Britney Spear's Speculum: This post was removed due to a violation of the Stop Internet Piracy Act (SOPA).

This post was removed due to a violation of the Stop Internet Piracy Act (SOPA).

This post was removed due to a violation of Viacom's Feelings.

It won't pass. Needless copywrite extensions are one thing, but this is well publicized. The only thing this is, is a nice bellweather telling if your rep/senator is worth their salt. If they vote for it, then throw them out. They're shills.

saintstryfe: It won't pass. Needless copywrite extensions are one thing, but this is well publicized. The only thing this is, is a nice bellweather telling if your rep/senator is worth their salt. If they vote for it, then throw them out. They're shills.



Shills you say?

Earguy: Why the Stop Piracy Online Act endangers America's Internet leadership

Who are the leaders of the internet, besides TMLO and OldFartHenry?

Al Gore?

*laughs*

America doesn't have anything resembling "Internet leadership"

Brainwash: *laughs*

America doesn't have anything resembling "Internet leadership"

The US created the Internet and controls the DNS system. Absolutely nothing is stopping other countries from saying essentially, "If they can't respect basic rights and are going to axe sites without trial, we'll build our own domain system, and they can either accept our rules or run their own segregated network." Since Hollywood owns an entire US political party, their choice will be to leave, and that's the end of the US being part of the net at all, much less the controlling nation of it.

It's actually even worse than that though. If SOPA passes and you run an internet business which can't afford a full-time staff of on-site lawyers (which is all but the multibillion dollar ones), you get 2 choices:

A. Stay here, and know you're permanently out of business, without a trial, the second one user post in a forgotten thread is found to link to copyrighted content... including if it was planted there specifically to shut you down.

or

B. Move to any of a large number of English speaking countries that would be quite happy to have you leave the US, and take your business and the jobs it creates with you.

Needless to say, that's not a hard choice, and it's one that's only going to hurt one country.

SOPA = Instant Depression, although Europe's going to be quite happy with what it will do to THEIR economy.

I came here to apologize for Amy Klobuchar.

/in my defense, I didn't vote for her.

Earguy: Why the Stop Piracy Online Act endangers America's Internet leadership

Who are the leaders of the internet, besides TMLO and OldFartHenry?

saintstryfe: It won't pass. Needless copywrite extensions are one thing, but this is well publicized. The only thing this is, is a nice bellweather telling if your rep/senator is worth their salt. If they vote for it, then throw them out. They're shills.

If only I could vote him out. This guy will not go away until he dies from the looks of it and he is only 59. *sigh* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Goodlatte#Electoral_history

disguysdalimit: If they shut down everything but Facebook, twitter, porn, tv watching sites and YouTube, there wouldn't be a peep out of anybody but the geeky minority. The history of TV proves that people want to be told what they like.

I like to think otherwise.

Sarah Palin's Conscience: disguysdalimit: If they shut down everything but Facebook, twitter, porn, tv watching sites and YouTube, there wouldn't be a peep out of anybody but the geeky minority. The history of TV proves that people want to be told what they like.

I like to think otherwise.

I know right. The second Mom can't chat on facebook, the kids can't watch cartoons on Youtube, Dad can't get porn, well... It wouldn't be pretty.
/The second the Bible Belt can't get porn without risking being seen at an adult book store it would lead to an instant ousting of all those responsible.

Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

I don't think it's their right, and in fact, if I hear a song, or see a show or movie I enjoy, I make it a point to buy it (on DVD, iTunes, whatever) even if the whole thing is on Youtube. And I still think that SOPA is a bad idea, BECAUSE it's ridiculously over-aggressive.

To answer your question though, some people think it's their 'right' because they're jackasses. If you enjoy something, pay for it; the creators should get some compensation, after all. If you don't enjoy it, don't farking watch/listen to/play it.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

The people who hold the copyrights already have all the power they need to go after people who do that. It's not the job of government it go over civil matters on the behalf of people who already have the means to take care of them themselves. Furthermore there's nothing good about turning civil offenses into criminal offenses.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

Because information wants to be free? No, that's not it.

Because they wouldn't buy it in the first place?? No, that's not it either.

Because (much like the trolls on Fark do what they do) you can't grab them by the throat and shake some sense into them?

Or, just because...they can.

/Oh, SOPA sucks

Closed_Minded_Bastage: Because information wants to be free? No, that's not it.

Because they wouldn't buy it in the first place?? No, that's not it either.

Because (much like the trolls on Fark do what they do) you can't grab them by the throat and shake some sense into them?

Or, just because...they can.

