wait, I understand not being able to -host- events in New York (which isn't a problem since they'll just continue to host events in Newark since New Jersey has no problem collecting revenue), but they're technically not allowed to broadcast it (to New York) either?

The_Sponge: They should have mentioned that the fight was a major disappointment.

been said a bunch already, but if the Fox broadcast included even just the Guida/Bendo fight, no one would be complaining right now.

I guess the UFC just isn't making big enough "contributions" or "donations" to the right people.

Fun Dumpster: I guess the UFC just isn't making big enough "contributions" or "donations" to the right people.

So is this a case of the boxing lobbyists flooding Albany with money over the past year or so? Because I swear that about 12 months ago the MMA ban looked like it was going to be overturned. Something happened.

/Maybe gay marriage.

Fun Dumpster: I guess the UFC just isn't making big enough "contributions" or "donations" to the right people.

thing is, the NYS legislature has no leverage in this matter. Newark is -right there-, and Prudential Center only has like 500 fewer seats than MSG.

The Bestest: Fun Dumpster: I guess the UFC just isn't making big enough "contributions" or "donations" to the right people.

thing is, the NYS legislature has no leverage in this matter. Newark is -right there-, and Prudential Center only has like 500 fewer seats than MSG.

From a fan standpoint, that might be fine, but for the state of New York, they're passing up on a source of income. They're allowing millions of dollars to go across the river for no other reason than because some curmudgeons have decided that MMA is bad, but boxing is fine. They're passing on consumers who come from other states to watch a fight, spend money on the tolls/trains/buses/cabs, eat at the local restaurants, and spend cash at all the local businesses. All of this in addition to the money spent on the ticket itself. It's an influx of money that is now going to another state. Someone isn't getting the bribe they feel they deserve, so fark everyone else.

The Bestest: Fun Dumpster: I guess the UFC just isn't making big enough "contributions" or "donations" to the right people.

thing is, the NYS legislature has no leverage in this matter. Newark is -right there-, and Prudential Center only has like 500 fewer seats than MSG.


It's a prestige thing. The UFC debut inside THE Madison Square Garden is a big deal even tho they've already done a dozen shows in NJ.

NY has also given MMA some pretty famous fighters :

John "Bones" Jones (current LHW champ)

Matt Serra (former MW champ*)

Phil Baroni

Rashad Evans (Former LHW champ)

Renzo Gracie ran a dojo there but I don't know if it's still open today

The_Sponge: FTFA:

On Saturday night, Fox broadcast the network debut of UFC to national audiences, including those in New York. The network wasn't scared by possible criminal action and indeed got rewarded. The show pulled in an audience of 5.7 million people, which topped any college football game this season except for one (Alabama-LSU) in the 18-34 demographic.


They should have mentioned that the fight was a major disappointment.

DOn't know anyone with knowledge of those two fighters that predicted the fight to go long.

The_Sponge: FTFA:

On Saturday night, Fox broadcast the network debut of UFC to national audiences, including those in New York. The network wasn't scared by possible criminal action and indeed got rewarded. The show pulled in an audience of 5.7 million people, which topped any college football game this season except for one (Alabama-LSU) in the 18-34 demographic.


They should have mentioned that the fight was a major disappointment.

I respectfully disagree. I thought the fight was awesome.

I did think that the presentation was stupid. And not showing prelims before and after was also the height of dumb. If they'd used their standard format, it would have been great.

I blame Fox.

The_Sponge: FTFA:

On Saturday night, Fox broadcast the network debut of UFC to national audiences, including those in New York. The network wasn't scared by possible criminal action and indeed got rewarded. The show pulled in an audience of 5.7 million people, which topped any college football game this season except for one (Alabama-LSU) in the 18-34 demographic.


They should have mentioned that the fight was a major disappointment.

How so?
If the fighters go to the ground too fast or for too long, and have a technical match then its too boring for the typical American sports fan. If one of the fighters lands a haymaker early then it's over too fast and is a disappointment. Its not "pro wrestling". Sometime people get caught and get laid out. You are not guaranteed a 30 minute bout with chairs, people distracting refs, blood and guts.

