Good for him. I'm such a procrastinator that if I finally got around to shoot myself, it would take months or years for me to die.

jimmyego: FTFA: were unable to remove the bullet as he was suffering from high blood pressure

Why would that make a difference, and well wouldn't it be worth a try anyway?

/I tried googling honest

From what I understand, high blood pressure can cause a dangerous amount of blood loss if an operation is attempted, especially on such a delicate area as the brain.

_{I think I read it in a book once}

I thought I was the queen of procrastination.

*shakes tiny fist at subby*

Ed Finnerty: FTFA: A share-broking firm owner died on Sunday evening, four days after he shot himself in the temple at his fourth-floor flat in Tilak Nagar.

This guy must have been loaded to not only afford to build his own temple, but to do it four floors up,

Yeah, everybody probably has their own temple in India, even regular apartments. And they're all very holy, so they wouldn't do it in, like, the bathroom, or the kitchen. They'd go to the temple.

was it me? I'll check next week...

ill wait till tomorrow to read the artical

He'll probably be late for his own funeral too...

This is a perfect example of why my high school biology teacher told us that, were we ever to shoot ourselves, to make sure that you put the gun in your mouth, at an angle to take out your cerebellum, and the autonomic impulses. You were a cool teacher Mr. Schaser.

Repo Man: This is a perfect example of why my high school biology teacher told us that, were we ever to shoot ourselves, to make sure that you put the gun in your mouth, at an angle to take out your cerebellum, and the autonomic impulses. You were a cool teacher Mr. Schaser.

Yea, about that since you brought it up...

Ever seen what's left when someone does that, except lying flat on the floor with their mouth full of water? On white carpet? Looked like the kid tried to eat a grenade.

Don't need a picture to remember that one.

I can't think of something witty, so I'll really try tomorrow...

I don't get the "mouth full of water" part. Why would water be in the mouth after shooting oneself in the mouth? Or before?

Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow? That's totally my motto. I'd explain it to you, but fark it, I'll do it later.

Failmadeofwin: jimmyego: FTFA: were unable to remove the bullet as he was suffering from high blood pressure

Why would that make a difference, and well wouldn't it be worth a try anyway?

/I tried googling honest

From what I understand, high blood pressure can cause a dangerous amount of blood loss if an operation is attempted, especially on such a delicate area as the brain.

I think I read it in a book once

Not sure, but it is certainly possible.

On the other side, post-op procedure has you NOT giving the patient blood thinners because the subject just had holes cut in them and need to clot around the stitched tissues to keep from bleeding to death. But most blood pressure medication thins the blood so it won't clot up. Also surgery is stressful on the body, which I believe can increase blood pressure, and a bunch of other little things that all tie together to be very bad for the patient with high blood pressure. Finally, removing a bullet from someone's brain is just never a good idea, sometimes it is the "least bad" idea, but never a GOOD one. WAY too many big arteries and important tissues you don't want to fark around with and that never grow back.

Or I'm misremembering, I was just a paper-pusher and we didn't have a neurosurgery wing at the hospital I worked at.

Repo Man:

you put the gun in your mouth, at an angle to take out your cerebellum, and the autonomic impulses.

Shotgun. 20 gauge with 0 buckshot would be my choice, but IIRC Kurt Cobain somehow got the job done using a .410 and low-recoil bird shot.

What I'd really like would be to wrap explosives around my head and blow my brains all over that way; I doubt I'd feel any pain like that either. (Yes, off in a field by myself.) It's too bad I couldn't rig up somthing like a gigantic "foot" to stomp down hard & fast: one reason I don't mind squashing bugs is I don't see how they can even register the event. One second it's there, the next --

Ewww! Put the gun in my mouth?? But bullets are dirty, and you don't know where that gun barrel has been.

I'd kill myself if I lived in India.....

Habitual? No, his was a chronic case.

Dad took two years to die. Freaking procrastinator KING!

TheBigJerk: Failmadeofwin: jimmyego: FTFA: were unable to remove the bullet as he was suffering from high blood pressure

Why would that make a difference, and well wouldn't it be worth a try anyway?

/I tried googling honest

From what I understand, high blood pressure can cause a dangerous amount of blood loss if an operation is attempted, especially on such a delicate area as the brain.

I think I read it in a book once

Not sure, but it is certainly possible.

On the other side, post-op procedure has you NOT giving the patient blood thinners because the subject just had holes cut in them and need to clot around the stitched tissues to keep from bleeding to death. But most blood pressure medication thins the blood so it won't clot up. Also surgery is stressful on the body, which I believe can increase blood pressure, and a bunch of other little things that all tie together to be very bad for the patient with high blood pressure. Finally, removing a bullet from someone's brain is just never a good idea, sometimes it is the "least bad" idea, but never a GOOD one. WAY too many big arteries and important tissues you don't want to fark around with and that never grow back.

Or I'm misremembering, I was just a paper-pusher and we didn't have a neurosurgery wing at the hospital I worked at.

