No, $500 for a single item that does the same thing as the six others that it replaced....
all media (both playback and creation), communications (web access, telephony,text messaging, real-time video and/or data conferencing), entertainment (games, reading), productivity (document creation, calculations, reference research)
the list goes on and on.

On a phone sized system, it was cramped, no, make that very cramped.

this is pretty good.

Englebert Slaptyback: On the flip side, tablets [to me] seem to be a subpar tool for content creation. Perhaps I'm missing something.

No, I think you get it. The iPad is great for consumption, browsing/email, and games, but ranges from sub-optimal to "blows" for creation.

One recurring iPad theme, as to why people prefer their iPad over a netbook/laptop, is that it is small/thin/portable, has great battery life, and has instant on/off. Now, whether or not the price justifies this is another different-flame-war, but I often see these listed. And, as an owner of an iPad, I really do like the instant on/off. Sure, my netbook can turn on in, oh, say 3 seconds, but those few seconds seem like an eternity compared to the iPad, and my netbook now sits largely unused.

However, as much as the Apple zealots want to deny it, the Kindle Fire will take a chunk out of the iPad's sales. Most users consume, and, for these users, the KF is "good enough" and "cheap", and I think this combination will take a large bite out of the iPad's sales.

Digital Communist: It is only a matter of time before Android platforms put Apple out of business. Android has better technology and it has an open architecture philosophy.

Apple products are technology for people who don't know anything about technology. In other words, unless you are trying to look cool at the local cafe, buy an android.

I have a rooted, overclocked (did it myself) Android phone, a Windows 7 PC (work on other peoples computers/side job) and an iPad2. I LOVE the iPad, the battery lasts forever and it is convenient to carry. I use it for web surfing, email, and reading books. I would consider myself a conservative and the opposite of a hippie or liberal. That said, it is a wonderful device as it suits MY needs. OBTW, it rarely leaves my house in case you think I am trying to keep up with the hip people.

I will gladly piss on Steve Jobs's grave if I'm ever in Palo Alto. I will then go and get drunk at Pigpen's (they're in the same cemetery).

valkore: So in other words, Apple isn't going anywhere. Apple's premise that "it just works" is what appeals to people who feel like traditional PCs are over their head.

Uh, at any hardcore technology conference I've been to there's Apple laptops all over the place. You can't tell me programmers feel traditional PCs are over their head?

LouDobbsAwaaaay: RentalMetard: I guess it's a better buy if you regularly beat the sh*t out of your laptop. I have a Dell and an HP that are both over five years old at this point, pretty heavily used, and they both work fine. And both of them combined ran up a price tag of a little over half of what a Macbook Pro costs.

I prefer to go the other way and buy a netbook. About $400, does what I need it to do for a travel-computer, and doesn't have the drawbacks of a tablet. Plus, if it breaks, it's only a $400 computer.

What are those drawbacks? You just lumped them all together, plus my iPad2 was the cheap 16GB wireless unit for $500, not exactly a lot more than your netbook. I bought an Acer Win7 netbook for my son, got the high end and added memory. I installed the full version of Win 7 and Office 2010. My iPad blows it away when it comes to video, browsing, and battery life. Does it work for what I bought it for, absolutely. This whole discussion that iPad's are junk is false, I bought one to use as a reader thinking it would not be used for more than that and I fell in love with it. I now use it more than my desktop.

LouDobbsAwaaaay: thomps: my boss replaced his laptop with an ipad with a bluetooth keyboard without much of a problem.

I know I can't get a response from you since this was posted several hours ago, but maybe someone else knows. How do you use an external keyboard with an iPad? Do you lean the iPad up against something so you can see the screen, or do you have to lay it flat on a table and stare down at it while you're typing?

It's called Bluetooth and a case.

MrCrunchyToes: The iPad is great for consumption, browsing/email, and games, but ranges from sub-optimal to "blows" for creation.