BrotherMalcolm: How so?

You just described "How So."

The fight was 10 seconds long and the "knockout blow" was unimpressive looking. That's how the fight was a major disappointment.

Were you really *not* disappointed that fight didn't go longer than a few seconds?

The Homer Tax: BrotherMalcolm: How so?

You just described "How So."

The fight was 10 seconds long and the "knockout blow" was unimpressive looking. That's how the fight was a major disappointment.

Were you really *not* disappointed that fight didn't go longer than a few seconds?

It was 64 seconds not 10. And you watch too many farking movies if that hit was unimpressive to you. That's what REAL fights look like. Go back to watching "Dragon Ball Z" snowflake.

One Bad Apple: The Homer Tax: BrotherMalcolm: How so?

You just described "How So."

The fight was 10 seconds long and the "knockout blow" was unimpressive looking. That's how the fight was a major disappointment.

Were you really *not* disappointed that fight didn't go longer than a few seconds?

It was 64 seconds not 10. And you watch too many farking movies if that hit was unimpressive to you. That's what REAL fights look like. Go back to watching "Dragon Ball Z" snowflake.

Good thing that fight wasn't Dragonball Z, hell we would be waiting 3 weeks for the first round to end.

The way I see it - it was a great punch right behind the ear. Not Santos' fault the guy left him the opening so early on. Nor is Danna White/ the UFC to blame. Just happens sometimes. I am sure White would have preferred the fight to go one for 2-3 rds of abuse to give the fans what they wanted. Oh well.

Punchers chance - and all that.

The Homer Tax: BrotherMalcolm: How so?

You just described "How So."

The fight was 10 seconds long and the "knockout blow" was unimpressive looking. That's how the fight was a major disappointment.

Were you really *not* disappointed that fight didn't go longer than a few seconds?

For two heavyweights known for their striking, 64 seconds is plenty long enough. Anyone with prior knowledge of these two didn't figure the fight would go past 2 rounds, tops.

The punch didn't land square and put him 'lights out', but a punch behind the ear screws up your equilibrium, that's when dos Santos pounced, and Velasquez wasn't defending himself.

I'm just going to guess that when our founding fathers were piecing together the framework of this great nation, they didn't give a shiat about what type of fights could be fought in certain areas. I'm also going to guess that the tenth amendment takes care of this issue.

powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution are reserved, respectively, to the states or the people.

This should be up to the state. If the people of the state don't like it, find new representatives or convince your current ones to listen.

The Homer Tax: BrotherMalcolm: How so?

You just described "How So."

The fight was 10 seconds long and the "knockout blow" was unimpressive looking. That's how the fight was a major disappointment.

Were you really *not* disappointed that fight didn't go longer than a few seconds?

Unipressive "looking".

Who cares how it looks....its all about how it feels.

I'll take a 10s KO over 5 rounds of rutting Walruses.

I'm sorry, who is surprised that a heavyweight match-up lasted less than 2 minutes?

Look, if you guys can't understand why a 64 second fight was disappointing to 80% of the people watching this thing, I don't know what else to tell you other than - this is why UFC is never going to be more than the niche sport it is.

The whole point of getting this fight on Fox was as an attempt to break into the at least relative mainstream. A single, minute-long fight is not going to accomplish that because when the majority of people watch sports, they're doing it in search for more than a literal minute of entertainment.

I'm not "blaming" anyone. I even understand what you are saying. What I'm trying to do here is explain to you why a 64 second long fight for a sports first foray on a national network was detrimental to its aims of breaking into the Mainstream.

InferiousX: I'm sorry, who is surprised that a heavyweight match-up lasted less than 2 minutes?

I'm more surprised that they didn't have a plan to show the prelims in case it did go quick. I don't know if that's Fox's call or what, but normally they're better than that.

Lumbar Puncture: I'm more surprised that they didn't have a plan to show the prelims in case it did go quick. I don't know if that's Fox's call or what, but normally they're better than that.

That's my thing. If it was so obvious that this thing was going to last 2 minutes at the maximum, they should have shown more fights.

