Denver - Moreno out, Orton out
Kansas City - Jamaal out, Cassel out
Oakland - McFadden out, Campbell out
San Diego - Sucks

netweavr: Denver - Moreno out, Orton out
Kansas City - Jamaal out, Cassel out
Oakland - McFadden out, Campbell out
San Diego - Sucks

This!

I've been a charger fan my whole life but I'm sick of this sh*t. I refuse to watch them play another game until norv or aj are gone

exick: SoCalSurfer: I've been a charger fan my whole life but I'm sick of this sh*t. I refuse to watch them play another game until norv or aj are gone

Living in L.A., I know a lot of people who are Charger fans simply because the Rams were gone and they always hated the Raiders. I warned them about Norv and they didn't listen. "Wooo! Norv Turner ain't gonna be able to mess this up. We got LDT, Rivers, Sproles, Gates, Cromartie, Merriman! 14-2 with Marty, it doesn't even matter who the coach is!"

Yeah, La.......if the chargers move to LA I'll be buying a raider jersey

mitchcumstein1: netweavr: Denver - Moreno out, Orton out
Kansas City - Jamaal out, Cassel out
Oakland - McFadden out, Campbell out
San Diego - Sucks

I'd say Oakland upgraded at quarterback.

This thing is fixing to ugly in Kansas City.

Not to mention that Michael Bush is good enough to start for most teams. Out of that list, KC is the most screwed, followed by the Chargers because Rivers is a little biatch and Norv couldn't lead a crew at Taco Bell much less 53 men on an NFL team.

mitchcumstein1: netweavr: Denver - Moreno out, Orton out
Kansas City - Jamaal out, Cassel out
Oakland - McFadden out, Campbell out
San Diego - Sucks

I'd say Oakland upgraded at quarterback.

This thing is fixing to ugly in Kansas City.

They downgraded.

Wild Card'

/Da Bears
//4 AFC West games in a row

bighasbeen: SoCalSurfer: exick: SoCalSurfer: I've been a charger fan my whole life but I'm sick of this sh*t. I refuse to watch them play another game until norv or aj are gone

Living in L.A., I know a lot of people who are Charger fans simply because the Rams were gone and they always hated the Raiders. I warned them about Norv and they didn't listen. "Wooo! Norv Turner ain't gonna be able to mess this up. We got LDT, Rivers, Sproles, Gates, Cromartie, Merriman! 14-2 with Marty, it doesn't even matter who the coach is!"

Yeah, La.......if the chargers move to LA I'll be buying a raider jersey

I want a team with zero roots in Southern California (no Rams, no Raiders, no Chargers). I would like to see LA get a rebranded team we could all get behind from the start without having any leftover baggage.

Chargers started in LA

mitchcumstein1: netweavr: Denver - Moreno out, Orton out
Kansas City - Jamaal out, Cassel out
Oakland - McFadden out, Campbell out
San Diego - Sucks

I'd say Oakland upgraded at quarterback.

This thing is fixing to ugly in Kansas City.

Check my handle, I'm a fan. So far this season they lost Pro-Bowlers Charles, Cassel (meh), and Berry (that hurt). Moeaki was a big loss too. Big problem when you have zero depth at QB, TE and Safety. Couple of RB's have made a great effort to fill in, but just don't have the talent.

/Jeez Cassel sucks without a running game. Seriously, someone protect the guy on passing downs.

I remember watching the playoff game that got marty fired. Funny stuff. Always fall down when you intercept the ball with the lead and have little time on the clock.

SoCalSurfer: netweavr: Denver - Moreno out, Orton out
Kansas City - Jamaal out, Cassel out
Oakland - McFadden out, Campbell out
San Diego - Sucks

This!

I've been a charger fan my whole life but I'm sick of this sh*t. I refuse to watch them play another game until norv or aj are gone

Long time Bolts fan here too and this year I've totally checked out. Most seasons I'd desperately be doing the playoff math and praying for a late run but I find myself watching the games with disinterest and almost hoping for a loss in hopes the owners will finally clean house. I've been against Norv since day one (huge Marty fan) and now even some of my family are starting to come around on the fact that Norv is at best an coordinator in this league.

He's in the same company as Wade Phillips and Cam Cameron. Born assistants, not leaders. Only difference is those teams cut their losses but of course we have a genius GM who can never admit to being wrong (how long did it take him to fire Cottrell again?).

gokc69: Jeez Cassel sucks without a running game. Seriously, someone protect the guy on passing downs

I've also heard the stiff they've been trotting out at RT (Barry Richardson?) hasn't helped matters either. And can we all admit Glenn Dorsey wasn't worth the price of admission?

