I wonder when they'll learn that they'll never be happy and that it's just not helpful to continually oust/produce new leaders?

Yeeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!

Dollars to donuts, it will be some Mullah or Ayatollah. Welcome to Iran 2.0

I for one would like to submit my resume

F-ing protestors. Don't they know when they are given an order to disperse they are supposed to obey. Bunch of attention whores

WrestlerManager: Dollars to donuts, it will be some Mullah or Ayatollah. Welcome to Iran 2.0

That's what I figure. A reign of terror ala French Revolution, ending with an Islamic Napoleon that will give the West trouble.

I heard they told him to walk

Who's next?

Gyrfalcon: The revolution.....puts on sunglasses will revolve. yeeeeeeaaaaahhhhhhh

/ftfy

Hopefully, they won't get fooled again...

Who?

Shocking.

The Cabinet wasn't the new boss. It's the group of fall guys who were picked by the new boss.

cgraves67: WrestlerManager: Dollars to donuts, it will be some Mullah or Ayatollah. Welcome to Iran 2.0

That's what I figure. A reign of terror ala French Revolution, ending with an Islamic Napoleon that will give the West trouble.



Thanks alot Fartbongo.

Just put Hawass in charge.

cgraves67: WrestlerManager: Dollars to donuts, it will be some Mullah or Ayatollah. Welcome to Iran 2.0

That's what I figure. A reign of terror ala French Revolution, ending with an Islamic Napoleon that will give the West trouble.

And? It took the French a long time to get it right, but eventually they did. No one ever said the road to a fair and democratic society was easy. At the very least the Egyptians are making it extremely clear that they are not going to accept even the faintest whiff of old-style cronyism and collusion of their political elites.

KiltedBastich:
And? It took the French a long time to get it right, but eventually they did. No one ever said the road to a fair and democratic society was easy. At the very least the Egyptians are making it extremely clear that they are not going to accept even the faintest whiff of old-style cronyism and collusion of their political elites.

As did the Iranians. We're still waiting for that democracy to emerge.

This one wasn't Islam-y enough for me. There are still other religions in the country and the women were starting to get uppity.

WrestlerManager: KiltedBastich:
And? It took the French a long time to get it right, but eventually they did. No one ever said the road to a fair and democratic society was easy. At the very least the Egyptians are making it extremely clear that they are not going to accept even the faintest whiff of old-style cronyism and collusion of their political elites.

As did the Iranians. We're still waiting for that democracy to emerge.

You'll note that the Iranians actually did get it right initially, and then they got sabotaged by the west who installed a puppet ruler - who was overthrown by a combination of secular leftist and radicalized Islamist. The radicalized Islamists then turned on their erstwhile allies to set up the totalitarian theocratic state Iran is now. Had the west not meddled in the first place, who knows what would have happened.

The thing is, the situation in Iran is unstable in the long run, for all the same reasons that led to the Arab uprisings. You can only forcibly crush all dissent for so long before the whole situation explodes. It's already come close to happening several times in Iran, and only increasingly violent regime crackdowns have held that off. Frankly, it's simply a matter of time. It's simply impossible to keep people from knowing that such things are effective these days without a combination of a complete external communications blackout combined with an insitutionalized cult of personality à la North Korea. Iran is simply too westernized for that to work there; the average Iranian knows about the Internet, and cell phones, and modern communications in general.

I fully expect the situation in the Arab world to get worse before it gets better, but the main thing here is that the people now know that they can win these confrontations. It's no longer speculative. They know they can confront their corrupt and oppressive elites successfully, and they currently do not have anything to lose in doing so. That means that any attempt to set up another corrupt regime will inevitably face the same response. The real trick will be in setting up a regime that isn't corrupt (or at least no more so than any normally functioning democracy) and then convincing the masses that it really is on the up and up. After decades of corruption, oppression and betrayal, their natural response is going to be paranoia and suspicion, and justifiably so.

KiltedBastich: cgraves67: WrestlerManager: Dollars to donuts, it will be some Mullah or Ayatollah. Welcome to Iran 2.0

That's what I figure. A reign of terror ala French Revolution, ending with an Islamic Napoleon that will give the West trouble.

And? It took the French a long time to get it right, but eventually they did. No one ever said the road to a fair and democratic society was easy. At the very least the Egyptians are making it extremely clear that they are not going to accept even the faintest whiff of old-style cronyism and collusion of their political elites.

The process for France to "get it right" was to execute tens of thousands of people (many of whom were innocent) set up a series of dictatorships and declare war on anyone they could reach. They only changed from this path after several massive wars decimated their economy/populace.

I'm not sure if we should hope for that path.