Watching a half an hour of hype, production pieces on whatever, tale of the tape, and entrances, to be followed by a minute long fight was a disappointment for most people. I'm sorry if that upsets people, but it's just the reality of the situation.

mavrickatubc: The_Sponge: FTFA:

On Saturday night, Fox broadcast the network debut of UFC to national audiences, including those in New York. The network wasn't scared by possible criminal action and indeed got rewarded. The show pulled in an audience of 5.7 million people, which topped any college football game this season except for one (Alabama-LSU) in the 18-34 demographic.


They should have mentioned that the fight was a major disappointment.

I respectfully disagree. I thought the fight was awesome.

I did think that the presentation was stupid. And not showing prelims before and after was also the height of dumb. If they'd used their standard format, it would have been great.

I blame Fox.

This. Should've done it ala Spike: 3 or 4 fights (depending on the length of each fight) including the ME.

I'm not a lawyer, but this sounds like a borderline frivolous suit. Obviously, New York has a right to regulate or ban the sport as it sees fit. And considering this isn't likely to get settled for a couple years, the UFC must be pretty pessimistic about the chances of getting MMA legalized through the legislature.

The only argument that sounds like it has a hope of taking hold is the claim that the law as it stands is overly broad and could be read to ban reporting on MMA, etc.

The Homer Tax: Lumbar Puncture: I'm more surprised that they didn't have a plan to show the prelims in case it did go quick. I don't know if that's Fox's call or what, but normally they're better than that.

That's my thing. If it was so obvious that this thing was going to last 2 minutes at the maximum, they should have shown more fights.

Watching a half an hour of hype, production pieces on whatever, tale of the tape, and entrances, to be followed by a minute long fight was a disappointment for most people. I'm sorry if that upsets people, but it's just the reality of the situation.

They have to allot time for the fight to go all 5 rounds just in case, however they really f-ed up with no plan B. Like I said, usually the UFC folks are better than that, if Fox had a hand in the production instead of UFC (which normally is not something they would allow) then I bet Dana was pissed that they may have blown their best chance for mainstream exposure.

Still, quick KOs happen in boxing as well, and while it may not be the best way to introduce new people to the sport I think the 'anything can happen' nature of the fights is one of the things that draws the most appeal to the UFC in the first place. It's understandable not to be please, but it's a free TV event and it made Dos Santos look like a monster.

Skyrmion: I'm not a lawyer, but this sounds like a borderline frivolous suit. Obviously, New York has a right to regulate or ban the sport as it sees fit. And considering this isn't likely to get settled for a couple years, the UFC must be pretty pessimistic about the chances of getting MMA legalized through the legislature.

The only argument that sounds like it has a hope of taking hold is the claim that the law as it stands is overly broad and could be read to ban reporting on MMA, etc.

well now I'm wondering...
MMA is legal in NJ, and NYC-based broadcasts cover all of northern NJ. How is that handled?
What about stations that are incorporated and/or broadcast from NJ (for example, WOR is licensed to Secaucus, NJ, but transmits from the Empire State Bldg)?

It's all crap unless they allow the fighters to fight to the death. I'm not going to sit there and watch two men roll around with each other.

I think they didnt want to chance showing Showtime vs Clay because of Clay's ability to get his face smashed in and bleed like a stuck pig. That would have been far worse for them in showing they aren't a blood and guts outfit. That being said, they had a full set of prelims and could have found 1 that was a quality bout and shown that early.

eagles95: That being said, they had a full set of prelims and could have found 1 that was a quality bout and shown that early.

The fight immediately ("immediately" being a relative term, given all the fluff between it and the main event) prior to JDS/Cain, Guida/Bendo was easily the best fight of the night.

The Homer Tax: Look, if you guys can't understand why a 64 second fight was disappointing to 80% of the people watching this thing, I don't know what else to tell you other than - this is why UFC is never going to be more than the niche sport it is.

The whole point of getting this fight on Fox was as an attempt to break into the at least relative mainstream. A single, minute-long fight is not going to accomplish that because when the majority of people watch sports, they're doing it in search for more than a literal minute of entertainment.

