Good for Oregon!
I don't believe in the death penalty. I'd love to see the entire US adopt this (but it's not going to happen).

Oregon's great and I applaud our governor for this decision.

GAT_00: Eh, I don't know if it should be banned entirely. It should require absolute proof of guilt, and should only be usable for multiple homicides, but some very few people do deserve killing.

Sorry, GAT, my friend, but I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I don't believe that taking someone's life to show that killing is wrong is morally justified. You have your beliefs and I respect that. But I'm staunchly against the death penalty no matter what a person's done.

cman: Some people lose the right to live.

Google Oba Chandler. Go on, do it. Now tell me, how in the world does that guy not deserve what he got?

Google Angela McAnulty. She's a horrible horrible person.

culebra: Oregon's great and I applaud your governor for this decision.

FTFM

Lordy, I'll bet Friday morning's Tea Party meeting at the diner is gonna be a loud one.

I can't miss this one.

The_Sponge: Being the proud Washingtonian that I am, I love making fun of Oregon.

But let's be honest, there are a lot of other states that are worse to live in.

go back to Vancouver.

cman: Some people lose the right to live.

Google Oba Chandler. Go on, do it. Now tell me, how in the world does that guy not deserve what he got?

I would agree, except maybe you should google IBA Chandler (second link)

GAT_00: shivashakti: Good for Oregon!
I don't believe in the death penalty. I'd love to see the entire US adopt this (but it's not going to happen).

Eh, I don't know if it should be banned entirely. It should require absolute proof of guilt, and should only be usable for multiple homicides, but some very few people do deserve killing.

How would you show absolute proof?

just curious what you would qualify as absolute, as well as proof.

To clarify my pov, I oppose the death penalty, but I'd like to hear your argument.

You are green farkied, cause I like your posts, btw.

GAT_00: shivashakti: Good for Oregon!
I don't believe in the death penalty. I'd love to see the entire US adopt this (but it's not going to happen).

Eh, I don't know if it should be banned entirely. It should require absolute proof of guilt, and should only be usable for multiple homicides, but some very few people do deserve killing.

You can't really do that because a "guilty" verdict is supposed to be proof of guilt. If you create some sort of "super-guilty" category then everybody who has been found guilty could challenge their sentence. If you don't trust guilty verdicts a super-guilty verdict wouldn't do any good anyway since the same system produces both. It really comes down to: would you rather kill innocent people so you can also kill guilty people or not kill anyone. Your answer depends on how much you value human life.

Now I shall prepare for the hordes of ITG's to tell me how little they value human life.

The human fallability argument is a bit half-arsed, in my opinion.

That main page op-ed on the death penalty that popped up a few days ago (yes, the one with the ridiculous turkey comparison) made a good point: the death penalty is the ultimate violation of the principle of limited government. I'm going to use that one from now on to make conservatives' heads explode.

Living in Oregon rocks, Subby.

cman: Some people lose the right to live.

Google Oba Chandler. Go on, do it. Now tell me, how in the world does that guy not deserve what he got?

No one loses the right to life. We can only take it from them.

I'm not a bleeding heart hippie, but I consider human life inherently precious, even if it belongs to a scumbag. No human has the right to decide a defenseless prisoner should be killed.

There are two reasons I can think to end a person's life: self defense and mercy killing. Capital punishment doesn't fit with either.

CayceP: The_Sponge: Being the proud Washingtonian that I am, I love making fun of Oregon.

But let's be honest, there are a lot of other states that are worse to live in.

This. At least bash Southern Oregon (anything south of Eugene), which actually deserves it.

I love Oregon. But I was once driving to Eugene, and realized I really needed gas. I got off the highway and drove to Glendale, thinking there would be a station there. It reminded me of the town in Stephen King's Children of the Corn. And there wasn't a gas station open. I went back to the highway, and there was a little dive station there. I asked for 89 octane, but they only had 87 and diesel. So 87 octane it was. I asked where the restroom was, she said out back. As it was nearing dark, it took me a little while to figure out it was a porta potty.

Anyway, good for the governor. The death penalty is a failure, unless you consider revenge success.

Bathia_Mapes: coco ebert: Really, subby? Oregon seems like a pretty nice state to live in.

It is. And, IMHO, there's nothing more beautiful than the Oregon Coast.

West Oregon is nice. Central and East are typically cold, barren, and filled with fundies.

