I like her reaction. She seemed human there for a few seconds.

Did she grow her hair out? She looks way different.

Bill on his way to the cigar shop?

I'll admit, I used to loathe her, but she's done a pretty bang up job as Sec State. I wonder if she'll run in 2016.

At first I was like



but then


I LOL'D

Shrugging Atlas: I'll admit, I used to loathe her, but she's done a pretty bang up job as Sec State. I wonder if she'll run in 2016.

You can almost count on it... she is extraordinarily shrewd and knows how to play the political game as well as, if not better than anyone. I don't say this as a fan, just acknowledging her political skill. Keep a low profile for 8 years, avoid conflict and confrontation as SecState, gain the trust of international leaders, and come 2016, she's almost guaranteed to be a shoo-in for the Democratic nomination. Plus, her spell as First Lady from the 90s will be a distant memory by then- the Republicans will do their absolute best to destroy her with old sound bites, etc, but by 2016 she will seem much more matronly and have a sterling record of service over the past 8 years (assuming she doesn't do anything stupid) that she can point to.

This is all just guesswork of course, but it seems rather likely.

Wow. She looks incredibly like my grandmother there, even to the hairstyle.

Staged!

At least the surprise wasn't this:

one0nine: Shrugging Atlas: I'll admit, I used to loathe her, but she's done a pretty bang up job as Sec State. I wonder if she'll run in 2016.

You can almost count on it... she is extraordinarily shrewd and knows how to play the political game as well as, if not better than anyone. I don't say this as a fan, just acknowledging her political skill. Keep a low profile for 8 years, avoid conflict and confrontation as SecState, gain the trust of international leaders, and come 2016, she's almost guaranteed to be a shoo-in for the Democratic nomination. Plus, her spell as First Lady from the 90s will be a distant memory by then- the Republicans will do their absolute best to destroy her with old sound bites, etc, but by 2016 she will seem much more matronly and have a sterling record of service over the past 8 years (assuming she doesn't do anything stupid) that she can point to.

This is all just guesswork of course, but it seems rather likely.

..except every indication is that if/when Obama gets re-elected, she's stepping down.
I do agree that she's been doing a stellar job as SecState, and I'm certainly no fan of hers (in regards to domestic policy).

one0nine: Keep a low profile for 8 years, avoid conflict and confrontation as SecState,

Being Secretary of State makes it pretty much impossible to keep a low profile and avoid conflict and confrontation.

LaViergeNoire: I can has Clinton/Warren 2016?

/was that a security breach?

Well, considering that it occurred on the grounds of a hotel owned and run by the Defense Dept, in the middle of a (very tiny) military base in Waikiki, I doubt it.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the proper way for a politician to respond to pranking incidents, if you weren't aware. Now Hilary Clinton is a good-humored, fun-loving dame, instead of a vengeful fuddy-duddy abusing her position and authority to indulge some petty vengeful feelings. Now everyone who hears about this will say to themselves "I guess Hilary Clinton ain't so bad, after all" and make nice jokes about the incident casting her in a good light, instead of saying "wow, what a prick way to handle the situation" and generally resenting her in future for being heavy-handed and self-important.

Dansker: one0nine: Keep a low profile for 8 years, avoid conflict and confrontation as SecState,

Being Secretary of State makes it pretty much impossible to keep a low profile and avoid conflict and confrontation.

He means regarding US politics. She's most certainly been aggressive vis a vis foreign policy (which given the average US citizen's hunger for hegemony will only be to her benefit) but she's been seen as a team player in Obama's admin, and has done a great job of not letting the Republicans pull her into the partisan muck that is US domestic policy. Dong a good job with an overseas portfolio is usually helpful in US politics; it makes you look statesmanly and civic-minded while at the same time keeping you clean of all the mudslinging that typifies our political media.

Shrugging Atlas: I'll admit, I used to loathe her, but she's done a pretty bang up job as Sec State. I wonder if she'll run in 2016.

I rest my case.

The Bestest: ..except every indication is that if/when Obama gets re-elected, she's stepping down.
I do agree that she's been doing a stellar job as SecState, and I'm certainly no fan of hers (in regards to domestic policy).

She has done several interviews where she has indicated she may not even stay on as Sec of State if Obama is re-elected. I'm definitely not a fan of hers, but she has gone through enough media bs the last run that I think she realizes she doesn't want to have to prove anything to anyone anymore.

Heron: Dansker: one0nine: Keep a low profile for 8 years, avoid conflict and confrontation as SecState,

Being Secretary of State makes it pretty much impossible to keep a low profile and avoid conflict and confrontation.

