FARK.com: (6748989) Sun goes up. Sun goes down. Sun goes up. Sun goes down... but when, exactly?

		Sun goes up. Sun goes down. Sun goes up. Sun goes down... but when, exactly? (blogs.discovermagazine.com)		52
		More: Interesting, South Pole, crouch

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52 Comments (+0 »)

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ArkAngel

2011-11-20 01:27:56 PM

Night. After all, it goes out every night in Flagstaff.

Spad31

2011-11-20 01:39:57 PM

You can't explain that.

John Paul Jones

2011-11-20 01:42:02 PM

Is it just me, or are Stephen Fry, Jeremy Clarkson, and Jimmy Page turning into the same person?

jehovahs witness protection

2011-11-20 01:42:33 PM

It happens every day and I don't know why.

Flappyhead

2011-11-20 01:52:27 PM

youcan'texplainthat.jpg

ZAZ

2011-11-20 01:53:45 PM

Sun comes up, it's Tuesday morning.

LDM90

2011-11-20 02:03:55 PM

So the atmosphere distorts the sun's image...but doesn't make the moon look bigger on the horizon?

I've always been a little skeptical of the official astronomers' explanation.

/I said a little skeptical, not fundie, mouthbreathing tard.

Saners

2011-11-20 02:12:22 PM

Quite Interesting came up yesterday in a Fark thread and both clips were hilarious. Why are we stuck with PAWN STARS on this side of the pond?

/I'm interested in your television show but let me call a buddy of mine who is an expert in television shows

The Bad Astronomer

2011-11-20 02:12:59 PM

LDM90, try here (pops huge and looming like yo mama's Moon etc. etc.). In fact, the Earth's air makes the Moon and Sun look smaller on the horizon.

almandot

2011-11-20 02:14:49 PM

Is there a point where it hits the horizon that it suddenly stops and is in place for twice as long or is going twice as slow or something because you see it on the horizon twice, once with it actually there and once with the light bending? Is it a gradual slow-down as the sun descends from the highest point in the sky and the refraction increases, or is the refraction a constant amount regardless of where it's in the sky etc...?

douchebag/hater

2011-11-20 02:18:19 PM

What is it about old guys on British television wearing long/long-ish hair?

It looks moronic and many times dirty/greasy.

Refudiated Strategerist

2011-11-20 02:24:49 PM

While, back in America any panel of ""comedians" spend their time snarking other d list celebs, laughing at the latest arrests or going over their latest drunken party antics with other nobodies.

real_headhoncho

2011-11-20 02:32:33 PM

Saners: Quite Interesting came up yesterday in a Fark thread and both clips were hilarious. Why are we stuck with PAWN STARS on this side of the pond?

/I'm interested in your television show but let me call a buddy of mine who is an expert in television shows

Because Pawn Stars actually reflects who lives in the US.

AppleOptionEsc

2011-11-20 02:33:36 PM

Refudiated Strategerist: While, back in America any panel of ""comedians" spend their time snarking other d list celebs, laughing at the latest arrests or going over their latest drunken party antics with other nobodies.

Did you not see their angry, disbelieving faces? Now the other British comedians will be talking about how stupid they are for not paying attention to sciencesesesssss class.

/needs mores S'sss to nouns.

Mrbogey

2011-11-20 02:37:35 PM

Larva Lump

2011-11-20 02:44:04 PM

OK, diffraction. Now, what determines the exact time of sunset? When the leading edge of the disk (distorted or otherwise) touches the horizon, the trailing edge touches the horizon, or the center of the disk touches the horizon? For (local) noon the sun is at its highest point in the sky, so that would have to be the center crossing the meridian, right?

Then there's that whole eight-and-a-third-minute-light-travel-time business.

// "The whole world is spinning!"

RoyBatty

2011-11-20 02:45:02 PM

The Bad Astronomer: LDM90, try here (pops huge and looming like yo mama's Moon etc. etc.). In fact, the Earth's air makes the Moon and Sun look smaller on the horizon.

So if my telescope/camera were tracking the sun/moon/star from overhead to when it sets, does the mirage effect the angular rate of the setting object a) equivalently, b) function(time of day), c) messes up observing so photogs/astronomers know not to do that, d) your mama, e) linearly or all the sudden at the horizon?

FloydA

2011-11-20 02:47:59 PM

When exactly?
Morning and evening.

Glad I could help.

182

2011-11-20 02:57:04 PM

Sandusky: ...goes down on me?

Quantum Apostrophe

2011-11-20 02:58:05 PM

mercator_psi

2011-11-20 03:08:03 PM

As mentioned in the article's comments, the reason that QI isn't repeated on BBC America is because there's a ton of images that would cost too much to clear for US broadcast. Pity too, because it's the best show currently being made on any television anywhere.

There is an upcoming TV version of "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me," but if it will be an adequate US equivalent for QI is still up in the air. I'm skeptical.

Fano

2011-11-20 03:20:54 PM

ArkAngel: Night. After all, it goes out every night in Flagstaff.

