Speaking as someone who is 25% white, I mostly wouldn't be here is it weren't for immigrunts.

Let them stay.

Yes, even the Irish.

vernonFL: East Jesus, Alabama

that is one scary town, btw.
dead head sticker on your import is probable cause for search, seizure, and beat down.

I gotta say, that's actually pretty clever on Gingrich's part. The leftier media outlets won't attack him on it, but it's still a newsmaker, so it distracts everybody from the Freddie Mac story.

/And the ex-wives

vernonFL: East Jesus, Alabama

I always thought East Jesus was in Texas.

vernonFL: GAT_00: mass amnesty

What about all the ones who are criminals? At least half of illegal immigrants are actually Hezbollah operatives and Al-Qaeda bomb makers.

The other half are members of the IRA or Mexican drug cartels.

vernonFL: Code_Archeologist: Newt apparently forgot his audience

Actually, I think Newt *DID* know his audience. The debate was in DC in front of policy wonks and political elite - NOT in Bumfark, Iowa or East Jesus, Alabama

Newt and the GOP honchos know that the Hispanic vote is important.

Darn. I hope they don't get wise and deviate from their "Kill the Mexicans! Electrified fences! haha jk" platform. Those kinds of comments do wonders for democrats.

GAT_00: You simply cannot, CANNOT, go around and kick out one of thirty people in this country. It's impossible.

Sure you can. Can't do it overnight, but they didn't all come here overnight either. Obama was doing such a good job, even without his best efforts, that he had to pull back with the "prioritization" approach. And as been said many times before when you commit to enforcing the law many will self deport.

CorporatePerson: Darn. I hope they don't get wise and deviate from their "Kill the Mexicans! Electrified fences! haha jk" platform. Those kinds of comments do wonders for democrats

It's the first thing that makes sense about this;
Newt may have actually, and quite smartly, realized that they've been trashing a massive portion of the vote, and is making slight overtures that might get picked up by and resonate well with that subset of the population.

Ooooooor maybe he just doesn't want to have to kick out the hedgetrimmer that gives him a special treatment while his wife is out sucking blood and cackling at the moon.

vudukungfu: Speaking as someone who is 25% white, I mostly wouldn't be here is it weren't for immigrunts.

Let them stay.

Yes, even the Irish.

There's a process for legally immigrating to this country. If you choose not to follow it and thereby cut in front of actual law abiding immigrants, you need to be sent back ASAP. In addition, you should be barred from legally returning for a lengthy period of time.

He's just looking for a way out, and this'll do fine.

Scerpes: vudukungfu: Speaking as someone who is 25% white, I mostly wouldn't be here is it weren't for immigrunts.

Let them stay.

Yes, even the Irish.

There's a process for legally immigrating to this country. If you choose not to follow it and thereby cut in front of actual law abiding immigrants, you need to be sent back ASAP. In addition, you should be barred from legally returning for a lengthy period of time.

Why? Gotta go sit in the corner and think about what you did while making the line even longer?

If you chose not to wait in line, you now have to work in the immigration offices, helping to clear out the backlog of applications. Kill two birds with one stone.

// or serve in the military, or work for government

Hey, Mississippi got rid of 'em and unemployment dropped 0.5%. It's stimulus!

Newt is actually a pretty smart guy. Occaisionally, he even has good idas. Fundmentally, though, he clings to the conservative notion that we still live in the 1800s and there is little to no value in the federal government, and the current GOP base is so far removed from modern reality that any one who wants the nomination is going to need to pander, and pander hard.

This sort of practical and even positive solution to what is essentially only a minor problem in the country isn't going to fly. That says more about the state of the GOP base then anything about Newt.

Here's a solution...

Make all immigration legal and don't put restrictions on who can work, where.

Non perminant residents are inelligible for wellfare programs, social security, and unemployment insurance, but pay the tax.

vernonFL: GAT_00: mass amnesty

What about all the ones who are criminals? At least half of illegal immigrants are actually Hezbollah operatives and Al-Qaeda bomb makers.

Simple - put our mighty Wall Street financial gurus to work on a way to monetize these two things, then bundle them with shares of other financial products and sell them to eager investors. Fixed forever!

/Also, why the hell is Fark being so slow today?

Scerpes: vudukungfu: Speaking as someone who is 25% white, I mostly wouldn't be here is it weren't for immigrunts.

Let them stay.

Yes, even the Irish.

