It's amazing how even Moody's is willing to admit that the Bush tax cuts are a bad idea and need to expire.

Which American?

You know. Jerry. Jerry the American. Has a hat.

Plinky: You know. Jerry. Jerry the American. Has a hat.

He the guy with the hair?

We were then transferred to a better credit agency where our condition was upgraded to "OK."

AMERICA, fark YEAH!

WTF? Congress doesn't know you can pay for a credit rating? Send them a couple of million and you are triple A

They should grade on a curve.

These "ratings firms" need to be obliterated in the most obliterating way possible. SEAL teams, Rangers, nookular weapons, the whole bit. They are a BIG part of the problem. Also, they are not agencies of any kind.

/Calling them agencies gives them a false patina of official gravitas.
//Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
///C'mon Obama! Sick'em!

sirrerun: Which American?

Grover Norquist.

2wolves: Gosling: sirrerun: Which American?

Grover Norquist.

Still sounds like the name of a bad muppet knock-off.

I'm thinking more of a muppet inspired gay sex act, like anal fisting a hairy guy.

GAT_00: So, basically, we're fine unless Republicans stamp their feet and cry like a pack of little kids because they were forced to do something they knew was going to happen if they couldn't negotiate like adults.

There's still a year or so to go for their strategy (of nuking everything to make the Democrats look bad) to prove successful.

These agencies should have been shuttered 3 years ago for their central role in farking the economy in the ass and their execs jailed. Why are we listening to companies that rate underwater empty consist in Vegas as AAA but not the US govt? The bond market, their supposed customers, sure as hell don't.

2wolves: So "The Market" is deciding. The pseudo-conservatives should have no problem.

You really think Moody's represents "the market"? These are the same guys that gave all that mad mortgage debt positive ratings.

GAT_00: So, basically, we're fine unless Republicans stamp their feet and cry like a pack of little kids because they were forced to do something they knew was going to happen if they couldn't negotiate like adults.

In other words, we're farked.

SharkTrager: 2wolves: So "The Market" is deciding. The pseudo-conservatives should have no problem.

You really think Moody's represents "the market"? These are the same guys that gave all that mad mortgage debt positive ratings.

And when called to the carpet said "well that was just our opinion, no one should make investment decisions based on what we say". So what purpose do they actually serve then?

And this would be the same Brains Trust which rated billions in toxic CDOs as AAA thereby farking us good and hard?

2wolves: Gosling: sirrerun: Which American?

Grover Norquist.

Still sounds like the name of a bad muppet knock-off.

They both have heads filled with foam rubber and only speak when there's an arm shoved up their ass to the elbow.

Hagbardr: 2wolves: Gosling: sirrerun: Which American?

Grover Norquist.

Still sounds like the name of a bad muppet knock-off.

They both have heads filled with foam rubber and only speak when there's an arm shoved up their ass to the elbow.

Grover Norquist and Danny the Tourette's Guy: separated at birth?

HMS_Blinkin: It's amazing how even Moody's is willing to admit that the Bush tax cuts are a bad idea and need to expire.

It's amazing that capitalism can, if left unregulated, topple the govenrment of the richest nation on earth. It's like Plato's republic and Smith's The Wealth of Nations had a baby, and it is called American History. :(

The only thing Moody's downgrades is their own credibility when they comment on the US credit rating. US bond prices fell the last time they mentioned it (ie it got cheaper for the govt to borrow, more people bought t-bills). It's the least risky security in the world and there' no apparent alternative for the foreseeable future.

Moody's is bringing itself more credibility by being the brave one to point out the reality evident to the outside world, America looks like an empire in free-fall, unable to address the need for real fiscal austerity and lacking any more outs.

cruci fiction: These agencies should have been shuttered 3 years ago for their central role in farking the economy in the ass and their execs jailed. Why are we listening to companies that rate underwater empty consist in Vegas as AAA but not the US govt? The bond market, their supposed customers, sure as hell don't.

Freedom includes the freedom to be stupid.

Suede head: And this would be the same Brains Trust which rated billions in toxic CDOs as AAA thereby farking us good and hard?

Same ones. I wouldn't trust them to give me correct change for a dollar.

A lot of people there and at Goldman should looking at the world from behind bars. Instead, they'll get 7-figure bonuses.

jst3p: SharkTrager: 2wolves: So "The Market" is deciding. The pseudo-conservatives should have no problem.

You really think Moody's represents "the market"? These are the same guys that gave all that mad mortgage debt positive ratings.



That's like, just our opinion, man.

Actually, "the Market" is ignoring Moody's the same way it ignored the S&P downgrade:



The 10-Year US Treasury Bond rate.

Is this the same Moodys that couldn't rate a CDO worth a damn, or even notice that CDO's contained bad slices of other CDO's and then rated these new CDO's as good despite being made up of bad slices.

Yeah, I'd think twice about trusting them. Their blackbox ratings models could very well be empty.

minitrue noram: Moody's is bringing itself more credibility by being the brave one to point out the reality evident to the outside world, America looks like an empire in free-fall, unable to address the need for real fiscal austerity and lacking any more outs.

Yeah, not really. They're pointing out that our leaders are children, uninterested in actual governance. Fixing our budget is pretty straightforward in reality.

LedZeppelinRule: minitrue noram: Moody's is bringing itself more credibility by being the brave one to point out the reality evident to the outside world, America looks like an empire in free-fall, unable to address the need for real fiscal austerity and lacking any more outs.

Yeah, not really. They're pointing out that our leaders are children, uninterested in actual governance. Fixing our budget is pretty straightforward in reality.