Is that why it's so hot there?

threadjackistan

2011-11-20 03:24:22 PM

Fano: ArkAngel: Night. After all, it goes out every night in Flagstaff.

Is that why it's so hot there?

No, it also goes out when it sets, that's why all the people dont burn up.

lorangct

2011-11-20 03:25:58 PM

ArkAngel: Night. After all, it goes out every night in Flagstaff.

It's also the size of a quarter.

whatshisname

2011-11-20 03:59:37 PM

Stephen Fry needs a haircut.

ArcadianRefugee

2011-11-20 04:06:52 PM

LDM90: So the atmosphere distorts the sun's image...but doesn't make the moon look bigger on the horizon?

I've always been a little skeptical of the official astronomers' explanation.

/I said a little skeptical, not fundie, mouthbreathing tard.

The atmosphere distorts the sun's apparent location. It does not affect it's apparent size.

So, yes, the atmosphere distorts the sun's image but doesn't make the moon look bigger on the horizon.

/it also affects the moon's apparent position as well ... moon rise/set is altered just as is the sun's

Krieghund

2011-11-20 05:27:06 PM

Was that Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar on the furthest right? I can't believe he didn't get that.

2.bp.blogspot.com

hawcian

2011-11-20 05:31:26 PM

RoyBatty: The Bad Astronomer: LDM90, try here (pops huge and looming like yo mama's Moon etc. etc.). In fact, the Earth's air makes the Moon and Sun look smaller on the horizon.

So if my telescope/camera were tracking the sun/moon/star from overhead to when it sets, does the mirage effect the angular rate of the setting object a) equivalently, b) function(time of day), c) messes up observing so photogs/astronomers know not to do that, d) your mama, e) linearly or all the sudden at the horizon?

It would be a function of air density and the angle of incoming light, I imagine. Although the changes in air density due to changes in angle probably far, far outweigh any local changes in air density, so you can get away with just using the angle to the horizon. Less so with stars, since they're just points and are more obviously effected by changes in air density. Most of the "mirage effect" would happen close to the horizon, though. It's not quite "all at once" but nowhere near linear.

common sense is an oxymoron

2011-11-20 05:32:40 PM

almandot: Is there a point where it hits the horizon that it suddenly stops and is in place for twice as long or is going twice as slow or something because you see it on the horizon twice, once with it actually there and once with the light bending? Is it a gradual slow-down as the sun descends from the highest point in the sky and the refraction increases, or is the refraction a constant amount regardless of where it's in the sky etc...?

It's gradual, so the sun (or moon, or anything else outside the atmosphere) simply appears to slow down. Also, as noted, the effect is strong enough near the horizon that the sun becomes squashed as the "bottom" of the disc sets more slowly than the "top."

colslax

2011-11-20 06:09:28 PM

ArkAngel: Night. After all, it goes out every night in Flagstaff.

2.bp.blogspot.com

Approves.

revrendjim

2011-11-20 06:56:16 PM

FloydA: When exactly?
Morning and evening.

Glad I could help.

Except that south of the equator it rises in the evening and sets in the morning.

Darth.Balls

2011-11-20 07:24:01 PM

Am I the only one that read that in a Homer voice?

26.media.tumblr.com

/Hotter than a hospital nurse

moralpanic

2011-11-20 08:18:25 PM

Darth.Balls: Am I the only one that read that in a Homer voice?

[26.media.tumblr.com image 288x216]

/Hotter than a hospital nurse

I do now! LOL

hershy799

2011-11-20 08:27:00 PM

Darth.Balls: Am I the only one that read that in a Homer voice?

[26.media.tumblr.com image 288x216]

/Hotter than a hospital nurse

Came for this, leaving satisfied

GLove88mph

2011-11-20 08:37:53 PM

I know who we can ask!

27.media.tumblr.com

Ed Willy

2011-11-20 09:19:47 PM

The question is not when, but where. Because without knowing where, how can we say the Sun is there?

t3knomanser

2011-11-20 09:26:27 PM

RoyBatty: The Bad Astronomer: LDM90, try here (pops huge and looming like yo mama's Moon etc. etc.). In fact, the Earth's air makes the Moon and Sun look smaller on the horizon.

So if my telescope/camera were tracking the sun/moon/star from overhead to when it sets, does the mirage effect the angular rate of the setting object a) equivalently, b) function(time of day), c) messes up observing so photogs/astronomers know not to do that, d) your mama, e) linearly or all the sudden at the horizon?

You generally won't be doing observations near the horizon.

First, there's the ground, buildings, trees, etc. it's also slightly brighter because the ground is reflecting light (assuming it's not awash in artificial light to begin with). Then there's the fact that you're looking through more atmosphere, which means more disruption. There are probably more reasons. Even sailors, who aren't interested in the same level of accuracy won't plot courses by stars beneath 20° elevation.

That aside, the refraction would be a continuous function.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction

dforkus

2011-11-20 09:31:30 PM

Ed Willy: The question is not when, but where. Because without knowing where, how can we say the Sun is there?

no, the question is if..
http://www.geocentricity.com/geocentricity/mbvideo/index.htm

theorellior

2011-11-20 09:32:19 PM

LDM90: So the atmosphere distorts the sun's image...but doesn't make the moon look bigger on the horizon?