I'm not "blaming" anyone. I even understand what you are saying. What I'm trying to do here is explain to you why a 64 second long fight for a sports first foray on a national network was detrimental to its aims of breaking into the Mainstream.

That's a mighty big number you're throwing out there, got anything to back it up with? I watched the fight with several freinds who'd never seen an MMA match before( I was explaining the various rules throughout the broadcast) and they enjoyed it. Sure it was quck but the sudden ending was exiting.

The UFC went into this trying to introduce new fans to MMA and explain what it is and isn't. In those regards they did a good job. Should they have had a Plan B in case of a short fight? Absolutely, but that doesn't take anything away from what happened in the main event. Newcomers got to see a sudden, out of nowhere KO instead of a Klitchko jab-jab-clinch fest for 12 rounds.

The show pulled in an audience of 5.7 million people,

>UFC on FOX peaks with 8.8 million viewers for Velasquez-Dos Santos title fight (new window)

One Bad Apple: It's a prestige thing. The UFC debut inside THE Madison Square Garden is a big deal even tho they've already done a dozen shows in NJ.

Yeap, MSG is one of the top fighting if no THE top venue

One Bad Apple: Renzo Gracie ran a dojo there but I don't know if it's still open today

The Renzo Academy still there and growing

ihatedumbpeople: DOn't know anyone with knowledge of those two fighters that predicted the fight to go long.

This

LegacyDL: Good thing that fight wasn't Dragonball Z, hell we would be waiting 3 weeks for the first round to end.

Yes, but only in the American version, which also is stripped from more awesome fighting

Klippoklondike: Flappyhead
The UFC went into this trying to introduce new fans to MMA and explain what it is and isn't. In those regards they did a good job.

I don't think they did a good job with that at all. There was a very brief introduction on the history of the ufc and the rest was pro-Velasquez talk from the analysts and Dana. I expected more on the rules of mma and what is/is not legal. I do think they'll do a better job next time, though. This was just a teaser and not even part of the contract between Fox and UFC, so they're only going to improve with each show. Future shows will also have 3 or 4 fights, so things ought to get better.

/did anyone like the football music? I found it distracting.

Yeah the analyst shiat was annoying but that's FOX for you. I caught the Sportsnet broadcast so a lot of that crap didn't reach my screen(caught some of it afterwards). I should have prefaced my post by saying I was getting the Canada feed, which I think was much tighter than the American one.

has anyone mentioned how homo the "sport" is yet?

schemy: has anyone mentioned how homo the "sport" is yet?

I'd think it'd only be "homo" to gay people. Kind of how you see reality through your own prism.

schemy: has anyone mentioned how homo the "sport" is yet?

If two men punching, kicking and elbowing the crap out of each other seems gay to you, well....

Flappyhead: That's a mighty big number you're throwing out there, got anything to back it up with? I watched the fight with several freinds who'd never seen an MMA match before( I was explaining the various rules throughout the broadcast) and they enjoyed it. Sure it was quck but the sudden ending was exiting.

If you were discussing the rules of the game for long at all the broadcast was a failure. It means you weren't actually watching what they were airing. It just happened to be on.

SharkTrager: Flappyhead: That's a mighty big number you're throwing out there, got anything to back it up with? I watched the fight with several freinds who'd never seen an MMA match before( I was explaining the various rules throughout the broadcast) and they enjoyed it. Sure it was quck but the sudden ending was exiting.

If you were discussing the rules of the game for long at all the broadcast was a failure. It means you weren't actually watching what they were airing. It just happened to be on.

Again, I'm in Canada so I got the Guida fight. It made it easier to explain things as they were happening.

I never really understood UFC. I mean how can you be the ultimate anthing if you are only fighting guys in your own weight class and you are wearing gloves, and there is a new event every few months.

