I rememberSonolumineszenz! (new window)

Meh.

Give me $10 worth of Taco Bell burritos and in about 8-10 hours I'll generate something 1000000 times denser.

Sid_6.7: The per unit cost might come out to $20, but most people can't manufacture xenon-filled sealed glass tubes at home.

Factor in the overhead for the equipment required and the price is probably well above $20.

Probably.

Then again, light bulbs aren't exactly all that expensive to buy, either...

So it`s possible to get dense plasma and a new form of matter in a test tube but thos guys who claimed cold fusion were whackos?

right, got it.

dready zim: So it`s possible to get dense plasma and a new form of matter in a test tube but those guys who claimed they produced cold fusion were whackos?

right, got it.

FTFM

That's some really dicey reasoning on why it should be considered a new state of matter. Solids go through phase transitions without magically becoming non-solids all the time, if they've got a gaseous phase that responds to magnetic and electric fields it falls well within the defined parameters of the plasma state.

It is fairly cool that they managed to spark a cascade that close to atmospheric pressure, though. Perhaps not useful, but cool nonetheless.

Don't worry, they'll find a way to make practical applications prohibitively expensive.

Fusion reactors currently in use don't generate high-density plasma for a reason. They actually want to control the reaction.

Sid_6.7: The per unit cost might come out to $20, but most people can't manufacture xenon-filled sealed glass tubes at home.

Factor in the overhead for the equipment required and the price is probably well above $20.

I agree with you, but I think the hardest part for most people will be sealing the tube for it. Glass blowing is rapidly becoming a lost art, mostly because it's not that easy to do correctly. I've probably gone through the equivalent of $1k worth of glass (I get it for free.) just to learn how to do it properly. Half the time I still mess up.

dready zim: So it`s possible to get dense plasma and a new form of matter in a test tube but thos guys who claimed cold fusion were whackos?

right, got it.

It was a sealed tube, not a test tube. Both ends are closed. I presume that's to keep the xenon in the tube without a mix of nitrogen and oxygen displacing it.

/This sounds like a fun saturday project.

RogueVortex: /This sounds like a fun saturday project.

For our house, it's a Sunday project. I guess instead of church, we believe in blowing things up? Last month was making grape ice with wild grapes from the backyard. :)

But yeah... I know what I'll be trying to do tomorrow.

So where is my Mr Fusion at?

/this should be a major breakthrough, so why doesn't the BBC dialog written seem more excited about it?
//what would be the collection method for the energy and how could it be changed into AC power?
///what practical uses will this method be used for, if it turns out to be a workable source of fusion energy?

Not to mention the also cool supercavitation.

And for less than a cup of coffee, you can support top of the line physicists doint the real thing

Aidan: RogueVortex: /This sounds like a fun saturday project.

For our house, it's a Sunday project. I guess instead of church, we believe in blowing things up? Last month was making grape ice with wild grapes from the backyard. :)

But yeah... I know what I'll be trying to do tomorrow.

Well.....not so much blowing stuff up, but doing randomly interesting things just for the giggles. I think that the more fun and interesting things I do, the more my undergraduate research students get involved in science and develop a curiosity and love for it.

Do you know how to make the glass tubes? If you need pointers, EIP.

Or, you can just use a grape

Grape Microwave Plasma - Youtube (new window)

I want to try sonoluminescence in molten lithium hydride.

Shake-Light... because the shakeweight wasn't bad enough.

wildcardjack: I want to try sonoluminescence in molten lithium hydride.

Sorry, lithium (like any other strong reducing agent) is a drug precursor. That's a door-rammin'.

Now where are the plasma rifles?

verbaltoxin: Now where are the plasma rifles?

Hey, just what you see, pal.

RogueVortex: Aidan: RogueVortex: /This sounds like a fun saturday project.

For our house, it's a Sunday project. I guess instead of church, we believe in blowing things up? Last month was making grape ice with wild grapes from the backyard. :)

But yeah... I know what I'll be trying to do tomorrow.

Well.....not so much blowing stuff up, but doing randomly interesting things just for the giggles. I think that the more fun and interesting things I do, the more my undergraduate research students get involved in science and develop a curiosity and love for it.

