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(Salon) Ironic George W. Bush unknowingly gave Democrats a weapon to use against the Congressional Supercommittee   (salon.com) divider line 85
More: Ironic, George W. Bush, Democrats, party favors  
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8267 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Nov 2011 at 12:33 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2011-11-18 10:39:13 AM
George W. Bush unknowingly

Modus operandi.
 
2011-11-18 10:58:17 AM
If they were serious about the deficit they shouldn't do anything and let sequestration go into effect.

---

What would happen, however, if Congress did not do any of those things? Deficits would be more than $7.1 trillion lower over the next 10 years, and the budget would be nearly balanced in 2021. The savings from such inaction would be:

$3.3 trillion from letting temporary income and estate tax cuts enacted in 2001, 2003, 2009, and 2010 expire on schedule at the end of 2012 (presuming Congress also lets relief from the Alternative Minimum Tax expire, as noted below);

$0.8 trillion from allowing other temporary tax cuts (the "extenders" that Congress has regularly extended on a "temporary" basis) expire on schedule;

$0.3 trillion from letting cuts in Medicare physician reimbursements scheduled under current law (required under the Medicare Sustainable Growth Rate formula enacted in 1997, but which have been postponed since 2003) take effect;

$0.7 trillion from letting the temporary increase in the exemption amount under the Alternative Minimum Tax expire, thereby returning the exemption to the level in effect in 2001;

$1.2 trillion from letting the sequestration of spending required if the Joint Committee does not produce $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction take effect; and

$0.9 trillion in lower interest payments on the debt as a result of the deficit reduction achieved from not extending these current policies.


www.offthechartsblog.org

Link (new window)
 
2011-11-18 11:08:33 AM
What an asinine article. "George W. Bush left Democrats such an enormous present in the form of a required sunset provision on a budget-busting tax cut, engineered to ensure that any Congress that let it expire would look like they were massively raising taxes--a result which has already occurred once to the letter!"
 
2011-11-18 11:16:34 AM
Republicans: You had better agree to our deficit reduction plan or else!
Democrats: If we do nothing, we'll save $4 trillion, which is far more than your plan saves.
Republicans: Ok, we'll give you $250 billion. Take it or leave it.
Democrats: Um, leave it?
Republicans: ...
Democrats: ...
Republicans: wat
 
2011-11-18 11:35:17 AM
Mentat: Republicans: You had better agree to our deficit reduction plan or else!
Democrats: If we do nothing, we'll save $4 trillion, which is far more than your plan saves.
Republicans: Ok, we'll give you $250 billion. Take it or leave it.
Democrats: Um, leave it?
Republicans: ...
Democrats: ...
Republicans: wat


This!

"I have $4,000 car"
"I'll offer you $250 for it but I also have to kick you in the nuts"
"....let me think about it...."
 
2011-11-18 11:52:40 AM
I'm just glad to see those hints of a Democratic cave on the taxes seem to have either gone away or they were reminded that we don't need more tax cuts.
 
2011-11-18 12:00:39 PM
The cuts to defense spending will be the most interesting part of this whole charade. You'll see some major hyperventilating if they kick in.
 
2011-11-18 12:16:16 PM
Marcus Aurelius: The cuts to defense spending will be the most interesting part of this whole charade. You'll see some major hyperventilating if they kick in.

Perhaps Boner didn't get 98% of what he wanted after-all.
 
2011-11-18 12:19:33 PM
I will be pleasantly surprised if the Democrats don't cave again. We need some serious progressive policy changes in this country, but I'm too cynical to believe that it will actually happen.
 
2011-11-18 12:38:10 PM
dudemanbro: I will be pleasantly surprised if the Democrats don't cave again. We need some serious progressive policy changes in this country, but I'm too cynical to believe that it will actually happen.

We'll probably see some small, inconsequential, yet mildly encouraging moves from the democrats from now until Election Day.

/third party now
 
2011-11-18 12:40:43 PM
dudemanbro: I will be pleasantly surprised if the Democrats don't cave again. We need some serious progressive policy changes in this country, but I'm too cynical to believe that it will actually happen.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD.

Or, rather, I guess, "This."
 
2011-11-18 12:42:30 PM
dudemanbro: I will be pleasantly surprised if the Democrats don't cave again. We need some serious progressive policy changes in this country, but I'm too cynical to believe that it will actually happen.

It could be that you're cynical because they've caved at EVERY. SINGLE. OPPORTUNITY. Fool me 42 times, shame on me.
 