I always thought if they really wanted to make MMA a real Ultimate Fighting Champion thing they should make it like a real world version of The World Warrior tournament from Street Fighter (minus the fireballs and electrified beasts). I don't really care to see two guys around the same size rolling around together, but I would love to see a sumo wrestler fight a boxer or a muay thai guy, or a karate black belt fight a russian wrestler.

mechgreg: I never really understood UFC. I mean how can you be the ultimate anthing if you are only fighting guys in your own weight class and you are wearing gloves, and there is a new event every few months.

I always thought if they really wanted to make MMA a real Ultimate Fighting Champion thing they should make it like a real world version of The World Warrior tournament from Street Fighter (minus the fireballs and electrified beasts). I don't really care to see two guys around the same size rolling around together, but I would love to see a sumo wrestler fight a boxer or a muay thai guy, or a karate black belt fight a russian wrestler.

Then you are about 15 years too late. The UFC came to the US in 1993 from Brazil. The earliest versions had no weight classes, no time limits and biting and eye gouging were discouraged only by $1k fines. Rorion Gracie came up with an idea to advertise the Gracie family version of jujitsu. It was essentially an open casting call for a martial arts infomercial broadcast on pay per view. There were also a few short lived imitators.

600 pound sumo guys fighting 180 pound kempo karate guy ? They had that. Kung fu ? Yup. Bruce Lee's Jeet Kun Do ? They had a few guys show up. A ninjer or two showed up as well. Even really obscure shiat like penkak silat. The reason you only see certain arts today is that those are the ones that weren't laughably useless when used against a living, resisting non compliant opponent.


The "style vs style" era only lasted about 5 years or so. If a single martial art could be declared the winner it would be Brazilian jujitsu. If nothing else that era taught SERIOUS martial artists (not the LARPing anime ninja fanbois) that if you or your art cannot deal with grappling by either preventing the take down or being dangerous when on the ground you are dead meat when facing even a halfway decent grappler. Now everyone cross trains at a minimum in at least 2 martial arts. One for standing up and one for ground work. Not even the Gracies themselves rely solely on a single art anymore.


The only thing I've never seen is aikido and I don't consider that a martial art. It's just and excuse for grown men to wear dresses and hold hands.

Youtube is your friend :

Vale Tudo
Rio Heroes
NHB(no holds barred)
UFC 1-6 (if you can find it)

Don't get all butthurt if you see your favorite Hollywood movie martial art get exposed as a joke. I had my own preconceptions too. You'll get over it.

One Bad Apple: mechgreg: I never really understood UFC. I mean how can you be the ultimate anthing if you are only fighting guys in your own weight class and you are wearing gloves, and there is a new event every few months.

I always thought if they really wanted to make MMA a real Ultimate Fighting Champion thing they should make it like a real world version of The World Warrior tournament from Street Fighter (minus the fireballs and electrified beasts). I don't really care to see two guys around the same size rolling around together, but I would love to see a sumo wrestler fight a boxer or a muay thai guy, or a karate black belt fight a russian wrestler.

Then you are about 15 years too late. The UFC came to the US in 1993 from Brazil. The earliest versions had no weight classes, no time limits and biting and eye gouging were discouraged only by $1k fines. Rorion Gracie came up with an idea to advertise the Gracie family version of jujitsu. It was essentially an open casting call for a martial arts infomercial broadcast on pay per view. There were also a few short lived imitators.

600 pound sumo guys fighting 180 pound kempo karate guy ? They had that. Kung fu ? Yup. Bruce Lee's Jeet Kun Do ? They had a few guys show up. A ninjer or two showed up as well. Even really obscure shiat like penkak silat. The reason you only see certain arts today is that those are the ones that weren't laughably useless when used against a living, resisting non compliant opponent.


The "style vs style" era only lasted about 5 years or so. If a single martial art could be declared the winner it would be Brazilian jujitsu. If nothing else that era taught SERIOUS martial artists (not the LARPing anime ninja fanbois) that if you or your art cannot deal with grappling by either preventing the take down or being dangerous when on the ground you are dead meat when facing even a halfway decent grappler. Now everyone cross trains at a minimum in at least 2 martial arts. One for standing up and one for ground work. Not even the Gracies themselves rely solely on a single art anymore.