Which is why the Kindle Fire is actually a competitor despite its inferior capabilities. A lot of iPad users have a few sophisticated apps they can't live without, but a lot more are going to realize they don't use the full potential of the device and buy something much cheaper next time around.

/forgot to post this earlier

lol at all the apple hate, most people who are saying android will dominate were probably saying ipods wouldn't sell, ipads won't sell, it's a big ipod touch etc..

I thank all you haters for helping me make money on aapl stock over and over!

I am kind of a computer geek, and I can do whatever I want on a mac. I prefer os x and there are apps that do just about all of what I want, and if I need to I just fire up a copy of windows as a last resort. other than the price issue, how is that not the obvious way to go? people actually like windows more than os x? what if you want to run that one os x app? it can be done, but it's tricky. with mac, i spend my time doing what I want to do, not configuring shiat so I can do it. it's like my car, I want to spend my time driving it not working on it in my garage. That's why I pay a mechanic! Price is irrelevant to me, computing is like an addition to my brain, and apple is what I pick. even if I spend $3000 every 2 years on the best laptop, that's only $4 a day for awesome computing!

Because my mac can do ANYTHING i need, I haven't even found a reason to want to jailbreak my iphone. I have tried android phones and tablets whenever I get a chance, and the web browsing has always been crappy, scrolling laggy etc, and even if that wasn't the case I don't see a single reason I would want android, but that's mainly because I choose apple for my computer and it is the hub for my digital life and it's a good life.

Digital Communist: It is only a matter of time before Android platforms put Apple out of business. Android has better technology and it has an open architecture philosophy.

Apple products are technology for people who don't know anything about technology. In other words, unless you are trying to look cool at the local cafe, buy an android.

There will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be a shortage of stupid people. Ever.

Buttbone McGillicutty: RobertBruce: iThings are still toys.

HP Slate. Win 7. Runs business apps.

To be fair, I turned off a bunch of unnecessary services and features to get better speed.

I love my HP Touchpad.

the content creation and "doing real office work" always come up as why ipads are useless compared to netbooks, but it's a new user interface people have to be trained in and developers need to figure out how do do common mouse stuff with touch, but it's come far already and it's just getting started. imovie on ipad, some coding program I read about recently, Probably tough to do 3d cad work or massive data entry for now, but as the whole touch UI gets more delevoped and siri can do more and more I see that issue going away.

also, when you really need to do intense mouse stuff, you should probably be using something like an imac, not using a netbook. I think imac and ipad is an awesome combo. but really, what are people wanting to do on their ipads that they could do better on their $400 pos netbook?

mcreadyblue: I love my HP Touchpad.

Yup. Got it for cheaper than an ipod touch. Thought I'd convert it to android but I'm happy the way it is.

vegasj: Other than any CAD type of program what can't you to on the iPad you can on a laptop?

Software development, for one. (OK, well, technically, while you could do software development on an iPad, I certainly wouldn't want to do any on one -- and, yes, I do have an iPad, and so I know what it would be like.)

Running virtual machines is another. Yes, this is something of a rare case, but it is a valid use, and is one of the reasons why I still have a laptop.

Callous:The app is called writepad and it's available on the android market for the same $4.99.

Why do iPhans always assume that anything cool is exclusive to iProducts?

I think a lot of people like the app store more than the android market, apple filtering out crap is a plus to them. They may trust apple with their credit card info more as well since they have proved themselves with the itunes store. I haven't seen anything on android that even makes me want to jailbreak my iphone, let alone not available on iphone even if you jailbreak.

MrCrunchyToes: vegasj: Other than any CAD type of program what can't you to on the iPad you can on a laptop?

Software development, for one. (OK, well, technically, while you could do software development on an iPad, I certainly wouldn't want to do any on one -- and, yes, I do have an iPad, and so I know what it would be like.)

