Monti? This sounds strange to me...

he's probably holding three of a kind.
ya' know, 9-9-9!

Never mind that, find the lady! It's so easy, anyone can do it!

It's-a me! Mario!!

// that scene in Assassin's Creed II cracked me up
// just started playing it last week

If it involves reducing the number of paid vacation days below 30, expect Italians to riot in the streets.

Just so he doesn't show us the full Monti.

(Because if Italians wanted an old guy waving his dick around, they'd have stuck with Berlusconi.)

An economist who is not a politician temporarily running a country...

I'm ok with this.

Virtuoso80: If it involves reducing the number of paid vacation days below 30, expect Italians to riot in the streets.

Oh they'll riot, regardless. And so they should. Berlusconi squandered their money, and now they have to pay. Funny how a gang of rich white men made bad decisions and now the whole country has to pay back all that money to a gang of rich white men.

One austerity measure that I haven't seen suggested is slashing MPs wages, that alone would be a token of good faith by the government. Why do they need to be wearing suits anyway? Have them shop at the thrift store. They should be eating the same garbage they feed schoolchildren, and making minimum wage. Then perhaps people might trust them again. But they won't do that, and people will see that their hospitals are closing and their pensions are vanishing and then the shiat will hit the fan.

That doesn't just apply to Italy, it applies to most of the Western world.

epoc_tnac: Virtuoso80: If it involves reducing the number of paid vacation days below 30, expect Italians to riot in the streets.

Oh they'll riot, regardless. And so they should. Berlusconi squandered their money, and now they have to pay. Funny how a gang of rich white men made bad decisions and now the whole country has to pay back all that money to a gang of rich white men.

One austerity measure that I haven't seen suggested is slashing MPs wages, that alone would be a token of good faith by the government. Why do they need to be wearing suits anyway? Have them shop at the thrift store. They should be eating the same garbage they feed schoolchildren, and making minimum wage. Then perhaps people might trust them again. But they won't do that, and people will see that their hospitals are closing and their pensions are vanishing and then the shiat will hit the fan.

That doesn't just apply to Italy, it applies to most of the Western world.

The old wisdom is that elected officials should live comfortably enough to resist the seduction of graft and self-interest. The reason they are given a salary is so they don't tie their incomes to taxes, or private business that is affected by their votes. Unfortunately, this method has proven to be crap.

CokeBear: An economist who is not a politician temporarily running a country...

I'm ok with this.

They keep calling him a technocrat. I can't resist...

Unts-unts-unts-unts
Badada!-unts-unts-unts
Badada!-unts-unts-unts
The system is down
The system is down
Down down down down
FUTBOL!

This guy Mario Monti is a Goldman Sachs employee. Goldman now basically runs the entire country of Italy as if they were just another poker chip on their table.

There are protests going on all over Italy right now as we speak to protest his appointment. Italians are extremely pissed to have a corrupt banker running the entire country. There is talk of even re-electing Berlusconi just to get this guy out of office (in true Lorenzo di Medici/Savonarola fashion). This crooked banker Monti might not even make it to 2012.

More debt is not the answer, but that's what Monti is pushing just to bail out the banks yet again. The only way out of this debt death spiral is to default. The gradual increase in Italian GDP will never ever be able to pay off (or even service) the increase in debt, hence why it is called a death spiral.

Eventually Italy (along with Greece and probably Spain) will default. That's a guarantee. But better sooner rather than later, once Monti has been able to push another 600 billion euros of debt and crushing austerity upon his own people.

These were all taken today:

bdMurray:
The old wisdom is that elected officials should live comfortably enough to resist the seduction of graft and self-interest. The reason they are given a salary is so they don't tie their incomes to taxes, or private business that is affected by their votes. Unfortunately, this method has proven to be crap.

