I could really use some sopa right now. Chicken noodle, preferably.

/gettin' to be the cold time of year.

all the lobbying and money thrown around that still won't get me in a theater or make me buy a sh*tty cd put out by the latest teen slut of the month. in fact, if hollywood is nuked from orbit, nothing of value would be lost.

meatofmystery: in fact, if hollywood is nuked from orbit, nothing of value would be lost.

There are some props I'd like to have...

SOPAking what?

It would only "make sites like YouTube that host user content responsible for ensuring that their users do not post infringing material."

No problem. Who decides what is infringing material?

Boatmech: SOPAking what?

It would only "make sites like YouTube that host user content responsible for ensuring that their users do not post infringing material."

No problem. Who decides what is infringing material?

That would be the media cartels.

Boatmech: SOPAking what?

It would only "make sites like YouTube that host user content responsible for ensuring that their users do not post infringing material."

No problem. Who decides what is infringing material?

Don't sites like YouTube already do this? Or is waiting until a claim is filed to take down a video not proactive enough?

I'm really surprised this SOPA stuff isn't front page here on FARK. It affects FARK too and all sites that link to news sources. I'm also surprised Google hasn't made a link for it on their main page since it owns youtube.

FedExPope: Don't sites like YouTube already do this?

So long as YouTube responds to takedown requests, they bear no legal liability for what gets posted on their system. It's known as "Safe Harbor" and is one of the good parts of the DMCA. It makes sites hosting user-generated content viable, because without that protection they would normally be as guilty as the person posting copyrighted content.

SOPA wants to roll that back and expose sites to legal action based on the activities of their users. It isn't about protecting copyright- it's about shutting down disruptive business models.

t3knomanser: FedExPope: Don't sites like YouTube already do this?

So long as YouTube responds to takedown requests, they bear no legal liability for what gets posted on their system. It's known as "Safe Harbor" and is one of the good parts of the DMCA. It makes sites hosting user-generated content viable, because without that protection they would normally be as guilty as the person posting copyrighted content.

SOPA wants to roll that back and expose sites to legal action based on the activities of their users. It is NOT about protecting copyright- it IS about shutting down disruptive business models.

^ THIS ^

I admin a forum with a little over 30k members.

In the past, we've had a former member we've banned file a false DMCA claim against us and successfully take us down. We moved DNS and have been up since; For the record, 1and1 didn't even investigate, whereas our replacement, GoDaddy, kept a note of the circumstances and have notified us when that same person has tried to take us down again.

If this passes, our little forum is farked. No two ways about it; Somebody will get butthurt about being banned and we'll get taken down, again - but this time, there's a risk of actual criminality behind it.

Don't tell me that this will be carefully used and no false claims will succeed, because we've been on the wrong end of that tale before.

Today, we're participating in the scheme being run by http://americancensorship.org/ [americancensorship.org]; If you run a site, regardless of mission, you should too.

/also posted this on /.

Humorous-Name: I admin a forum.

Today, we're participating in the scheme being run by http://americancensorship.org/ [americancensorship.org]; If you run a site, regardless of mission, you should too.

/also posted this on /.

NYPA!!
/sorry, couldn't help it

Speaker2Animals: Humorous-Name: I admin a forum with a little over 30k members so I'm getting a kick...

FTFY...

Yeah, I posted that and thought, "...crap, I forgot to do that".

Boatmech: Humorous-Name: I admin a forum.

Today, we're participating in the scheme being run by http://americancensorship.org/ [americancensorship.org]; If you run a site, regardless of mission, you should too.

/also posted this on /.

NYPA!!
/sorry, couldn't help it

Nah, I've got 30k forum members for my personal army.

/but not really.

Humorous-Name: Speaker2Animals: Humorous-Name: I admin a forum with a little over 30k members so I'm getting a kick...

FTFY...

Yeah, I posted that and thought, "...crap, I forgot to do that".

Boatmech: Humorous-Name: I admin a forum.

