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(MSNBC) Sad Mariners outfielder Greg Halman fatally stabbed, apparently by his brother   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 43
More: Sad, Greg Halman, Mariners, Dutchman, outfielders, Rotterdam, Mariners outfielder, outfielder Greg  
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1949 clicks; posted to Sports » on 21 Nov 2011 at 8:30 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



43 Comments   (+0 »)
   
 
2011-11-21 08:46:17 AM
shocking!! oh wait he was stabbed.

24yo, that sucks. plus his 22yo bro has to live with this the rest of his life.
 
2011-11-21 08:46:35 AM
Still better than playing for the Mariners.
 
2011-11-21 08:48:24 AM
Coffee Snob: Still better than playing for the Mariners.

oh snap! thats cold
 
2011-11-21 08:55:50 AM
It was the shrooms, man.
 
2011-11-21 09:06:14 AM
Alcohol. There is nothing it can't do.


But guns and pot are still bad right?
 
2011-11-21 09:20:05 AM
Coffee Snob: Still better than playing for the Mariners.

He played more in Tacoma than Seattle. So yeah.
 
2011-11-21 09:32:09 AM
Now he's an Angel.
 
2011-11-21 10:23:16 AM
In Holland, so must be weed related...
 
2011-11-21 10:28:19 AM
Goddamn.
 
2011-11-21 10:44:31 AM
Well, that's sad. Don't really know who this guy was, but he sounds like he was a cool dude. So...R.I.P.
 
2011-11-21 11:04:47 AM
First Bison Dele and now this guy. I'm glad I only have a sister, pretty sure I can take her in a fight.
 
2011-11-21 11:13:15 AM
What I've learned from Google News is that the Dutch word for "baseball player" is "Honkballer".

This is separate from Honkbag, which involves swatting a garbage bag full of squeaky toys and bicycle horns with wifflebats.
 
2011-11-21 11:23:28 AM
Pratty: Well, that's sad. Don't really know who this guy was, but he sounds like he was a cool dude. So...R.I.P.

He's been on the fringe of Mariners' prospects for a while, although in 2009 Baseball Prospectus rated him their #1 prospect. He was a slugging CF with a solid arm and enough speed to be a perennial 20/20 guy, but his game was always raw and unrefined-- a hackmaster hitter who didn't have great instincts on defense. (His minor league numbers are here.) He just broke into the big leagues last year for 35 games of part-time duty.

Sadly, he was a 'future potential' guy that would have been exciting to watch develop. Given time, he might have figured out the holes in his game and become a star-level player, or he might have flamed out. If you're a Mariners' fan, that's probably a player you'd really like to see on the 2012 roster, vs. a guy who is very likely to be sort of average.
 
2011-11-21 11:28:42 AM
Side note to this whole situation (which I don't mean to push aside since it's horrible): Why is it that the Netherlands seems to be the only European country that ever produces baseball players? What happened differently there from the rest of the continent?
 
2011-11-21 11:42:48 AM
DuffBeer: Now he's an Angel.

bestcoastbias.com
 
2011-11-21 11:49:45 AM
Geez, two sports-related death stories on the same day?

Tough day to be in sports.
 
2011-11-21 11:55:55 AM
ukexpat: In Holland, so must be weed related... Only if he stabbed the Dutchie in the left hand side.
 
2011-11-21 12:01:46 PM
chimp_ninja: He's been on the fringe of Mariners' prospects for a while, although in 2009 Baseball Prospectus rated him their #1 prospect.

Wow. I've been following Mariner prospect lists for many years now but had never seen one ranking him #1 or even as high as top 5 (and any top 5 rankings would have to have been more than two years ago, I'd have thought). I had a bit of a discussion with John Sickels about a year ago after Sickels left Halman off the organization's top 20 list -- I thought you could make an argument for Halman in the 15-20 range, but that's about as far as it would go. His downfall, of course, was strikeout and walk numbers that would have made Preston Wilson blush -- put him in for a full season and you'd pretty much be guaranteed 200 K's. I thought he was marginally interesting because his walk rate was increasing, still not to a level that I would call "good," but maybe indicating he was working on his approach and starting to get it. I could have seen something like a .240/.290/.440 line in his future, which, combined with some speed and the ability to play all three outfield positions pretty well, would have made an adequate fourth outfielder with interesting upside.

