What a dick move. And I'm not even American.

fark you AIG, and fark everything to do with you.

What the fark.

Why do I suddenly feel all guillotiney?

Interesting... I'm sure there could be some fun unintended consequences if this dude won.

Can't we just kill him?

In fairness, though, Hank Greeberg is a major douchebag, so it's not like he can really help it.

Bailing out AIG was a bad idea and this lawsuit is proof of that. What an ungrateful douchbag.

Cue the liberal hippies hating on the job creator....

claiming that the government takeover of the insurer was unconstitutional.

Dude has a point. I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows seizing private Corporations. Oh, and there's no such thing as a "too big to fail" clause either.

GaryPDX: claiming that the government takeover of the insurer was unconstitutional.

Dude has a point. I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows seizing private Corporations. Oh, and there's no such thing as a "too big to fail" clause either.

Jeez, what a surprise. Gary once again sides with the douchebag and against the American people.

What a farking jerkoff.

AdolfOliverPanties: GaryPDX: claiming that the government takeover of the insurer was unconstitutional.

Dude has a point. I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows seizing private Corporations. Oh, and there's no such thing as a "too big to fail" clause either.

Jeez, what a surprise. Gary once again sides with the douchebag and against the American people.

What a farking jerkoff.

No, I'm siding with the Constitution. There's no doubt this clown is a doochebag but that doesn't justify the government seizing private Corporations.

Paying for != seizing

GaryPDX: No, I'm siding with the Constitution. There's no doubt this clown is a doochebag but that doesn't justify the government seizing private Corporations.

I wonder how you feel about Eminent Domain. If you don't fall on the side of the government on that one I would be astonished.

As for AIG, they were BEGGING the government to bail their asses out. The government had already said fark you to Lehman Brothers, but AIG was so big that it would have further farked the economy that Bush and his wars and tax cuts had already crippled, so the government said "yeah, we will bail you out, but there are farking strings attached this time." See, unlike that TARP bullshiat.

There comes a time when the choice is look at a company that has farked everyone over and not given a shiat and promises to keep doing it and say "not this time. No more."

But, you are an idiot, so I can see why you would be against trying to stop a great depression and force FAIR capitalism.

Grab your torches and pitchforks!

NeedlesslyCanadian: Paying for != seizing

The Federal Government owns 80% of AIG stock (new window). At one point it was 92%. Last time I checked it wasn't a choice. AIG was deemed "too big to fail" and the Fed snarfed them up.

That's a seizure.

More fuel on the fire. These people just don't understand that eventually the unwashed masses will have enough and they have a lot of guns and will follow any rable rouser that comes along.

GaryPDX: AdolfOliverPanties: GaryPDX: claiming that the government takeover of the insurer was unconstitutional.

Dude has a point. I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows seizing private Corporations. Oh, and there's no such thing as a "too big to fail" clause either.

Jeez, what a surprise. Gary once again sides with the douchebag and against the American people.

What a farking jerkoff.

No, I'm siding with the Constitution. There's no doubt this clown is a doochebag but that doesn't justify the government seizing private Corporations.

I don't recall exactly how the AIG deal went down, but with the car manufacturers the were offered the bailout. No one was required to take it, and I'm betting AIG wasn't either.

AdolfOliverPanties: But, you are an idiot, so I can see why you would be against trying to stop a great depression and force FAIR capitalism.

What exactly is FAIR capitalism? There's no such thing as "too big to fail" in capitalism.

GaryPDX: NeedlesslyCanadian: Paying for != seizing

The Federal Government owns 80% of AIG stock (new window). At one point it was 92%. Last time I checked it wasn't a choice. AIG was deemed "too big to fail" and the Fed snarfed them up.

That's a seizure.

Percentage is irrelevant. They were offered bailout money in exchange for ownership percentage, and took it. That's not seizure, that's purchase.

GaryPDX: the Fed snarfed them up.