This headline is like a secret love child of The Who and The Bangles.

cgraves67: WrestlerManager: Dollars to donuts, it will be some Mullah or Ayatollah. Welcome to Iran 2.0

That's what I figure. A reign of terror ala French Revolution, ending with an Islamic Napoleon that will give the West trouble.

Islamic Napoleon I smell a Sandler movie

KiltedBastich: WrestlerManager: KiltedBastich:
And? It took the French a long time to get it right, but eventually they did. No one ever said the road to a fair and democratic society was easy. At the very least the Egyptians are making it extremely clear that they are not going to accept even the faintest whiff of old-style cronyism and collusion of their political elites.

As did the Iranians. We're still waiting for that democracy to emerge.

You'll note that the Iranians actually did get it right initially, and then they got sabotaged by the west who installed a puppet ruler - who was overthrown by a combination of secular leftist and radicalized Islamist. The radicalized Islamists then turned on their erstwhile allies to set up the totalitarian theocratic state Iran is now. Had the west not meddled in the first place, who knows what would have happened.

The thing is, the situation in Iran is unstable in the long run, for all the same reasons that led to the Arab uprisings. You can only forcibly crush all dissent for so long before the whole situation explodes. It's already come close to happening several times in Iran, and only increasingly violent regime crackdowns have held that off. Frankly, it's simply a matter of time. It's simply impossible to keep people from knowing that such things are effective these days without a combination of a complete external communications blackout combined with an insitutionalized cult of personality à la North Korea. Iran is simply too westernized for that to work there; the average Iranian knows about the Internet, and cell phones, and modern communications in general.

I fully expect the situation in the Arab world to get worse before it gets better, but the main thing here is that the people now know that they can win these confrontations. It's no longer speculative. They know they can confront their corrupt and oppressive elites successfully, and they currently do not have anything to lose in doing so. That means that any attempt to set up another corrupt regime will inevitably face the same response. The real trick will be in setting up a regime that isn't corrupt (or at least no more so than any normally functioning democracy) and then convincing the masses that it really is on the up and up. After decades of corruption, oppression and betrayal, their natural response is going to be paranoia and suspicion, and justifiably so.

It will only get better when they run out of oil money.

You are hereby sentenced to the Presidency of Egypt...

watson.t.hamster: The process for France to "get it right" was to execute tens of thousands of people (many of whom were innocent) set up a series of dictatorships and declare war on anyone they could reach. They only changed from this path after several massive wars decimated their economy/populace.

I'm not sure if we should hope for that path.

Nor am I. I did say I felt it would get worse before it got better. I am just saying that complete pessimism is unwarranted. In the long run, this is part of the more or less "normal" way of a revolution. After all, the American Revolution and the Civil War were both bloody as well, with much unnecessary death. It is deeply regrettable and to be avoided wherever possible, but sometimes that's what it takes to really change things.

simon_bar_sinister: It will only get better when they run out of oil money.

I am unconvinced. Oil money did not save Qaddafi, after all, nor did it prevent the uprising that the Iranian regime has already been forced to crack down on.

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, you won't be fooled again

KiltedBastich: watson.t.hamster: The process for France to "get it right" was to execute tens of thousands of people (many of whom were innocent) set up a series of dictatorships and declare war on anyone they could reach. They only changed from this path after several massive wars decimated their economy/populace.

I'm not sure if we should hope for that path.

Nor am I. I did say I felt it would get worse before it got better. I am just saying that complete pessimism is unwarranted. In the long run, this is part of the more or less "normal" way of a revolution. After all, the American Revolution and the Civil War were both bloody as well, with much unnecessary death. It is deeply regrettable and to be avoided wherever possible, but sometimes that's what it takes to really change things.

simon_bar_sinister: It will only get better when they run out of oil money.

I am unconvinced. Oil money did not save Qaddafi, after all, nor did it prevent the uprising that the Iranian regime has already been forced to crack down on.

When oil money runs out those in power will not have the means to stop these events.

cgraves67: WrestlerManager: Dollars to donuts, it will be some Mullah or Ayatollah. Welcome to Iran 2.0

That's what I figure. A reign of terror ala French Revolution, ending with an Islamic Napoleon that will give the West trouble.

Yeah, you're a racist fark.

simon_bar_sinister: When oil money runs out those in power will not have the means to stop these events.

Well, that much is certain. The question is whether or oil money is enough to stop them in the first place. It wasn't in Qaddafi's case, is all I am saying. It is therefore logical to assume that it isn't certain to be enough in the case of Iran either, at least not forever.

We're all focusing too much on individual leaders, and not the reasons why they are put into power.

/of course, even thinking about those reasons is doubleplusungoodthink, so any organized study of them is out of the question