Today, we're participating in the scheme being run by http://americancensorship.org/ [americancensorship.org]; If you run a site, regardless of mission, you should too.

/also posted this on /.

NYPA!!
/sorry, couldn't help it

Nah, I've got 30k forum members for my personal army.

/but not really.

Yea, still can't believe people think this is workable IRL.

30k posting once a day.
How long would it take to personally ok each post?

Boatmech:
Yea, still can't believe people think this is workable IRL.

30k posting once a day.
How long would it take to personally ok each post?

...That's not how it works.

I don't ok each post, just like each post in a thread here isn't manually approved.

Also, 30k members doesn't equate to 30k posting every day. A lot of them are old or inactive accounts.

Mikey1969: God, this sounds like an Internet version of the Patriot Act. No due process, acting only on the accusation, as opposed to any kind of hearing, and it sounds like they can legally make your bank/credit union and advertisers drop you from day 1 of just a claim being made. This could even cover if you posted in-game screencaps and gameplay of WOW, or any other game. Basically , places like YouTube could get slapped for someone doing mash-ups or lip syncing their own performance of something already in existence, thereby nullifying 'fair use'. It would be up to YouTube to remove it immediately, and then their bank could cut all of their accounts, and their advertisers could drop them, all from day 1 of a claim being made, whether it is proved legit or not, and whether you are found guilty of this piracy or not.


Scary stuff, indeed...
Link (new window)

Not really much different from the asset forfeiture laws already on the books.

This bill will literally end FARK, sites like it, and realistically the internet. Far worse than even not having net neutrality.

Not sure why it hasn't gotten more discussion.

Everytime I mention it in a thread the wave of trolling buries it.

I hate anyone who supports this bill.

wmoonfox: There are some props I'd like to have...

Also props I'd like to give all 16 who have commented so far. There ought to be thousands of us speaking up for internet freedom. They can't ignore all of us.

DECMATH: wmoonfox: There are some props I'd like to have...

Also props I'd like to give all 16 who have commented so far. There ought to be thousands of us speaking up for internet freedom. They can't ignore all of us.

There ought to be thousands - but where are they? I learned about this from Boing Boing and 4chan - that's it. Those are the only sites that seem to care. It's not on FARK, it's not on Drudge, it's not anywhere.

Leader O'Cola: This bill will literally end FARK, sites like it, and realistically the internet. Far worse than even not having net neutrality.

Not sure why it hasn't gotten more discussion.

Everytime I mention it in a thread the wave of trolling buries it.

I hate anyone who supports this bill.

I'm guessing you and everyone else in this thread haven't even called your congress critters yet. (Emails are useless unless you like canned responses). Both myself and my partner have called 1 congressman and 2 senators. Took us combined 15 minutes.

Humorous-Name: Boatmech:
Yea, still can't believe people think this is workable IRL.

30k posting once a day.
How long would it take to personally ok each post?

...That's not how it works.

I don't ok each post, just like each post in a thread here isn't manually approved.

Also, 30k members doesn't equate to 30k posting every day. A lot of them are old or inactive accounts.

I was thinking more along the lines of Youtube uploads X number of hours of content every minute.
Huge volume = somebody WILL be infringed.

fortean chicken: DECMATH: wmoonfox: There are some props I'd like to have...

Also props I'd like to give all 16 who have commented so far. There ought to be thousands of us speaking up for internet freedom. They can't ignore all of us.

There ought to be thousands - but where are they? I learned about this from Boing Boing and 4chan - that's it. Those are the only sites that seem to care. It's not on FARK, it's not on Drudge, it's not anywhere.

Reddit is REALLY pushing this. There are pretty major corporate entities that are speaking out against it as well. President Obama has also said he would veto the snot out of it. None of which, of course, prevents this from happening. It's a good time to remind your congress critter...ESPECIALLY IF YOU LIVE IN THE STATES WHERE THIS BILL IS SPONSORED...that you gave them the job and you can take it from them. This sh*t is bipartisan, too...don't get holier than thou on one side or the other. In this case, money talks.

fortean chicken: I'm really surprised this SOPA stuff isn't front page here on FARK. It affects FARK too and all sites that link to news sources. I'm also surprised Google hasn't made a link for it on their main page since it owns youtube.