The Moon looks bigger on the horizon because your brain has more cues to determine how far away it is. The stuff at the horizon (trees, cars, houses, etc) is close enough that your eyes generate some parallax on them. You get no parallax on the Moon, so it must be really far away. Since it's really far away, it must be much larger than the objects on the horizon. So your brain adjusts your perception of its size. When the Moon is overhead you don't get those cues.

Attention to derail

2011-11-20 09:42:04 PM

Note to self: stop doing anything!

AverageAmericanGuy

2011-11-20 09:49:56 PM

colslax: ArkAngel: Night. After all, it goes out every night in Flagstaff.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 312x400]

Approves.

Calvin's dad is awesome.

OnlyM3

2011-11-20 10:48:05 PM

LDM90
So the atmosphere distorts the sun's image...but doesn't make the moon look bigger on the horizon?

I've always been a little skeptical of the official astronomers' explanation.

/I said a little skeptical, not fundie, mouthbreathing tard.

Nobody was thinking you were a mouth-breathing tard till you added that derp-tastic slashy line.

Sun issue = distortion aka change of position NOT magnification like your Moon example.

Diabloseatery

2011-11-21 03:12:24 AM

Find your soul mate, homer.

Divinegrace

2011-11-21 03:16:07 AM

Everything that can happen IS happening right now. The sun is rising right now, the sun is setting right now.

theorellior

2011-11-21 05:31:57 AM

Divinegrace: Everything that can happen IS happening right now. The sun is rising right now, the sun is setting right now.

Greenwich Mean Time is wrong and evil, for there are 4 simultaneous Days, not 1. Greenwich has a midnight to midnight 1 corner day rotation. It has an imaginary midday to midday with broken lines on chart to avoid bible 1 day error conflict. It completely ignores sunup & sundown. Actually, Genesis 1:5 is not even 1 day. What you have is 4 corners, no time rota. Earth has 2 plus quads & 2 minus quads existing as 0 as opposites but, voiding as 1.

You can't comprehend fact that Cube4 simultaneous 24 hour days rotate within same 24 hour rotation of Mother Earth.

You can't tell the difference between your Mother and a queer guised as God. God can't match ma hole & pa pole sex. Every male on Earth born of a woman. Your Dictionary will explain Viviparous. Believers Ego kills Teen for queer image. Hands Flat on Table With Thumbs Touching - Proves You Are Mirror - Opposites - Not A Diabolic ONEist. Opposites Pulsate Life, One Is Death, Earth Has 4 Days In Same 24 Hours.

TIMECUBE4 Transcends 1 Day God.

jonny_q

2011-11-21 09:35:09 AM

LDM90: I've always been a little skeptical of the official astronomers' explanation.

/I said a little skeptical, not fundie, mouthbreathing tard.

I'm as skeptical as the next guy, but you shouldn't be skeptical of something you can test easily by holding a ruler at arm's length

Nintenfreak

2011-11-21 10:26:33 AM

Skepticism is such a beaten molested word these days. People use it to be skeptical of any claim, especially science, when the term should be used in the context of science to evaluate hypotheses.

FloydA

2011-11-21 11:52:25 AM

revrendjim: FloydA: When exactly?
Morning and evening.

Glad I could help.

Except that south of the equator it rises in the evening and sets in the morning.

Don't be silly. It rises in the morning and sets in the evening in the southern hemisphere as well.

It only rises in the evening and sets in the morning in China!

StoPPeRmobile

2011-11-21 12:42:17 PM

theorellior: Divinegrace: Everything that can happen IS happening right now. The sun is rising right now, the sun is setting right now.

Greenwich Mean Time is wrong and evil, for there are 4 simultaneous Days, not 1. Greenwich has a midnight to midnight 1 corner day rotation. It has an imaginary midday to midday with broken lines on chart to avoid bible 1 day error conflict. It completely ignores sunup & sundown. Actually, Genesis 1:5 is not even 1 day. What you have is 4 corners, no time rota. Earth has 2 plus quads & 2 minus quads existing as 0 as opposites but, voiding as 1.

You can't comprehend fact that Cube4 simultaneous 24 hour days rotate within same 24 hour rotation of Mother Earth.

You can't tell the difference between your Mother and a queer guised as God. God can't match ma hole & pa pole sex. Every male on Earth born of a woman. Your Dictionary will explain Viviparous. Believers Ego kills Teen for queer image. Hands Flat on Table With Thumbs Touching - Proves You Are Mirror - Opposites - Not A Diabolic ONEist. Opposites Pulsate Life, One Is Death, Earth Has 4 Days In Same 24 Hours.

TIMECUBE4 Transcends 1 Day God.

If you think you understand time cube, you don't understand time cube.

Happy Hours

2011-11-21 02:40:27 PM

ZAZ: Sun comes up, it's Tuesday morning.

don't scares me like that. It's still Monday at least where I'm at.

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