way south

Have you ever noticed though that dissent and uprising begin with the smallest incidents in history? Anger, resentment, social disorder. It's built with the brick and mortar of marginalization. It doesn't just appear. What's happening right now shouldn't be ignored, or put down. The public and the politicians should pay attention to the underlying message of "we're tired of being ignored, and tired of being marginalized". Obviously there's two ways this will head, and hopefully some official acting on behalf of the state doesn't lose their heads and fire into the crowds. And demeaning the protestors by calling them hippies, losers, Liberals, etc is a typical. De-humanize the "enemy" and it makes it easier to see a us and them. Big mistake. Same mistakes being played out time after time.

2wolves: This text is now purple: 2wolves: dstanley: Dictatorial_Flair: "a massive 'armored personnel carrier.' Or, in laymen's terms, a tank."

Or in accurate terms frequently used by laymen who aren't retarded, an armored personnel carrier.

*ak47glock.jpg*

Hate to burst your bubble but to a "layman" that's a tank. To anyone with any combat arms military experience it's not a tank.

Tanks have treads, dude. Even children know that.

So do bulldozers. Dude.

Exactly....

HotWingConspiracy: Boxingoutsider: HotWingConspiracy: Boxingoutsider: I was with a group of working class men on Saturday. The kind of people who are routinely screwed over by corporations or big entities. Not in a direct way, but often indirectly screwed. And these people to a man were laughing at those OWS guys getting sprayed with pepper spray and saying "occupy a job, like the rest of us hard working people do".

Right, go to work and STFU. How's that working out?

Sitting around in camps in public spaces doesn't do much to endear you to working class people who struggle every day to raise families and hold onto jobs.

OWS has lost the PR battle.

It's still growing, and judging by the fact that lobbyists are looking for cash to discredit OWS, I would say the "PR" battle is going just fine.

It's all relative. Within the crowd you run with, it's probably the biggest thing ever with everyone sharing updates from occupy sites around the US. For the vast majority of Americans with real life concerns and something to lose, they've lost the battle already.

This would be why you fail. You're the one with tunnel vision. You don't know anything about me or who I interact with.

It's like the Tea Party for the left. Just like the Tea Party felt like they were changing the world and taking back their country, OWS feels the same. At least the Tea Party actually did influence policy though. They were smart and organized and had a clear message that resonated. I'm sure someone will trot out corporate support, and that's probably true. But either way, they were effective and got people into positions of power and influenced policy.

It helps that they are all republicans and their top "grassroots" groups are all run by former GOP money men. The teabaggers represent one faction of an internal GOP struggle, nothing more.

Show me any concrete tangible way that OWS has even slightly influenced the policies they claim to hate and claim to want to influence.

It will take some time, as they aren't interested in participating in a rigged game. This is an actual anti-corruption movement, not a fake one.

So no evidence of any change at all, after 60 days and millions of man hours spent on the endeavor. That's some fine lobbying work there Lou! You've got an organization with manpower and dedication that other organizations would kill to have 10% of, and yet you've accomplished next to nothing.

Imagine how ineffective you have to be to take a huge incredibly dedicate and widespread group of people and have them accomplish nothing while using up millions of man hours of time. You couldn't dream of a less effective movement. Usually movements have a small core of very dedicated people who do 98% of the work while the rest do nothing or just sit at home and support them with the occaisonal check designed to make them feel good about contributing. This movement is the exact opposite. Tons of highly dedicated people and a few people at home sending goods making themselves feel better.

Pretty sure it was discovered over 50 years ago how to disable a tank with a glass bottle and some other stuff in it

genner: 2wolves: This text is now purple: 2wolves: dstanley: Dictatorial_Flair: "a massive 'armored personnel carrier.' Or, in laymen's terms, a tank."

Or in accurate terms frequently used by laymen who aren't retarded, an armored personnel carrier.

*ak47glock.jpg*

Hate to burst your bubble but to a "layman" that's a tank. To anyone with any combat arms military experience it's not a tank.

Tanks have treads, dude. Even children know that.

So do bulldozers. Dude.

Exactly....
[www.williammaloney.com image 476x300]


Exactly...