He means regarding US politics. She's most certainly been aggressive vis a vis foreign policy (which given the average US citizen's hunger for hegemony will only be to her benefit) but she's been seen as a team player in Obama's admin, and has done a great job of not letting the Republicans pull her into the partisan muck that is US domestic policy. DongDoing a good job with an overseas portfolio is usually helpful in US politics; it makes you look statesmanly and civic-minded while at the same time keeping you clean of all the mudslinging that typifies our political media.

Fie on this mutinous keyboard! FIE I SAY!

FTFM :-/

Skleenar: LaViergeNoire: I can has Clinton/Warren 2016?

/was that a security breach?

Well, considering that it occurred on the grounds of a hotel owned and run by the Defense Dept, in the middle of a (very tiny) military base in Waikiki, I doubt it.

Citation on the location? Just curious. I can't find anything about where this occurred, and it looks more like Ko Olina than Waikiki to me, which is where the APEC summit was meeting on Sunday (and maybe Saturday).

one0nine: Shrugging Atlas: I'll admit, I used to loathe her, but she's done a pretty bang up job as Sec State. I wonder if she'll run in 2016.

You can almost count on it... she is extraordinarily shrewd and knows how to play the political game as well as, if not better than anyone. I don't say this as a fan, just acknowledging her political skill. Keep a low profile for 8 years, avoid conflict and confrontation as SecState, gain the trust of international leaders, and come 2016, she's almost guaranteed to be a shoo-in for the Democratic nomination. Plus, her spell as First Lady from the 90s will be a distant memory by then- the Republicans will do their absolute best to destroy her with old sound bites, etc, but by 2016 she will seem much more matronly and have a sterling record of service over the past 8 years (assuming she doesn't do anything stupid) that she can point to.

This is all just guesswork of course, but it seems rather likely.

Agreed. I would really like her to run in 2016. She seems like she has matured and/or loosened up quite a bit since the '08 presidential race. She seems much more human and likeable recently, and those were perhaps her two biggest failings. She certainly is highly intelligent and has good ideas and experience, but in 2008 her complete lack of personality got clobbered by Obama's high levels of charisma.

Plus, I think that if we're going to have a female president within the next 20-30 years, Hillary may be our best shot. No other prominent women in government that I can think of are anywhere near as well qualified. Hillary 2016!

NobleHam: Citation on the location? Just curious. I can't find anything about where this occurred, and it looks more like Ko Olina than Waikiki to me, which is where the APEC summit was meeting on Sunday (and maybe Saturday).

Well, I'll be damned..

I thought the whole thing was going to be at the Hale Koa.

Hmmmm.................

I guess I stand presumably corrected.

HMS_Blinkin: [snip] Hillary 2016!

The only problem, now that I looked it up, will be her age. Hillary will be 69-70 yrs old during the 2016 race, which is a little old for presidential candidates. On the other hand, women are longer-lived than men on average and if she takes good care of herself she could be reasonably vital in 4 years.

Heron: Dansker: one0nine: Keep a low profile for 8 years, avoid conflict and confrontation as SecState,

Being Secretary of State makes it pretty much impossible to keep a low profile and avoid conflict and confrontation.

He means regarding US politics. She's most certainly been aggressive vis a vis foreign policy (which given the average US citizen's hunger for hegemony will only be to her benefit) but she's been seen as a team player in Obama's admin, and has done a great job of not letting the Republicans pull her into the partisan muck that is US domestic policy. Dong a good job with an overseas portfolio is usually helpful in US politics; it makes you look statesmanly and civic-minded while at the same time keeping you clean of all the mudslinging that typifies our political media.

Fair enough, but is the Sec. of State's purview really that far removed from the US political consciousness? The partisan arguing over e.g Libya seems to indicate that foreign affairs and the domestic political debate aren't completely isolated from eachother.

Has a Secretary of State ever gone on to take the precidency?

Also, I remember that, right up until the moment Barack Obama began to look like he could win the nomination in 2008, Hillary Clinton was one of the most hated and polarizing political figures in the US, on both sides. Are those feelings completely gone? Or is the public memory just that short.

NobleHam: it looks more like Ko Olina

And that little body of water behind them DOES look a lot like the swimming coves at Ko Olina.

I guess I just thought it was a Koi pond or something when I assumed this was the Hale Koa.

Pants full of macaroni!!: Surprised this wasn't the Boobies.

Fitting, for a Clinton thread.

Skleenar: NobleHam: Citation on the location? Just curious. I can't find anything about where this occurred, and it looks more like Ko Olina than Waikiki to me, which is where the APEC summit was meeting on Sunday (and maybe Saturday).

Well, I'll be damned..

I thought the whole thing was going to be at the Hale Koa.

