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(The Citizen)   School Head on rape claim: "Guys do this kind of thing, you have to get used to it"   (thelocal.se) divider line 139
    More: Dumbass, rape claim, rights of women, periodicals  
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17156 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2011 at 2:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



139 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2011-11-14 11:47:58 AM
Just try to enjoy it...
 
2011-11-14 12:09:24 PM
Well, look....splooging on titties is fun. I mean, we don't have to pretend we're not into it. It's not like ya'll don't like it. Most of the interwebs says you are.

/Should I have read the article?
 
2011-11-14 12:43:25 PM
'boys will be boys'

I am so tired of that tautology.
 
2011-11-14 12:48:56 PM
And this didn't happen at Penn State? Damn.
 
2011-11-14 01:33:32 PM
so when can the principal be expecting his rape?
 
2011-11-14 01:36:03 PM

IgG4: Just try to enjoy it...


"Let's not turn this rape into a murder."
 
2011-11-14 01:59:56 PM
Subby, Joe Paterno is not the head of Penn State.
 
2011-11-14 02:40:09 PM
According to the report, when the girl's mother called the principal to discuss her comments, the principal told her that her daughter "should concentrate on her studies" and "to stop focusing on these trivialities".


Sounds like this principal is aching for the 69 o'clock train to Pound Town. Get in line Farkers, we're just going what guys do.
 
2011-11-14 02:40:38 PM
Vice President Biden, Joe Sandusky, #Occupy campers all seen nodding in approval.
 
2011-11-14 02:40:40 PM
no ties to teh Catholic? holy farking crap.
 
2011-11-14 02:41:17 PM
I was just wondering what Clayton was up to these days...
 
2011-11-14 02:41:28 PM
She can't protect herself? maybe she's too weak.
 
2011-11-14 02:41:47 PM
Wow. Sure he wasn't an SEC coach?
 
2011-11-14 02:42:02 PM
4 out of 5 people enjoy gang rape.
 
2011-11-14 02:43:14 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
is not pleased with this principal's shenanigans.
 
2011-11-14 02:43:31 PM
Considering the most recent studies show over 80% of rape claims are false, I don't see what the big deal is.
 
2011-11-14 02:43:33 PM

Sybarite: 'boys will be boys'

I am so tired of that tautology.


Well, to be fair, it's only in statistically rare situations that boys won't be boys.

/also, gravity won't be gravity... there's a non zero chance, after all
 
2011-11-14 02:43:57 PM
stop crying... or I'll never be able to finish.
 
2011-11-14 02:44:19 PM

lordaction: Considering the most recent studies show over 80% of rape claims are false, I don't see what the big deal is.


Citation?
 
2011-11-14 02:44:21 PM
"Something doesn't add up here. There is no way in hell any principal AND witnessing teacher would play down rape allegations in this manner. I am guessing the infraction described to the principal was not a rape but something else. Must be more to the story. Otherwise, our society is in real trouble."
 
2011-11-14 02:44:29 PM
Something does add up about this story. I'm not going to bother faking surprise if the whole thing is BS.
 
2011-11-14 02:44:55 PM
Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.
 
2011-11-14 02:45:33 PM
You want a job, don't you?
 
2011-11-14 02:45:46 PM

LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.


FTA: "A high school in Täby in northern Stockholm..."
 
2011-11-14 02:45:59 PM
Inspectorate? Is that like an expectorate?
 
2011-11-14 02:46:09 PM
Jeff?
 
2011-11-14 02:47:23 PM
Head on rape, apply directly to anus.
 
2011-11-14 02:48:02 PM
image1.findagrave.com
Approves this message
 
2011-11-14 02:48:06 PM
Nice of the guy to depict men as sex-craving animals and women as crybabies when traumatic things happen to them. He should be hated by all sides.
 
2011-11-14 02:48:13 PM

LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.


Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans can read location names in articles, but I just keep reading about them posting like this.
 
2011-11-14 02:49:35 PM

LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.


This happened in Stockholm. Step one, click article link. Step two, begin reading.
 
2011-11-14 02:49:42 PM

LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.