Nevertheless, after the team went out and acquired Trayvon Robinson and Casper Wells, and brought Michael Saunders around for another try in September, it was pretty clear Halman wasn't figuring prominently in the team's plans by the end of 2011. Still, this is very saddening.
 
2011-11-21 12:13:27 PM
FreakinB: Side note to this whole situation (which I don't mean to push aside since it's horrible): Why is it that the Netherlands seems to be the only European country that ever produces baseball players? What happened differently there from the rest of the continent?

I do believe that a lot of the Dutch MLB players come from Curacao, which being in the Caribbean is a hotbed of baseball. But as far as the country it seems that baseball is very popular there. Italy is another country that does produce some MLB players.
 
2011-11-21 12:31:23 PM
Harlaam is a tough neighborhood.
 
2011-11-21 12:38:30 PM
lacrossestar83: DuffBeer: Now he's an Angel.

[bestcoastbias.com image 456x297]


HA!!!
 
2011-11-21 12:43:02 PM
ongbok: FreakinB: Side note to this whole situation (which I don't mean to push aside since it's horrible): Why is it that the Netherlands seems to be the only European country that ever produces baseball players? What happened differently there from the rest of the continent?

I do believe that a lot of the Dutch MLB players come from Curacao, which being in the Caribbean is a hotbed of baseball. But as far as the country it seems that baseball is very popular there. Italy is another country that does produce some MLB players.


Nah I know about Curaçao, I'm leaving them out. But I find it weird that you'll occasionally see guys from the Netherlands (like Halman) but never from England or Germany or France or etc.

As for Italy, I thought their WBC teams were mostly Americans with Italian backgrounds.
 
2011-11-21 12:52:36 PM
FreakinB: Side note to this whole situation (which I don't mean to push aside since it's horrible): Why is it that the Netherlands seems to be the only European country that ever produces baseball players? What happened differently there from the rest of the continent?

Not sure if it totally explains it, but I think it was introduced there earlier than in most other European countries, plus there are still a lot of Dutch territories in the Caribbean (Aruba, the Antilles, etc) with strong baseball traditions.
According to wikipedia, a Dutch English teacher brought the game there in 1911 after a trip to the US. They've had a professional league since 1922.
Most countries in Europe didn't really have baseball exposure until after WW2, and most don't have professional leagues, although a few have had leagues start in the last 15-20 years. While it was introduced in the UK early, it just never caught on, although they apparently have a variation of it that's sort of a combination of baseball, rounders and a little bit of cricket.
 
2011-11-21 12:56:06 PM
chimp_ninja: What I've learned from Google News is that the Dutch word for "baseball player" is "Honkballer".

If the end result of this carnage has been to bring us this knowledge, this young man's sacrifice will not have been in vain.
 
2011-11-21 01:24:59 PM
ongbok I do believe that a lot of the Dutch MLB players come from Curacao, which being in the Caribbean is a hotbed of baseball.

yio left out "the women are hot there" always critical in a FARK thread-headline-wise I had "Mariner wasn't safe @ home" but modmins are celebrating Boring & Obvious Day
 
2011-11-21 02:31:17 PM
ongbok: Italy is another country that does produce some MLB players.

Halman's teammate Alex Liddi just debuted this season as the very first Italian player in MLB history, so no.
 
2011-11-21 02:38:48 PM
ongbok: Italy is another country that does produce some MLB players.

If by "some" you mean "exactly one, as of the end of the 2011 season," then that's correct (new window).

/he was Halman's teammate, too
 
2011-11-21 02:45:03 PM
Or I guess Kouvre covered that before I did.

/didn't seem like I waited 7 full minutes without refreshing but I guess I did
 
2011-11-21 02:47:40 PM
Kouvre: ongbok: Italy is another country that does produce some MLB players.

Halman's teammate Alex Liddi just debuted this season as the very first Italian player in MLB history, so no.


Ok. Maybe I should have said in the minors and not used MLB to cover all of baseball including the minors.
 