Do you know how to make the glass tubes? If you need pointers, EIP.

Not this weekend (this weekend is the magical "fix the dryer" project!), but I'll put you in my rolodex of interesting people who know things I want to know. :)

dready zim: So it`s possible to get dense plasma and a new form of matter in a test tube but those guys who claimed they produced cold fusion were whackos?

right, got it.

What they claimed though has no bearing on reality, they fudged their data and numerous people tried unsuccessfully to repeat their results. The experiment can't be repeated because the people who claimed they produced cold fusion were making shiat up.

Science is in may ways the opposite of politics. Where politics runs off of and feeds on lies, science feeds on the truth. It has no room for people to lie about their results.

For me, the real question here isn't "Can we start fusion in these bubbles?" That seems doomed to failure.

No. The real question here, is: How do we go about inducing this phase transition in the plasma of a fusion reactor?

Further, if containment is an issue, may I suggest lining the fusion toroid with this new meta-material to provide better control and confinement of the magnetic fields restraining the plasma?

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-cloaking-magnetic-fields-antimagn e t-device.html

It's awesome that you can make plasma that easily.

What I'm especially curious about is what practical applications this has - particularly if it can be used in fusion reactors, but even if not, the ability to produce a 10000 degree blast - and plasma - with $20 of materials sounds like it's bound to lead to multiple interesting developments.

dready zim: dready zim: So it`s possible to get dense plasma and a new form of matter in a test tube but those guys who claimed they produced cold fusion were whackos?

right, got it.

FTFM

... What are you, one of those idiots who thinks science is determined by majority rule? The guys who claimed they could produce cold fusion were actively lying.

trerro: It's awesome that you can make plasma that easily.

What I'm especially curious about is what practical applications this has - particularly if it can be used in fusion reactors, but even if not, the ability to produce a 10000 degree blast - and plasma - with $20 of materials sounds like it's bound to lead to multiple interesting developments.

Long story short, it's not like that. You're putting a fair amount of power in in order to get those sonoluminescent bubbles out.

Two issues with the headline:

First, the pound hasn't been 2x the value of the dollar for a while now. Right now it's something like 1.57, so going forward Fark headlines should probably use 1.5x instead of 2x. That means they did this with something like $15 in materials.

Second, the tricky part of nuclear fusion is extracting energy from the reaction. These pump a bunch of energy into their system in order to get what they're calling plasma. It's cool for demonstrating principles and impressing undergraduates, but it's not a useful energy generation technique.

trerro: It's awesome that you can make plasma that easily.

umm, what do you think goes on in a simple florescent light?
// not as hot

New state of matter? Hardly, it's been known for well over 10 years because I was told about plasma being the 4th state at least that long ago. I work on machines that do this process to 'clean' wafers in the semiconductor industry.

All it is is a gaseous form of the element that is excited until it starts ripping electron off itself, there are multiple videos of this on youtube as an earlier poster showed, (involving microwaves) and while they are probably not as pure or dense, it's the same thing.

me texan: Or, you could just get a pistol shrimp. (new window)

Zabriana_Maloletka: New state of matter? Hardly, it's been known for well over 10 years because I was told about plasma being the 4th state at least that long ago. I work on machines that do this process to 'clean' wafers in the semiconductor industry.

All it is is a gaseous form of the element that is excited until it starts ripping electron off itself, there are multiple videos of this on youtube as an earlier poster showed, (involving microwaves) and while they are probably not as pure or dense, it's the same thing.

States of matter are much more numerous and complex than just the four states most people know about. In fact it is kind of misleading that science education pushes the idea that there 3 or 4 states when things like glass, liquid crystals, Superfluids, Bose-Einstein condensates, etc. are also separate states of matter. So it very well possible a particularly dense plasma in this case has a different phase change and thus counts as a separate state of matter. Just don't expect to hear about it in science class.

Fusorfodder: Or, you can just use a grape

Grape Microwave Plasma - Youtube (new window)

Did this accidentally with blueberries once. It's even freakier if you're not expecting it.

Ivo Shandor: verbaltoxin: Now where are the plasma rifles?

Hey, just what you see, pal.