You know, its REALLY hard to tell who's side the police/authorities/monied are on

serial_crusher: The police department's website refers to Tampa's big blue vehicle, complete with logos of "our sponsors," as "virtually unstoppable."

How tiny are those logos? I don't see any of them in the photo.

Don't try to inject logic into this. They want their masturbatory fantasy of corporate sponsered fascists to be true. Their entire world view depends on viewing all cops as just overweight, overpaid cowardly pigs who like to beat up on people for fun.

jakomo002: Boxingoutsider: We like guns, trucks, big tits, big steaks, big sporting events, etc. It's how we are. Like it or lump it.We are fundamentally different than other people. No other country on earth is comparable really to the US in terms of our culture and our values. Maybe England, but even they are more responsible and more low key than we are.We're the newest great nation on earth and from the second we were founded we were different. It really is just that simple.

It's called hyper-materialism and it's fine when you're swimming in money. But it's ultimately unsustainable. Every single empire in the world is proof of it.

Eventually you need to tell your kids that they can't have everything they want, and you hope that the tantrum isn't too bad. The good news, I guess, is that you can tell your kids all the cool stuff you USED to have back in the day.

The thing is, I won't be the one doing that, it'll be my great great great great grandchildren.

Better to live at the peak of the Roman Empire than to not. Better to live in the US at the beginning of it's decline than to not.

We'll decline, and still be more powerful than any nation on earth by a wide margin (for a long long time to come), with more freedom than most any nation on earth, and we'll still be the beacon that people flock to from slums all over the world (probably 300-400 years at least on this one).

That's just how it is.

Boxingoutsider: Fark_Guy_Rob: Boxingoutsider: Fark_Guy_Rob: Boxingoutsider: Fark_Guy_Rob: This is going to sound stupid and off-topic, but I really think everyone should spend at least a handful of months living in another country. Preferably one pretty far from home.

You'll learn that many of the things you've been told 'need' to be a certain way, don't. You'll see that in this country country they don't even have X or Y and they are still safe, they still have regular, happy, lives. You realize that a lot of what you thought was needed, is actually just the way it happens to be, and if you look at it from that perspective it is pretty easy to see how individuals who benefit from it would go out of their way to make everyone think it's needed.

I've been to countries where the police *don't* have tanks. Hell, they don't even carry guns. And it's amazing how different people feel about the police over there. There isn't this antagonistic 'F*** DA POLICE' attitude because the police aren't going around like pissed off high school jocks with something to prove.

'Cops need all that stuff, because without it, bad guys would rape your Mom and steal your candy!' is what I was raised to believe. But it's simply not true. We're not safer with it.

Those other countries aren't the US and A. They didn't need to conquer the west. They didn't need to create the iconic image of the Cowboy with the pistol on his belt. They didn't create the greatest military in the history of mankind. They didn't need to win WWII and then keep the Soviets from overrunning eastern Europe.

Be realistic. The USA loves guns. If you don't like that, move to these other wonderful countries. But if you stay here understand that geographically, like 98% of the surface area of the US is inhabited by people who love guns, own guns, shoot guns and support gun rights.

Those other countries don't love guns like we do. They don't own guns like we do. They aren't as extreme as Americans are. We don't do things halfway, we do it all the way, and that includes gun crime unfortunately. And it's not going to change, ever.

Either understand the ethos of the United States or move.

First, I don't live in the United States. So ummm, why should I move again?
Second, I've owned a gun in the US and enjoyed shooting it even with the ammo costs. I'm not anti-gun. I'm pro-gun.
Third, individuals in other countries can legally own and operate firearms without their police carrying handguns. And that doesn't even touch on the military arsenal that police forces in the US have.

Those countries aren't the US. We don't do moderation, we don't do things half way. We do them to the extreme.

Our police need weapons, it's just that simple. We have a weapon for basically every man woman and child in the entire country, and we're a people who gets angry and settles disputes with firearms sometimes. It's just how we are. Either understand that, or complain about it. It's not about the guns, it's about the people. Having lots of guns makes it easier, but americans like to hurt each other. We're a violent people.

That's a weak argument. 'We are fundamentally different from other people, so we can't learn from the success or failures of other people'. I'm sorry, I simply don't accept these assumptions. Everyone in the US, outside of Native Americans, are essentially a few generations away from being something else.

