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(CTV) Fail 2009: Herd of 200,000+ Caribou destroyed by Climate Change 2011: Oh, oops. Turns out they just moved   (ctv.ca) divider line 116
More: Fail, Saskatchewan, reindeers, Nunavut, Arctic Ocean, consultations, herds  
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6665 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Nov 2011 at 11:16 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



116 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2011-11-23 08:33:52 AM
This is why I always nail my moose down.
 
2011-11-23 09:25:25 AM
ARTHUR: The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plumber may seek warmer climes in winter yet these are not strangers to our land.
GUARD #1: Are you suggesting caribou migrate?
 
2011-11-23 10:05:48 AM
I'll bet that's where the passenger pigeons went too.

Stupid scientists, what do they know?
 
2011-11-23 10:54:06 AM
Herbivores are sneaky like that, moving where the food is.
 
2011-11-23 11:22:15 AM
because CONSENSUS, you racist!
 
2011-11-23 11:22:17 AM
Did the submitter fabricate the climate change connection?
 
2011-11-23 11:23:12 AM
Giggle....snort
 
2011-11-23 11:24:01 AM
Respect your elders.
 
2011-11-23 11:25:18 AM
It's quantum climate change they were destroyed over there and restored here.
 
2011-11-23 11:25:48 AM
Canadians couldn't find a polar bear in a snow storm.
 
2011-11-23 11:28:18 AM
BurnShrike: ARTHUR: The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plumber may seek warmer climes in winter yet these are not strangers to our land.
GUARD #1: Are you suggesting caribou migrate?


Not at all. They could be carried.
 
2011-11-23 11:28:40 AM
My roommate got a herd of Caribou. Then they got lost. They're in the apartment somewhere.
 
2011-11-23 11:28:55 AM
And yet, in spite of this overwhelming evidence, some of you will continue to push this hoax on the rest of us. Amazing.
 
2011-11-23 11:29:01 AM
"Global warming/climate change is a Lie-beral LIE" trifecta now in play.
 
2011-11-23 11:30:05 AM
Fenton! Fenton! Jesus Christ! Fenton!
 
2011-11-23 11:30:33 AM
Philip J. Fry: Did the submitter fabricate the climate change connection?

Yeah, I read FTA and didn't see *any* mention to climate change. Looks like the shills are hard at work to fabricate a controversy.
 
2011-11-23 11:31:38 AM
"...and consultation with the communities that live with the animals"

Good one, climate science guy.
 
2011-11-23 11:32:54 AM
But that's how climate change works!
 
2011-11-23 11:32:57 AM
This proves that Global Warming is made up.

Told you so!

/no, not really
 
2011-11-23 11:34:13 AM
doubled99: And yet, in spite of this overwhelming evidence, some of you will continue to push this hoax on the rest of us. Amazing.

Nice try.
 
2011-11-23 11:34:47 AM
Meh. No decent biologist would believe that a herd of that size could just "disappear" in few years time, unless they were being hunted with wild abandon. And if you read the article, they didn't. They just didn't know where they went, because they hadn't done enough research on them.
 
2011-11-23 11:38:23 AM
FTA: It turns out that the Beverly herd has simply shifted its calving grounds north from the central barrens near Baker Lake, Nunavut, to the coastal regions around Queen Maud Gulf. Nagy's analysis of radio-tracking data showed caribou in the region once thought to belong to the Ahiak herd are, in fact, Beverly animals.

Scientists:"Where have you been? We've been worried sick!"
Caribou: "What, we can't go and hang out with our buddies?"
 
2011-11-23 11:38:42 AM
Hey subtard, do you see any caribou in ANY of these landscapes?
salsadanza.tripod.com
www.harmonicflow.com
www.solarviews.com
Ipso-Facto ... climate change is wiping the caribou from the face of the planet!11
 
2011-11-23 11:38:55 AM
MrSteve007: Philip J. Fry: Did the submitter fabricate the climate change connection?

Yeah, I read FTA and didn't see *any* mention to climate change. Looks like the shills fark employees are hard at work to fabricate a controversy page clicks.


FIF?
 
2011-11-23 11:40:37 AM
Moved....north. Because of climate change?
 
2011-11-23 11:41:55 AM
neversubmit: FIF?

Yeah, I'd say it's likely both at work. Unless they're one-and-the-same!?!?!

/dun dun dun
 
2011-11-23 11:44:17 AM
There's a caribou down the street from my apartment. I think they'd have trouble moving it that far north, let alone 276,000 of them.
 
2011-11-23 11:45:27 AM
Scientists: They're just like you and me, except they are considered SMEs and can be wrong without consequences.
 
2011-11-23 11:46:00 AM
MrSteve007: Philip J. Fry: Did the submitter fabricate the climate change connection?

Yeah, I read FTA and didn't see *any* mention to climate change. Looks like the shills are hard at work to fabricate a controversy.


Try this article from 2009. Link (new window)
 
2011-11-23 11:46:03 AM
I guess today is climate change day. We haven't had one of those in awhile. Good thing Wednesday is free popcorn day at work (seriously.)
 