Yes, Fark would be... farked. It would seriously jeopardize Reddit, Fark, Youtube, Tumblr, most blogging sites, by removing the safe harbor provisions of the DMCA that mean that websites aren't responsible for their users linking or uploading something infringing. These infringing websites would then additionally not be able to deal with Paypal, Mastercard/Visa, etc.

YOU need to write Congress, because you like the internet, or you wouldn't be here. No, you can't be a lazy farker and hope the EFF takes care of it for you. You have to put in some time and you're going to have to get your friends to work, too. This is your fight and it matters.

There's a good post with contact info for key Congress members over at Reddit today. But beyond contacting Congress (type up your letter and print and mail it, more effective than email) please tell your friends. Commit to informing at least 10 or 20 people in your social circle, your family, etc. about this. Talk about it at Thanksgiving. When people find out Congress wants to kill Youtube, they're going to be pissed. There's an election next year. Make this a key campaign issue. It's down to you to do it.

"sopa" means trash in Swedish.

Yeah. That's all I got.

Boatmech: Humorous-Name: Boatmech:
Yea, still can't believe people think this is workable IRL.

30k posting once a day.
How long would it take to personally ok each post?

...That's not how it works.

I don't ok each post, just like each post in a thread here isn't manually approved.

Also, 30k members doesn't equate to 30k posting every day. A lot of them are old or inactive accounts.

I was thinking more along the lines of Youtube uploads X number of hours of content every minute.
Huge volume = somebody WILL be infringed.

Sorry, I completely misunderstood. You are correct.

dababler: Leader O'Cola: This bill will literally end FARK, sites like it, and realistically the internet. Far worse than even not having net neutrality.

Not sure why it hasn't gotten more discussion.

Everytime I mention it in a thread the wave of trolling buries it.

I hate anyone who supports this bill.

I'm guessing you and everyone else in this thread haven't even called your congress critters yet. (Emails are useless unless you like canned responses). Both myself and my partner have called 1 congressman and 2 senators. Took us combined 15 minutes.


Actually I did, several times, when I first read about this bill 2-3 weeks ago.


I just wish this would get cross-posted to the main or even politics tab. Despite the trolling it would get, it would at least get attention

/ sad
// nice knowing you all

You want to stop online piracy? Fine. I'll go offline. I'll build, dun dun dunh... a sneakernet. I already know several guys who go to boston and get their bootleg DVDs from the T.

Leader O'Cola: This bill will literally end FARK, sites like it, and realistically the internet. Far worse than even not having net neutrality.

Not sure why it hasn't gotten more discussion.

Everytime I mention it in a thread the wave of trolling buries it.

I hate anyone who supports this bill.

I don't support it but I must admit a sadistic part of me hopes it passes.

Things are NOT ok. Maybe it'd do us some good to have no more internet, expensive bland movies, and offensively talentless music until we get it sorted.

Anything less than blood on the scales seems like delaying the inevitable.

Yes, it's sad. And its terrible. And it'll soon be time.

Humorous-Name: Boatmech: Humorous-Name: Boatmech:

I was thinking more along the lines of Youtube uploads X number of hours of content every minute.
Huge volume = somebody WILL be infringed.

Sorry, I completely misunderstood. You are correct.

No problem.
If you had Youtube instead of 30k how could you cope with this law, if it passes?

Leader O'Cola: This bill will literally end FARK, sites like it, and realistically the internet. Far worse than even not having net neutrality.

Not sure why it hasn't gotten more discussion.

Everytime I mention it in a thread the wave of trolling buries it.

I hate anyone who supports this bill.