2011-11-21 03:02:26 PM
Not to threadjack, but as this is the only green baseball thread so far, could one of the kind TFers let us know if there's an AL MVP thread coming anytime soon?
 
2011-11-21 03:09:25 PM
jdjoker: Not to threadjack, but as this is the only green baseball thread so far, could one of the kind TFers let us know if there's an AL MVP thread coming anytime soon?

Yes, there is a thread that has been greenlit that will hit the sports tab for liters at 6:15 ET.
 
2011-11-21 03:17:37 PM
mjoven1975:
jdjoker: Not to threadjack, but as this is the only green baseball thread so far, could one of the kind TFers let us know if there's an AL MVP thread coming anytime soon?

Yes, there is a thread that has been greenlit that will hit the sports tab for liters at 6:15 ET.


Thanks!
 
2011-11-21 03:22:59 PM
jdjoker: mjoven1975:
jdjoker: Not to threadjack, but as this is the only green baseball thread so far, could one of the kind TFers let us know if there's an AL MVP thread coming anytime soon?

Yes, there is a thread that has been greenlit that will hit the sports tab for liters at 6:15 ET.

Thanks!


Verlander won the award... talk about it. Pretty ridiculous a guy who's impact is felt once a week can win the award.
 
2011-11-21 04:04:52 PM
neuroflare: jdjoker: mjoven1975:
jdjoker: Not to threadjack, but as this is the only green baseball thread so far, could one of the kind TFers let us know if there's an AL MVP thread coming anytime soon?

Yes, there is a thread that has been greenlit that will hit the sports tab for liters at 6:15 ET.

Thanks!

Verlander won the award... talk about it. Pretty ridiculous a guy who's impact is felt once a week can win the award.



Look at it this way: A hitter hits maybe 4-6 times a game. That's 4-6 plate appearances he "impacts." A pitcher pitches to EVERY hitter for usually 6 or so innings. That's 18 plate appearances (at least) he "impacts" in one game. A relief pitcher should NOT get the MVP, a starting pitcher can and should.

\Yes, the DH IS the greatest rule ever. I wan't hitters, not belly itchers.
 
2011-11-21 04:09:00 PM
Playing music too loud? That's a stabbin'.
 
2011-11-21 04:36:13 PM
Super Chronic: chimp_ninja: He's been on the fringe of Mariners' prospects for a while, although in 2009 Baseball Prospectus rated him their #1 prospect.

Wow. I've been following Mariner prospect lists for many years now but had never seen one ranking him #1 or even as high as top 5 (and any top 5 rankings would have to have been more than two years ago, I'd have thought). I had a bit of a discussion with John Sickels about a year ago after Sickels left Halman off the organization's top 20 list -- I thought you could make an argument for Halman in the 15-20 range, but that's about as far as it would go. His downfall, of course, was strikeout and walk numbers that would have made Preston Wilson blush -- put him in for a full season and you'd pretty much be guaranteed 200 K's. I thought he was marginally interesting because his walk rate was increasing, still not to a level that I would call "good," but maybe indicating he was working on his approach and starting to get it. I could have seen something like a .240/.290/.440 line in his future, which, combined with some speed and the ability to play all three outfield positions pretty well, would have made an adequate fourth outfielder with interesting upside.

Nevertheless, after the team went out and acquired Trayvon Robinson and Casper Wells, and brought Michael Saunders around for another try in September, it was pretty clear Halman wasn't figuring prominently in the team's plans by the end of 2011. Still, this is very saddening.


His value seemed to "spike" before 2009. As you note, his contact numbers looked grim, and he only improved slowly. People were hoping for leaps and bounds, given how athletic the guy was.

At some level, you want your farm system packed with "roll the dice guys", though. You only have 25 MLB roster spots, and even on the Mariners only a few are really up for grabs each spring. Since you have 100+ minor leaguers somewhere in your system, only a few of which are highly likely to become MLB stars, you'd ideally want the rest to be:

1) "AAAA": Guys who can fill in for injured MLB guys, and do at least a "meh" job starting as needed.
2) "Silver bullet": Guys who do one thing really, really well, and have a potential to be a role player. A shortstop with an awesome glove and 30+ steals speed but no bat is a classic example. You wouldn't start him, but that's a good guy to have off the bench.
3) "Roll the dice". Guys who aren't in high demand because they have a high ceiling, but a low probability of reaching it. You can get these guys without giving up the resources you'd need to grab a Bryce Harper type. If they pan out, you got a MLB player on the cheap. If they don't, you probably spent a couple hundred thousand dollars over a couple years to figure that out, and the market will bear that as long as you occasionally luck out.