The only thing I've never seen is aikido and I don't consider that a martial art. It's just and excuse for grown men to wear dresses and hold hands.

Youtube is your friend :

Vale Tudo
Rio Heroes
NHB(no holds barred)
UFC 1-6 (if you can find it)

Don't get all butthurt if you see your favorite Hollywood movie martial art get exposed as a joke. I had my own preconceptions too. You'll get over it.

That's interesting I remember seeing a few of the early UFC videos years ago (like in the 90s back when I was in university), then I watched a UFC thing on tv a little while ago and I was disappointed to see how different it was. I get why it become more basic with less fighting styles involved, and I assume that they added weight classes because if everyone is using the same or similar styles then weight plays a much bigger role. But why did the add gloves, and drop the tournament style events?

FirstNationalBastard: Flappyhead: schemy: has anyone mentioned how homo the "sport" is yet?

If two men punching, kicking and elbowing the crap out of each other seems gay to you, well....

...odds are he enjoys being punched in the mouth with a penis?

No. But you obviously have a hook, line and sinker in your mouth. u dope.

fark is too easy anymore.

schemy:
No. But you obviously have a hook, line and sinker in your mouth. u dope.

fark is too easy anymore.

Oh look, it's another fool who thinks he's successfully trolling an MMA thread. Quick word of advice, the whole "It's gay lol" crap was played out a long time ago, find a new schtick. If you're getting replies it's because we're laughing at you.

mechgreg: That's interesting I remember seeing a few of the early UFC videos years ago (like in the 90s back when I was in university), then I watched a UFC thing on tv a little while ago and I was disappointed to see how different it was. I get why it become more basic with less fighting styles involved, and I assume that they added weight classes because if everyone is using the same or similar styles then weight plays a much bigger role. But why did the add gloves, and drop the tournament style events?

Sanctioning. The old UFC fights were not sanctioned by any athletic commisions and were very limited in terms of venues and public appeal. The gloves, weight classes etc were brought in to legitimize(not to mention legalize) the sport. If you're interested in tournament style events dig up some PRIDE FC DVDs, their Middleweight and Heavyweight Grand Prix' are the stuff of legend. The primary reason you don't see those anymore is because more than one fight per evening is far too draining and the later matches can be horribly dull.

mechgreg: I never really understood UFC. I mean how can you be the ultimate anthing if you are only fighting guys in your own weight class and you are wearing gloves, and there is a new event every few months.

I always thought if they really wanted to make MMA a real Ultimate Fighting Champion thing they should make it like a real world version of The World Warrior tournament from Street Fighter (minus the fireballs and electrified beasts). I don't really care to see two guys around the same size rolling around together, but I would love to see a sumo wrestler fight a boxer or a muay thai guy, or a karate black belt fight a russian wrestler.

They totally did all that, yep. It's not that the UFC ignores certain martial arts. It's that MMA has shown, through a brutally Darwinian process, what techniques work and what techniques get your head caved in (sumo is less than effective).

The weight-classes is more to just differentiate that now that the skill-levels have become relatively standardized, it's more interesting to watch a series of classes than the same 30 guys fighting (the heavyweights).

mechgreg:

That's interesting I remember seeing a few of the early UFC videos years ago (like in the 90s back when I was in university), then I watched a UFC thing on tv a little while ago and I was disappointed to see how different it was. I get why it become more basic with less fighting styles involved, and I assume that they added weight classes because if everyone is using the same or similar styles then weight plays a much bigger role. But why did the add gloves, and drop the tournament style events?


You're right about the weight classes being introduced to level the field AFTER the style vs style debate was settled because along with it went the question of can a smaller guy with skill beat a much larger/stronger guy with less skill.

The elimination of the 8 or 16 man tourney format and glove usage however came about for more pragmatic reasons than appeasing politicians : Too many show shortening injuries.

Gloves aren't used to protect the other guy's head so the first few tourneys saw a lot of broken fingers. One show ended a full bracket early because even tho fighters won they were not medically cleared to continue. It wasn't considered fair that an alternate could jump in at the very end well rested and not a scratch on him to face a guy that had fought 2 people already that night.