Running virtual machines is another. Yes, this is something of a rare case, but it is a valid use, and is one of the reasons why I still have a laptop.

any pro or developer would clearly not have an ipad as their only machine, and depending on your travel habits and needs the ipad/imac combo might do just fine-tweak a little code on the go if you have an idea, otherwise the imac/macbook air setup would be more for you, or a heavy laptop if you really want max horsepower with you at all times. insert pc equivelents above if that's your cup of tea. I personally couldn't imagine doing any serious project work with a monitor smaller than 24 inches, and i'd preferably have 2 of them :D

ComicBookGuy: I will gladly piss on Steve Jobs's grave if I'm ever in Palo Alto. I will then go and get drunk at Pigpen's (they're in the same cemetery).

While you're there, go across the street and say hi to my old high school. Then take a short walk down the road to Xerox PARC and see where the mouse, GUI, ethernet, OOP, and handheld computers were invented.

vegasj: CtrlAltDestroy: It doesn't take a very expensive laptop to go over the 64gb that an ipad is capable of storing. Even a $400 laptop is more functional than an ipad and has a full OS and can install just about any software you want on it.

But at what price? Lugging around a backpack and a X lbs laptop? Other than any CAD type of program what can't you to on the iPad you can on a laptop?

Don't you even try to handwave CAD. Some people need to use it as part of everyday work. Just because there's a magical position with some company that lets someone only use an ipad doesn't mean that everyone else will fit the same mold. Most wont.

MS Word
MS Excel
MS Access
MS Powerpoint
Various PLC software (RSLogix, etc)
CAD (as pointed out)
Photo editing/Photoshop (full versions)
Sound editing software (full versions)
Video editing software (full versions)
Maximo
ValveLink
Online based timesheet software
Intranet based file storage
Dreamweaver (full version)

I'm a tradesman. These were ones I thought of off the top of my head. I'm sure people who work in an office environment would have more to add. This is only thinking about programs used in a professional atmosphere. This doesn't count the myriad of personal use programs that an ipad can't run.

And if the weight difference between a laptop and a ipad is enough to break you then you're just sad. Just because it's lighter doesn't mean it's better. What's the use of carrying around a slab of technology if it doesn't do what you need it to?

Tablets are consumption devices. The are terrible creation devices. Some people actually make things from scratch at work.

nope, and that doesn't tempt me in the least, i'm just fine with typing or talking to siri whenever i don't feel like typing.

thinking about it, the only think i've thought would be cool that i'd have to jailbreak for is having my phone listen at all times and respond to a whistle if I couldn't find it in the same room i'm in, but not worth the hassle as that rarely happens.

stuffer: any pro or developer would clearly not have an ipad as their only machine, and depending on your travel habits and needs the ipad/imac combo might do just fine-tweak a little code on the go if you have an idea, otherwise the imac/macbook air setup would be more for you, or a heavy laptop if you really want max horsepower with you at all times. insert pc equivelents above if that's your cup of tea. I personally couldn't imagine doing any serious project work with a monitor smaller than 24 inches, and i'd preferably have 2 of them :D

That's kinda the point. People like to praise the ipad as some magical do-all device. People like vegasj. They're not. They're good for looking at pictures and files. They fall short in almost ever other respect. Phrases like,

"Other than any CAD type of program what can't you to on the iPad you can on a laptop?"

are absolutely idiotic.

stuffer: I think a lot of people like the app store more than the android market, apple filtering out crap is a plus to them. They may trust apple with their credit card info more as well since they have proved themselves with the itunes store. I haven't seen anything on android that even makes me want to jailbreak my iphone, let alone not available on iphone even if you jailbreak.

What works for you works for you. For me though I like Android over iphones for these reasons.

Widgets, custom roms, flash support, removable/expandable storage and battery, choices in hardware, install apps note from the official market, anything but itunes, custom visual themes, etc. I also don't like that apple keeps a remote "kill switch" over every idevice.

CtrlAltDestroy: That's kinda the point. People like to praise the ipad as some magical do-all device. People like vegasj. They're not. They're good for looking at pictures and files. They fall short in almost ever other respect. Phrases like,

"Other than any CAD type of program what can't you to on the iPad you can on a laptop?"

are absolutely idiotic.