/Oh, SOPA sucks

In my case it's because I don't have the money to do so.
/And if I like the game I usually pick it up on a Steam sale later. Or when it get's cheaper.
//Look I could buy one 50 dollar game or buy an assload of games from steam cheaper section.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

If you talk to most pirates, actually engage them in conversation, you would discover a common thread. At some point they've been suckered, often repeatedly, in to parting with cash for something that didn't deliver on the promises made. Neverwinter Nights 2, Testdrive: Unlimited & C&C4 spring to mind in my case along with a whole host of movies I sat down in the multiplex to watch and left feeling ripped off. They hate being made to feel like theives when they buy something legitimatley (see invasive DRM scheme) so it's a logical extension that if you're being TREATED like a theif to go the whole hog and ACT like a theif, in a lot of cases ripping it off results in a better product! That's as sensible as Mr. Aliens is FFS.

We live in a world where everything = advertising. You can't even trust reviewers anymore (and haven't for over a decade) and the only, real, way to sift through the shiat to find the things worth your money is manually. It doesn't help that overall the quality of the product (be it VG, music or movie) has been falling quite rapidly.

That isn't to say I never put my hand in my pocket though. I've seen a ton of great movies and played a LOT of good games, but each one, with a few exceptions, was vetted before purchase with a pirate copy.

So let me ask you a question, as a theoretical starving artist, if I may? Would you prefer I brought one of your products, get burned and never, ever, do business again or would you prefer I download it, vet your offering, then purchase it... everytime you release something 'good'?

Offtopic: AUTUM STEAM SALE! Portal 2 x2 for £11 ... FARK YEAH! Also snagged both Mass Effects, although I was waiting for an ME2 Ultimate Edition but whatever.

thatboyoverthere:
//Look I could buy one 50 dollar game or buy an assload of games from steam cheaper section.

The amount of Indie titles in my Steam list is... impressive. £5 a throw, can't really loose can ya?

Although most of those purchases were made after watching a WTF is...? or similar style video.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

Conversely, why do I have to pretend there's scarcity where none actually exists?

You want to force me by law to allocate my scarce resources to you because you can't handle the fact that your supply is effectively infinite?

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside,

Except this doesn't stop piracy much at all. It ONLY creates a mechanism to essentially destroy internet businesses.

why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

Where did that come from, and what in god's name are you talking about?
Are you trying to imply that that's the reason people are opposed to this bill or something?
Or that people who think the internet should be open/that this bill is stupid in regards to piracy, are pirates?

Also, what about the rather large scenario where people do or would buy a software product or videogame, but they use a pirated version because, unlike the paid version, it actually works?

Right now, the pirated version of Skyrim is much more stable than the official steam version because it actually allows a few crucial CTD fixes.

sarah_t_s: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

If you talk to most pirates, actually engage them in conversation, you would discover a common thread. At some point they've been suckered, often repeatedly, in to parting with cash for something that didn't deliver on the promises made. Neverwinter Nights 2, Testdrive: Unlimited & C&C4 spring to mind in my case along with a whole host of movies I sat down in the multiplex to watch and left feeling ripped off. They hate being made to feel like theives when they buy something legitimatley (see invasive DRM scheme) so it's a logical extension that if you're being TREATED like a theif to go the whole hog and ACT like a theif, in a lot of cases ripping it off results in a better product! That's as sensible as Mr. Aliens is FFS.

We live in a world where everything = advertising. You can't even trust reviewers anymore (and haven't for over a decade) and the only, real, way to sift through the shiat to find the things worth your money is manually. It doesn't help that overall the quality of the product (be it VG, music or movie) has been falling quite rapidly.

So let me ask you a question, as a theoretical starving artist, if I may? Would you prefer I brought one of your products, get burned and never, ever, do business again or would you prefer I download it, vet your offering, then purchase it... everytime you release something 'good'?

Offtopic: AUTUM STEAM SALE! Portal 2 x2 for £11 ... FARK YEAH! Also snagged both Mass Effects, although I was waiting for an ME2 Ultimate Edition but whatever.

So I guess you insist on hookers giving you one freebie before you actually pay, since you don't want to get "burned?"

lamecomedian:
So I guess you insist on hookers giving you one freebie before you actually pay, since you don't want to get "burned?"

No dear, thats what men are for and if it ain't good you'll know about it.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

I occasionally pirate because purchasing/using the product the legal way is incredibly inconvenient, annoying, and/or ridiculously overpriced.

Obscure/old media can be difficult to find and/or use on current devices. I wouldn't mind paying $3-5 to play old Nintendo games on my laptop, but they won't sell the roms. I don't want a DS and don't want to buy a TV and Wii, so the only choice is to pirate them. I can't find a lot of good foreign movies in nearby rental stores neither (no I'm not buying the DVD online if I only want to watch it once).

DRM, in general, is a huge pain in the ass. There are weird and differing rules on using them on multiple devices. It is waaaay easier just to decrypt it and then use it as I wish. They have made progress on this in the past few years. DRM free music is available now, and Steam is easy to use.