2011-11-18 12:42:31 PM
I recall at the time that the Republicans were anticipating a permanent Republican majority, starting with the next election. Also at the time they were working with the massive Clinton surpluses which they thought were infinite because they thought they were the result of the Reagan tax cuts. So the sunset clause was put in just to mollify the few bits that remained of the left wing that had any power base. I'm sure that they figured the sunset clause would be meaningless because they would still hold absolute power when it expired and could do what they wanted then.
 
2011-11-18 12:43:58 PM
In short... the Democrats get to sit there, with smug shiat-eating grins plastered across their faces, while the GOP goes bonkers as it loses the fight.

And this time, it might actually work.
 
2011-11-18 12:45:50 PM
*missmeyet.jpg*
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2011-11-18 12:47:39 PM
I'm too much of a pessimist to be even cautiously optimistic about the end of the Bush Tax Cuts instead of "the next Dem cave-in". For the love of whatever you hold dear, Durbin + company, prove me/us wrong and hold firm. For fark's sake.
 
2011-11-18 12:49:30 PM
Please let it be extraordinary rendition.
 
2011-11-18 12:51:12 PM
DGS: I'm too much of a pessimist to be even cautiously optimistic about the end of the Bush Tax Cuts instead of "the next Dem cave-in". For the love of whatever you hold dear, Durbin + company, prove me/us wrong and hold firm. For fark's sake.

No kidding.

Hey! Dems! All you have to do to prove that you're actually effective and interested in resolving the economic problems facing the country is nothing at all. Go get your DSes and play Pokemon until after the deadline runs out. Can you manage that?
 
2011-11-18 12:52:04 PM
RminusQ: What an asinine article. "George W. Bush left Democrats such an enormous present in the form of a required sunset provision on a budget-busting tax cut, engineered to ensure that any Congress that let it expire would look like they were massively raising taxes--a result which has already occurred once to the letter!"

But now it's on autopilot, babeee.
 
2011-11-18 12:53:33 PM
Cinaed: In short... the Democrats get to sit there, with smug shiat-eating grins plastered across their faces, while the GOP goes bonkers as it loses the fight.

And this time, it might actually work.


I refuse to be optimistic when I've watched the Democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so many times.
 
2011-11-18 12:53:38 PM
I thought the only reason the sunset clauses were included is because the Democrats were going to block the legislation without it. So it's not really Dubya's gift, it was Democrats governing smartly. The really smart move would have been to block the tax cuts entirely, but let's just be happy we got as much as we did.
 
2011-11-18 12:56:14 PM
Unpossible! All parties operate under the correct assumption that their party will be in power forever.
 
2011-11-18 12:57:41 PM
A Dark Evil Omen: DGS: I'm too much of a pessimist to be even cautiously optimistic about the end of the Bush Tax Cuts instead of "the next Dem cave-in". For the love of whatever you hold dear, Durbin + company, prove me/us wrong and hold firm. For fark's sake.

No kidding.

Hey! Dems! All you have to do to prove that you're actually effective and interested in resolving the economic problems facing the country is nothing at all. Go get your DSes and play Pokemon until after the deadline runs out. Can you manage that?


They have an even better hand than that, if they're willing to use it. Propose to extend the tax cuts for income up to $75k or so and watch then watch the Republicans raise taxes for working families because they're throwing a hissy fit that the rich don't get to benefit more than everybody else.
 
2011-11-18 12:59:09 PM
So, as I understand the article, if the Democrats do nothing right now, and if Obama wins in 2012, then the Bush tax cuts go away for good...

And we get somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 trillion in new revenue over a number of years and, barring a change in tax policy, we'll be looking at something like a balanced budget by 2021?

I'm confused. Did the Democrats actually do something 'clever'?
 
2011-11-18 12:59:51 PM
Karma Curmudgeon: They have an even better hand than that, if they're willing to use it. Propose to extend the tax cuts for income up to $75k or so and watch then watch the Republicans raise taxes for working families because they're throwing a hissy fit that the rich don't get to benefit more than everybody else.

The Dems tried that last December. The showdown ended with us getting the Obama-McConnell Debt Increase of 2010, which gave millionaires tax breaks again.
 
2011-11-18 01:00:01 PM
DGS: I'm too much of a pessimist to be even cautiously optimistic about the end of the Bush Tax Cuts instead of "the next Dem cave-in". For the love of whatever you hold dear, Durbin + company, prove me/us wrong and hold firm. For fark's sake.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the super committee 'compromised' by raising taxes on poor people, privatizing social security, and placing a moratorium on democrats participating in politics for 10 years.
 