Unless the US colonized Sweden while I wasn't paying attention, this involved zero Americans.

/yeah, I bit. *shakes head dejectedly*
 
2011-11-14 02:50:55 PM

LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.


It says "Sweden's News in English", right on the article source tag on the left.
 
2011-11-14 02:51:09 PM
Sweden.....

Did he not use a condom?

See what happens when you call things rape that aren't rape? We have no idea how serious they are, because you've gone and destroyed the meaning of the word we're ready to turn vigilante over.
 
2011-11-14 02:52:16 PM
Most teenagers are overjoyed to get laid. Some people complain about everything.
 
2011-11-14 02:52:44 PM
Head on rape is the worst kind.
 
2011-11-14 02:53:14 PM

acidsurfer: LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.

FTA: "A high school in Täby in northern Stockholm..."


thatsthejoke.jpg
 
2011-11-14 02:55:19 PM

A Terrible Human: lordaction: Considering the most recent studies show over 80% of rape claims are false, I don't see what the big deal is.

Citation?


Sorry, meant to say 50%. Using the right hand numbers keys.

"According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (“Archives of Sexual Behavior,†Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.
...
Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false.
...
According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists "some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions." (that's 40% for those not counting) ... That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of “Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape,†says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen.
 
2011-11-14 02:55:35 PM

acidsurfer: "Something doesn't add up here. There is no way in hell any principal AND witnessing teacher would play down rape allegations in this manner. I am guessing the infraction described to the principal was not a rape but something else. Must be more to the story. Otherwise, our society is in real trouble."


Kind of what I am thinking. I wish I could find a better article about this story.
 
2011-11-14 02:57:08 PM
It's Stockholm, the victim is suppose to have empathy and defend her attacker.
 
2011-11-14 02:57:08 PM
A Møøse once ræped my sister....
 
2011-11-14 02:58:45 PM
But was it rape rape?
 
2011-11-14 03:00:50 PM

acidsurfer: "Something doesn't add up here. There is no way in hell any principal AND witnessing teacher would play down rape allegations in this manner. I am guessing the infraction described to the principal was not a rape but something else. Must be more to the story. Otherwise, our society is in real trouble."


Agreed. This is Sweden and they are definitely not a macho shiathead society.
 
2011-11-14 03:01:40 PM
Ladies, this is gonna happen so just deal with it.
 
2011-11-14 03:02:03 PM
Stockholm syndrome?
 
2011-11-14 03:02:24 PM
Sorry. Meant to include the image:

www.politifake.org
 
2011-11-14 03:02:28 PM

lordaction: A Terrible Human: lordaction: Considering the most recent studies show over 80% of rape claims are false, I don't see what the big deal is.

Citation?

Sorry, meant to say 50%. Using the right hand numbers keys.

"According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (“Archives of Sexual Behavior,†Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.
...
Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false.
...
According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists "some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions." (that's 40% for those not counting) ... That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of “Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape,†says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen.


Referencing "1994," "1985," "1996" and you're trying to convince me this applied to today? I don't think so, Tim. Try something using more up to date figures.
 
2011-11-14 03:03:03 PM
images.wikia.com
"Boys will be boys."
 
2011-11-14 03:04:07 PM

BarbadoSlim: Ladies, this is gonna happen so just deal with it.


it's like when the dog latches onto your leg. best just ride it out and let him finish.
 
2011-11-14 03:05:13 PM

Knara: Sybarite: 'boys will be boys'

I am so tired of that tautology.

Well, to be fair, it's only in statistically rare situations that boys won't be boys.

/also, gravity won't be gravity... there's a non zero chance, after all


Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up, shook up world
Except for Lola, L-L-Lola
 
2011-11-14 03:05:19 PM
Ya know... we have a solution to the problem of animals that can't control their sexual urges. It's called neutering. Quick, simple, and efficient. We do it all the time to dogs, cats, cattle, pigs, and horses. No reason at all that it can't also be done to humans that prove incapable of playing nicely with others.
 
2011-11-14 03:06:28 PM
images.cheezburger.com

She deserved it. Riding her little pink bicycle in that form-fitting skirt.
 