If it were straightforward in reality, it would already have been done. It's straightforward in theory, but unfortunately reality brings in complications that one side or the other doesn't want to deal with, and sometimes neither side wants to deal with it at all. This isn't to say that there isn't a lot of tantrum-throwing and refusal to compromise taking place; there is. But to blame everything on childishness in Congress is oversimplifying things.

*psssst*

Hey, Mack, ya wanna swap some default credits? They're rated triple A...

///Doesn't sound so cool now, does it guys.

One more of the big three downgrades us and it's game over. We'll be in Japan-style economic trouble, a death spiral of debt.

/as if we're not in one now
//it will just speed up our current meltdown

jst3p: SharkTrager: 2wolves: So "The Market" is deciding. The pseudo-conservatives should have no problem.

You really think Moody's represents "the market"? These are the same guys that gave all that mad mortgage debt positive ratings.

And when called to the carpet said "well that was just our opinion, no one should make investment decisions based on what we say". So what purpose do they actually serve then?

Providing an opinion that you can use if you want, along with alongside information you may have, like any prudent investor.

Bennie Crabtree: HMS_Blinkin: It's amazing how even Moody's is willing to admit that the Bush tax cuts are a bad idea and need to expire.

It's amazing that capitalism can, if left unregulated, topple the govenrment of the richest nation on earth. It's like Plato's republic and Smith's The Wealth of Nations had a baby, and it is called American History. :(

This is what OWS supporters actually believe.

Preserved_Killick: The only thing Moody's downgrades is their own credibility when they comment on the US credit rating. US bond prices fell the last time they mentioned it (ie it got cheaper for the govt to borrow, more people bought t-bills). It's the least risky security in the world and there' no apparent alternative for the foreseeable future.

"flight to safety" how does it work?

Keep in mind that 2012 will feature another round of US debt ceiling debates where we'll no doubt see the same foot-dragging and rhetoric that we saw last summer. I fully expect both Moody's and Fitch (and perhaps S&P again) to have downgraded the US by at least a notch by end of 2012.

Debeo Summa Credo: Preserved_Killick: The only thing Moody's downgrades is their own credibility when they comment on the US credit rating. US bond prices fell the last time they mentioned it (ie it got cheaper for the govt to borrow, more people bought t-bills). It's the least risky security in the world and there' no apparent alternative for the foreseeable future.

"flight to safety" how does it work?

But Moody's is trying to say that US 10-Year Bonds aren't the safest...can't explain that.

Rejoice brothers, our master plan for destroying the US is almost complete!

Phase One, bitterly dividing our government into opposing parties who can't agree on the time of day on principal, consumed much of our time and energy over the last decade but set the stage for everything else we needed to accomplish.

Phase Two, leaning on the Republicans to enact tax cuts without spending cuts and on the Democrats to enact spending hikes without tax hikes, paid off brilliantly. Federal finances had never been weaker, but due to the strong economy Congress was too stupid to see it!

Phase Three, getting Republicans to remove regulations on banks and Democrats to remove regulations on housing loans was also a massive success. They never saw the inevitable financial crisis coming until it was far too late, and due to our hard work in phase two deficits immediately soared.

Phase Four, turning the debt ceiling increase into a political football, met its objectives. We didn't get a full meltdown like we had hoped, which would have immediately triggered phase six, but we met our twin objectives of spreading fear and uncertainty to investors and rating companies alike. No longer can the US debt payment be taken for granted.

We are now in the midst of Phase Five, demonstrating that to the world that we can't get our finances under control, and all is going as planned. The super committee failed to reach an agreement, as expected. The combination of automatic cuts with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts are a threat to our agenda, but fear not: already legislation is in the works to remove the cuts and keep taxes as is.

Post-supercommittee, Senate Dems ready to move $400 billion in new bills. All of the proposals, such as the extension of the payroll tax cut and unemployment insurance, are popular but come with no agreement on how to pay for them.

Representative Howard McKeon of California said he will introduce legislation to prevent the spending reductions to defense.

Obama Urges Congress to Prevent Payroll Tax Hike After Deficit Panel Failure.

Soon, brothers, we will reach the glorious death spiral of stage six, in which central banks start to move away from US treasuries, causing a spike in rates, which makes the deficit less affordable to the US, which causes banks to move off of treasuries faster.

Long have we awaited this day, but our wait is almost over! All glory to the dark ones!

Oops, mt.

Let's see:
Europe is about to enter a debt spiral of doom. Hell, while we weren't looking, Germany couldn't even get investors to buy all E6 billion of its 10 years. Even France is about to hiccup, and if the agencies downgrade the US w/o downgrading France, Italy, or Spain, I'll *know* it's politically motivated.

Russia has about drunk itself to death.

China's real estate bubble is making Japan's late 80s bubble look reasonable. Combine this with wage increases making Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc., look attractive for bargain basement labor costs ,,,

Japan remains stuck in 1995 mode.

Compare this to the US, and we're not looking quite as terrible.

SomeAmerican: Soon, brothers, we will reach the glorious death spiral of stage six, in which central banks start to move away from US treasuries, causing a spike in rates, which makes the deficit less affordable to the US, which causes banks to move off of treasuries faster.

Move off Treasuries into what? Canned goods? Nothing else is as big and liquid, safety aside.

In the absence of a voluntary default (like we were threatened with this year), there's no plausible scenario under which the US defaults without the world financial system already having completely imploded.

sirrerun: Which American?

American Airlines.

They'll just fly a couple of planes into it.

/let it burn for 12 hours straight
//before setting off the pre-set explosive charges around the base