I think we sortof agree, i don't think it's the magical do all device best for everything. I meant like how excel is on the ipad, and while you wouldn't create a whole spreadsheet project most likely, it's good for on the go to show one off or make small changes in a business setting, and with better UI or siri control in the future, data entry might not be a big deal, especially with creative uses of the camera. and thinking about it, if I want to make a cad model of some object in real life, I could just take a couple pics from different angles and have the ipad do it for me. then click print and my 3d printer would print a copy of it. 3d printing for the masses will be easy with the ipad and the right app.

to say that it's only good for looking at picts and files or "consumption only" is an understatement, normal people can shoot hd video and edit a quick project and upload it to youtube and such. they can make a simple spreadsheet to deal with their finances even if it's their only computer, you can take photosynth and make a panorama! that was something hardly anyone knew how to do on computers a few years ago. you can create lots of content on an ipad. and as the peripheral's go nuts with bluetooth 4.0 it will do things computers can't, like track your heartbeat all day long and graph it, monitor your blood sugar level etc.

I don't see how asking what you can't do on an ipad is idiotic. I bet much of what you can't do is probably only a developer and an app away. How efficiently you can do it is another matter.

also, just watched ric talk about being famous fark, funny shiat ric fark interview (new window)

Digital Communist: Avoiding the command line is Apple products are technology for people who don't know anything about technology. In other words, unless you are trying to look cool at the local cafe, buy an android ditch the mouse and aways launch a terminal with a "$" prompt.

FIFY, ace.

Sorry, if it doesn't have AWK, SED, VIM and Perl, it is just a toy.
(Which is why I love my Macbook Pro)

Callous: MrEricSir: At work, we have a Xoom tablet. It's really unimpressive, especially for the price tag ($400!!)

It's twice as thick as an iPad 2, most of the software is sluggish and doesn't have a consistent look and feel. Worst part is, nobody in the office was able to find a way to make it check two GMail accounts. Seeing as how everyone in the office has more than one GMail account, that's a deal breaker.

/Professional Linux application developer
//Run all 3 major platforms at home

Mine currently is checking 3 Gmail accounts. Multitasks just fine and with the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse it's handier than a net book. Oh and it runs flash.

You add Gmail accounts to your Xoom just like every other android device, go to settings>accounts>add account. Rinse, repeat

4G LTE and an SD slot rocks too.

This was posted from my Xoom.

Which brand/model of rodent are you using with the Xoom? I have the standard Moto BT KB but I heard someone mention a mouse will work simultaneously.

Arklop: I have no experience with other tablet makers, but if they compare anything like PC laptops, I'll buy Apple and nothing else.

I have owned several PC laptops in my lifetime...Compaq, HP, Dell, etc...and not one of them lasted longer than 2, maybe 2 1/2 years before some major hardware breakdown occurred (usually the power supply.)

In contrast, I have owned one MacBook Pro, purchased in August of 2006. I've dropped it, spilled water on it, broken small pieces off of the frame, even caused the power adapter cable to literally burn itself into a brown, charred, melted mess...and the computer is still running great (using it right now to type this.) It's the best computer I've ever owned, no contest.

You sound clumsy.

Igor Jakovsky: I had the opportunity to play with an Ipad1 and an Acer Iconia last weekend at a friends house. I actually thought my tweaked HP Touchpad out performed both of them. The Ipad2 on the other hand...

/typing this on said Touchpad

Another firesale buyer?

/typing from my $149 Touchpad.

Mr. Lepage: Arklop: I have no experience with other tablet makers, but if they compare anything like PC laptops, I'll buy Apple and nothing else.

I have owned several PC laptops in my lifetime...Compaq, HP, Dell, etc...and not one of them lasted longer than 2, maybe 2 1/2 years before some major hardware breakdown occurred (usually the power supply.)