Is any team in the AFC West still using its first-string RB and QB?

Nope. Your mom ate them all.

As a Chiefs fan, I'm looking forward to the Palko era. Cassel is simply not good enough.

/is Garrard still available? Orton? George?

Mateorocks: As a Chiefs fan, I'm looking forward to the Palko era. Cassel is simply not good enough.

/is Garrard still available? Orton? George?

Delhomme

Mateorocks: As a Chiefs fan, I'm looking forward to the Palko era. Cassel is simply not good enough.

/is Garrard still available? Orton? George?

JaMarcus Russell for the lulz.

Chiefs fan. I would take Tyler Thigpen back at this point in time.

mitchcumstein1: netweavr: Denver - Moreno out, Orton out
Kansas City - Jamaal out, Cassel out
Oakland - McFadden out, Campbell out
San Diego - Sucks

I'd say Oakland upgraded at quarterback.

This thing is fixing to ugly in Kansas City.

Maybe long term. Maybe. Campbell was exactly what the Raiders needed on offense.

It also hurts that they all have to play the NFC North and AFC East this year. If you look at the remaining schedules, San Diego has already gone through their brutal part of it while everyone else has some more difficult teams to go through.

This is going to come down to the game at Oakland at the end of the year. They'll both be 7-8 and the winner will take the division.

netweavr: Denver - Moreno out, Orton out
Kansas City - Jamaal out, Cassel out
Oakland - McFadden out, Campbell out
San Diego - Sucks

McGahee has been the starter most of the season, and Tebow has been promoted to starter, so this isn't ENTIRELY accurate.

But yeah, it's sad what this division has become.

It's about to become a dumpster fire in KC. Next 5 games...Pats, Steelers, Bears, Jets, and Packers.

mitchcumstein1: A guy who can hand it to McFadden and Bush? With Palmer the Raiders at least have the threat of putting it in the air, I fail to see how that's not an upgrade.

Basically. Campbell makes few big mistakes and can make the necessary throws. Doesn't go full DAGRON. I like Palmer, but he's a wildcard at this point in his career. The Raiders success window is now, as they have the best team they've had in a decade and the rest of the division is so completely inept and unlikely to stay so bad for more than a few years.

sammyk: Mateorocks: As a Chiefs fan, I'm looking forward to the Palko era. Cassel is simply not good enough.

/is Garrard still available? Orton? George?

Bronco fan praying you get Orton.

DAMMIT ORTON!

/didn't see anybody else stepping up, so I decided to get that out of the way :P

Ken VeryBigLiar: gokc69: Jeez Cassel sucks without a running game. Seriously, someone protect the guy on passing downs

I've also heard the stiff they've been trotting out at RT (Barry Richardson?) hasn't helped matters either. And can we all admit Glenn Dorsey wasn't worth the price of admission?

Might as well throw Jackson on that pile, too. He and Dorsey represent a two-year period of draft failure.

mitchcumstein1:
/Seriously Raiders, how the fark are you not running away with this division?
//Oh right, you're the Raiders.

In their defense they have been hit hard by the injury bug and it took a couple of games to get the dust knocked off Palmer. Their secondary has been patchwork the last 3 games and losing your QB is always a huge hit. Still they are the best prepared of the 4 teams to come out of it. Give them a minute.

I feel for you, AFC West. The NFC West isn't astounding anyone either, outside of SF whom I hate.

joepainter: It's about to become a dumpster fire in KC. Next 5 games...Pats, Steelers, Bears, Jets, and Packers.

Holy crap, that's a hell of a schedule.

/Bears fan

I do not understand you people who are fans of divisions. I blame college football for this derp.

gokc69: Might as well throw Jackson on that pile, too. He and Dorsey represent a two-year period of draft failure

Jackson (from what I've seen) can at least hold an edge and get a modicum of pressure. Was he worth the third pick? No, but when your draft history of D-linemen the past ten years includes the likes of Dorsey and Ryan Sims he's really not all that bad.

Harv72b: mikaloyd: I do not understand you people who are fans of divisions. I blame college football for this derp.

Totally guilty of being a fan of the AFC North. With the way the schedules are set up & the way local network affiliates tend to broadcast divisional games, it's almost a natural thing to fall into. In my case, it's also easy as all four division teams tend to go for the same style of play. Which is a style of play I greatly approve of.

The Ravens and Steelers have the same style of play as the Bengals?

mitchcumstein1: gokc69: mitchcumstein1: bhcompy: mitchcumstein1: netweavr:
Maybe long term. Maybe. Campbell was exactly what the Raiders needed on offense.