What is different is our culture and our society. And those are not rigid things. They can change, they do change.

We define success for much of the world. We're an arrogant freedom loving people. We love guns. It's just how it is.

Look at our land mass. Look at the red vs blue county map in the US from the last election. Hell, look at it from the one before last. You'll see that overwhelmingly (from a perspective of land mass covered) Americans love guns and are conservative.

The weak argument is trying to somehow say that the culture of the US can be changed easily. No country's culture can be changed easily. That's the nature of having a la ...

I never said it was easy to change a country's culture or values. I said it's possible to have an effective (even more effective) police force *without* the police becoming an armed military unit. I have said that I *like* guns and have owned one and enjoyed shooting it.

I still feel like you haven't presented any compelling evidence for why American's are fundamentally different than other people, other than you asserting that it is so.

beesknees: NYC: 11/13/2011 - Occupier Slugs Police Officer


bwahahahahaah

please, stop, you're killing me

Jack Black 62: NEDM: Jack Black 62: NEDM: Jack Black 62:
I would love to see some jack booted thugs trying to get firearms at the weapons stores around here. They would be laughed out of the store.

Really. If some police ran into the store, pointed at the armed and armored madmen shooting at anything that moves with automatic weapons and said "You've got to give us better guns! Our shiat isn't even scratching them!", they'd be laughed out of the store?

Yes.

Well then. Care to explain why, other than "Lol jackbooted pigs"?

People around here do not take kindly to thieves, no matter what type of uniform they wear. Now, if they came in to purchase them and paid cash, it would be a different story. The JBTs in LA just went to the store and took them.

As I remember it, the officers didn't just take them, the store owner let them borrow the guns. The guns were returned after the shootout and subsequently auctioned off with the proceeds donated to the LAPD Memorial Fund.

CruiserTwelve: TheOmni: There's a serious problem with the militarization of our police force.

Agreed.

This.

Kibbler: It's not a tank, it's an armored personnel carrier. A tank is an armored, tracked combat vehicle with a turret (usually rotating) equipped with one or more guns and is intended for military combat.

I have deep concerns about police forces having any kind of armored vehicle. However there is cause for police forces to have these vehicles. I believe it was in California some years ago that two bank robbers wore body armor, and carried very high-powered rifles, and were shot a couple dozen times apiece by policemen, whose standard-issue weapons were useless against the armor. Finally it was a police sniper, I think, who scored headshots and killed them. It was a very frightening day. Then there have been the incidents such as the guy who stole an actual tank and went on a rampage, or the guy who spent two years adding armor plating to his huge bulldozer and went on a rampage.

(Admittedly both the tank and the bulldozer probably would have rolled over and crushed this thing, and if the tank--it was an Abrams--had been firing rounds, one would have torn this little APC open. Its armor is probably minimal, enough to withstand small arms fire at best.)

We can have armored vehicles in the police force to deal with things like this, or we can have the military respond--the military is even scarier in my opinion.

Having said that, I'll say this: any police force that uses an armored vehicle for crowd control is practically posting a sign that says, "We cordially invite the citizenry to riot and attack us." There should be extremely strict and severe rules about when vehicles like this can be used, including the stipulation that, if the vehicle even appears on the street outside of the rules, the police chief gets his ass fired immediately. The very last thing we need is a police force that combines the trigger-happy pepper-spraying mentality of UC Davis with a vehicle that can turn a dozen human beings into tomato paste in three seconds. A single incident like that will take this entire country down a very ugly path instantly, and it's not something we can afford.

I am not an expert in riots or crowd control, but what seems to me is that riots need momentum and continuity to build up steam. If an APC can act as an anchor point to break up the momentum of a riot, my guess is that it would make it easier to disperse the mob.

LemSkroob: You know, its REALLY hard to tell who's side the police/authorities/monied are on

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 497x327]

Or maybe the fact that the tea party brought guns has something to do with it. Riot gear doesn't exactly make you immune to bullets, it just decreases your chances of being killed by one.

What if the OWS camps each had a guard consisting of a bunch of armed veterans?