How did they do that, Gary? Did they trade them some Wampum, or give them cash to settle their goddamn idiotic insurance scams that they had no money to pay for which banks put on their books as assets?

Diogenes: I don't recall exactly how the AIG deal went down, but with the car manufacturers the were offered the bailout. No one was required to take it, and I'm betting AIG wasn't either.

It's not bailouts when the Fed requires ownership.

NeedlesslyCanadian: Percentage is irrelevant. They were offered bailout money in exchange for ownership percentage, and took it. That's not seizure, that's purchase.

lol..a forced purchase. Man, you guys have short memories. When all the banks realized what was happening they paid back their bailouts real farking quick, that they were forced to take.

GaryPDX: Diogenes: I don't recall exactly how the AIG deal went down, but with the car manufacturers the were offered the bailout. No one was required to take it, and I'm betting AIG wasn't either.

It's not bailouts when the Fed requires ownership.

If they didn't like the terms, they were under no obligation to take it.

Just as with people who biatch about other people who were irresponsible and uninformed when committing to risky mortgages, we're biatching that an irresponsible company is turning around after accepting the deal and saying it just didn't work out for their shareholders.

Cuts both ways.

Jesus christ Gary.

GaryPDX: Diogenes: I don't recall exactly how the AIG deal went down, but with the car manufacturers the were offered the bailout. No one was required to take it, and I'm betting AIG wasn't either.

It's not bailouts when the Fed requires ownership.

Equity exchanged for cash? How does that work? Must be socialism.

Diogenes: Just as with people who biatch about other people who were irresponsible and uninformed when committing to risky mortgages, we're biatching that an irresponsible company is turning around after accepting the deal and saying it just didn't work out for their shareholders.

Cuts both ways.

They should have been allowed to fail in the first place. That's how Capitalism cleans up after itself. I don't believe the "Chicken Little" story the left spews about OMG the world would have exploded if we hadn't bailed out everyone nonsense. There are plenty of other private insurers who would have picked through the bones and move on.

Now AIG is STILL just a black hole of suck on taxpayer dollars with no end in sight.

GaryPDX: NeedlesslyCanadian: Percentage is irrelevant. They were offered bailout money in exchange for ownership percentage, and took it. That's not seizure, that's purchase.

lol..a forced purchase. Man, you guys have short memories. When all the banks realized what was happening they paid back their bailouts real farking quick, that they were forced to take.

The bailouts were created specifically for these assholes, at their pleading that they needed money to prop up their failing businesses. The only ones who forced their hand in taking the money was themselves, by being shortsighted and engaging in toxic investments that came back to bite them in the ass.

The only fault here is AIG's.

Jackson Herring: Jesus christ Gary.

I'm sorry arguing FOR the Constitution is so appalling to you. You guys enjoy your afternoon.

NeedlesslyCanadian: The bailouts were created specifically for these assholes, at their pleading that they needed money to prop up their failing businesses.

And the Fed should have said NO. But instead they said sure! just turn over ownership.

GaryPDX: NeedlesslyCanadian: The bailouts were created specifically for these assholes, at their pleading that they needed money to prop up their failing businesses.

And the Fed should have said NO. But instead they said sure! just turn over ownership.

And their only goal was to greedily absorb a failing business so they could get into the insurance game. It certainly wasn't their goal to stem the consequences from the colossal farkup by AIG.

Hank's just pissed that the government made tossing him out on his ass a condition of the bailout. AIG circa 2008 should be forever enshrined in every MBA Program around the country as a case study in how NOT to run a business. Greenberg was an intensely paranoid and self-centered man, and he built a company that reflected that/. The company had huge internal barriers that prevented deprtments and subsidiaries from sharing information horizontally. So all comunnication was one way to teh top of the power structure. So much so that when AIG started to collapse, Senior manaagemetn and the BOD realized that Hank, and ONLY Hank actually knew what all the various parts of AIG were doing at any given time.

This lead to things like one division selling CDS swaps on RMBS's like hotcakes while their research division was sending up a huge red flag about RMBSes and the CFO assuring investors that the company held no such positions during a call.

