You could put that sappy ASPCA-esque music over Meatspin and people would still be crying.

Great video.

I just don't understand how any could do testing on animals.

New products need to be tested on someone. If it is not animals, it will be people.

ambassador_ahab: Have you ever been sick and needed medicine? Do you have kids? Have they ever needed medicine?



We have people on death row who have contributed NOTHING to society.

Test on them and let them go out having actually helped a little...

Animal testing sucks and should only be used where it is absolutely necessary. And in those cases there should strong regulations that ensure it's done to as few animals as possible in the most humane way (anesthesia, etc).

But, in terms of the total amount of animal suffering, testing causes far less than our meat eating habits. Especially when coupled with "factory farming".

/not a vegetarian

pwhp_67: ambassador_ahab: Have you ever been sick and needed medicine? Do you have kids? Have they ever needed medicine?



We have people on death row who have contributed NOTHING to society.

Test on them and let them go out having actually helped a little...

THIS THIS THIS

If you're gonna die for crimes, might as well do something useful for society. Becoming a robot and saving the human resistance against the robots also counts

Interesting responses. I await my flames, but I assure you that I know what I'm talking about.

1) Even if we were to be ethically ok with doing preliminary testing on humans, which I hope we are far from as a society, we certainly wouldn't have enough people, even in our prisons. Also, frankly, no researcher would want the uncertainty of a human subject in a prison. Lab animals are clean and healthy, and you know their whole medical history.

2) There is no replacement right now. Computer models are nowhere near close enough.

3) There are strict rules in place to minimize the number of animals used and to ensure that their living conditions are, if not what we'd want for our pets, at the very least clean, dry, and warm with sufficient food and water as well as exercise and regular positive human contact. Obtain and read The Guide for the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals if you want to be informed.

4) Unless you have never been vaccinated, never taken even an over-the-counter pill for a headache, never used so much as lip gloss or lotion, and never eaten a commercially packaged food product, you have benefited from animal research. Invetigate alternatives or support those who do if that is a cause you believe in, but try to refrain from hypocrisy. While you're at it, do research. Be sure you understand what a group believes in and, perhaps more importantly, where it spends its money before you donate or volunteer.

5) Unless you really can't think of a single person on earth who wears makeup and whose drawn-out, painful death would bother you, don't knock cosmetic research either. Going blind would be bad enough, but that's not what prompted cosmetics to be included in the Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act. And if you really don't know anyone who wears makeup, get out of the house more and maybe love your fellow humans. I may choose not to wear it, but the world would be an emptier place without the majority who do.

6) If you still feel that testing shouldn't be done, but you have a pet of your own, you owe a debt of gratitude to lab animals. Where do you think your veterinarian's knowledge comes from, and do you believe that the heartworm pills, the flea and tick drops, the spay or neuter procedure that you provided for your pet was untested? They were tested in a lab, on lab animals.

7) If the container says "We don't test on animals" or "Product not tested on animals," there are a couple of possibilities. It could be considered an herbal supplement or natural remedy. In that case it is required to state that it has not been evaluated by the FDA, and is not intended to diagnose or treat any illness. You take your chances there, and that sort of item, one that really hasn't been tested, is hard to find. It could be that the company doesn't test on animals- they just use items that have already been extensively tested, so there is data to support their product on file. They aren't using a proprietary drug compound, just a mix of things that someone else tested before. It could also be that they outsource their testing and just keep their own hands clean, as it were.

The video is cute. From time to time a lab will have animals that were intended for use, but they won't be using them after all for whatever reason. Some lab animals have a tougher time adjusting to the different, outside world, but beagles are resilient and loyal and loving, so given a good home they will probably do well. I don't have any details on the dogs in this video, but they keep saying how now they are FREE. It may sound like these heroes have rescued them, stolen them away from their evil keepers. In reality, it's likely that the company that had them simply didn't need them. And companies are made up of people, many of whom probably have pets they love, so sending some dogs off to be adopted is a good choice to make.

ambassador_ahab: Do you really think it's ethical to do testing on humans, even if they're on death row?