I never said it was easy to change a country's culture or values. I said it's possible to have an effective (even more effective) police force *without* the police becoming an armed military unit. I have said that I *like* guns and have owned one and enjoyed shooting it.

I still feel like you haven't presented any compelling evidence for why American's are fundamentally different than other people, other than you asserting that it is so.

I think the evidence for us being fundamentally different is there for all to see if you do comparisons vs other countries.

For instance : Vehicles.

The vehicles that americans drive are not found anywhere else in the world really. At least not in such numbers. Nowhere else in the world do people drive large SUV's by themselves carrying nothing so often as we do. Nowhere else in the world are horsepower numbers so high for basically all vehicles. Elsewhere you can have vans with 4 cylinders that sell incredibly well. They would never sell in the US because we like power. We were the world's inspiration for cup holders. Nobody else had lots of cup holders in vehicles. You can't find a vehicle in the US now without a cup holder.

Food.

I've only been a few places, but I don't think anyone eats like we do. Huge portions, over size, over salted. With large drinks on the side that are over sized and over caloried. Even places that like rich food like France or Italy don't eat anywhere near the same way we do.

Guns.

We have more guns per capita than most any nation on earth. We LOVE them. And not just to sit in our closet like Sweden or Finland. We like to shoot them. Often times at each other, which leads to.

Violence.

I think it's safe to say we are easily the most violent "civilized" nation on earth. We like to hurt each other. We like to express our anger physically.

We're just different. Partly due to huge open spaces. Partly due to incredible freedom. Partly due to wealth. Partly due to arrogance. Partly due to intelligence. Partly due to power.

Oznog: [www.co-optimus.com image 600x321]

The party doesn't start until the cops break out the Mechs!

PEPPER SPRAY, 1500L
EXTENDED RANGE CLUSTER TASER, 1MIN COOLDOWN
RIOT SHIELD, IMPROVED
DEPLETED URANIUM BATON, LENGTH 10M
UNPANTSING DEVICE, 30 SEC COOLDOWN

Still working on my loadout...

HEAT LEVEL CRITICAL, SHUTTING DOWN...

someahole:
What if the OWS camps each had a guard consisting of a bunch of armed veterans?

And they were all riding Battle Cats from He-Man!

I betcha the bullies from sixth grade 1% would never see that coming!

someahole: LemSkroob: You know, its REALLY hard to tell who's side the police/authorities/monied are on

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 497x327]

Or maybe the fact that the tea party brought guns has something to do with it. Riot gear doesn't exactly make you immune to bullets, it just decreases your chances of being killed by one.

What if the OWS camps each had a guard consisting of a bunch of armed veterans?

Riot gear is typically foam padding, not the heavier kevlar/metal armor. The shields might be somewhat bullet proof, but the metal shields that SWAT teams use are most likely too heavy for riot police, who carry clear plastic/plexiglass shields. The riot gear is designed to protect from blows from thrown objects, not from bullets.

beesknees: Maybe they might need a tank.

lots of text, most of which shows the OWS types were the victims (of theft, rape etc).
and most of the OWS who've been arrested have been arrested for non violent protests
no mention of the numerous examples of police brutality and outright lies (like the one who claimed he was attacked but video shows he showed a protester off a planter w-o provocation)



Maybe they might need fire hoses. And dogs too.

Boxingoutsider: So no evidence of any change at all, after 60 days and millions of man hours spent on the endeavor. That's some fine lobbying work there Lou!

They aren't lobbyists. Are you dense? I suppose you and your crew of out of work elitists could have had everything fixed by now, right? 60 days is nothing. What the fark did the teabaggers you praise get done in 60 days? A couple of hate rallies and filling Sara's pockets.

You've got an organization with manpower and dedication that other organizations would kill to have 10% of, and yet you've accomplished next to nothing.

You're switching gears here, before they were all lazy.

Imagine how ineffective you have to be to take a huge incredibly dedicate and widespread group of people and have them accomplish nothing while using up millions of man hours of time. You couldn't dream of a less effective movement. Usually movements have a small core of very dedicated people who do 98% of the work while the rest do nothing or just sit at home and support them with the occaisonal check designed to make them feel good about contributing. This movement is the exact opposite. Tons of highly dedicated people and a few people at home sending goods making themselves feel better.