2011-11-18 01:00:27 PM
Edsel: It could be that you're cynical because they've caved at EVERY. SINGLE. OPPORTUNITY. Fool me 42 times, shame on me.

I don't disagree with your fundamental point, but back when the Dems "caved" on this whole Supercommitee thing to resolve the debt ceiling crisis, a few pundits looked at the details and said that the Dems' "cave in" was actually a brilliant strategic move, predicting exactly what TFA is talking about now. So, at least in this one instance, "caving" was actually the right strategy for the Dems.
 
2011-11-18 01:03:23 PM
The smarter course for Democrats, it would seem, is to do nothing and let the automatic spending cuts triggered by a supercommittee failure go into effect and then hope that Obama is reelected and the Bush tax cuts go away once and for all at the end of next year.

Oh, don't worry. This will be an election issue and voters will make Obama promise again not to raise taxes on anyone not in the top 1%. Then Republicans will refuse to pass any extension that doesn't extend the cuts for the top 1% as well, "forcing" Obama to make all the Bush tax cuts permanent.
 
2011-11-18 01:03:44 PM
dudemanbro: I will be pleasantly surprised if the Democrats don't cave again. We need some serious progressive policy changes in this country, but I'm too cynical to believe that it will actually happen.

Well, Harry Reid isn't on the committee, so there's that.
 
2011-11-18 01:03:46 PM
I thought republicans wanted a smaller government that did nothing?
 
2011-11-18 01:04:32 PM
Shaggy_C: The Dems tried that last December. The showdown ended with us getting the Obama-McConnell Debt Increase of 2010, which gave millionaires tax breaks again.

Because a big part of the Democratic caucus didn't want to be saddled with "raising taxes during a recession" in an election year. The political calculus for 2013 is shaping up very differently, no matter who is in the White House.
 
2011-11-18 01:04:32 PM
thurstonxhowell: I refuse to be optimistic when I've watched the Democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so many times.

Have some faith...this time the Rethugicans don't have a "you're soft on defense" hammer to hold over the Democrats' heads.
 
2011-11-18 01:06:34 PM
taxes != revenues
 
2011-11-18 01:09:40 PM
DGS: I'm too much of a pessimist to be even cautiously optimistic about the end of the Bush Tax Cuts instead of "the next Dem cave-in". For the love of whatever you hold dear, Durbin + company, prove me/us wrong and hold firm. For fark's sake.

THIS is where I'm at. I have never ceased to be amazed at the Dems ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
2011-11-18 01:12:53 PM
In other words, the democrats agreed to a law (the placement of the stupor committee) knowing that they would NEVER comply with it. Sounds like business as usual for the left.
 
2011-11-18 01:13:11 PM
A Dark Evil Omen: Hey! Dems! All you have to do to prove that you're actually effective and interested in resolving the economic problems facing the country is nothing at all. Go get your DSes and play Pokemon until after the deadline runs out. Can you manage that?

Unfortunately, history says 'no'.
 
2011-11-18 01:13:13 PM
StoneColdAtheist: thurstonxhowell: I refuse to be optimistic when I've watched the Democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so many times.

Have some faith...this time the Rethugicans don't have a "you're soft on defense" hammer to hold over the Democrats' heads.


Doesn't mean they won't try anyway. Same way they're somehow still able to convince Americans in significant number that Democrats are tax-and-spenders and that Republicans are the party of morals and family values.

DarnoKonrad: DGS: I'm too much of a pessimist to be even cautiously optimistic about the end of the Bush Tax Cuts instead of "the next Dem cave-in". For the love of whatever you hold dear, Durbin + company, prove me/us wrong and hold firm. For fark's sake.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the super committee 'compromised' by raising taxes on poor people, privatizing social security, and placing a moratorium on democrats participating in politics for 10 years.


I'm fairly certain that the 6 Democrats - Patty Murray and Chris van Hollen among them - on the SuperCommittee wouldn't let that happen. Even though, correct me if I'm wrong, they'd need only one D vote to pass their recommendations out of SuperCommittee, I don't think you'd get a D vote for anything like that.

Unless Democrats get hammered by the "sequestration makes us less safe and kills Gramma" trope the GOP is sure to trot out.
 
2011-11-18 01:13:28 PM
Fark Me Runnin: taxes != revenues

Que?
 
2011-11-18 01:13:37 PM
It will be an interesting fight indeed if the Democrats sit this out and then have to start working on the $600 billion in mandatory domestic cuts that comes with a super committee failure. By design, that $600 billion can not come from Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security, leaving only about 19% of the US budget to cut it from where as the $600 billion in defense spending has, in theory, already been done with the draw downs in Iraq and Afghanistan already announced.
 