A guy who can hand it to McFadden and Bush? With Palmer the Raiders at least have the threat of putting it in the air, I fail to see how that's not an upgrade.

Carson Palmer: 7 INTs in 3 games
Jason Campbell: 4 INTs in 5 and however many minutes he played in Cleveland

When you have Darren McFadden and Michael Bush, the key thing you don't want to do is turn the ball over, tiring your defense and possibly forcing you to the pass due to going down. Campbell might not have chucked it downfield very often, but he still had enough of an arm to attempt it.

Carson Palmer is the opposite of what the Raiders need right now.

Pratty: mitchcumstein1: gokc69: mitchcumstein1: bhcompy: mitchcumstein1: netweavr:
Maybe long term. Maybe. Campbell was exactly what the Raiders needed on offense.

A guy who can hand it to McFadden and Bush? With Palmer the Raiders at least have the threat of putting it in the air, I fail to see how that's not an upgrade.

Carson Palmer: 7 INTs in 3 games
Jason Campbell: 4 INTs in 5 and however many minutes he played in Cleveland

When you have Darren McFadden and Michael Bush, the key thing you don't want to do is turn the ball over, tiring your defense and possibly forcing you to the pass due to going down. Campbell might not have chucked it downfield very often, but he still had enough of an arm to attempt it.

Carson Palmer is the opposite of what the Raiders need right now.

I think it's fair to throw out the three against KC when he had been here all of four days after spending the first seven weeks of the regular season on his couch. I would even argue that throwing out the Denver game would be fair since Palmer didn't have a preseason. He looked like an NFL QB against San Diego. If that's the Carson Palmer the Raiders have the rest of the season, there is no doubt they have upgraded.

mjoven1975: Pratty: mitchcumstein1: gokc69: mitchcumstein1: bhcompy: mitchcumstein1: netweavr:
Maybe long term. Maybe. Campbell was exactly what the Raiders needed on offense.

A guy who can hand it to McFadden and Bush? With Palmer the Raiders at least have the threat of putting it in the air, I fail to see how that's not an upgrade.

Carson Palmer: 7 INTs in 3 games
Jason Campbell: 4 INTs in 5 and however many minutes he played in Cleveland

When you have Darren McFadden and Michael Bush, the key thing you don't want to do is turn the ball over, tiring your defense and possibly forcing you to the pass due to going down. Campbell might not have chucked it downfield very often, but he still had enough of an arm to attempt it.

Carson Palmer is the opposite of what the Raiders need right now.

I think it's fair to throw out the three against KC when he had been here all of four days after spending the first seven weeks of the regular season on his couch. I would even argue that throwing out the Denver game would be fair since Palmer didn't have a preseason. He looked like an NFL QB against San Diego. If that's the Carson Palmer the Raiders have the rest of the season, there is no doubt they have upgraded.

When you're throwing out 2/3rds of the games the guy has played this season, don't forget he threw 20 picks last year.

Pratty: mjoven1975: Pratty: mitchcumstein1: gokc69: mitchcumstein1: bhcompy: mitchcumstein1: netweavr:
Maybe long term. Maybe. Campbell was exactly what the Raiders needed on offense.

A guy who can hand it to McFadden and Bush? With Palmer the Raiders at least have the threat of putting it in the air, I fail to see how that's not an upgrade.

Carson Palmer: 7 INTs in 3 games
Jason Campbell: 4 INTs in 5 and however many minutes he played in Cleveland

When you have Darren McFadden and Michael Bush, the key thing you don't want to do is turn the ball over, tiring your defense and possibly forcing you to the pass due to going down. Campbell might not have chucked it downfield very often, but he still had enough of an arm to attempt it.

Carson Palmer is the opposite of what the Raiders need right now.

I think it's fair to throw out the three against KC when he had been here all of four days after spending the first seven weeks of the regular season on his couch. I would even argue that throwing out the Denver game would be fair since Palmer didn't have a preseason. He looked like an NFL QB against San Diego. If that's the Carson Palmer the Raiders have the rest of the season, there is no doubt they have upgraded.

When you're throwing out 2/3rds of the games the guy has played this season, don't forget he threw 20 picks last year.

I'll tell you what, you tell me which NFL QB can go from his couch to game action with a new team in a new system in less than a week and have better results? I think the guy deserves the benefit of the doubt for being rusty. The Carson Palmer I saw on Thursday against San Diego was a completely different guy than the one I saw off the bench against KC and against Denver. If the Carson Palmer that played against the Chargers is the one that's here the rest of the year, the Raiders have upgraded, period. I don't care what he did in Cincinnati last year with the diva receiving corps they had there.