Again, you're having trouble keeping your narrative straight. Pick an argument and stick with it. "These are the most hard working dedicated lazy people on the planet" isn't something I can address, it's farking nonsense.

someahole: LemSkroob: You know, its REALLY hard to tell who's side the police/authorities/monied are on

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 497x327]

Or maybe the fact that the tea party brought guns has something to do with it. Riot gear doesn't exactly make you immune to bullets, it just decreases your chances of being killed by one.

What if the OWS camps each had a guard consisting of a bunch of armed veterans?

And when you cross the point between peaceful protest and armed insurrection, that's when shiat gets real.

If you want to imagine how bad the cops could be, you don't even want to think about a bunch of pissed off, underpaid and tired young men in actual armored fighting vehicles and tanks, who have been unleashed with a mandate of "Keep the peace, and bring things under control" with a declaration of martial law.

The Military is not a jackbooted thug. It's a proverbial atomic bomb to the nuts.

Jack Black 62: jack booted thugs

You know, I'm generally against the way the police system operates and police brutality and all of that. But holy hell, repeating that phrase doesn't help make a point. It makes you sound like an idiot.

Although from the little I've seen, I'm pretty sure you're just a clumsy troll who gets bites in your flailing, I am constantly surprised by people.

mrshowrules: Boxingoutsider: It's like the Tea Party for the left. Just like the Tea Party felt like they were changing the world and taking back their country, OWS feels the same. At least the Tea Party actually did influence policy though. They were smart and organized and had a clear message that resonated. I'm sure someone will trot out corporate support, and that's probably true. But either way, they were effective and got people into positions of power and influenced policy. Show me any concrete tangible way that OWS has even slightly influenced the policies they claim to hate and claim to want to influence.

Let's take just one issue (albeit a main one). Increased taxes of the rich / the rich are farking over average Americans.

You could say people position are somewhere in this range more or less:

1) adamantly against more taxes / the rich are the job creators
2) against it / if you raise taxes on the rich it will hurt the economy
3) not sure / concerned that the rich may be exploiting the system
4) support higher taxes / rich are exploiting the system
5) pissed off or mobilized for higher taxes on the rich / rich have been raping the US economy

In just 2 months, I think OWS has created a fundamental shift. I was at 4 and not I'm at 5. I think Americans have all shifted by one. The people adamantly against tax increases even for more tax cuts have toned down the rhetoric. The people against it are now questioning it. The people who were neutral are starting to think the Buffet rule at least makes sense and many Liberals like myself are just awakening to the idea that they have been completely played as a sucker in the largest extraction of wealth in history.

What the Tea Party accomplished was a valiant final defense of the same old supply-side ideology, and in about a 18 months regaining one half of one arm of the Government. In two months, the OWS has completely changed the National discussion and the narrative of the Tea Party is complete gibberish now. I'm not sure what the OWS will accomplish but the only thing I know for sure is that Tea Party will be meaningless after this.

Sorry, but soft goals "changing national discussion" is trumped every time by hard goals "electing people to office who support your positions".

"Changing national discussion" really only occurs within people who are concerned about political issues (relatively small percentage) and doesn't actually do anything to advance your goals.

You say the Tea Party will be meaningless. Yet it's the Tea Party that's HEAVILY influencing the debt discussions. The OWS movement isn't in the halls of power influencing this debt deal. No politicians are beholden to OWS. No politicians live in fear of OWS. They live in fear of the Tea Party and act accordingly. You want a study on a small amount of people influencing HUGELY important policies, the Tea Party taking over the debt deal is the ultimate example of that. It sickens me, but it's the gods honest truth and OWS needs to face that.

I'm pretty sure that 99% of OWS people would LOVE to have the influence that the Tea Party had, but they can't bring themselves to make it happen. I'm sure OWS would LOVE to get some of "their" people into office. Because that's how policies change.

"Changing the discussion" sounds nice and it makes a good talking point for OWS supporters, but it does NOTHING to actually change things, because those people who change things (especially as regards banking and political corruption) aren't influenced by "national discussion". They just aren't. Either hit them where they live, or you're just nattering nabobs of negativism.

