which, I'd stare at you blankly.

sarah_t_s: Theaetetus:
And Apple's not a patent troll. A patent troll is not simply "anyone who uses a patent I don't like".

It is well know that the American political scene is run by corporations, to expect sane & sensible from there is asking for trouble.

If they aren't trolling then what term would you prefer because it doesn't seem to be submarine patents either. Perhaps drift net patenting? Regardless of the term you wish to use I think "not working as intended" sums up the majority of peoples thoughts.

Submarine patents don't really exist anymore, thanks to changes in the law back in 1997. I suppose drift net patenting is a fine term, but it still doesn't apply to Apple... They make products. You can't really claim that they're patenting everything in the world to occupy the field when they're putting out products covered by their patents.

redpanda2: You know, if you remove things like aspect ratio, logos, software, and buttons from consideration, you're right back to the idea that apple patented the black rectangle.

Aspect ratio isn't removed from consideration, nor was the button... The point was that the button is nearly invisible, so the fact that it's there or not there is mostly irrelevant. As for the aspect ratio, if someone looking at them side by side can't tell the difference, then it's apparently not different enough.

And yeah, Apple did patent the black rectangle, albeit a very specific black rectangle. It was a design patent, not a utility patent, and honestly, prior to the iPad, there really wasn't anything with the same design.

Theaetetus: redpanda2: You know, if you remove things like aspect ratio, logos, software, and buttons from consideration, you're right back to the idea that apple patented the black rectangle.

Aspect ratio isn't removed from consideration, nor was the button... The point was that the button is nearly invisible, so the fact that it's there or not there is mostly irrelevant. As for the aspect ratio, if someone looking at them side by side can't tell the difference, then it's apparently not different enough.

And yeah, Apple did patent the black rectangle, albeit a very specific black rectangle. It was a design patent, not a utility patent, and honestly, prior to the iPad, there really wasn't anything with the same design.
[blog.wtfconcept.com image 500x700]

Translation: *slurp slurp slurp* Oh I love your knob, Mr Zombie Jobs.

Theaetetus: if someone looking at them side by side can't tell the difference, then it's apparently not different enough.

If someone is looking at them side by side and can't tell the difference, they're blind.

And selective graphic is selective.

Theaetetus: You can't really claim that they're patenting everything in the world to occupy the field when they're putting out products covered by their patents.

Look, I agree that in some respects TouchWiz does look maybe a little too like iOS for comfort; which is really the issue, not Android vs iOS but the UI that Samsung put on top of it.

On the other hand the forced grid system does work very well for touch interfaces, so you're bound to get similarities at some point. Frankly neither company are in the right.

As to that picture posted... play fair. Those "pre-iPad" tablets still exist and still look like that, they're designed for field engineers and such to cart around and be survivable. Your "post-iPad" stuff is all consumer slates; a market segment Apple were, I admit, the first to break in to.

Theaetetus: clkeagle: HotWingConspiracy: They clearly stole Apple's advanced rectangle technology.

I know I'm oversimplifying here. But so far, Apple's claim against Android products appears to be the equivalent of Ford claiming they patented the four-door sedan, and have asked judges to block sales of the Nissan Altima.

Not really. In the European proceedings, the judge held up both an iPad and a Galaxy Tab and asked Samsung's attorneys which was which, and they couldn't answer. This would be more like Ford claiming they patented the design of the Taurus and asking a judge to block sales of the nearly indistinguishable Nissan "Maurus".

And if you weren't cherry picking your story, you'd continue reading that same story and realize the lawyer did answer after a moment, and answered correctly.

Seriously, what's up with using the court system? If Apples product is better, then they should'nt fear the Tab. The action screams "I CAN'T COMPETE IN A FAIR MARKET. FIXITFIXITFIXITFIXITFIXIT"

Kinek:
Seriously, what's up with using the court system? If Apples product is better, then they should'nt fear the Tab. The action screams "I CAN'T COMPETE IN A FAIR MARKET. FIXITFIXITFIXITFIXITFIXIT"

That's the crazy thing, Apple can compete in a fair market, they're the kings of marketing.

Mac sales are up, iOS devices sell as fast as they can make them. iPod has become a generic term for "MP3 player". Companies dream of having the levels of mindshare Apple do.

FFS people queue up outside the stores to get the new iPhone (love my iPad and MBP but would rather have a Sensation for my phone), so this is just megacorps being dicks to each other simply because they can.

sarah_t_s: Kinek:
Seriously, what's up with using the court system? If Apples product is better, then they should'nt fear the Tab. The action screams "I CAN'T COMPETE IN A FAIR MARKET. FIXITFIXITFIXITFIXITFIXIT"

That's the crazy thing, Apple can compete in a fair market, they're the kings of marketing.

Mac sales are up, iOS devices sell as fast as they can make them. iPod has become a generic term for "MP3 player". Companies dream of having the levels of mindshare Apple do.

FFS people queue up outside the stores to get the new iPhone (love my iPad and MBP but would rather have a Sensation for my phone), so this is just megacorps being dicks to each other simply because they can.

Part of me thinks that, the other half says that Apple sees that they've created a market, and are now prison-arming the shiat out of it. That's not how a market works. Companies may -like- it to work that way, but that's called a monopoly, and that's bad mmkay.

sarah_t_s: Theaetetus: You can't really claim that they're patenting everything in the world to occupy the field when they're putting out products covered by their patents.