There are tons of ads in not only free content (ie Hulu, which I don't mind) but also in paid content, like DVD's. I mean, seriously:

http://www.myepicwin.com/thumber/picture/thumb/get/D4VKSBHXBWOH/large / If-you-are-a-DVD-pirate-this-is-what-you-get-.jpg

Availability on subscription models can be another thing. I'm subscribed to netflix and amazon prime, so I have a decent selection of videos, but the subscription availability can be bizarre. I've recommended great movies to I've watched there a month or so ago to friends but they found it's not available anymore. I don't understand why the selection doesn't keep expanding. Hell, I'd pay more a little more per month to have extra selection.

Overpriced content mostly only applies to software. As a student, I can't afford the full price for Photoshop or MS office. But since that is the only software that'll be used in my future job, I have to get familiar with it. So, I can either pirate or hope the student discount is reasonable. The companies seem to have figured this out, as nowadays I don't have to hack it anymore. I can get the full MS office for $60 (via the ultimate steal) and I can get a year subscription to the whole adobe package through my school.

I have absolutely no problem paying for stuff when it's convenient, easy, and decently priced. Sure, there will always be assholes who'll want to get everything for free, but when your policies annoy honest customers we may be driven to piracy.

saintstryfe: It won't pass. Needless copywrite extensions are one thing, but this is well publicized. The only thing this is, is a nice bellweather telling if your rep/senator is worth their salt. If they vote for it, then throw them out. They're shills.

It might not be popular with voters, but it seems pretty dang popular with elected officials.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

Saying they think it's a right goes a bit too far, I'd say, and doesn't really have anything to do with SOPA anyway given how broad the bill is written. As to why they do it, I'd say;

1) Because it doesn't actually hurt businesses as study after study has shown.
2) Because it is convenient and not taking advantage of existing technology is ridiculous. Do we fault car owners for abandoning the horse and buggy business?
3) Because they can't actually afford the product they are dling, the flip side of which is that dling it isn't costing the rights holder any business.
4) Because time constraints prevent them from watching the show they'd like to watch, and Hulu's numerous policies favoring twice-paying customers over those who "just" pay for the shows via their cable bill makes watching it there impossible or onerous.
5) Because constantly being bombarded with ads shreds their sanity and makes them want to strangle people (no I'm not joking, yes I realize its the epitome of a "1st world problem", doesn't make it marketing any less maddening).

Heron: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

Saying they think it's a right goes a bit too far, I'd say, and doesn't really have anything to do with SOPA anyway given how broad the bill is written. As to why they do it, I'd say;

1) Because it doesn't actually hurt businesses as study after study has shown.
2) Because it is convenient and not taking advantage of existing technology is ridiculous. Do we fault car owners for abandoning the horse and buggy business?
3) Because they can't actually afford the product they are dling, the flip side of which is that dling it isn't costing the rights holder any business.
4) Because time constraints prevent them from watching the show they'd like to watch, and Hulu's numerous policies favoring twice-paying customers over those who "just" pay for the shows via their cable bill makes watching it there impossible or onerous.
5) Because constantly being bombarded with ads shreds their sanity and makes them want to strangle people (no I'm not joking, yes I realize its the epitome of a "1st world problem", doesn't make it marketing any less maddening).

Please explain how hulu favors people who pay twice. I hadn't heard that before.

sarah_t_s: If you talk to most pirates, actually engage them in conversation, you would discover a common thread. At some point they've been suckered, often repeatedly, in to parting with cash for something that didn't deliver on the promises made. Neverwinter Nights 2, Testdrive: Unlimited & C&C4 spring to mind in my case along with a whole host of movies I sat down in the multiplex to watch and left feeling ripped off. They hate being made to feel like theives when they buy something legitimatley (see invasive DRM scheme) so it's a logical extension that if you're being TREATED like a theif to go the whole hog and ACT like a theif, in a lot of cases ripping it off results in a better product! That's as sensible as Mr. Aliens is FFS

In other words, most pirates think that two wrong make a right :-P

tomcatadam: Where did that come from, and what in god's name are you talking about?
Are you trying to imply that that's the reason people are opposed to this bill or something?
Or that people who think the internet should be open/that this bill is stupid in regards to piracy, are pirates?


I'm talking about those who think they're entitled to free downloads and therefore oppose any effort to prevent them from getting music, movies and so on for free.

a migrating coconut: I occasionally pirate because purchasing/using the product the legal way is incredibly inconvenient, annoying, and/or ridiculously overpriced.

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Forgive me for asking, but overly aggressive ways of stopping online piracy aside, why do some people think it's their "right" to be able to download something for free to get around having to pay for it?

[imgs.xkcd.com image 498x469]

Both of you do make good points. I've thought myself that pirating is justified in such cases. In making my post, I was thinking about those who download stuff for free to get around paying for it to start with.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf:
In other words, most pirates think that two wrong make a right :-P

Well I'm glad you find the situation where you can buy a product, it fail to work as advertised and neither the distributer, publisher or developers have to take any responsibility for it whatsoever to be an acceptable situation that you fully approve of.

So if protecting my wallet against companies willfully doing that is a 'wrong' in your world. So be it.

Also. WHERE THE FARK HA SMY COFFEE GONE?