Wouldn't servers just move outside of the jurisdiction of the US?

https://www.anonymousspeech.com/anonymous_hosting.aspx

My letter to my representative SC dist 5:

As an IT professional I must implore you to oppose the Stop Online Piracy Act(SOPA) bill. I can tell you that this IS a job killing bill. This will not stop online piracy but it will greatly hinder internet innovation and drive many jobs and start up company over seas. With the continued exodus of manufacturing jobs from the US it is imperative that the US exploit its position as a leader in high tech. This bill will cause untold harm to our country's ability to expand and profit from the rapidly expanding
high tech internet industry. This industry can provide high paying, low pollution jobs for US citizens that are desperately needed in South Carolina and the USA. The harm that will be caused by this bill will exponentially exceed and benefits that may come from it.

You must oppose this bill.

Feel free to copy.

Boatmech: Humorous-Name: Boatmech: Humorous-Name: Boatmech:

I was thinking more along the lines of Youtube uploads X number of hours of content every minute.
Huge volume = somebody WILL be infringed.

Sorry, I completely misunderstood. You are correct.

No problem.
If you had Youtube instead of 30k how could you cope with this law, if it passes?

I couldn't. I have enough trouble keeping up with the forums as is, and that's with a staff of 5 including myself, plus the IRC network we have.

Google probably have the resources to use heuristic analysis on each upload, but that's horrifically expensive in terms of computing time; We dabbled with a neural net bot to deal with spam and obvious trolls and it did work quite well - but even that cost a fortune in computing time, relatively speaking.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Leader O'Cola: This bill will literally end FARK, sites like it, and realistically the internet. Far worse than even not having net neutrality.

Not sure why it hasn't gotten more discussion.

Everytime I mention it in a thread the wave of trolling buries it.

I hate anyone who supports this bill.

Wouldn't servers just move outside of the jurisdiction of the US?

https://www.anonymousspeech.com/anonymous_hosting.aspx

Well, the bill charges American search providers, ISPs and domain name servers with preventing access by any means 'feasible' to foreign sites deemed to violate copyright law by the Attorney General.

Having just read the bill (HR 3261 on Thomas), this reads as "F*ck you forever, Pirate Bay, Love the RIAA and MPAA". It wouldn't directly affect YouTube or Fark.

It's a wonderfully spiteful move and the best legislation money can buy. Still not going to solve their problem though.

Leader O'Cola: dababler: Leader O'Cola: This bill will literally end FARK, sites like it, and realistically the internet. Far worse than even not having net neutrality.

Not sure why it hasn't gotten more discussion.

Everytime I mention it in a thread the wave of trolling buries it.

I hate anyone who supports this bill.

I'm guessing you and everyone else in this thread haven't even called your congress critters yet. (Emails are useless unless you like canned responses). Both myself and my partner have called 1 congressman and 2 senators. Took us combined 15 minutes.


Actually I did, several times, when I first read about this bill 2-3 weeks ago.


I just wish this would get cross-posted to the main or even politics tab. Despite the trolling it would get, it would at least get attention

/ sad
// nice knowing you all

There's one coming up in about half an hour. Don't fret.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Fark_Guy_Rob: Leader O'Cola: This bill will literally end FARK, sites like it, and realistically the internet. Far worse than even not having net neutrality.

Not sure why it hasn't gotten more discussion.

Everytime I mention it in a thread the wave of trolling buries it.

I hate anyone who supports this bill.

Wouldn't servers just move outside of the jurisdiction of the US?

https://www.anonymousspeech.com/anonymous_hosting.aspx

Well, the bill charges American search providers, ISPs and domain name servers with preventing access by any means 'feasible' to foreign sites deemed to violate copyright law by the Attorney General.

Having just read the bill (HR 3261 on Thomas), this reads as "F*ck you forever, Pirate Bay, Love the RIAA and MPAA". It wouldn't directly affect YouTube or Fark.

It's a wonderfully spiteful move and the best legislation money can buy. Still not going to solve their problem though.