When Treasury stepped in to save them, they looked at this clusterfarked corporate structure and demanded that it, and the man responsible for it, be tossed out immediately. Greenberg's been bitter about it ever since

GaryPDX: NeedlesslyCanadian: Paying for != seizing

The Federal Government owns 80% of AIG stock (new window). At one point it was 92%. Last time I checked it wasn't a choice. AIG was deemed "too big to fail" and the Fed snarfed them up.

That's a seizure.

Actually for legal reasons the Fed never owned more than 79.9 % of the outstanding common shares of AIG. 80% has some important legal ramifications Treasury was eager to avoid. And to be even more technically precise, we never owned the stock per se, just warrants to buy the stock at a set price. That's what were slowly unloading on investors, at a fairly handsome profit.

GaryPDX: They should have been allowed to fail in the first place. That's how Capitalism cleans up after itself. I don't believe the "Chicken Little" story the left spews about OMG the world would have exploded if we hadn't bailed out everyone nonsense.

"The left" and "we" in this case being that noted leftist George W. Bush, right? You do realize it wasn't the Melanin Marauder who was president at the time of the AIG bailout (or as you call it, the AIG "seizure"), right?

GaryPDX: Dude has a point. I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows seizing private Corporations. Oh, and there's no such thing as a "too big to fail" clause either.

While, as others have pointed out, this was not a "seizure," there certainly are times when insurance companies are actually seized and taken over by regulators, i.e., when they fail financially and cannot pay their claims. Most states--probably all of them actually---have governmental or quasi-governmental guarantee funds, generally funded by premium taxes, that step in to pay claims when an insurer is broke, and that also take over (and usually liquidate) that insolvent insurer (in your state, it's the Oregon Insurance Guaranty Association, for example). Are you saying that all of these guarantee funds that are set up to protect policyholders are unconstitutional?

Seriously, Gary, you are literally a child.

GaryPDX: Diogenes: Just as with people who biatch about other people who were irresponsible and uninformed when committing to risky mortgages, we're biatching that an irresponsible company is turning around after accepting the deal and saying it just didn't work out for their shareholders.

Cuts both ways.

They should have been allowed to fail in the first place. That's how Capitalism cleans up after itself. I don't believe the "Chicken Little" story the left spews about OMG the world would have exploded if we hadn't bailed out everyone nonsense. There are plenty of other private insurers who would have picked through the bones and move on.

Now AIG is STILL just a black hole of suck on taxpayer dollars with no end in sight.

It wasn't "chicken Little bullshiat" in October 2008 the (US financial) world DID explode, but thanks to quick action by the Treasury and the Fed, no one noticed.

For almost a full day, the US "Commerical Paper" market froze solid. Banks were so unsure of thier exposure to the AIG CDS swap mess that they literally didn't know what their capital reserves were, and without knowing that they had no way of legally making ANY loans without the risk of being declared insolvent. Which meant they bought ZERO commercial paper.

Now while that might not mean anything to you, that was financial Armageddon on a plate if it had gone on for even a week. The CP market is how Buisnesses large and small in this country meet operating expenses. Most places are on 90 day terms with their commercial customers meaning that the comapny they ship their product to has 90 days to pay their supplier. So how do thier suppliers buy raw materials and pay wages to MAKE the product if they won't get paid for it until AFTER the deliver it? (3 months after in fact)