Yes.

And the innocent part is bullshiat. We can fix the system now. Those people who have been proven innocent years later were found innocent due to advances in technology - mostly in DNA. Now that we have that you're not going to see as many of these 10 years from now. If they fix the system you won't see any.

That's right, any.

And who farking cares anyway? What do you do with your life after 15 - 20 years on death row? I'd rather be killed than live like that. And if my death can help some kids with cancer then that's even better...

I hadn't seen some.old.lady say

They came from a breeding facility which supplies dogs for the research folks.

This makes sense too. Either way, they were surplus and they will have a different life because of it. That's good for those dogs, but it in no way lessens the importance of other research dogs.

pwhp_67: ambassador_ahab: Have you ever been sick and needed medicine? Do you have kids? Have they ever needed medicine?



We have people on death row who have contributed NOTHING to society.

Test on them and let them go out having actually helped a little...

SoCalSurfer: pwhp_67: ambassador_ahab: Have you ever been sick and needed medicine? Do you have kids? Have they ever needed medicine?



We have people on death row who have contributed NOTHING to society.

Test on them and let them go out having actually helped a little...

THIS THIS THIS

If you're gonna die for crimes, might as well do something useful for society. Becoming a robot and saving the human resistance against the robots also counts

.

Well, I see the Third Reich is alive and well in America...

wanna know who else is disposable??? You.

Calmamity: ImThinkin: Interesting responses. I await my flames, but I assure you that I know what I'm talking about.

Feh. Anyone who flames you is an asshole.

I think the vast majority of people understand the heart wrenching conundrum of animal testing.

Why, thank you. I would hope they do, but I know that some don't want to think about it. It's easier to just say "Don't hurt puppies."

pwhp_67: We have people on death row who have contributed NOTHING to society.

Test on them and let them go out having actually helped a little...

and don't forget about the homeless!

ambassador_ahab: pwhp_67: We have people on death row who have contributed NOTHING to society.

Do you really think it's ethical to do testing on humans, even if they're on death row? Even though there are numerous proven cases of innocent people being executed over the years?

I mean, that was definitely the Nazis' mentality. They felt like the Jews had nothing positive to contribute to society. In fact, they saw them as parasites. So they used them as test subjects, and collected a lot of valuable data. To be fair, human test subjects would be far superior from animal test subjects. We could collect much more data, much more quickly. It would rapidly increase the speed of medical research.

Especially since that would create a HUGE incentive to put more people ON death row?

wyltoknow: Anyone else immediately think of Plague Dogs? Now there's a book/movie that'll test your sense of humanity.

YES.

Animal testing is medical fraud. LSD, aspirin, thalidomide. Guess which ones were approved or denied due to initial animal testing?

And for those who say they've benefitted from animal testing...you're still going to die.

Those are going to be some needy pups. Whoever takes them on are better people than I am.

A lot of the statistics we have on a human beings' ability to survive extreme conditions are derived from Nazi studies.

Lil Brudder!

Oh get over it Fark Peta.

hitchking: Animal testing sucks and should only be used where it is absolutely necessary. And in those cases there should strong regulations that ensure it's done to as few animals as possible in the most humane way (anesthesia, etc).

They seem to be pretty strict about that. I had a neighbor lose his graduate position and all lab privileges for 5 years because he continued some kind of testing on rats after he had run out of anesthesia.

ambassador_ahab: pwhp_67: We have people on death row who have contributed NOTHING to society.

Do you really think it's ethical to do testing on humans, even if they're on death row? Even though there are numerous proven cases of innocent people being executed over the years?

I mean, that was definitely the Nazis' mentality. They felt like the Jews had nothing positive to contribute to society. In fact, they saw them as parasites. So they used them as test subjects, and collected a lot of valuable data. To be fair, human test subjects would be far superior from animal test subjects. We could collect much more data, much more quickly. It would rapidly increase the speed of medical research.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the medical community has refused to use or even look at basically any of the data Nazi doctors collected with human experiments out of ethical concerns?

pwhp_67: ambassador_ahab: Do you really think it's ethical to do testing on humans, even if they're on death row?