Friend died slowly from a cerebral hemorrhage when he never should have been revived. Aneurysm, not gunshot. After 3 strokes. Was on blood thinners. Even had a DNR order. His wife called the ambulance anyway. Took him about 12 days to finally die from kidney failure after bleeding red (bad sign, BTW) into the bed bag for 4-5 days with no food and just saline and almost no palliative drugs. His brain was nothing but a brain stem from the beginning of the hospitalization and he had no hope of recovery from the beginning. Did I mention he'd done all the DNR paperwork? At least he didn't feel any of it, as he was brain dead before he even got there.

jimmyego: FTFA: were unable to remove the bullet as he was suffering from high blood pressure

Why would that make a difference, and well wouldn't it be worth a try anyway?

I was in the hospital last year for uncontrollable tachycardia (high heart rate) and it made my blood pressure spike so hard they debated putting in an IV of saline because they didn't want to stick me before my pressure went down. I was dehydrated from the flu and we had to call an ambulance because I collapsed at home. I was awake the whole time, but the ambulance crew had to call the hospital before they put the IV in on the ride in. Apparently if I had been having a stroke or a heart attack then farking up an IV could have caused a sudden drop in blood pressure which could have been catastrophic.

But once you're at the hospital? They were probably worried that if they broke the seal they didn't have enough blood to keep him alive if it went wrong. That's my best guess. One, the bullet was in his head, and two, it's India. They make great doctors, but they don't have great medical facilities there.

I'll post something in this thread later.

HalRoach: Did I mention he'd done all the DNR paperwork?

HalRoach: His wife called the ambulance anyway.

I don't know the specifics about what the laws are where you live, but in OK you better make damn sure your family is either on board with your DNR or isn't around if you get incapacitated.

"At any time, a representative may revoke a do-not-resuscitate consent for an incapacitated person under the care of a health care agency by notifying a physician or other health care provider of the health care agency of the revocation of consent in writing or by orally notifying the attending physician." OR "...by destroying the form and removing all do-not-resuscitate identification from the person. The representative is responsible for notifying the person's attending physician of the revocation."

From what I have been told, they don't have to be designated as a health care proxy to revoke it, either. So if your terrified and grief-stricken family wants them to resuscitate you and you aren't able to say no, your ass is getting CPR'd.

Well, CPR'd or whatever it is the docs want to try to keep you alive.

Dictatorial_Flair: HalRoach: Did I mention he'd done all the DNR paperwork?

HalRoach: His wife called the ambulance anyway.

I don't know the specifics about what the laws are where you live, but in OK you better make damn sure your family is either on board with your DNR or isn't around if you get incapacitated.

"At any time, a representative may revoke a do-not-resuscitate consent for an incapacitated person under the care of a health care agency by notifying a physician or other health care provider of the health care agency of the revocation of consent in writing or by orally notifying the attending physician." OR "...by destroying the form and removing all do-not-resuscitate identification from the person. The representative is responsible for notifying the person's attending physician of the revocation."

From what I have been told, they don't have to be designated as a health care proxy to revoke it, either. So if your terrified and grief-stricken family wants them to resuscitate you and you aren't able to say no, your ass is getting CPR'd.

I dotted every I and crossed EVERY T. Lawyers and everything, piles of individually notarized copies of all the related orders. (For my state)

I have a signed and notarized/witnessed order in my walled and multiple copies in my home and on file at the local hospital and a medical alert wrist bracelet alerting people to these facts, including there's a legal order for the state I reside in in my wallet exactly because of what happened to my friend.

I'm old, I have sucky health. I have no illusions of my life expactancy and I don't want to die brain dead on a ventilator. Just a waste of everybody's money, including other people that have the same insurance as I do...

I'm hoping that's sufficient. Living alone probably improves my odds. But I hope the bracelet and properly done documents I always carry around will keep people from being heroes when something breaks for good.

HalRoach: "blah."

It sounds like you've really put some effort into making sure your decision is documented and known. I've seen one person with DNR tattooed across their chest, I guess you could do that if you're concerned it would still be overlooked. That's a little extreme, but it would be kind of hard to miss during a code blue. Did the lawyers mention any other legal protections or precautions you could take? I'm really just a newbie RN, so I'm sure I don't know all the intricacies of the laws regarding DNR.

If you do have any family members around who you think might tell the medical staff not to honor the DNR, I would have a serious talk with them about your end of life decisions. I would hope that most people who would be that concerned for someone they love would honor their choices, but they can't if they don't know what you want.

notmtwain:

I'm sure that mtwain would have seen the dark humour of the situation.

Dictatorial_Flair: HalRoach: "blah."

It sounds like you've really put some effort into making sure your decision is documented and known. I've seen one person with DNR tattooed across their chest, I guess you could do that if you're concerned it would still be overlooked. That's a little extreme, but it would be kind of hard to miss during a code blue. Did the lawyers mention any other legal protections or precautions you could take? I'm really just a newbie RN, so I'm sure I don't know all the intricacies of the laws regarding DNR.

If you do have any family members around who you think might tell the medical staff not to honor the DNR, I would have a serious talk with them about your end of life decisions. I would hope that most people who would be that concerned for someone they love would honor their choices, but they can't if they don't know what you want.