2011-11-23 11:46:43 AM
They hated that street.
 
2011-11-23 11:47:47 AM
2009: Caribou change disappeared. 2011: It had just moved under my sofa cushion.

t1.gstatic.com
 
2011-11-23 11:51:45 AM
She dashed by me in painted on jeans
And all the heads turned beacuse she was the queen
In the blink of an eye I knew her number and her name yeah
And she said I was the tiger she wanted to tame

Caribou Queen

encrypted-tbn0.google.com

This thread is now Palin.
 
2011-11-23 11:52:07 AM
Philip J. Fry: Did the submitter fabricate the climate change connection?

Nope. The "connection" was explicitly made in 2009 when the caribou went "missing": Warming blamed for dwindling caribou herds (new window)

Frankly, I'm shocked. I always thought climate change scientists were excellent at following the herd.
 
2011-11-23 11:53:01 AM
Reindeer heading north? Inconcievable!
 
2011-11-23 11:53:30 AM
Iggie: Fenton! Fenton! Jesus Christ! Fenton!

Came for THIS.

/ and it still cracked me up
 
2011-11-23 11:55:30 AM
simplicimus: Herbivores are sneaky like that, moving where the food is.

It's worse. They're fleeing from mosquitoes one part of the year, then fleeing from wasps that lay eggs in their spines.

/at least that's what Farley Mowat said
 
2011-11-23 11:55:32 AM
MrSteve007: Philip J. Fry: Did the submitter fabricate the climate change connection?

Yeah, I read FTA and didn't see *any* mention to climate change. Looks like the shills are hard at work to fabricate a controversy.


Here's an article from when they thought the tasty bastards were missing. (new window) It looks like the AP was the primary culprit in screaming "Warming!" as opposed to a decent number of actual scientists.

/surprised they didn't blame Sarah Palin.
 
2011-11-23 11:55:44 AM
Naturally, I went looking for the original information.

I found a 2008/2009 report on the Beverley Cariboo Herd from cariboo herd management (not the head cows, the people on the Management Board that has been set up to oversee the herd).
Link: http://www.arctic-caribou.com/news_winter08-09.html#facts

First, the article above points out that the scientists did consult with native hunters (who consulted their elders) and that this information was, correctly, taken into account. The issue is that herds are not discrete organisms--they are made up of cariboo which stick together more or less, and cariboo can move from herd to herd. The scientists used to define herds in terms of their calving grounds. It has become clear that the cariboo, even cariboo herds, are not as loyal to calving grounds as thought, and the scientists therefore have leaned towards defining herds in terms of animals sticking together. This shift means that you have to shift from counting cariboo at the calving grounds to following the comings and goings of cariboo joining and leaving herds year round.

In any case, this report I found makes some things clearer about the facts of the case.

One, the herd has been declining (in terms of calving females at the calving grounds, pregnant females as a percentage of total females, etc.). Second, there is more than one calving ground and therefore more than one calving ground needs to be protected. Third, the range of this herd is enormous--from Northern Saskatchewan to Nunavut. This is an area equal in size to the range of the Northern American bison herds that once roamed the American and Canadian West in vast numbers.

It's not easy to track hundreds of thousands of individual cariboo. It's not even easy to track migratory herds, which like flocks of birds may gain and lose members to other herds, some migratory, some more or less fixed in stable ranges.

Point: The herd is in decline, apparently.

Only 189 adult female caribou (cows) were counted on the Beverly calving ground during the 2007 survey and only 93 cows were seen during the June 2008 calving ground survey. That's down from 5,737 seen in 1994.

Another sign of trouble: only 15 calves for every 100 cows were found during the 2008 reconnaissance survey. That's far below the 80 calves per 100 cows found on the calving grounds of healthy barren-ground caribou near the peak of calving.

And a third red flag popped up in April 2008 when blood samples from 28 Beverly and Ahiak cows on which satellite collars were being placed revealed that fewer than half those animals were pregnant.

"That's very unusual for caribou anywhere," NWT ungulate biologist Jan Adamczewski told Caribou News in Brief. A pregnancy rate of 70 to 80 percent is the norm.

http://www.arctic-caribou.com/news_winter08-09.html#facts

Point: The surveys don't count cariboo. They identify calving grounds. Thus a major decline at one calving ground may look like loses but the cariboo may simply be elsewhere.

Reconnaissance surveys don't estimate population sizes. They map the location of concentrated calving grounds and provide information about the numbers of caribou on the calving ground at the peak of calving in a given year. The Beverly herd was last successfully counted in 1994, when it numbered about 276,000. Bad weather grounded the GNWT's June 2007 attempt to do another population survey.
http://www.arctic-caribou.com/news_winter08-09.html#facts

Third point: If this report (2008/2009) is the basis of the media claim that global warming was suspected (not a definite and exclusive cause) then the report acknowledge the unknowns and the spin by denialists is BS:

A mix of factors may be to blame for the population drop, and the exact cause may never be known. The decline may be part of a natural cycle. The herd may also have been affected by exploration and development, hunter harvest, changes in habitat (including winter range being lost to forest fires), parasites and diseases, predation and climate change, as well as some mixing between the Beverly and Ahiak caribou herds.