There's a process for legally immigrating to this country. If you choose not to follow it and thereby cut in front of actual law abiding immigrants, you need to be sent back ASAP. In addition, you should be barred from legally returning for a lengthy period of time.

Well, for sure the Irish aren't following the rules.

This won't make major waves: his position is a moderate one in his party, but he didn't attack people who disagree like Perry.

Besides, if you want lack of nuance then his Pakistan soundbyte (that we should be happy that relations between the US and the only nuclear Muslim state have soured instead of worrying about the threat to global stability a rift could cause) beat all the other candidates in winning over the "national security" voters.

I think the story of the night was actually Romney's "the trillion dollar defense cuts that are coming are to fund Obamacare" line. What are the chances of that becoming a talking point?

I want everyone to imagine Newt trimming his own hedge.

You're welcome.

MugzyBrown: Make all immigration legal and don't put restrictions on who can work, where.

The problem is... if you think unemployment is bad now, just wait for that to happen.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: It is a sad day in this country when an appeal to empathy for the immigrant poor is seen not as an appeal to our humanity but as a craven abandonment of 'principle'.

Empathy? You think that is his motivation? Gingrich has a long history of being for a "guest worker program". He is for it because the corporate/farm lobbyists want it for cheap labor. Gingrich is a poster boy of the 1%.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: It is a sad day in this country when an appeal to empathy for the immigrant poor is seen not as an appeal to our humanity but as a craven abandonment of 'principle'.

It is sad that you have to legislate from the perspective of emotion instead of cold hard facts. Never mind the facts that our schools are aging, our infrastructure is crumbling and that we have high unemployement... lets let more people in, I feel for them.

elchip: The problem is... if you think unemployment is bad now, just wait for that to happen.

It'll work itself out. People will stop coming if there aren't jobs available, especially if they know they can come and go as they please.

Saiga410: It is sad that you have to legislate from the perspective of emotion instead of cold hard facts. Never mind the facts that our schools are aging, our infrastructure is crumbling and that we have high unemployement... lets let more people in, I feel for them.

None of which is particularly due to illegal or mass immigration so much as the policies of the bureaucracies involved, the government and the corporations related to those respective areas.

In fact, one area of employment is much more affected by less legal immigration because illegal immigration provides a tool for employers to pay sub-legal wages and not to hire/provide jobs for American citizens.

Scerpes: vudukungfu: Speaking as someone who is 25% white, I mostly wouldn't be here is it weren't for immigrunts.

Let them stay.

Yes, even the Irish.

There's a process for legally immigrating to this country. If you choose not to follow it and thereby cut in front of actual law abiding immigrants, you need to be sent back ASAP. In addition, you should be barred from legally returning for a lengthy period of time.

It's also a pain in the ass and kinda expensive. What bothers me is the people who talk about how their ancestors immigrated legally...back in a time when all you had to do was show up.

Here was the process for my wife (which started before we met). The prices may be a little off, I'm going off the top of my head.

1. Get job in states. A company, Pan American, handled all the paperwork and fees. Which were about $1200
About three weeks after she's here, we meet, do the dating thing, then decide to get married
2. Get married.
3. Apply for the following.
a. change of status - $700
b. Work Visa - fee waived since we applied for a green card.
c. Green Card - $1300
d. Get medical records, birth certs, tax returns for both of us, proof of co-habitation, etc etc etc. All told, another $400, mostly the medical exam, which was a total scam. She had paperwork for vaccinations and blood tests, but the doc still made her re-do them.
4. I applied to sponsor her, which was an additional $600. Also, I have to prove my ability to support her (tax returns again, as well as a year's worth of pay stubs)
She applied for all this June 2, her visa expired July 11.
5. august-ish, get biometrics done
6. Workcard arrives in September
7. Interview on Oct 12 for green card....we passed
8. Green card arrives a few days later.
9. Fall of next year, we have to re-submit a bunch of stuff, since they do 2-year provisional green cards now. It won't cost anything, but we still have to get the docs together, and they're vague about what they want. Hopefully, joint tax returns, mortgage paperwork, and bank statements will work.


I'm not disagreeing with you or anything, and I'm not saying that it's wrong to have a process that is long and involved, but almost everyone I've talked to about this was taken aback by how much we had to do. Most of them assume that since we're married, it's easy and not too expensive. Most people don't really understand how hard it can be to legally immigrate.

Dwight_Yeast: vernonFL: East Jesus, Alabama

I always thought East Jesus was in Texas.