Although I'd agree somewhat, it's also true that politicians get paid chicken feed compared to top-tier salaries in the private sector. I personally know several people who have jobs that earn more than the salary of a US congressman; the members of the most powerful legislature in the world. There are other perks to being in congress, to be sure, but it's still true that unless you get income from another source, a salary for being a congressman/senator/supreme court justice still keeps you in relatively modest means, compared to the importance of the job you do.

Goodfella: (pics)

Is there some significance to yellow Guy Fawkes masks rather than white?

/waits for racial snark

Goodfella: This guy Mario Monti is a Goldman Sachs employee. Goldman now basically runs the entire country of Italy as if they were just another poker chip on their table.

There are protests going on all over Italy right now as we speak to protest his appointment. Italians are extremely pissed to have a corrupt banker running the entire country. There is talk of even re-electing Berlusconi just to get this guy out of office (in true Lorenzo di Medici/Savonarola fashion). This crooked banker Monti might not even make it to 2012.

More debt is not the answer, but that's what Monti is pushing just to bail out the banks yet again. The only way out of this debt death spiral is to default. The gradual increase in Italian GDP will never ever be able to pay off (or even service) the increase in debt, hence why it is called a death spiral.

Eventually Italy (along with Greece and probably Spain) will default. That's a guarantee. But better sooner rather than later, once Monti has been able to push another 600 billion euros of debt and crushing austerity upon his own people.

You are aware of course that default will mean exiting the Euro, going back to lira, and extraordinarly high inflation and dramatically reduced standard of living for ordinary Italians. (oh, and a recession in the rest of Europe and likely globally) And if these countries ever want to borrow at anything close to current rates again, severe austerity anyway?

So, yeah, starting a riot because you can't take 6 weeks off a year or have to retire at 62 from your cushy government job, or because you have to pay taxes, is fun and all. But it isn't going to result in you being any better off in the long run.

Debeo Summa Credo: Goodfella: This guy Mario Monti is a Goldman Sachs employee. Goldman now basically runs the entire country of Italy as if they were just another poker chip on their table.

There are protests going on all over Italy right now as we speak to protest his appointment. Italians are extremely pissed to have a corrupt banker running the entire country. There is talk of even re-electing Berlusconi just to get this guy out of office (in true Lorenzo di Medici/Savonarola fashion). This crooked banker Monti might not even make it to 2012.

More debt is not the answer, but that's what Monti is pushing just to bail out the banks yet again. The only way out of this debt death spiral is to default. The gradual increase in Italian GDP will never ever be able to pay off (or even service) the increase in debt, hence why it is called a death spiral.

Eventually Italy (along with Greece and probably Spain) will default. That's a guarantee. But better sooner rather than later, once Monti has been able to push another 600 billion euros of debt and crushing austerity upon his own people.

You are aware of course that default will mean exiting the Euro, going back to lira, and extraordinarly high inflation and dramatically reduced standard of living for ordinary Italians. (oh, and a recession in the rest of Europe and likely globally) And if these countries ever want to borrow at anything close to current rates again, severe austerity anyway?

So, yeah, starting a riot because you can't take 6 weeks off a year or have to retire at 62 from your cushy government job, or because you have to pay taxes, is fun and all. But it isn't going to result in you being any better off in the long run.


They will never be able to pay this debt back. Never. Therefore, default is the only alternative. You can kick the can down the road a little bit longer, but in the end they will default. And the Italian people have recognized this and are acting accordingly.

BTW, default is not the end of the world. Iceland defaulted and suffered some temporary pain in order to get the debt out of their system and get back on track. Now they are one of the faster growing economies, mainly because they don't have to pay this productivity sucking usury that private corporations tried to stick the taxpayers with.

Banks are going to become very very familiar with this term in the near future: haircuts. Its going to happen. Guaranteed. Deal with it.

blahpers: Goodfella: (pics)

Is there some significance to yellow Guy Fawkes masks rather than white?

If I had to guess, that's a specific group that wants to recognize its own in the crowd while they're wearing pretty common masks. It's like tying a ribbon on your luggage, but with rioting.