2011-11-14 03:07:10 PM
Now hold on there, Andrea Dworkin. I'm a guy and even a heterosexual one at that AND I have the dreaed white skin of the Devil, and I've never personally raped anyone. Not even unsuccessfully.
 
2011-11-14 03:08:16 PM

RobSeace: Knara: Sybarite: 'boys will be boys'

I am so tired of that tautology.

Well, to be fair, it's only in statistically rare situations that boys won't be boys.

/also, gravity won't be gravity... there's a non zero chance, after all

Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up, shook up world
Except for Lola, L-L-Lola


Holly came from Miami, Fla
Hitchhiked her way across the USA.
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her leg and then he was she - she said:

Hey Babe, take a walk on the wild side,
Said hey honey, take a walk on the wild side.
 
2011-11-14 03:09:50 PM

LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.


Well hope does spring eternal, you just have to remember that 30% of Americans still support torture, coincidentally 30% of Americans are the Republican base.
 
2011-11-14 03:10:10 PM
Sweden; heaven for boys, hell for girls?
/mai non, mai non...
 
2011-11-14 03:11:57 PM
Girls sometimes have to pluck both of a guy's eyeballs out of his skull like two hard boiled eggs in hand. You have to get used to it.
 
2011-11-14 03:12:40 PM
Oh and for funny false rape-allegation stories a party associate takes the cake. She invites us girls out and then tells us she was raped by the guy she had went home with the previous week. We were all shocked and asked he what happened. She said first he came over and immediately asked for a bj which she did. That wasn't the rape part though. Then it moved onto penetration, but that wasn't the rape part. Then the backdoor, but THAT wasn't the rape part. I asked her then what was the problem and she said he had an STD, but didn't tell her ahead of time so THAT was rape. I asked if she asked him ahead of time about STDs or demanded he wear a rubber. She said no, but that doesn't mean anything since she was violated.

Turns out he was tested the week after their hookup so he didn't even know about it. She still took it to court and not only was the case thrown out, but now everyone knows she has crabs. I'm sure she didn't think it was funny, but I think it is hilarious. I'm SO glad we aren't really friends or I might feel sorry for her.

/might
//Nothing happened to the guy and he didn't get fired for the rape allegations
///He got fired for bringing drugs to work
////Winning?
 
2011-11-14 03:13:55 PM

lordaction: Trollin' as hard as I can.


Recanting complaints is common and is usually done due to harassment.
The DNA study is on live cases, not convictions, that have been referred to the FBI where DNA needs to be evaluated. This includes rape cases where the victim doesn't know who the attacker is, so the fact that there's a 1/5 chance that the prime suspect (such as ex-boyfriend) is not guilty then that's good on the justice system but doesn't mean that the victim was lying. The 20% "inconclusive" means absolutely nothing.
Fairstein's comment seems to be taken out of context, and I'm having trouble finding it IN context considering that every result I come up with is linking me to sites like Freep and Anti-Misandry.

Regardless of how likely it is that rape claims are false, that wasn't what the principal in this article claimed. He dismissed the idea of trauma as "whining" and says that rapes within school happen all the time, contrary to the wholly stupid point you were trying to make.
 
2011-11-14 03:14:52 PM
Suspicious lack of details about her allegations makes me suspicious of the veracity of her allegations.
"He told me he'd call me the next day, but didn't! It was rape!"
 
2011-11-14 03:16:27 PM

Gwyrddu: It's Stockholm, the victim is suppose to have empathy and defend her attacker.


This made me happy.
 
2011-11-14 03:18:56 PM
Sooo, he never called her back?
 
2011-11-14 03:19:39 PM

serial_crusher: Suspicious lack of details about her allegations makes me suspicious of the veracity of her allegations.
"He told me he'd call me the next day, but didn't! It was rape!"


Because if there's one thing the internet needs, it's more info about what exactly happened to the 14 year old girl, which position, what color panties she was wearing, etc.
 
2011-11-14 03:19:44 PM
Like sex with Kobe? Scream all you want, it's going to happen, then his wife will get a new diamond ring.
 