AND NOW FOR THE GRAND FINALE!

The (single) hunter who claimed that the cariboo herd had simply mingled with other herds also believes that fires and global warming have altered the behaviour of the herd:

Hunter disagrees on decline

The Beverly herd's range stretches from northern Saskatchewan through the NWT to Nunavut.

At least one Saskatchewan hunter thinks the Beverly herd has not declined, however, but has moved north. BQCMB alternate member Pierre Robillard of Black Lake, who participated in the GNWT's 2008 reconnaissance survey with BQCMB member Dennis Larocque of Camsell Portage, thinks Beverly caribou have mixed with other herds north of Baker Lake. Robillard feels that global warming and far-reaching wildfires have pushed the Beverly out of his province. Fire "really, really affects the caribou."

WOOF! THERE IT IS! WOOF! THERE IT IS!

In your face, denialists!

Conclusion: Case against the scientists is MOSTLY BULL shiat.

We all know that global warming is likely to increase the number of wildfires. We all know that the number of wildfires, areas burned, etc., are increasing and have for the last few decades. We all know that it's not easy to attribute any particular event to climate change, but that lots and lots of particular events of the type predicted, in the place and time predicted, bear the fingerprints of climate change.

In short, the scientists and other herd managers weren't wrong, you can't prove that they were wrong, the record proves, if anything, that their concerns are legitimate, and the guy cited against them was actually consulted AND QUOTED by them and actually shares their concerns.

About par for the course for denialism.
 
2011-11-23 11:56:23 AM
And this is a surprise how? Man made climate change is a complete lie.
 
2011-11-23 11:56:38 AM
Well shait. That'll learn me to spellcheck and make sure the links go to the right places. I got beat out on the cite and the Palin joke.
 
2011-11-23 11:56:57 AM
FTA: "We haven't screwed up and lost a major caribou herd after all."

Yes, you did screw up. You've now corrected your screw-up.
 
2011-11-23 11:57:18 AM
Executive Summary of my previous post:

Bite me!
 
2011-11-23 11:57:23 AM
Professczar: Nope. The "connection" was explicitly made in 2009 when the caribou went "missing": Warming blamed for dwindling caribou herds (new window)

Frankly, I'm shocked. I always thought climate change scientists were excellent at following the herd.


Ahh, thanks for the link. That one does make a mention of this herd. It also says this:

"Drawing on scores of other studies, government databases, wildlife management boards and other sources, the biologists found that 34 of 43 herds being monitored worldwide are in decline. The average falloff in numbers was 57% from earlier maximums, they said."

So now only 33 of the 43 herds are in rapid decline. Whew, that was a close one. Global warming is a hoax!
 
2011-11-23 11:58:33 AM
Did anyone ask Sarah Palin where they were? I bet she could see them from her house the whole time.
 
2011-11-23 11:58:50 AM
Clearly this means that global warming is fake, Sarah Palin is President and Nobama has been sent to Gitmo to be water boarded and all is right with the world.
 
2011-11-23 11:59:51 AM
/insertpic "if my doctor smokes I can't get lung cancer...hurrr"/
 
2011-11-23 12:00:22 PM
make me some tea: I'll bet that's where the passenger pigeons went too.

Stupid scientists, what do they know?


LOL
except that we know EXACTLY what happened to the passenger pigeons, PEOPLE ATE THEM.
 
2011-11-23 12:00:54 PM
axemanking: MrSteve007: Philip J. Fry: Did the submitter fabricate the climate change connection?

Yeah, I read FTA and didn't see *any* mention to climate change. Looks like the shills are hard at work to fabricate a controversy.

Try this article from 2009. Link (new window)


That article is about a general shrinking of caribou herds, the beverly herd was used as an extreme example.

They've found the beverly herd, which eliminates the extreme example. It does nothing to alter the rest of the data set.

Any controversy about mankind effecting the climate is purely political.
 
2011-11-23 12:02:07 PM
Professczar: Philip J. Fry: Did the submitter fabricate the climate change connection?

Nope. The "connection" was explicitly made in 2009 when the caribou went "missing": Warming blamed for dwindling caribou herds (new window)

Frankly, I'm shocked. I always thought climate change scientists were excellent at following the herd.




I am loathe to debate anything based on USA today articles, but these two articles don't seem to be in conflict. The 2009 article cited to worldwide decline of caribou herds and an exploration of why.

The current article deals only with one such herd. It doesn't negate the overall concern about worldwide decline. The scientists in question openly admit that their initial concern about this herd has been allayed by the new data. They also note that sometimes you have to formulate hypotheses and make decisions based on imperfect data, but then you adjust when you get more info.


The irony here is that I bet the same people who criticize scientists who do not have perfect data on caribou migration are the ones who would mock funding a study on caribou migration as pork-barrel spending.
 
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