Pratty:
When you're throwing out 2/3rds of the games the guy has played this season, don't forget he threw 20 picks last year.

I know some people get enamored with stats but not all INT's are the same. Look at the guy's 7 picks for what they are. The 3 vs. KC? As mjoven1975 pointed out Plamer had been on the team for 5 minutes and wasn't supposed to play in that game. No matter how far you are into your position on the debate you have to cut those 3 out as crap data. In the Denver game his 1st pick was a pass that hit his receiver in the hands, skipped off and fell to a defender. Not his fault. The other 2 in that game were legit bad passes but even one of them came in desperation time on his own end of the field and down by 2 scores. The other pick by the Chargers happened as the Raiders were about to score and a RB missed his block. Palmer was hit on the blind side right as he threw the ball and it fluttered into a defender. Again, not his fault.

In the end you have in 2 full games 2 INT's that you can pin on Palmer vs 5 TD's. Not great but considering he has gone from 3 in a half to 3 in one game to 1 in a game I think that is proof positive that he is improving. Not bad for a guy who was out of football 3 weeks ago. (Still not worth two possible #1 picks though ;-)

I give a crap less about last season when he was on a different team but even so he tossed 26 TD's to those 20 picks so he is ahead in that regard albeit barely. That was also less INT's than Breesus tossed with far better weapons so maybe cut the guy some slack.

mjoven1975: Pratty: mjoven1975: Pratty: mitchcumstein1: gokc69: mitchcumstein1: bhcompy: mitchcumstein1: netweavr:
Maybe long term. Maybe. Campbell was exactly what the Raiders needed on offense.

A guy who can hand it to McFadden and Bush? With Palmer the Raiders at least have the threat of putting it in the air, I fail to see how that's not an upgrade.

Carson Palmer: 7 INTs in 3 games
Jason Campbell: 4 INTs in 5 and however many minutes he played in Cleveland

When you have Darren McFadden and Michael Bush, the key thing you don't want to do is turn the ball over, tiring your defense and possibly forcing you to the pass due to going down. Campbell might not have chucked it downfield very often, but he still had enough of an arm to attempt it.

Carson Palmer is the opposite of what the Raiders need right now.

I think it's fair to throw out the three against KC when he had been here all of four days after spending the first seven weeks of the regular season on his couch. I would even argue that throwing out the Denver game would be fair since Palmer didn't have a preseason. He looked like an NFL QB against San Diego. If that's the Carson Palmer the Raiders have the rest of the season, there is no doubt they have upgraded.

When you're throwing out 2/3rds of the games the guy has played this season, don't forget he threw 20 picks last year.

I'll tell you what, you tell me which NFL QB can go from his couch to game action with a new team in a new system in less than a week and have better results? I think the guy deserves the benefit of the doubt for being rusty. The Carson Palmer I saw on Thursday against San Diego was a completely different guy than the one I saw off the bench against KC and against Denver. If the Carson Palmer that played against the Chargers is the one that's here the rest of the year, the Raiders have upgraded, period. I don't care what he did in Cincinnati last year with the diva receiving corps they had there.

Admittedly, I missed the Thursday game, so that might be coloring my perception some.

If he does good against Minnesota(And to a lesser extent, the Bears), I will admit I was wrong and that he just needed time to be acclimated. Part of it might just be a Bengals fan after seeing Palmer last year not having too much hope.

Pratty:
Admittedly, I missed the Thursday game, so that might be coloring my perception some.

If he does good against Minnesota(And to a lesser extent, the Bears), I will admit I was wrong and that he just needed time to be acclimated. Part of it might just be a Bengals fan after seeing Palmer last year not having too much hope.

Having grown up in Ohio I have a decent understanding of your pain as a Bengals fan. Although being a Raiders fan has hardly been an escape for myself. At least we are not Browns fans though right?

/poor bastards

mikaloyd: I do not understand you people who are fans of divisions. I blame college football for this derp.

Do you mean fans of having divisions, or fans of all the teams in the division?

/ sorry; confused
// love my division (NFC North), but hate the other teams in it Packers and feel general apathy towards the Vikings and Detroit. Detroit is climbing though!

Pratty:
Admittedly, I missed the Thursday game, so that might be coloring my perception some.

I was actually at that Thursday night game. He looked much more comfortable in the offense and with his receivers. It's been a while since the Raiders have had a proper QB; while this could have just been a flashback to brilliance, he sure looked legit.