Oh wow - gotcha. So not only could they shut down stuff in the US - they'd legally require ISPs in the US and search providers to filter out 'bad sites'.

You know, I'm kind of torn. The way the law is written, it's just too much and too easy to abuse. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if piracy was immediately stopped in the US or at least made so difficult to accomplish that 99% of people can't or won't bother.

It reminds me of the error message I get when trying to watch just about any TV show from the US online in Europe (Netflix, Fox on Demand, etc...) - it says, 'Sorry your country is not allowed to watch this'.

This prevents like 99% of people from watching it. Sure, they might just turn to Pirate Bay; but very few people actually take the (admittedly easy) steps to access it with a different US-based IP address. I'm 100% sure people in the US could get around the ISP blocks with VPNs and Proxies and everything else imaginable (a never ending game of cat and mouse) - but right now, everyone I know effortless pirates crap. It would be interesting to see that illegal behaviour stopped.

If you're really upset about this bill, don't bother contacting your legislator. You don't have a big enough pocketbook to listen to and they don't work for you anyways.

You and thirty of your friends or family need to call up Time Warner, or Verizon, or Cox, or Comcast - whoever is providing your internet service - and tell them that you will cancel subscription and stop all payment the instant this bill passes. This part's important : you need to actually do it if it happens.

Sign petitions addressed to your ISP: we will not give you one red cent while this law is in place.

THAT will be the effective way to get heard on this subject.

Humorous-Name: Boatmech: Humorous-Name: Boatmech: Humorous-Name: Boatmech:


No problem.
If you had Youtube instead of 30k how could you cope with this law, if it passes?

I couldn't. I have enough trouble keeping up with the forums as is, and that's with a staff of 5 including myself, plus the IRC network we have.

Google probably has the resources to use heuristic analysis on each upload, but that's horrifically expensive in terms of computing time; We dabbled with a neural net bot to deal with spam and obvious trolls and it did work quite well - but even that cost a fortune in computing time, relatively speaking.

K. Found the problem - the people that are for this won't actually have to deal with the details.

Fark_Guy_Rob
You know, I'm kind of torn. The way the law is written, it's just too much and too easy to abuse. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if piracy was immediately stopped in the US or at least made so difficult to accomplish that 99% of people can't or won't bother.

In order to accomplish that, you would need to destroy every computer.

The economics of the matter are stupidly simple: a perfect copy costs a minimal amount of time and money. Your supply is effectively infinite. There's no scarcity.

The smart thing to do would be to change from a "push" model (we produced this crap, now buy it) to a pull model (if you pay us money we'll produce some crap). Suddenly you have scarcity again. Who cares if it gets copied; you've already been paid.

Instead it's all about control, and as tight-fisted as possible. Getting paid to do a job is for peasants.

Its also hilariously counterproductive. As my Canadian friend noted, "I'd have endured the commercials on Hulu but since they obviously want me to grab a torrent..."

This annoys me slightly since I don't really watch TV but I do like one or two shows outside of the US. I can get around these restrictions very easily or I can live without. There's a public library full of books I haven't read like three blocks from where I live. Cheap entertainment is always available to me.

What bothers me is the chilling effect this will have on the internet. US DNS servers can no longer be trusted, doing business with US banks will be foolish and get your ad revenue from US companies in advance.

meatofmystery: all the lobbying and money thrown around that still won't get me in a theater or make me buy a sh*tty cd put out by the latest teen slut of the month. in fact, if hollywood is nuked from orbit, nothing of value would be lost.

Hear, hear! I agree.

Zmog: "sopa" means trash in Swedish.

Yeah. That's all I got.

I just think the FCC is a little butthurt it doesn't control the internet. I have heard some folks complaining about this, but it hasn't been in the news as much as it appears it should be. I have not read this bill, but I hope it doesn't pass.

And Zmog, thanks for that, I love little bits of trivia. Have a great day! (And all of you as well.)

Ha!

Section 202 - there's a cap of $15m in damages if a corporation is found in violation.

Disgusting.