/just spitballing

Goodfella: Debeo Summa Credo: Goodfella: This guy Mario Monti is a Goldman Sachs employee. Goldman now basically runs the entire country of Italy as if they were just another poker chip on their table.

There are protests going on all over Italy right now as we speak to protest his appointment. Italians are extremely pissed to have a corrupt banker running the entire country. There is talk of even re-electing Berlusconi just to get this guy out of office (in true Lorenzo di Medici/Savonarola fashion). This crooked banker Monti might not even make it to 2012.

More debt is not the answer, but that's what Monti is pushing just to bail out the banks yet again. The only way out of this debt death spiral is to default. The gradual increase in Italian GDP will never ever be able to pay off (or even service) the increase in debt, hence why it is called a death spiral.

Eventually Italy (along with Greece and probably Spain) will default. That's a guarantee. But better sooner rather than later, once Monti has been able to push another 600 billion euros of debt and crushing austerity upon his own people.

You are aware of course that default will mean exiting the Euro, going back to lira, and extraordinarly high inflation and dramatically reduced standard of living for ordinary Italians. (oh, and a recession in the rest of Europe and likely globally) And if these countries ever want to borrow at anything close to current rates again, severe austerity anyway?

So, yeah, starting a riot because you can't take 6 weeks off a year or have to retire at 62 from your cushy government job, or because you have to pay taxes, is fun and all. But it isn't going to result in you being any better off in the long run.


They will never be able to pay this debt back. Never. Therefore, default is the only alternative. You can kick the can down the road a little bit longer, but in the end they will default. And the Italian people have recognized this and are acting accordingly.

BTW, default is not the end of the world. Iceland defaulted and suffered some temporary pain in order to get the debt out of their system and get back on track. Now they are one of the faster growing economies, mainly because they don't have to pay this productivity sucking usury that private corporations tried to stick the taxpayers with.

Banks are going to become very very familiar with this term in the near future: haircuts. Its going to happen. Guaranteed. Deal with it.

It has happened. The reason Italians and Spanish have seen investors flee their bonds is because the investors have seen haircuts on Greek bonds and fear that haircuts might be coming to Italian and Spanish debt. By defaulting, (and the haircuts are defaults for all intents and purposes), the Greeks have farked over the Italians and Spanish.

The only way to avoid default at this point is if the Eurozone comes up with Eurobonds, which is going to require heretofore responsible Germans, Dutch, and Finns to subsidize the Greeks and others. The 'northerners' have thus far balked at outright support of the Greeks, but if they are to provide support you can bet they'll demand austerity on behalf of the irresponsible Greeks.

So yeah, it looks like there will be defaults and the eurozone will implode, causing a worldwide recession. Because as it turns out you can't have a common currency when you don't have a common government. But the people protesting in Greece and Italy will be worse off in 2, 5, and 10 years because of the implosion, not better. They should be getting on board with any and all austerity measures and hoping investors/Germans continue to support them.

Debeo Summa Credo: The only way to avoid default at this point is if the Eurozone comes up with Eurobonds, which is going to require heretofore responsible Germans, Dutch, and Finns to subsidize the Greeks and others. The 'northerners' have thus far balked at outright support of the Greeks, but if they are to provide support you can bet they'll demand austerity on behalf of the irresponsible Greeks.


Pretty much. However, the German people wouldn't allow this. If they bail them out like this, Italy/Greece/rest of the PIIGS will have Germany by the balls, and be able to milk Germany forever. And even Germany can neither afford, nor allow that. The German people have already gotten near the end of their rope, and are seeing how unsustainable the Euro is. Merkel is probably going to lose her re-election because of this farce. At this point, the topic of discussion has gone from "can we allow the Euro do die" to "how can we let the Euro die while still keeping the EU together". So the Euro is a done. Stick a fork in it.



