Well, if the US dollar isn't getting stronger, then I guess the next best thing (for Americans at least) is if the Euro gets less valuable in comparison.

xl5150: Well, if the US dollar isn't getting stronger, then I guess the next best thing (for Americans at least) is if the Euro gets less valuable in comparison to flip the board.

FTFY

xl5150: Well, if the US dollar isn't getting stronger, then I guess the next best thing (for Americans at least) is if the Euro gets less valuable in comparison.

Stronger is not always better. Weak is good for exports, housing prices, etc

GAT_00: Because they created a currency that is used by 20 different nations and each have their own budgets and debt and country value, yet a dollar in each country is worth exactly the same?

There is one and only one way to save the Euro. Become the United States of Europe. Quickly, before you crash the world's economic system for the second time in 3 years.

Ummmm, now I may be a little slow, but a system where each nation STATE has it's own budget, and debt, widely varying GDP, but a single currency, and no ability to print their own money, seems familiar to me.

So tell us, how would the surrender of more sovereignty in European Union nations do any farking thing to end the current financial crises?

BigBooper: GAT_00: Because they created a currency that is used by 20 different nations and each have their own budgets and debt and country value, yet a dollar in each country is worth exactly the same?

There is one and only one way to save the Euro. Become the United States of Europe. Quickly, before you crash the world's economic system for the second time in 3 years.

Ummmm, now I may be a little slow, but a system where each nation STATE has it's own budget, and debt, widely varying GDP, but a single currency, and no ability to print their own money, seems familiar to me.

Yes, and we have a federal government that is able to print money and rescue the financial system, and spend on behalf of the states (e.g. Social Security, unemployment benefits, etc). The EU / Euro zone doesn't.

IMO allowing the ECB to print money and buy up debt is the right thing to do. Sure, they'll have higher inflation, but that's preferable to having a repeat of 2008.

FlashHarry: the ability of the fed to affect monetary policy by leaving the gold standard and "printing money" is one of the main reasons we were able to extricate ourselves from the great depression. well, that and government spending on an epic scale.

Neither of these things is true. We didn't leave the gold standard until 1971 and we didn't get out of the depression until after WW2 when we were the only economy left standing. Try harder.

In a turn of events that surprises everyone, I'm actually somewhat in agreement with GAT_00...

Will they monetize the euro?
I think they will, even though it's technically illegal.

The reason I think this is that the "money" is disappearing into the black holes of debt. Any money they print won't find its way into the physical cash economy. It'll be sponged up long before that. The rich will get their money and the rest of us will be told to shut up and put on our austere pants and eat our austere peat moss sammiches.

Governments when citizens are strapped for cash: CITIZENS, LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS AND PAY THE TAX MAN.

Governments when governments are strapped for cash: TAX THE shiat OUT OF EVERYONE AND PRINT PRINT PRINT.

Trillions of dollars in debt later...

uber humper: xl5150: Well, if the US dollar isn't getting stronger, then I guess the next best thing (for Americans at least) is if the Euro gets less valuable in comparison.

Stronger is not always better. Weak is good for exports, housing prices, etc

If we turn on the printing presses as well, in addition to putting a floor under exports and housing prices, we inflate our debt down, so to speak. If Europe turns on the printing presses (and they have no choice, really), we will probably respond in kind.

Pumpernickel bread: uber humper: xl5150: Well, if the US dollar isn't getting stronger, then I guess the next best thing (for Americans at least) is if the Euro gets less valuable in comparison.

Stronger is not always better. Weak is good for exports, housing prices, etc

If we turn on the printing presses as well, in addition to putting a floor under exports and housing prices, we inflate our debt down, so to speak. If Europe turns on the printing presses (and they have no choice, really), we will probably respond in kind.

I know nothing about currency trading, but if this is not done instantaneously there will be a period of time where one could make a lot of money buying a lot of euros with USD.

Pumpernickel bread: uber humper: xl5150: Well, if the US dollar isn't getting stronger, then I guess the next best thing (for Americans at least) is if the Euro gets less valuable in comparison.

Stronger is not always better. Weak is good for exports, housing prices, etc

If we turn on the printing presses as well, in addition to putting a floor under exports and housing prices, we inflate our debt down, so to speak. If Europe turns on the printing presses (and they have no choice, really), we will probably respond in kind.

And that's a good thing for everyone. It essentially forces a certain amount of write downs in debt forgiveness across the board and reduces the debt burdens freeing up that value for investment in growth. There is bound to be some short term pain no matter what the solution right now, so inflation really doesn't seem like a bad idea.

The problem are the people that think any inflation beyond a couple percent is equal to hyperinflation. A couple years of 10% devaluation across the board would probably do wonders.

tgregory: Governments when citizens are strapped for cash: CITIZENS, LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS AND PAY THE TAX MAN.