#3s also help with marketing. A team full of #1s (Hi, most of the current Mariners offense!) is excruciating to watch. A team full of #3s will probably generate a lot of exciting moments in between the "WTF?" experiences.

Too many teams load up on #1s, because coaches and managers tend to be risk-averse. Going 81-81 doesn't get you fired unless you're in a very competitive market, but if gamble a lot and go 96-66 one year and 66-96 the next, there's a good chance you're fired after that second year.

See also: NFL coaches' love of short field goals and punting on 4th and short. Most coach to avoid an embarrassing worst-case scenario, not maximize their chance of winning.
 
2011-11-21 04:52:05 PM
chimp_ninja: At some level, you want your farm system packed with "roll the dice guys", though. You only have 25 MLB roster spots, and even on the Mariners only a few are really up for grabs each spring. Since you have 100+ minor leaguers somewhere in your system, only a few of which are highly likely to become MLB stars, you'd ideally want the rest to be:

1) "AAAA": Guys who can fill in for injured MLB guys, and do at least a "meh" job starting as needed.
2) "Silver bullet": Guys who do one thing really, really well, and have a potential to be a role player. A shortstop with an awesome glove and 30+ steals speed but no bat is a classic example. You wouldn't start him, but that's a good guy to have off the bench.
3) "Roll the dice". Guys who aren't in high demand because they have a high ceiling, but a low probability of reaching it. You can get these guys without giving up the resources you'd need to grab a Bryce Harper type. If they pan out, you got a MLB player on the cheap. If they don't, you probably spent a couple hundred thousand dollars over a couple years to figure that out, and the market will bear that as long as you occasionally luck out.

#3s also help with marketing. A team full of #1s (Hi, most of the current Mariners offense!) is excruciating to watch. A team full of #3s will probably generate a lot of exciting moments in between the "WTF?" experiences.


Sounds about right. The thing is, the current major league Mariners' roster and the farm system are two totally different things. The system is loaded with #3s, starting with the once-ballyhooed Carlos Triunfel (who still may turn into something), Carlos Peguero (whom we saw in the majors with dismal results in 2011), the aforementioned Alex Liddi, Johermyn Chavez, James Jones, Mario Martinez, Jharmidy DeJesus, Guillermo Pimentel, Jetsy Extrano, Esteilon Peguero (no relation to Carlos that I know of), Ramon Morla, the list goes on. Look those guys up on any organizational prospect list and they'll all say "toolsy as all fark." Places like here (new window), for example. Oh yeah, pretty much Michael Saunders too, although he finally seemed to put it all together at one point in the minors (though not yet in the majors). And now Trayvon Robinson. The hope is that just a couple of them pan out in the long run. Halman might have been the most extreme case of all of them.

The only real "AAAA" position to come out of the system in the last couple of years was Mike Carp, I think. Who, by the way, was arguably the team's best hitter this past year. Maybe Kyle Seager is in that category as well.
 
2011-11-21 05:52:53 PM
So he was (severely) scratched from the lineup?
 
2011-11-21 06:06:20 PM
Too bad. He was a cut above the rest.
 
2011-11-21 07:02:19 PM
Never thought Halman would be sliced from the roster.

A ha a ha a ha ha ha...
 
2011-11-21 08:04:53 PM
Boy, Christmas is going to be awkward...
 
2011-11-21 11:39:45 PM
Coffee Snob: Still better than playing for the Mariners.

You're a douchebag. Your parents must be so proud...
 
2011-11-22 01:33:48 AM
Kouvre: ongbok: Italy is another country that does produce some MLB players.

Halman's teammate Alex Liddi just debuted this season as the very first Italian player in MLB history, so no.


And here I was, thinking (hoping) that the first Italian player in the big leagues was going to actually be named Craig Italiano (new window).
 
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