Yes.

And the innocent part is bullshiat. We can fix the system now. Those people who have been proven innocent years later were found innocent due to advances in technology - mostly in DNA. Now that we have that you're not going to see as many of these 10 years from now. If they fix the system you won't see any.

That's right, any.

And who farking cares anyway? What do you do with your life after 15 - 20 years on death row? I'd rather be killed than live like that. And if my death can help some kids with cancer then that's even better...

But it couldn't. The folks running the studies wouldn't have your complete medical history (you'd have no incentive to give it, by the way). Oh, and have you ever drank booze regularly? If so, your liver tox information (precisely what dogs are used for) would be useless. Thanks for offering, though.

Can be applied to either side. I'll leave it up to your own interpretation.

That settles it. As a person involved in animal research, I'm going to do all I can to make sure the industry begins using pit bulls for canine research. Beagles are just too cute.

Pawn takes the King:

LOL

/i hate that ad
/dusty in here all of sudden

Own a beagle...so already saw this yesterday and I became a puddle of goo.

As much as I loathe the concept of animal testing...it does serve a purpose, and if it's done responsibly, I am OK with it. Beagles are a generally very healthy, amiable breed and so they, unfortunately, tend to be prime candidates for research. That being said...given the living conditions, the dogs do tend to be cared for well. It certainly doesn't do their researchers any good to have mistreated/abused animals with failing health to work on. So, they are, health-wise, kept in good standing.

But yeah...knowing beagles like I do, and seeing them afraid to get out of their cages..pretty much gets me choked up.

/Gonna go home and hug my Fonzi dog
//Maybe Mr. Bea wouldn't mind a four-footed, floppy-eared addition to the family...

SoCalSurfer: pwhp_67: ambassador_ahab: Have you ever been sick and needed medicine? Do you have kids? Have they ever needed medicine?



We have people on death row who have contributed NOTHING to society.

Test on them and let them go out having actually helped a little...

THIS THIS THIS

If you're gonna die for crimes, might as well do something useful for society. Becoming a robot and saving the human resistance against the robots also counts

NO NO NO

You cannot incentivize (sp?) the death penalty, and that's exactly what would happen. Hell, stories of kickbacks for placing sentencing teens to homes are common enough that they're a farking lawyer-show meme. It's even worse when we literally start putting a price on human life.

/Pro death penalty

Yes, animal testing is sad, but I agree that for the better welfare of humans it is necessary.

Sad, but in school we learned that Beagles are often used because they are small and have a friendly personality- so they are easy to work with.

Even sadder than animal testing- consider that there are plenty of other dogs who have never experienced sunlight or grass and are just being bred constantly for some human to make $700/puppy. Medical testing is a necessity for the betterment of humans lives- but there are plenty of other dogs being abused just so everyone can have a cute designer puppy.

If you care about animals- yes, be aware of animal testing, testing standards, rules, regulations, how they are checking on this stuff- but also be aware of where you are getting an animal from and where animals are going. What I mean is- did you buy a puppy for $200 off of Craiglist because you 'felt sorry' when you saw the dog's living conditions? Don't give money to a crappy "breeder" and allow them to keep making a living off of this- report them and adopt a dog from a legit rescue.

Secondly- spay or neuter. Unless you are extremely advance in your knowledge of the breed, sports they do, and whelping- and you are more than capable of bettering the breed and finding good home for all of the puppies- there is no reason to breed. Your kids don't need to see the "miracle of birth" (and if they do there are other ways they can see it) and dogs/cats don't have life-long dreams to have children like humans might- they simply feel an urge to mate.

Of course, if you *are* capable of keeping your dog under control and confined (safe from escaping to mate) and you don't want to spay/neuter because of health concerns (but will never allow your dog to reproduce)- that is fine with me. But don't leave your dog in the backyard or something where it could escape...