In contrast, I have owned one MacBook Pro, purchased in August of 2006. I've dropped it, spilled water on it, broken small pieces off of the frame, even caused the power adapter cable to literally burn itself into a brown, charred, melted mess...and the computer is still running great (using it right now to type this.) It's the best computer I've ever owned, no contest.

You sound clumsy.


With enough source material, I can sound like anything you can imagine ;-D

Igor Jakovsky: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Igor Jakovsky: valkore: Igor Jakovsky: I had the opportunity to play with an Ipad1 and an Acer Iconia last weekend at a friends house. I actually thought my tweaked HP Touchpad out performed both of them.

I was lucky enough to get one of the 32GB Touchpads for $150. So what are functionality are you comparing? Watching Youtube, surfing the Web, and listening to MP3's? Being serious... Perhaps I am missing out on something revolutionary with these devices.

it was mainly tearing and laggy scrolling. Also switching between web pages and loading seemed slower. The Ipad and Acer have many more apps to be sure. But HP still has enough that I haven't really missed anything.

I had one of the 32gb Touchpads. After rooting and overclocking, it was a nice tablet. I still sold the thing. No Netflix app pretty much killed it for me.

They have a remote access app that lets you take control of your pc on the tablet. Supposedly you can use it to stream netflix via virtual pc...I haven't tried it yet but the internets say it works well.

http://www.splashtop.com/remote/hptouchpad

Yes! Vim for the win!

If you type in anything but VI/VIM you might as well put on a skirt and dance for us all nancy boys.

VI/VIM for 15 years +. No MSFT for the same time. Linux then Macs.

// I hate typing in this window btw. Keep wanting to hit the ESC key, and other VI commands. It is like an addiction.

CtrlAltDestroy: vegasj: CtrlAltDestroy: It doesn't take a very expensive laptop to go over the 64gb that an ipad is capable of storing. Even a $400 laptop is more functional than an ipad and has a full OS and can install just about any software you want on it.

But at what price? Lugging around a backpack and a X lbs laptop? Other than any CAD type of program what can't you to on the iPad you can on a laptop?

Don't you even try to handwave CAD. Some people need to use it as part of everyday work. Just because there's a magical position with some company that lets someone only use an ipad doesn't mean that everyone else will fit the same mold. Most wont.

MS Word
MS Excel
MS Access
MS Powerpoint
Various PLC software (RSLogix, etc)
CAD (as pointed out)
Photo editing/Photoshop (full versions)
Sound editing software (full versions)
Video editing software (full versions)
Maximo
ValveLink
Online based timesheet software
Intranet based file storage
Dreamweaver (full version)

I'm a tradesman. These were ones I thought of off the top of my head. I'm sure people who work in an office environment would have more to add. This is only thinking about programs used in a professional atmosphere. This doesn't count the myriad of personal use programs that an ipad can't run.

And if the weight difference between a laptop and a ipad is enough to break you then you're just sad. Just because it's lighter doesn't mean it's better. What's the use of carrying around a slab of technology if it doesn't do what you need it to?

Tablets are consumption devices. The are terrible creation devices. Some people actually make things from scratch at work.

I use LogMeIn and can do all of that if it is on my desktop.

There sure are a lot of unemployed people in this thread, unable to afford top class hardware from Apple.

LivefromGA: CtrlAltDestroy: vegasj: CtrlAltDestroy: It doesn't take a very expensive laptop to go over the 64gb that an ipad is capable of storing. Even a $400 laptop is more functional than an ipad and has a full OS and can install just about any software you want on it.

But at what price? Lugging around a backpack and a X lbs laptop? Other than any CAD type of program what can't you to on the iPad you can on a laptop?

Don't you even try to handwave CAD. Some people need to use it as part of everyday work. Just because there's a magical position with some company that lets someone only use an ipad doesn't mean that everyone else will fit the same mold. Most wont.