Submitted First With a Better Headline: Jack Black 62: jack booted thugs

You know, I'm generally against the way the police system operates and police brutality and all of that. But holy hell, repeating that phrase doesn't help make a point. It makes you sound like an idiot.

Although from the little I've seen, I'm pretty sure you're just a clumsy troll who gets bites in your flailing, I am constantly surprised by people.

Don't be. I know people who continuously maintain that level of discourse when discussing the police.

NEDM: Submitted First With a Better Headline: Jack Black 62: jack booted thugs

You know, I'm generally against the way the police system operates and police brutality and all of that. But holy hell, repeating that phrase doesn't help make a point. It makes you sound like an idiot.

Although from the little I've seen, I'm pretty sure you're just a clumsy troll who gets bites in your flailing, I am constantly surprised by people.

Don't be. I know people who continuously maintain that level of discourse when discussing the police.

Many people do hate honesty.

/for the confused

Jack Black 62:
Many people do hate honesty.

Man, showing up two hours later after turning tail and running just makes you look pathetic.

beesknees: Maybe they might need a tank.
Madison, WI: 10-27-2011 - Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation

I should think the face shields on their riot helmets would be sufficient protection for that contingency.

TheShavingofOccam123: [i449.photobucket.com image 452x640]

/for the confused

Although one could argue that adding a recoilless rifle to the M113 would transform it into a close-support AFV and thus, a 'tank'. Fark it, people should just drop the word 'tank' altogether and go with AFV.

HotWingConspiracy: Boxingoutsider: So no evidence of any change at all, after 60 days and millions of man hours spent on the endeavor. That's some fine lobbying work there Lou!

They aren't lobbyists. Are you dense? I suppose you and your crew of out of work elitists could have had everything fixed by now, right? 60 days is nothing. What the fark did the teabaggers you praise get done in 60 days? A couple of hate rallies and filling Sara's pockets.

You've got an organization with manpower and dedication that other organizations would kill to have 10% of, and yet you've accomplished next to nothing.

You're switching gears here, before they were all lazy.

Imagine how ineffective you have to be to take a huge incredibly dedicate and widespread group of people and have them accomplish nothing while using up millions of man hours of time. You couldn't dream of a less effective movement. Usually movements have a small core of very dedicated people who do 98% of the work while the rest do nothing or just sit at home and support them with the occaisonal check designed to make them feel good about contributing. This movement is the exact opposite. Tons of highly dedicated people and a few people at home sending goods making themselves feel better.

Again, you're having trouble keeping your narrative straight. Pick an argument and stick with it. "These are the most hard working dedicated lazy people on the planet" isn't something I can address, it's farking nonsense.

I only praise the accomplishments of the Tea Party. Hate it as much as I do, they got stuff done. And quickly. In one election cycle they had a HUGE influence. Think about it. From nothing to getting people elected in a mid term, lots of people. That's a big deal. It would be the equivalent of OWS getting 20-30 people elected in the next election that are directly beholden to them. Think that will happen? Where are the OWS candidates? What is their platform? How will they influence policy once they are elected?

The anti-nuke movement weren't lobbyists, but they figured out quickly how to lobby. The peace movement in Vietnam wasn't lobbyists, but they figured it out quickly too. Tea Party were palling around with lobbyists, and they got it done. And their local movements (the ones not under the thumb of Fox or whoever) are still highly organized and get things done locally.

I didn't say they were lazy, I said they had nothing to lose. Going to a protest every day isn't lazy. It's just a misuse of very very very valuable resources. No protest movement has any resource more valuable than dedicated man hours. There's nothing that can replace the value of a supremely dedicated worked to your cause. Someone who will spend hours stuffing envelopes in a basement. Someone who will go out in the cold and staple rally notices all over town. Someone who will face 90% rejection and go door to door canvasing. Someone who will go through reams and reams of donor names cold calling. That's the ultimate resource for protest/political movements. It gets people elected, it gets things done. What helped Obama get elected was tons and tons of dedicated kids manning phones and calling and going door to door and fundraising.

They are not lazy at all as it pertains to this movement. And their passion and fire and energy is being wasted, sitting around in parks. They should be in offices doing work for the movement, as that would gain them FAR more traction than sitting in tents.

This is all indisputable by the way. Sitting outside might make you feel good an feel like part of something, but it doesn't influence policy.