Hmmmm.................

I guess I stand presumably corrected.

You could still be right, I dunno whether they were at Hale Koa or Ihilani on Saturday.

HMS_Blinkin: HMS_Blinkin: [snip] Hillary 2016!

The only problem, now that I looked it up, will be her age. Hillary will be 69-70 yrs old during the 2016 race, which is a little old for presidential candidates.

Dansker: Has a Secretary of State ever gone on to take the precidency?

It's not unprecedented but it hasn't happened recently. These are the Sec of State(s) who went on to become president:

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Martin Van Buren
James Buchanan

So that last time a former SecState was a sitting president was 1861, but it has happened before.

The Bestest: HMS_Blinkin: HMS_Blinkin: [snip] Hillary 2016!

The only problem, now that I looked it up, will be her age. Hillary will be 69-70 yrs old during the 2016 race, which is a little old for presidential candidates.

[stupidsenators.com image 439x599][www.pitch.com image 536x750]

Well, they certainly were candidates.

Ok just an observation as a non-american but it seems to me having a Female President would cause an even bigger brain snap in the US of A than say a Black Man...

HMS_Blinkin: Dansker: Has a Secretary of State ever gone on to take the precidency?

It's not unprecedented but it hasn't happened recently. These are the Sec of State(s) who went on to become president:

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Martin Van Buren
James Buchanan

So that last time a former SecState was a sitting president was 1861, but it has happened before.

So, not since the US became a superpower and got seriously involved in global politics and warfare.
And thanks. Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew about Jefferson, but not the others.

I love Hillary. Should would have made an excellent president.

Why would they not take pictures of the half-naked man carrying fire?!

Poopin' on the beach. Brrrrup doo di doo
Poopin' on the beach. Brrrrup do dit doo


Is that dog pooping across the cay?

HMS_Blinkin: HMS_Blinkin: [snip] Hillary 2016!

The only problem, now that I looked it up, will be her age. Hillary will be 69-70 yrs old during the 2016 race, which is a little old for presidential candidates. On the other hand, women are longer-lived than men on average and if she takes good care of herself she could be reasonably vital in 4 years.

Also, older women seem grandmotherly and dignified. Older men don't have the same good image.

strapp3r: I BLAME LAIRD

I BLAME LARD

Heron: I rest my case.

Rest what case? I merely stated she's done well as Secretary State, which she has by any metric you care to apply. A fact I find noteworthy since I used to loathe her as politician. She carpetbagged the NY Senate seat, and ran a horrible campaign for President. It has nothing to do with this incident one way or another.

Here he comes! Boogedy, boogedy!

Dansker: Heron: Dansker: one0nine: Keep a low profile for 8 years, avoid conflict and confrontation as SecState,

Being Secretary of State makes it pretty much impossible to keep a low profile and avoid conflict and confrontation.

He means regarding US politics. She's most certainly been aggressive vis a vis foreign policy (which given the average US citizen's hunger for hegemony will only be to her benefit) but she's been seen as a team player in Obama's admin, and has done a great job of not letting the Republicans pull her into the partisan muck that is US domestic policy. Dong a good job with an overseas portfolio is usually helpful in US politics; it makes you look statesmanly and civic-minded while at the same time keeping you clean of all the mudslinging that typifies our political media.

Fair enough, but is the Sec. of State's purview really that far removed from the US political consciousness? The partisan arguing over e.g Libya seems to indicate that foreign affairs and the domestic political debate aren't completely isolated from eachother.

Has a Secretary of State ever gone on to take the precidency?

Also, I remember that, right up until the moment Barack Obama began to look like he could win the nomination in 2008, Hillary Clinton was one of the most hated and polarizing political figures in the US, on both sides. Are those feelings completely gone? Or is the public memory just that short.

Most of the animus coming out of Libya has been directed at Obama himself, not his foreign policy staff, so I think Mrs. Clinton "safe" right there, at least until someone tries to make a campaign issue out of it if she ran in 2016, and even if they did, the whole Libya exercise, as questionably legal as it was, is generally popular with the public right now so I don't think it'd hurt her too bad.

As to the decade-long hate directed toward her from the Rs, and the general desire on the part of Dem voters not to let the Clintons turn into a political dynasty, I think you're right that those are more problematic questions. Regarding the Rs' objections to her, I think that by 2016 her "misdeeds" during the 90s will seem too far in the past for most voters to get worked up about, particularly if she continues to work on humanizing her image with laid-back reactions like this, and her generally informal tone during press conferences. As a result, I'd imagine her time as a Senator and then Secretary of State, as well as her personalty, would be bigger issues in any campaign. Her time as a Senator was typified by generally avoiding any controversial stances, and her time as Secretary of State has been pretty conventional, too (though to be fair, even if it was divisive, it's pretty hard to get Americans worked up about foreign policy). By then, also, the electorate will have shifted more in favor of the Dems, with fewer old folks patently against a liberal female pol just on principle, and more "young" post-feminist voters willing to give her a shot in the voter base.