/Oregonian

coco ebert: Really, subby? Oregon seems like a pretty nice state to live in.

Portland is gray but awesome. Gary doesn't like it but whatever.

view from my work in fall/winter/spring





View from my work in summer

FerneJohn: Bathia_Mapes: coco ebert: Really, subby? Oregon seems like a pretty nice state to live in.

It is. And, IMHO, there's nothing more beautiful than the Oregon Coast.

West Oregon is nice. Central and East are typically cold, barren, and filled with fundies.

/Oregonian

Yes, but no one actually lives in Central and East Oregon.

Exception Collection: The_Sponge: Being the proud Washingtonian that I am, I love making fun of Oregon.

But let's be honest, there are a lot of other states that are worse to live in.

That's alright, we make fun of the people in Washington. And the people in Idaho and California.

I'm proud of my governor for doing this, even though I still feel like beating two prisoners (only one of whom is on death row) to death with my bare hands. That's vengeance talking, and that can't be allowed to control our way of life.

/Knew one of Conan Wayne Hale's victims

I'm sympathetic. I was reading about Jerry Sandusky raping a 10-year-old and wanted nothing more than for someone to strangle the ugly bastard. I was smart enough to calm down and realize I was fantasizing about revenge, however, not justice.

Until a way to is found to prosecute and execute murderers that does not cost millions of dollars, we absolutely need to do away with it. Farking waste of millions of our dollars is not justified by it's precedong waste of life.

Our govt spending is so farked up.

odinsposse:
Now I shall prepare for the hordes of ITG's to tell me how little they value human life.

I believe that the standard metric insurance companies use when deciding to treat terminal patients or not is 50k$/year of functional/quality life. So if your remaining life expectancy is 15 years, your life is worth saving up to the point it costs more than 750k$ or so.

It's more complex than that, a bit, but that's the gist of it.

//Honestly, I think life in prison constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. If there's uncertainty as to whether they're guilty or there's the potential for reform, set them a finite sentence that can later be modified as needed. If they need to be removed from society completely, just kill them, don't torture them with confinement for the rest of their days, that's just terrifyingly inhumane.

cman: cman: SundaesChild: cman: Some people lose the right to live.

Google Oba Chandler. Go on, do it. Now tell me, how in the world does that guy not deserve what he got?

Google Angela McAnulty. She's a horrible horrible person.

Jesus Christ! I never heard of her.

These are the kind of people you are trying to protect? That mother TORTURED AND STARVED her child to death. How can you defend that?

How?

Wasnt directed at you, SundaesChild. Should have made that more clear.

I understood. And that is why I can't entirely discount the death penalty. Some people are just severely broken.

SundaesChild: cman: Some people lose the right to live.

Google Oba Chandler. Go on, do it. Now tell me, how in the world does that guy not deserve what he got?

Google Angela McAnulty. She's a horrible horrible person.

No amount of sugarcoating changes the fact that the death penalty is a very dangerous power to give the government, and requires hiring someone for the job of executioner.

Would another (significantly more expensive and irreversible) death somehow cause justice to start showering down from the air like rain?

This is why I can't support a death sentence. There is no "undo" button in life, and the best means forward from such a horrific crime so far seems to be to apprehend and incarcerate the offender and use their actions as an example of what not to do. Anything beyond that is revenge, and does nothing to improve the situation other than make us responsible for another death.

We should be learning as much as we can about the dysfunction of those we might otherwise sentence to death in order to reduce the occurrence of that type of idiocy on our planet. It's both more affordable and less fallible, what's not to like?

SilentStrider: shivashakti: Good for Oregon!
I don't believe in the death penalty. I'd love to see the entire US adopt this (but it's not going to happen).

It would make Rick Perry's head explode...

Which come to think of it, is another point in its favor.

With apologies to Rick Perry's supporters...it truly takes balls to not execute someone who deserves it.

/Mercy is the mark of a great man.
//*STAB*
//Guess I'm just a good man.
///*STAB*
///Well, I'm all right.

Unless a prosecutor can show video evidence of the killer committing the crime to a jury, suspects shouldn't even be eligible for the death penalty.

cman: Some people lose the right to live.

Google Oba Chandler. Go on, do it. Now tell me, how in the world does that guy not deserve what he got?

Some people don't get what they deserve. Human life is too big of a deal to put in the hands of an imperfect justice system. Better for some people who deserve death not to get it than some who don't to be killed.

Good on you, Kitzy.