Blah. To quote you.

My dad was a hospital administrator and MD. My mom is a retired MSN. And my friend was a State Attorney...My family know my wishes but don't live near. Things could still go to hell in the wrong place. But I'm hoping they don't. Watched too many friends die slowly on ventilators against their wills, living, and their actual wills (as in intent and want). If you're a real "newbie RN" you've seen the look of people that were pleading to be allowed to die unless you are a serious newbie or all the people about to die you've ever seen so far weren't sentient.

Makes more sense using money on people that are salvageable that science could learn from than wasting it on people that aren't and are already resigned to death.

HalRoach: Blah. To quote you.

My dad was a hospital administrator and MD. My mom is a retired MSN. And my friend was a State Attorney...My family know my wishes but don't live near. Things could still go to hell in the wrong place. But I'm hoping they don't. Watched too many friends die slowly on ventilators against their wills, living, and their actual wills (as in intent and want). If you're a real "newbie RN" you've seen the look of people that were pleading to be allowed to die unless you are a serious newbie or all the people about to die you've ever seen so far weren't sentient.

Makes more sense using money on people that are salvageable that science could learn from than wasting it on people that aren't and are already resigned to death.


I just didn't see the point of re-posting the block of text that was a couple of inches above, I wasn't trying to devalue your post or anything. I guess you'd know what's what with people like that around you.

And I am seriously new, months in at this point. Nobody pleading so far, except for a couple of suicidal folks. Everyone I've seen die at this point was pretty much unconscious when I got there. I'm sure it will come up sooner than I'd like.

Repo Man: This is a perfect example of why my high school biology teacher told us that, were we ever to shoot ourselves, to make sure that you put the gun in your mouth, at an angle to take out your cerebellum, and the autonomic impulses. You were a cool teacher Mr. Schaser.

Were a cool teacher? He shoot himself in the head or something?

/get that you probably graduated and went on with life.
//still going to Hell for chuckling.

Dictatorial_Flair: And I am seriously new, months in at this point. Nobody pleading so far, except for a couple of suicidal folks. Everyone I've seen die at this point was pretty much unconscious when I got there. I'm sure it will come up sooner than I'd like.

I've seen friends die on ventilators that did not want to be on them, very slowly. One of them asked me, by note written in real time, to smuggle him a pistol from his house. He wasn't going to get better, but they had just enough machinery to keep him alive and conscious. Lingered for months. That was about 1987. It's worse now for people who know they are done for, as the technology can keep them alive even longer when they are just tired and already resigned.

Ugliest feeling in the world is when you wish you could carry out their wishes and you can't. I'm just trying to make sure nobody ends up in that position with me.

American Decency Association: Bookmarked for later

I was going to post the same, but I decided to wait and see if somebody else would.

HalRoach: I've seen friends die on ventilators that did not want to be on them, very slowly. One of them asked me, by note written in real time, to smuggle him a pistol from his house. He wasn't going to get better, but they had just enough machinery to keep him alive and conscious. Lingered for months. That was about 1987. It's worse now for people who know they are done for, as the technology can keep them alive even longer when they are just tired and already resigned.

Ugliest feeling in the world is when you wish you could carry out their wishes and you can't. I'm just trying to make sure nobody ends up in that position with me.


That's awful. Being on a ventilator doesn't automatically make you incompetent to make health care decisions. :(

There have been laws passed in the last 10-15 years that reinforced the right to refuse any kind of care you don't want, though I have noticed that many health care workers are loath to advertise that fact to patients. I will be sure to keep an eye out for situations like that if I'm ever working ICU. It is (likely) completely within the rights of a patient to sign a DNR and then refuse ventilator therapy if they don't want to linger like that, it just has to be brought to the attention of the right people.

I don't know what kind of health issues you have, but I think it's good that you have that stuff laid out now. I'd much rather know what a patient or family member actually wants ahead of time than to try to decide what to do in the middle of a emergency situation. I actually just had a conversation with my mom about that the other day. It seems like a lot of people refuse to think about things like that until it's too late.

Dictatorial_Flair: I'd much rather know what a patient or family member actually wants ahead of time than to try to decide what to do in the middle of a emergency situation. I actually just had a conversation with my mom about that the other day. It seems like a lot of people refuse to think about things like that until it's too late.

For people a bit south of you, if you're an Okie... (new window)

There are some other forms and things related to living wills and inside hospital treatment that all have to be sorted for everything to work "properly"...I'm not a lawyer and will not pretend to be one on the internet, but I will suggest that web page is only the start of a journey where it helps to have a good legal consultant and lots of people at your lawyer's office and bank to sign, notarize, and witness things...

notmtwain: Even if the man was a known procrastinator, it wouldn't be funny-- because how long it takes to die from a gunshot wound is not something someone can control.

Perhaps if someone else had delayed reporting the shooting, it might be somewhat ironic.

Maybe we should come back in a couple of days and ask his little children what they think of their dad shooting himself. That's right up your alley, isn't it?



"A middle age man dies, a Fark joke gets made. Fair trade."

/Hot like nancy Callahan