LemSkroob
You know, its REALLY hard to tell who's side the police/authorities/monied are on
Americans exercising their second amendment rights are nobody to mess with.

Latinwolf: You sound white.



Florp: So what is the deal with people from under the orange sun? They're all... [ funny walk] But us guys from under the red sun, we're like... [Cool walk] Right? Am I right?

Fluorescent Testicle: I have to admit, I'm hopelessly confused here...

Why in the tapdancing fark would any local police force need a tank, ever?

To kill people with a six-star wanted level.

Wanted for questioning:

/hot

NEDM: Jack Black 62:
Many people do hate honesty.

Man, showing up two hours later after turning tail and running just makes you look pathetic.

Turning tail and running? Really? Care to elaborate on that or is this just you being childish again?

M18 Hellcat:

WWII AFV. 76 mm gun with HVAP rounds and could move at up to 60 mph. With only 1 inch of armor, they succeeded in flanking Nazi tanks because the enemy tanks couldn't traverse their guns to match the M18's turning speeds.

Now that's AFV porn.

badhatharry:: Cops have changed.

You think????






100 years ago, the "job" was a lot more dangerous than it is today, by a wide margin. So why the need for all the gear? Its a physical AND mental separation between the public and the police. It allows the officers to feel they are different from the public, and that mentally and emotionally frees them to do horrible things without feeling bad about it.

Same thing happened in the army. It was a lot harder to put your humanity aside when you had to run up and stab someone with a sword than it does to plink them with a rifle from 100 yards away.

indarwinsshadow: way south

Have you ever noticed though that dissent and uprising begin with the smallest incidents in history? Anger, resentment, social disorder. It's built with the brick and mortar of marginalization. It doesn't just appear. What's happening right now shouldn't be ignored, or put down. The public and the politicians should pay attention to the underlying message of "we're tired of being ignored, and tired of being marginalized". Obviously there's two ways this will head, and hopefully some official acting on behalf of the state doesn't lose their heads and fire into the crowds. And demeaning the protestors by calling them hippies, losers, Liberals, etc is a typical. De-humanize the "enemy" and it makes it easier to see a us and them. Big mistake. Same mistakes being played out time after time.

Im not ignoring it or putting it down.
I'm just saying that our problems and thier problems are not the same. Not even close.

It would be an insult to people in other nations if we burned down our democracy over student loans and banking shenanigans while they are fighting for social equality and the right to not be stoned to death.
I think we need to put OWS in perspective.

NEDM: Jack Black 62:
Many people do hate honesty.

Man, showing up two hours later after turning tail and running just makes you look pathetic.

Why do you even engage in conversation with him? He just comes in and threadshiats with ridiculous comments and arguments so that he can go and later brag to his family, because you know he doesn't have any friends, that he owned somebody on the internet in an argument. And when he is describing to his family this epic ownege he laid on somebody on the internet, they all just quietly smile at him and nod in approval and ignore him until he stops talking about it or until he storms out of the room stomping and knocking everything over because nobody will listen to him.

My advice is to just ignore Jack Black 62 because he is silly and ignorant. You won't get any meaningful discussion out of him, he will just go round and round with the same BS to keep up an argument just for the sakes of arguing.

ongbok: NEDM: Jack Black 62:
Many people do hate honesty.

Man, showing up two hours later after turning tail and running just makes you look pathetic.

Why do you even engage in conversation with him? He just comes in and threadshiats with ridiculous comments and arguments so that he can go and later brag to his family, because you know he doesn't have any friends, that he owned somebody on the internet in an argument. And when he is describing to his family this epic ownege he laid on somebody on the internet, they all just quietly smile at him and nod in approval and ignore him until he stops talking about it or until he storms out of the room stomping and knocking everything over because nobody will listen to him.

My advice is to just ignore Jack Black 62 because he is silly and ignorant. You won't get any meaningful discussion out of him, he will just go round and round with the same BS to keep up an argument just for the sakes of arguing.

Don't quit your day job.

It's so cold in the T...in fact its freezing. Yes, the T...it's cold in there. Put the lotion in the basket.

Boxingoutsider: This is all indisputable by the way

I'm disputing it.