MS Word
MS Excel
MS Access
MS Powerpoint
Various PLC software (RSLogix, etc)
CAD (as pointed out)
Photo editing/Photoshop (full versions)
Sound editing software (full versions)
Video editing software (full versions)
Maximo
ValveLink
Online based timesheet software
Intranet based file storage
Dreamweaver (full version)

I'm a tradesman. These were ones I thought of off the top of my head. I'm sure people who work in an office environment would have more to add. This is only thinking about programs used in a professional atmosphere. This doesn't count the myriad of personal use programs that an ipad can't run.

And if the weight difference between a laptop and a ipad is enough to break you then you're just sad. Just because it's lighter doesn't mean it's better. What's the use of carrying around a slab of technology if it doesn't do what you need it to?

Tablets are consumption devices. The are terrible creation devices. Some people actually make things from scratch at work.

I use LogMeIn and can do all of that if it is on my desktop.

I forgot to mention, I can do all of that from my iPad if it is on my desktop, whether it is my work or home computer.

CtrlAltDestroy: MS Word
MS Excel
MS Access
MS Powerpoint

What's wrong with iWork for the iPad?

Ishkur: I'm not getting a tablet until I can multi-task (6-8 apps open and visible at once) with it

Yes, yes, that's where ten inch screens really shine.

vegasj: CtrlAltDestroy: MS Word
MS Excel
MS Access
MS Powerpoint

What's wrong with iWork for the iPad?

Or Quick Office, Documents to Go or any of the half dozen other MS Office compatible editing apps. Hell, by Kindle Fire even has two different apps for creating and editing Office docs that I got free from Amazon's Android app store.

Arklop: Mr. Lepage:
You sound clumsy.


With enough source material, I can sound like anything you can imagine ;-D

Go on...

My question is: "Why?" You're locked in to what apps can be installed (unless you modify the firmware, thus voiding your warranty), and you're summarily locked into the vendor (Apple's App Store is the only portal through which you can purchase apps to be installed, which is a monopoly that facilitates price-fixing and eliminates healthy competition and harms the consumer by not allowing for independent innovation which could provide greater efficiency that would lower cost and thous allow for a lower end-user price), the operating system is inflexible, it's hardware is barely even mediocre, any expansion upon the prior is cost-prohibitive and bulky while not adding much functionality, and as a final insult to the potential buyer it is unreasonably expensive for what is provided.

Further, this technology has been around since 2002 and allowed for end-user customization such as a choice of operating system and thus a choice of what hardware (both built-in and peripheral) could be implemented as well as what software could be installed, and it actually cost less even though computer component prices have fallen sharply in the interim years so even when inflation is taken into account there is no reason for this tablet computing device to be as expensive as it is.

thomps: Britney Spear's Speculum: Our school gave us iPads after telling us that we needed laptops to go to school. They are pretty worthless at that point.

it depends on what you need a laptop for. my boss replaced his laptop with an ipad with a bluetooth keyboard without much of a problem. i can't do it because i actually need to manipulate excel sheets and presentations. if all you are doing is consuming media or light word processing, an ipad is a great replacement.

I can do that with the Samsung Saga that I bought years ago for $75. It's less expensive, has a microSDHC card slot, a built-in physical keyboard as well as handwriting recognition from the touch-screen in the native operating system, has a WiFi reciever that has actually beaten out Apple laptops (including netbooks) in regards to reliable connectivity when attempting to connect to the same access point as said laptops at the same time, has capabilities to connect to both CDMA and GSM networks in either CDMA-only mode, GSM-only mode or CDMA as the primary mode while automatically switch to GSM when CDMA is not available, allows me to install any app developed for Windows Mobile 6.5- that I desire without the need of a centralized vendor so I can choose from whom I purchase them allowing me to compare prices and customer service, and is smaller than an iPhone so it can easily fit in my pocket while the screen is still a decent size. And it can run Flash (v8-).

My phone that is a few years old and cost me only $75 is more useful than an iPad2.