The issue with Dem voters is trickier, particularly in light of the hardening attitudes among liberals towards the elites and particularly the Robert Rubin/Third Way/Clinton approach to politics and the economy which Mrs. Clinton is powerfully associated with. There are plenty of voters, particularly in the boomer camp, who would love to see her run again because they see her as capable, competent, reliable on culture war issues, and an unapologetic example of female success (i.e. victory over the forces of reactionary conservatism). Younger voters, however -those of the John Stewart and later generations- aren't as sold on Clinton due to her conservative stances on censorship, her dismissive statements regarding their generations (as Senator she had a few "Get a Job, Hippies" moments), and their tendency to be closer to the "radical" and "progressive" left, both of which felt farked over by Clintons. Plus, the Clinton faction in the party has been the open enemy of many of the intra-party groups that younger Dem voters have been drawn to; first Dean's campaign and party admin, then Obama's grass-roots organizations, which were basically dismantled by the Clinton faction when Obama aligned with them after his election.

So I don't know; while I do think humanizing events like the one under discussion, and her time as SecState, have worked wonders for her image, and will be helpful if she decides to run in 2016, and I think Republican objections to such a run will seem really lukewarm and irrelevant (unless some huge event comes up between now and then that's easy to partisanize), I also think her position among Leftists, particularly among those likely to vote in primaries, is pretty shaky for reasons purely of party philosophy and party structure, and that stuff like this might not do much to fix those issues. The folks who sat out Bush/Gore or voted for Nader are far more engaged in the process these days, and if they legitimately feel that Clinton is still aligned with "the interests", or that letting her get the nom will set a dangerous aristocratic precedent, then I'd imagine they'd oppose her just as firmly as before.

That's kind of a long answer to a three-sentence question, but it's how l analyze the situation.

HairyOne: Ok just an observation as a non-american but it seems to me having a Female President would cause an even bigger brain snap in the US of A than say a Black Man...

No it wouldn't. I won't jump down your throat about it, but trust me as a Texan; there are few things that compare to the animus of the Confederate-identifying White US male than a powerful, successful, eloquent, calm, mixed-race African-American male not married to a white woman (the neo-confederate male tends to fantasize obsessively about the lust of black men for white women, and seem genuinely offended by the suggestion that such a lust isn't really prevalent). Honestly, the only way Obama could have hit more Conservative Reactionary buttons is if he were a Unitarian.

Shrugging Atlas: Heron: I rest my case.

Rest what case? I merely stated she's done well as Secretary State, which she has by any metric you care to apply. A fact I find noteworthy since I used to loathe her as politician. She carpetbagged the NY Senate seat, and ran a horrible campaign for President. It has nothing to do with this incident one way or another.

That was my point, that her time as SecState and humanizing events like this have done wonders for her image, increasing the likelihood of a successful pres run on her part. That's what my first three posts were about.

Agreed with everyone, Hillary is terrific as Secretary of State. Obama hit a jackpot appointing her.

I like Clinton, but I don't see her running in 2016. She's very good at her jobs, but she's never been a good campaigner, and would be a bit old for the office by the time she could run. I'd be very interested to see who she endorses, though.

Heron: HairyOne: Ok just an observation as a non-american but it seems to me having a Female President would cause an even bigger brain snap in the US of A than say a Black Man...

No it wouldn't. I won't jump down your throat about it, but trust me as a Texan; there are few things that compare to the animus of the Confederate-identifying White US male thantowards a powerful, successful, eloquent, calm, mixed-race African-American male not married to a white woman (the neo-confederate male tends to fantasize obsessively about the lust of black men for white women, and seem genuinely offended by the suggestion that such a lust isn't really prevalent). Honestly, the only way Obama could have hit more Conservative Reactionary buttons is if he were a Unitarian.

D'oh, this is what I get for changing tack in my head three times during one sentence.

FTFM

Tusz: I like Clinton, but I don't see her running in 2016. She's very good at her jobs, but she's never been a good campaigner, and would be a bit old for the office by the time she could run. I'd be very interested to see who she endorses, though.

I wasn't really considering the age issue at the start of this thread, but I think you and the others who bring it up have a point. She may desire, and have greater success, playing the role of elder Stateswoman, adviser, and King-maker than as an actual candidate in 2016.