They float short term loans on the CP market backed by their account recievables. Since most of those are pretty solid they generally can borrow on 60-90 day terms for a very low interest rate. This allows them to meet payroll and keep the doors open while waiting for payment on their AR's. When that market froze solid and nobody , no matter how good their credit was, could borrow ANYTHING, the country was on the verge of an economic meltdown, as otherwise perfectly healthy companies, suddenly unable to make payrolls would have had to lay off millions and default on billions in supplier payments


and this would have gone on for MONTHS as AIG unwound itself in bankruptcy and SIPC proceedings. Instead Paulson got a bunch of the folks most responsible for this crapfest in a room and handed them a pile of loan money and told them that even if they didn't need it they WERE going to take it. Why? So that the banks that DID need it wouldn't be so easy to indentify by the short sales predators looking to make a killing on the market by forcing a bank into default and then buying up its parts cheaply. Furthermore Paulson told them, they were to take the money and they were to start lending like madmen to unfreeze those markets. And it almost worked. Paulson, sadly was too much of a republican to put truly meaningful regulations on HOW the banks used the money, so by and large they hoarded it and played financial games with it rather than using to actually HELP people. But enough of it made its way into the CP market to save millions of Jobs and businesses, so it worked ENOUGH to keep us from complete meltdown and instead only left us with a 2nd great depression

Magorn: For almost a full day, the US "Commerical Paper" market froze solid.

I don't thing anyone has ever given credit to the Federal Reserve Commercial Paper Facility. That alone saved us from almost total collapse, considering how many companies rely on that for payroll and day-to-day operations, including GE.

NewportBarGuy: Federal Reserve Commercial Paper Facility


The Federal Reserve Board on Tuesday announced the creation of the Commercial Paper Funding Facility (CPFF), a facility that will complement the Federal Reserve's existing credit facilities to help provide liquidity to term funding markets. The CPFF will provide a liquidity backstop to U.S. issuers of commercial paper through a special purpose vehicle (SPV) that will purchase three-month unsecured and asset-backed commercial paper directly from eligible issuers. The Federal Reserve will provide financing to the SPV under the CPFF and will be secured by all of the assets of the SPV and, in the case of commercial paper that is not asset-backed commercial paper, by the retention of up-front fees paid by the issuers or by other forms of security acceptable to the Federal Reserve in consultation with market participants. The Treasury believes this facility is necessary to prevent substantial disruptions to the financial markets and the economy and will make a special deposit at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in support of this facility.

The commercial paper market has been under considerable strain in recent weeks as money market mutual funds and other investors, themselves often facing liquidity pressures, have become increasingly reluctant to purchase commercial paper, especially at longer-dated maturities. As a result, the volume of outstanding commercial paper has shrunk, interest rates on longer-term commercial paper have increased significantly, and an increasingly high percentage of outstanding paper must now be refinanced each day. A large share of outstanding commercial paper is issued or sponsored by financial intermediaries, and their difficulties placing commercial paper have made it more difficult for those intermediaries to play their vital role in meeting the credit needs of businesses and households.

By eliminating much of the risk that eligible issuers will not be able to repay investors by rolling over their maturing commercial paper obligations, this facility should encourage investors to once again engage in term lending in the commercial paper market. Added investor demand should lower commercial paper rates from their current elevated levels and foster issuance of longer-term commercial paper. An improved commercial paper market will enhance the ability of financial intermediaries to accommodate the credit needs of businesses and households. (new window)

But, we should really END THE FED! I love that Ron Paul will speak the truth on foreign policy and other things at the debates, but his endless fascination with destroying our Central Bank disturbs me in so many ways considering how well they did in 2008.

GaryPDX: AdolfOliverPanties: GaryPDX: claiming that the government takeover of the insurer was unconstitutional.

Dude has a point. I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows seizing private Corporations. Oh, and there's no such thing as a "too big to fail" clause either.

Jeez, what a surprise. Gary once again sides with the douchebag and against the American people.

What a farking jerkoff.

No, I'm siding with the Constitution. There's no doubt this clown is a doochebag but that doesn't justify the government seizing private Corporations.

So you are equally opposed to the taking of private property when said property has been used or related to drug crimes right?

Magorn: Facts

NewportBarGuy: facts

You guys realize you're wasting your breath, right? You're better off telling a glacier not to melt, it's more likely to work.

NewportBarGuy: I love that Ron Paul will speak the truth on foreign policy and other things at the debates

RON PAUL is, on almost all things, a complete idiot.