2011-11-18 01:14:02 PM
They've got an entire year to get scared about being blamed for raising taxes. Wait til next summer when the GOP goes in to a frothing fervor over the idea of the Bush tax cuts expiring. Democrats far and wide will piss their pants and struggle to fix things.

They're going to get destroyed over defense spending cuts, they'll get blamed for refusing to reform medicare/medicaid, and they'll be beaten in to the ground by the republican noise machine about raising taxes.

The GOP will agree to less cuts in Medicare and raising the debt ceiling a little bit more and the democrats will happily extend the Bush tax cuts for 4 more years.

See ya in 2016!
 
2011-11-18 01:15:11 PM
Fark you Salon, tell me what the weapon is on page 1, or I'm not clicking through to page 2.
 
2011-11-18 01:15:38 PM
EnviroDude: In other words, the democrats agreed to a law (the placement of the stupor committee) knowing that they would NEVER comply with it.

Tell me, is it the Democrats or the Republicans that are making noise about getting rid of the automatic triggers?

(This is where you say something nonsensical about Obama's spending.)
 
2011-11-18 01:18:14 PM
mrshowrules: Mentat: Republicans: You had better agree to our deficit reduction plan or else!
Democrats: If we do nothing, we'll save $4 trillion, which is far more than your plan saves.
Republicans: Ok, we'll give you $250 billion. Take it or leave it.
Democrats: Um, leave it?
Republicans: ...
Democrats: ...
Republicans: wat

This!

"I have $4,000 car"
"I'll offer you $250 for it but I also have to kick you in the nuts"
"....let me think about it...."


Except that it will end up being more like this:

"I have a $4,000 car"
"I'll offer you $250 for bit I also have to kick you in the nuts"
"Nope, that's a firm price."
"$100, a kick in the nuts, and a punch to the teeth"
"Look, I'll only agree to give you the car if you let me pay you $500, you kick me in the nuts, punch me in the face, and fark my wife".
"That's not fair!! You're bullying me, but I suppose I could do it for the good of the country, you treasonous sack of crap".

Then they go on Fox news and cry about how badly they got cheated and how they got the deal rammed down their throats.
 
2011-11-18 01:20:14 PM
bulldg4life: They've got an entire year to get scared about being blamed for raising taxes. Wait til next summer when the GOP goes in to a frothing fervor over the idea of the Bush tax cuts expiring. Democrats far and wide will piss their pants and struggle to fix things.

They're going to get destroyed over defense spending cuts, they'll get blamed for refusing to reform medicare/medicaid, and they'll be beaten in to the ground by the republican noise machine about raising taxes.

The GOP will agree to less cuts in Medicare and raising the debt ceiling a little bit more and the democrats will happily extend the Bush tax cuts for 4 more years.

See ya in 2016!


We'll see. I'm more optimistic.
 
2011-11-18 01:22:40 PM
Hrrmmmm...


I think in a strange way the OWS movement might be (and I say MIGHT) be part of the reason the Democrats may start to hang their farking sacs out a bit. It's pretty obvious now, due to the OWS movement, that the money problem is largely related to taxation issues that mostly Republicans created.

Am I off on this train of thought?

/choo choo!
 
2011-11-18 01:23:09 PM
The article seems to give the strong indication that should Obama win re-election, he has no reason to extend the Bush tax cuts in 2012.

What are they basing this on?
 
2011-11-18 01:26:38 PM
Infernalist: The article seems to give the strong indication that should Obama win re-election, he has no reason to extend the Bush tax cuts in 2012.

What are they basing this on?


The mythical idea that Obama will become a far left progressive since he won't need to worry about being re-elected again
 
2011-11-18 01:27:04 PM
This just in, if all the politicos in Washington were vaporized the nation and the planet would be in a better place...
 
2011-11-18 01:27:52 PM
DirkValentine: Hrrmmmm...


I think in a strange way the OWS movement might be (and I say MIGHT) be part of the reason the Democrats may start to hang their farking sacs out a bit. It's pretty obvious now, due to the OWS movement, that the money problem is largely related to taxation issues that mostly Republicans created.

Am I off on this train of thought?

/choo choo!


I 'will' say that the OWS movement has given some steam to the more liberal members of the Democratic party like Bernie Sanders.
 
2011-11-18 01:29:18 PM
What of McCain's statement that if the Super Committee doesn't come to an agreement they will simply invalidate the requirement that across the board spending cuts take place?
 
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