Governments when governments are strapped for cash: TAX THE shiat OUT OF EVERYONE AND PRINT PRINT PRINT.

Trillions of dollars in debt later...

Do you realize both of those things actually reduce the debt?

/Except maybe the "live within your means" part.

FlashHarry: the ability of the fed to affect monetary policy by leaving the gold standard and "printing money" is one of the main reasons we were able to extricate ourselves from the great depression. well, that and government spending on an epic scale. a friggin World War that increased demand for manufactured goods, while removing/killing/maiming a majority of the eligible work force. Send hundreds of thousands of men overseas and suddenly more jobs are open.

GAT_00: Because they created a currency that is used by 20 different nations and each have their own budgets and debt and country value, yet a dollar in each country is worth exactly the same?

There is one and only one way to save the Euro. Become the United States of Europe. Quickly, before you crash the world's economic system for the second time in 3 years.

Your opinion is noted. Ridicule begins at 3:33 in the Banker's Rule the Planet room on the the 7th floor of Orwell Building.

GAT_00: BigBooper: Ummmm, now I may be a little slow, but a system where each nation STATE has it's own budget, and debt, widely varying GDP, but a single currency, and no ability to print their own money, seems familiar to me.

So tell us, how would the surrender of more sovereignty in European Union nations do any farking thing to end the current financial crises?

Well, one, all national debts are now owned by one government. Now the Greek, Irish, Italian and Portuguese debts, unsustainable on their own, are hidden by the combined economies of Europe. The debt is sustainable when combined. It also hides the individual deficits. Combining everything turns Portugal into basically a state here. It's a much better system.

Europe today is where we were at the end of the Articles of Confederation, roughly.
Kind of farks over the countries without huge debts, doesn't it?

FlashHarry: the ability of the fed to affect monetary policy by leaving the gold standard and "printing money" is one of the main reasons we were able to extricate ourselves from the great depression. well, that and government spending on an epic scale the economies of the world are totally farked right now because whenever somebody wants to finance a war or appease the population for votes they can create more money.

ignacio: Kind of farks over the countries without huge debts, doesn't it?

Reminds me of group projects in school. Step 1) Slack off all day, every day, leaving Helen to do all the work because she doesn't want to get stuck sharing an F- with you. Step 2) Deride her efforts to make you at least pretend to help out. 3) Take an equal share of the credit for the project's result. I empathize with Germany and whichever other countries are solvent and wondering if they should stick around. I browbeat more than one teacher into letting me do group projects alone because it was less work that way.

If the healthy EU states tell the unhealthy to go hump a doorknob, it might not be the wisest choice (to put it mildly), but it would be the most understandable.

Pumpernickel bread: uber humper: xl5150: Well, if the US dollar isn't getting stronger, then I guess the next best thing (for Americans at least) is if the Euro gets less valuable in comparison.

Stronger is not always better. Weak is good for exports, housing prices, etc

If we turn on the printing presses as well, in addition to putting a floor under exports and housing prices, we inflate our debt down, so to speak. If Europe turns on the printing presses (and they have no choice, really), we will probably respond in kind.

China doesn't like your logic and would like a word with you. They have a mobile execution unit nice white van parked outside.

per wiki:
"The monetary base is highly liquid money that consists of coins, paper money (both as bank vault cash and as currency circulating in the public), and commercial banks' reserves with the central bank."

Wake up, sheeple. We've been doing it since 2008.

/Whar inflation, whar?

FlashHarry: and it's true that the massive spending scheme known colloquially as world war two did pull us out of the hole at the end

GDP is not a great measure of prosperity in this case. The gov't spent all damn day, and it didn't do crap in terms of getting the economy back on its feet. In WW2 we had massive amounts of rationing, price controls, wage controls, etc. People weren't prosperous - they were surviving. So to say we had a recovering economy by pointing to the GDP numbers is really misleading. We first had a lot of dubious "government works" and then we had a war effort. Now - all this surviving did allow us to do one thing well: save. And it was those savings, invested after WW2 when the economic controls were lifted, which led to the prosperity (that and the fact that we had zero competition for about 5 years.)

Secondly all of FDR's and Congresses acts with respect to gold did not change the fundamental fact that the USD was still backed by gold. They _temporarily_ allowed it to float, ultimately reaffixing it to $35/oz. But you're right - they technically "left the standard" (which are the words you used) even if they didn't "remove the gold-backing-of-the-dollar" (which is how I interpreted your point originally.)

It's WORSE than Monopoly money. It IS debt. (new window)

FlashHarry: and, yes, i was right, "technically." (is there any other kind of right that matters?)

^

There's no such thing as "technically right/true". There's just right/true. Calling it "technically" is the speaker's attempt to be dismissive of how wrong they were and how right the other person is.

vaderstg: I'm actually somewhat in agreement with GAT_00

When did GAT_00 stop being a troll?