GaryPDX: At some point we'll have to cut our loses, buckle down for a while and ride out the storm.

I vote we keep our shiat and ride out the storm rather than giving everything away and having nothing to ride the storm out with.

/it's all a conspiracy anyway headed by the World Bank, DeBeers, and The Illuminati

GaryPDX: Weaver95: GaryPDX: Europe can fend for itself.

you do realize that if they go down, they'll drag us under with 'em, right?

Perhaps. What do suggest? We bail out Europe with money borrowed from China?

This game won't, or more importantly can't, go on forever. At some point we'll have to cut our loses, buckle down for a while and ride out the storm.

There isn't a suggestion. When Europe goes down, they'll drag us down as well, at least to some extent. I think Weaver was just stating a fact rather than calling for action on our part.

Weaver95: GaryPDX: Europe can fend for itself.

you do realize that if they go down, they'll drag us under with 'em, right?

China will drag us down with them before that happens.

I just took a job in Amsterdam starting in December... I'm quitting my job in San Francisco, relocating and will be henceforth paid in Euros. Now I'm wondering if I haven't made a tragic error...

hungry for pintxos: I just took a job in Amsterdam starting in December... I'm quitting my job in San Francisco, relocating and will be henceforth paid in Euros. Now I'm wondering if I haven't made a tragic error...

Bank your pay in dollars. That way you'll only lose the last paycheck when they burn the Euro. As shabby as the dollar is, it's the cutest of the fat chicks when closing time comes.

Sweet!

Does this mean that if the bank's credit rating is cut I get a higher interest rate on my savings accounts and CDs? Logically it should. An Adjustable Rate Savings account

That's what happens when the currency is based on how much debt is in circulation. Western banking sucks balls.

Debeo Summa Credo: GaryPDX: Weaver95: GaryPDX: Europe can fend for itself.

you do realize that if they go down, they'll drag us under with 'em, right?

Perhaps. What do suggest? We bail out Europe with money borrowed from China?

This game won't, or more importantly can't, go on forever. At some point we'll have to cut our loses, buckle down for a while and ride out the storm.

There isn't a suggestion. When Europe goes down, they'll drag us down as well, at least to some extent. I think Weaver was just stating a fact rather than calling for action on our part.

As to how we'll get dragged down, well, the clever American investment bankers issued what are essentially insurance policies against default for Greek, Italian, Irish, Portuguese, and Spanish government bonds (when the similar European financial firms wouldn't, presumably because they knew default was inevitable). Now these same US institutions are attempting to redefine default so they can avoid paying out on these (what are effectively) insurance policies - which is probably going to result in lots of lawsuits in European courts and, hopefully, a few assassinations.

This isn't news. Add to that the suspension of mark-to-market is hiding an already dismal fiscal picture for U.S. banks. How does this all keep going with the addition of the potentially massive losses from these Euorpean countries defaulting? Maybe every developed country should just default at the same time, wipe global sovereign debt off the books and just start over.

Debeo Summa Credo: GaryPDX: Weaver95: GaryPDX: Europe can fend for itself.

you do realize that if they go down, they'll drag us under with 'em, right?

Perhaps. What do suggest? We bail out Europe with money borrowed from China?

This game won't, or more importantly can't, go on forever. At some point we'll have to cut our loses, buckle down for a while and ride out the storm.

There isn't a suggestion. When Europe goes down, they'll drag us down as well, at least to some extent. I think Weaver was just stating a fact rather than calling for action on our part.

WWIII. Not like we can bail them out. China won't. WWIII, baby. WWIII.

Pumpernickel bread: This isn't news. Add to that the suspension of mark-to-market is hiding an already dismal fiscal picture for U.S. banks.

MtM wasn't suspended. There was a modest tweak to MtM that only affected a very small minority of banks, and only affected fixed income securities.

The new rules didn't affect loans, which were never marked to market for the most part.

So you complain about accounting, but there really wasn't a 'suspension' of MtM accounting, even though both parties in congress whined for such a suspension.

If this financial crisis is contagious, we can't rely on some modern miracle to bail us out. It will be a bitter pill to swallow. Don't count on exports, either. We're drilling and pumping in North Dakota but not enough to beat off a recession. Also, while the Big 3 somewhat recovered, there isn't enough action among consumers. Young, hot Asian countries are in control; they have us by the balls. Our banks are in bed with them; we just clean up the mess.

FTA: "The "exposures" of U.S. lenders to major European banks and the stressed nations of Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain, known as the GIIPS,"

Actually, practically every article I've seen and interview I've watched has referred to them as "PIIGS". But I guess Bloomberg News is trying to be nice.

Atomic Spunk: FTA: "The "exposures" of U.S. lenders to major European banks and the stressed nations of Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain, known as the GIIPS,"

Actually, practically every article I've seen and interview I've watched has referred to them as "PIIGS". But I guess Bloomberg News is trying to be nice.

Bloomberg is a known anti-Gypsy news source, hence the slur.

Debeo Summa Credo: Pumpernickel bread: This isn't news. Add to that the suspension of mark-to-market is hiding an already dismal fiscal picture for U.S. banks.

MtM wasn't suspended. There was a modest tweak to MtM that only affected a very small minority of banks, and only affected fixed income securities.

The new rules didn't affect loans, which were never marked to market for the most part.

So you complain about accounting, but there really wasn't a 'suspension' of MtM accounting, even though both parties in congress whined for such a suspension.

Yes it was, and I don't know where you are getting loans from. The relaxing of M2M was mainly for depreciating MBS. From WIki

"On April 9, 2009, FASB issued the official update to FAS 157[20] that eases the mark-to-market rules when the market is unsteady or inactive. Early adopters were allowed to apply the ruling as of March 15, 2009, and the rest as of June 15, 2009. It was anticipated that these changes could significantly boost banks' statements of earnings and allow them to defer reporting losses.[21] The changes, however, affected accounting standards applicable to a broad range of derivatives, not just banks holding mortgage-backed securities."