Debeo Summa Credo: So yeah, it looks like there will be defaults and the eurozone will implode, causing a worldwide recession. Because as it turns out you can't have a common currency when you don't have a common government. But the people protesting in Greece and Italy will be worse off in 2, 5, and 10 years because of the implosion, not better. They should be getting on board with any and all austerity measures and hoping investors/Germans continue to support them.


Nope.jpg.xls.com. You are assuming that Italians are stupid and want to be slaves to central bankers. The only way out is to default. Anything else is financial slavery. The only question is how long. Financial experts are forecasting sometime within the next year, but even as soon as a few weeks to a month. Hope you are prepared...

Debeo Summa Credo: So yeah, it looks like there will be defaults and the eurozone will implode, causing a worldwide recession. Because as it turns out you can't have a common currency when you don't have a common government. But the people protesting in Greece and Italy will be worse off in 2, 5, and 10 years because of the implosion, not better. They should be getting on board with any and all austerity measures and hoping investors/Germans continue to support them.


Nope.jpg.xls.com. You are assuming that Italians are stupid and want to be slaves to central bankers. The only way out is to default. Anything else is financial slavery. The only question is how long. Financial experts are forecasting sometime within the next year, but even as soon as a few weeks to a month. Hope you are prepared...

You understand that rates on italian debt will absolutely skyrocket after default, right? So they'll either have to borrow at these inflated rates (which I assume you would consider financial slavery), abandon the euro and re adopt lira, which wouldn't help you at all in terms of interest rates but allow them to print money, resulting in crippling inflation for their citizens, or enact austerity measures anyway that would preclude them from running a deficit. And at the same time, an italian default would probably result in a Spanish and portuguese default (and maybe French and Austrian) and a Europe wide recession. I don't see how that is 'a way out' for Italians. They're still farked sideways.

Debeo Summa Credo
You understand that rates on italian debt will absolutely skyrocket after default, right? So they'll either have to borrow at these inflated rates (which I assume you would consider financial slavery), abandon the euro and re adopt lira, which wouldn't help you at all in terms of interest rates but allow them to print money, resulting in crippling inflation for their citizens, or enact austerity measures anyway that would preclude them from running a deficit. And at the same time, an italian default would probably result in a Spanish and portuguese default (and maybe French and Austrian) and a Europe wide recession. I don't see how that is 'a way out' for Italians. They're still farked sideways.

Lighten up, Tina.

Goodfella: BTW, default is not the end of the world. Iceland defaulted and suffered some temporary pain in order to get the debt out of their system and get back on track.

Iceland has a population similar to that of Corpus Christi, Texas. Of course they can default and not drag the entire world down with them. Italy is an entirely different matter.Debeo Summa Credo: You understand that rates on italian debt will absolutely skyrocket after default, right? So they'll either have to borrow at these inflated rates (which I assume you would consider financial slavery), abandon the euro and re adopt lira, which wouldn't help you at all in terms of interest rates but allow them to print money, resulting in crippling inflation for their citizens, or enact austerity measures anyway that would preclude them from running a deficit. And at the same time, an italian default would probably result in a Spanish and portuguese default (and maybe French and Austrian) and a Europe wide recession. I don't see how that is 'a way out' for Italians. They're still farked sideways.

This. Sort of - there is a way out - the ECB could buy Italian bonds and driver interest rates down to the point where they are affordable. 5% inflation would goose NGDP growth enough that the debts can be paid without much problem, particularly if the ECB committed to keeping rates under 4% for an extended period of time.

The Germans have *by far* the most to lose if/when they force Italy into default. Its difficult to be an export-oriented economy that produces luxury goods and capital equipment when all of your customers are flat broke and too scared to invest in new production. I have yet to figure out why they are pushing such a hard line except out of spite for those short, dark and dirty Mediterraneans. German industrial production is already taking a hit (down 3% last month), it will absolutely collapse if they get their wish of mass default.