Look, I agree that in some respects TouchWiz does look maybe a little too like iOS for comfort; which is really the issue, not Android vs iOS but the UI that Samsung put on top of it.

On the other hand the forced grid system does work very well for touch interfaces, so you're bound to get similarities at some point. Frankly neither company are in the right.
.

I thought you couldn't patent "look and feel" for software.

sarah_t_s: this is just megacorps being dicks to each other simply because they can.

What's the point of having a large legal department if you never use it, right?

/hey Samsung - just farking change the color to dark grey, make the corners slightly less rounded and... done! Totally looks different from the iPad

TNel: sarah_t_s: Theaetetus: You can't really claim that they're patenting everything in the world to occupy the field when they're putting out products covered by their patents.

Look, I agree that in some respects TouchWiz does look maybe a little too like iOS for comfort; which is really the issue, not Android vs iOS but the UI that Samsung put on top of it.

On the other hand the forced grid system does work very well for touch interfaces, so you're bound to get similarities at some point. Frankly neither company are in the right.
.

I thought you couldn't patent "look and feel" for software.

Design patent, not utility patent. It only covers look and feel.

D135: /hey Samsung - just farking change the color to dark grey, make the corners slightly less rounded and... done! Totally looks different from the iPad

They're way ahead of you:

Impasse: HotWingConspiracy: They clearly stole Apple's advanced rectangle technology.

Hey man, they're shiny rectangles.

With rounded corners!

But seriously, I had a chance to hold both my iPad and somebody's Galaxy tab to compare them directly, and they look nothing alike to me.

Theaetetus: And yeah, Apple did patent the black rectangle, albeit a very specific black rectangle. It was a design patent, not a utility patent, and honestly, prior to the iPad, there really wasn't anything with the same design.

The iPhone :)

ProfessorOhki: Theaetetus: And yeah, Apple did patent the black rectangle, albeit a very specific black rectangle. It was a design patent, not a utility patent, and honestly, prior to the iPad, there really wasn't anything with the same design.

The iPhone :)

... touche.

When is Nokia and IBM going to sue Apple for stealing the smartphone idea?

Why would you buy Galaxy Tab 10.1 when you can get Asus Transformer Prime that demolishes Galaxy Tab (and Ipad 2 for that matter) on all specifications (processor, display, memory storage, SD support) at the same price?

Link

Masso: Why would you buy Galaxy Tab 10.1 when you can get Asus Transformer Prime that demolishes Galaxy Tab (and Ipad 2 for that matter) on all specifications (processor, display, memory storage, SD support) at the same price?

Link
[img.gadgetian.com image 555x969]

"Release Status Un Released" <- That could by why some people made that call?

December 8 man, it's coming December 8.

Masso: Why would you buy Galaxy Tab 10.1 when you can get Asus Transformer Prime that demolishes Galaxy Tab (and Ipad 2 for that matter) on all specifications (processor, display, memory storage, SD support) at the same price?

Perhaps the "3G - TBD, 4G support - TBD"?

Masso: Why would you buy Galaxy Tab 10.1 when you can get Asus Transformer Prime that demolishes Galaxy Tab (and Ipad 2 for that matter) on all specifications (processor, display, memory storage, SD support) at the same price?

Link
[img.gadgetian.com image 555x969]

For me? Because the Galaxy 10.1 was free (gifted from someone else).

Masso: December 8 man, it's coming December 8.

But I can walk in to a store right now and leave with a Galaxy Tab (or an iPad 2). Which makes either of those devices superior to the Prime.

You can enter the Prime in to the wall pissing contest after it's released and in the stores not before. Until then it's as fictional as the iPad 3.

sarah_t_s: Masso: December 8 man, it's coming December 8.

But I can walk in to a store right now and leave with a Galaxy Tab (or an iPad 2). Which makes either of those devices superior to the Prime.

You can enter the Prime in to the wall pissing contest after it's released and in the stores not before. Until then it's as fictional as the iPad 3.

I can't believe they missed Black Friday in the US. Piss-poor release planning.

The design team from Star Trek should sue them all. Clearly they established prior use with the PADD in Next Generation.

Masso: Why would you buy Galaxy Tab 10.1 when you can get Asus Transformer Prime that demolishes Galaxy Tab (and Ipad 2 for that matter) on all specifications (processor, display, memory storage, SD support) at the same price?

Link
[img.gadgetian.com image 555x969]

If you buy things based solely on how big the checklist of specs and features is, you're doing it wrong.

servlet: Masso: Why would you buy Galaxy Tab 10.1 when you can get Asus Transformer Prime that demolishes Galaxy Tab (and Ipad 2 for that matter) on all specifications (processor, display, memory storage, SD support) at the same price?

Link
[img.gadgetian.com image 555x969]

If you buy things based solely on how big the checklist of specs and features is, you're doing it wrong.

They both run Android, which means the UX will be the same or similar, and the Transformer Prime matches or beats everything about the Galaxy Tab at the same price points. I'm not sure how opting for the clearly superior tablet is "doing it wrong".

servlet: If you buy things based solely on how big the checklist of specs and features is, you're doing it wrong.

No dude. Once the Prime comes out there is no reason to buy any android tablet that's currently on the market, except maybe price. Asus has even been one of the best manufacturers at getting OS updates out.