Opponents argue that the implications for investors are that the valuation of assets underlying such securities will be increasingly difficult to analyze, not less so. An example would be determining a company's actual assets, equity and earnings, which will be overstated if the assets are not allowed to be marked down appropriately.[citation needed][22][23]

Trolljegeren: Debeo Summa Credo: GaryPDX: Weaver95: GaryPDX: Europe can fend for itself.

you do realize that if they go down, they'll drag us under with 'em, right?

Perhaps. What do suggest? We bail out Europe with money borrowed from China?

This game won't, or more importantly can't, go on forever. At some point we'll have to cut our loses, buckle down for a while and ride out the storm.

There isn't a suggestion. When Europe goes down, they'll drag us down as well, at least to some extent. I think Weaver was just stating a fact rather than calling for action on our part.

As to how we'll get dragged down, well, the clever American investment bankers issued what are essentially insurance policies against default for Greek, Italian, Irish, Portuguese, and Spanish government bonds (when the similar European financial firms wouldn't, presumably because they knew default was inevitable). Now these same US institutions are attempting to redefine default so they can avoid paying out on these (what are effectively) insurance policies - which is probably going to result in lots of lawsuits in European courts and, hopefully, a few assassinations.

Credit default swaps are the rope that will drag us down with them

dragonchild: If this financial crisis is contagious, we can't rely on some modern miracle to bail us out. It will be a bitter pill to swallow. Don't count on exports, either. We're drilling and pumping in North Dakota but not enough to beat off a recession. Also, while the Big 3 somewhat recovered, there isn't enough action among consumers. Young, hot Asian countries are in control; they have us by the balls. Our banks are in bed with them; we just clean up the mess.

I'll be in my bunk

The U.S. banking industry has been in bed with the Euro so much it's starting to look like we might have caught something. Let's just hope there's a shot or an ointment or something for this

or we can have a sense of humor and laugh through adversity like this kid.

Link

Here is Nigel Farage tearing the European Parliament a new azzhole (new window). He's been telling them all along since they started the Euro that the Euro was doomed, and they just laughed at him like the Trojans laughed at Cassandra.

This video is of him having the last laugh, just rubbing their faces in it. This is hilarious.

And so now the banks will want to force more austerity on us in order to pay for their gambling debts. Unless...

Goodfella: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Here is Nigel Farage tearing the European Parliament a new azzhole (new window). He's been telling them all along since they started the Euro that the Euro was doomed, and they just laughed at him like the Trojans laughed at Cassandra.

This video is of him having the last laugh, just rubbing their faces in it. This is hilarious.

And so now the banks will want to force more austerity on us in order to pay for their gambling debts. Unless...

That guy is awesome, excellent speaker, thanks for sharing.

Pumpernickel bread: Debeo Summa Credo: Pumpernickel bread: This isn't news. Add to that the suspension of mark-to-market is hiding an already dismal fiscal picture for U.S. banks.

MtM wasn't suspended. There was a modest tweak to MtM that only affected a very small minority of banks, and only affected fixed income securities.

The new rules didn't affect loans, which were never marked to market for the most part.

So you complain about accounting, but there really wasn't a 'suspension' of MtM accounting, even though both parties in congress whined for such a suspension.

Yes it was, and I don't know where you are getting loans from. The relaxing of M2M was mainly for depreciating MBS. From WIki

"On April 9, 2009, FASB issued the official update to FAS 157[20] that eases the mark-to-market rules when the market is unsteady or inactive. Early adopters were allowed to apply the ruling as of March 15, 2009, and the rest as of June 15, 2009. It was anticipated that these changes could significantly boost banks' statements of earnings and allow them to defer reporting losses.[21] The changes, however, affected accounting standards applicable to a broad range of derivatives, not just banks holding mortgage-backed securities."

Opponents argue that the implications for investors are that the valuation of assets underlying such securities will be increasingly difficult to analyze, not less so. An example would be determining a company's actual assets, equity and earnings, which will be overstated if the assets are not allowed to be marked down appropriately.[citation needed][22][23]

Yes, i know of that change, watched the shameful congressional hearing that led to it, and followed the development and debate in the change.

All I can tell you is that don't believe everything you read on wiki. The language in FAS 157 was changed but in practice it didn't allow alot of leeway in coming up with fair values of bonds.

I had a debate with some others on fark about this a few weeks ago and put in three direct quotes from banks who said the change was not material and didn't change fair values (I think it
was Citibank, b of a, and Goldman). I'll try to find the link to the thread tomorrow if you want.

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: If this financial crisis is contagious, we can't rely on some modern miracle to bail us out. It will be a bitter pill to swallow. Don't count on exports, either. We're drilling and pumping in North Dakota but not enough to beat off a recession. Also, while the Big 3 somewhat recovered, there isn't enough action among consumers. Young, hot Asian countries are in control; they have us by the balls. Our banks are in bed with them; we just clean up the mess.

I'll be in my bunk

You missed one (bolded above).

hungry for pintxos: I just took a job in Amsterdam starting in December... I'm quitting my job in San Francisco, relocating and will be henceforth paid in Euros. Now I'm wondering if I haven't made a tragic error...

Surely IF there is a breakup, which is still highly unlikely, (Look at the exchange rates to see actual fear of people selling €) surely the new Guilder would be much more valuable. And There will still be some sort of monetary union after it's all done, the question is with whom. Right now it's basically up to the northern countries (who did a big part of fueling the housing boom here, too) if I lose all my value and start to have pesetas.