There's one in Texas too. Also in Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Georgia.

Sort of a permanent slave class. The Bible and Jesus would be OK with that.

Scerpes: There's a process for legally immigrating to this country. If you choose not to follow it and thereby cut in front of actual law abiding immigrants, you need to be sent back ASAP. In addition, you should be barred from legally returning for a lengthy period of time.



We need more photo's like this, right?

MugzyBrown: ...especially if they know they can come and go as they please.

Can our poor go as the please?

vudukungfu: Speaking as someone who is 25% white, I mostly wouldn't be here is it weren't for immigrunts.

Let them stay.

Yes, even the Irish.



How hip.

Philip Francis Queeg: Scerpes: There's a process for legally immigrating to this country. If you choose not to follow it and thereby cut in front of actual law abiding immigrants, you need to be sent back ASAP. In addition, you should be barred from legally returning for a lengthy period of time.

[cloud.frontpagemag.com image 419x313]

We need more photo's like this, right?

If I had my way you would have seen adrian on a catapult. They boy down in section 8 are working on devising a catapult capable of hitting asia and the ex russian states.

/I don't know why the simpson's "punishable by catapult" resonates so much with me that I think it should be the defacto punishment for everything.

Are you ready for the final...SOLUTION??

"You find people who have been here 25 years, and have two generations of family, and have been paying taxes, and are in a local church, and as somebody who believes strongly in family, you're going to have a hard time explaining why that particular subset is being broken up and forced to leave."

So accellerate the visa program or institute some sort of retuning where you get bumped up the queue on the recommendation/request of a citizen who is hosting you (that second generation of family that, assumably, was born here).

There's plenty of ways the immigration process with regards to Mexico could be streamlined, but "hey, just let 'em stay if they're all puppy-eyed and family-looking" is not a solution, it's more fuzzy policy bullshiat that will just add more goddamned loopholes.

The solution is to aggressively prosecute people with illegal employment practices, since attacking the problem from the other end (making it so that illegals can't go to the hospital/call the police without getting deported) empirically just screws cities by turning immigrant neighborhoods into de facto lawless slums that shoot the crime rate through the roof. Well, we should also step up/accellerate deportation proceedings for any illegal arrested for anything, letting them hang around and appeal for years or make bail and disappear is bullshiat.

Existing immigration law in the US is already quite friendly compared to the rest of the first world (get caught illegally working in the UK and you can never apply for a legal green card again, while in the US we don't really care, sign up as often as you want), if we enforced it competently things would be fine. The heartless "fark 'em all, build a fence" change to policy is stupid on its face, and the "but these criminals have families, therefore they deserve amnesty for their crimes" bleeding-heart shiat is something we tried in the 80s and found to be a complete and utter failure. It's time to try actually enforcing the law as-is for once in our bloody history. If we're gonna change shiat, change the amount of resources allocated to Mexican immigration processing so that the people that actually want green cards can get them without waiting six years and cut the motivation for border-hopping at the root.

Philip Francis Queeg: We need more photo's like this, right?

So the family should have been allowed to keep the boy? Against the wishes of his father and the court's decision?

vernonFL: Code_Archeologist: Newt apparently forgot his audience

Actually, I think Newt *DID* know his audience. The debate was in DC in front of policy wonks and political elite - NOT in Bumfark, Iowa or East Jesus, Alabama

Newt and the GOP honchos know that the Hispanic vote is important.

It was also on CNN, so most of the Party Faithful either didn't see it or thought it was a Soros trick.

Scerpes: vudukungfu: Speaking as someone who is 25% white, I mostly wouldn't be here is it weren't for immigrunts.

Let them stay.

Yes, even the Irish.

There's a process for legally immigrating to this country. If you choose not to follow it and thereby cut in front of actual law abiding immigrants, you need to be sent back ASAP. In addition, you should be barred from legally returning for a lengthy period of time.

The problem with the consraints on that policy is that in essence it is nearly impossible to do so given the number of visas issued every year.

The solution to the problem is to make it easier and less prohibitive to immigrate legally (most would not live as underground second class noncitizens given the opportunity), disincent businesses from hiring undocumented workers (heavy fines for violations and a vetter verification system) and s better system of identifying who comes into the country (background checks and entry visas issued in the country of origin). Is it quick and easy? No but i think it would work better than the way things are now. Big business likes an inexhaustible supply of easily exploited labor so i would say the chances of ot happening are VERY slim.