Came for this, 40 watt range, etc.

T-Servo: Fusorfodder: Or, you can just use a grape

Grape Microwave Plasma - Youtube (new window)

Did this accidentally with blueberries once. It's even freakier if you're not expecting it.

Will I destroy my microwave if I do this?

pivazena: T-Servo: Fusorfodder: Or, you can just use a grape

Grape Microwave Plasma - Youtube (new window)

Did this accidentally with blueberries once. It's even freakier if you're not expecting it.

Will I destroy my microwave if I do this?

It can f*ck things up pretty badly, depending on your wattage and how well it's contained. My wife tried defrosting a plate of frozen blueberries, so they weren't even prepared properly, but it still created plasma arcs and set the paper towel on fire.

Jim_Callahan 2011-11-26 07:26:45 AM

That's some really dicey reasoning on why it should be considered a new state of matter. Solids go through phase transitions without magically becoming non-solids all the time, if they've got a gaseous phase that responds to magnetic and electric fields it falls well within the defined parameters of the plasma state.

It is fairly cool that they managed to spark a cascade that close to atmospheric pressure, though. Perhaps not useful, but cool nonetheless.


Collapsing bubbles are not at all close to atmospheric pressure. Instantaneous pressures at collapse can reach hundreds of atmospheres (admittedly in a very small volume). That's why cavitation will put holes in stainless steel pump impellers so rapidly.

HairBolus:

trerro: It's awesome that you can make plasma that easily.

umm, what do you think goes on in a simple florescent light?
// not as hot

Or just scuff your feet on a carpet on a dry day and touch a doorknob.

They need to quit wasting all the xenon! We need that shiat for medical purposes and there's barely any in the atmosphere. Also the waste of helium this country perpetrates should be criminal! Do people think these rare gases just pour up out of the ground endlessly for their wanton use?

It's the periodic table, not the all-you-can-eat buffet table!

/Yeah, I know, awful setup on that one. Gimme a break, I'm tired and supposed to be asleep already.
//Actually, I could use a little XenOx right now. It's relaxing. Also good for people with sleep apnea because it prevents cell death after oxygen starvation.

Gwyrddu: Zabriana_Maloletka: New state of matter? Hardly, it's been known for well over 10 years because I was told about plasma being the 4th state at least that long ago. I work on machines that do this process to 'clean' wafers in the semiconductor industry.

All it is is a gaseous form of the element that is excited until it starts ripping electron off itself, there are multiple videos of this on youtube as an earlier poster showed, (involving microwaves) and while they are probably not as pure or dense, it's the same thing.

States of matter are much more numerous and complex than just the four states most people know about. In fact it is kind of misleading that science education pushes the idea that there 3 or 4 states when things like glass, liquid crystals, Superfluids, Bose-Einstein condensates, etc. are also separate states of matter. So it very well possible a particularly dense plasma in this case has a different phase change and thus counts as a separate state of matter. Just don't expect to hear about it in science class.

And, hello! What about farking anti-matter! Isn't that a form of matter?!

And here is some motherfarking superfluid: Link (new window) thanks for reminding me about that shiat.

Here is some shiat about the Bose-Einstein condensate, thanks, had never heard of that one before! Link (new window)

Stinkyy: And, hello! What about farking anti-matter! Isn't that a form of matter?!

Anti-matter doesn't count, it's not a separate state of matter because its existence is not based on how particles are organized, rather it is made of different particles than matter. Instead of electrons it has positrons, instead of protons it has anti-protons. Basically the particles have the same mass but opposite charge as matter, and they annihilate themselves if they come on contact with matter (along with the matter it touched). Anti-matter can exist in any state that matter can exist in, solid, liquid, superliquid, etc, since that is just dependent on the arrangement and interactions of the particles, which will be pretty much the same for anti-matter as it is for matter.

Thanks for the links though.

LavenderWolf: dready zim: dready zim: So it`s possible to get dense plasma and a new form of matter in a test tube but those guys who claimed they produced cold fusion were whackos?

right, got it.

FTFM

... What are you, one of those idiots who thinks science is determined by majority rule?

No, I am not an alarmist, religious nut or gypsy.