2011-11-14 03:21:13 PM

lordaction: A Terrible Human: lordaction: Considering the most recent studies show over 80% of rape claims are false, I don't see what the big deal is.

Citation?

Sorry, meant to say 50%. Using the right hand numbers keys.

"According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (“Archives of Sexual Behavior,†Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.
...
Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false.
...
According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists "some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions." (that's 40% for those not counting) ... That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of “Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape,†says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen.


There is really no way of knowing how many of those recanted rape claims were recanted as a result of pressure/threats to the alleged victim. Not to say that some alleged victims don't lie, because they do, but I find these numbers to be suspect. Besides, all rape statistics are skewed anyway, by the simple fact that so many go unreported at all.
 
2011-11-14 03:23:44 PM
Someone get to work on the signs, I'll go to home depot and get the pitchforks.
 
2011-11-14 03:27:08 PM
Makes you wonder why they are still trying to get Assange if that is such a non issue over there
 
2011-11-14 03:27:47 PM

Cpl.D: Someone get to work on the signs, I'll go to home depot and get the pitchforks.


Is it bad form to use the torch from this AM or does it have to be new every use.
Seems like a waste to me, perfectly good torch, got there late so it's only got about thirty minutes on it. . .
 
2011-11-14 03:31:37 PM
The student reported the school to the Schools Inspectorate (Skolinspektionen), which has now forwarded the complaint to the Equality Ombudsmannen (Diskrimineringsombudsmannen - DO).

That can't really be a word, can it?
 
2011-11-14 03:35:40 PM
Nobody noticed there's not one bit of specific information in here? Not even the principal's name, let alone an attempt to ask him if he really is a dick.

This "article" sounds like some kid came home from school with gossip and one of his parents wrote up the account.
 
2011-11-14 03:36:05 PM

Gordon Bennett: Now hold on there, Andrea Dworkin. I'm a guy and even a heterosexual one at that AND I have the dreaed white skin of the Devil, and I've never personally raped anyone. Not even unsuccessfully.


There's no such thing as an unsuccessful rape, you're either raped or not raped. Like being "a little pregnant"
 
2011-11-14 03:36:40 PM

wiredmaverick: The student reported the school to the Schools Inspectorate (Skolinspektionen), which has now forwarded the complaint to the Equality Ombudsmannen (Diskrimineringsombudsmannen - DO).

That can't really be a word, can it?


You should see Welsh. I've never seen so many consonants in one place. Was Wales hiding behind the door the day they handed out vowels or something?
 
2011-11-14 03:41:45 PM

wiredmaverick: That can't really be a word, can it?


It's Swedish. I believe their version of "the" is something like "Omlaufkannislausimiposhscarybabygingersporty".
 
2011-11-14 03:43:06 PM
Anyone else notice the article about the boy whose nipples were burned by an electric flyswatter?

www.electronicflyswatter.net

Those bullies must have had one long extension cord.
 
2011-11-14 03:43:13 PM
"Guys do this kind of thing, you have to get used to it"

Really? Where was I when I was doing all that raping?
 
2011-11-14 03:45:02 PM
The greatest thing about these threads is how coolerl heads always prevail in them.
 
2011-11-14 03:47:49 PM
www.theclevelandfan.com
 
2011-11-14 03:50:35 PM
I like that no one seems to have noticed that the only reference in the article to the principal's gender seems to imply that it's a woman.

According to the report, when the girl's mother called the principal to discuss her comments, the principal told her that her daughter "should concentrate on her studies" and "to stop focusing on these trivialities".

Love all the assumptions that it was obviously a guy, though; because honestly, only guys do this kind of thing, right? Boys will be boys, and all.
 
2011-11-14 03:52:50 PM

Gwyrddu: It's Stockholm, the victim is suppose to have empathy and defend her attacker.


/thread
 
2011-11-14 03:53:24 PM
Anytime statistics suggest that many rapes are false accusations, people without any evidence one way or another (besides their gut feeling on it) say the stats are all fudged up.

Anytime anyone with a guy feeling on it suggests that many rapes are false accusations, people say they need real statistics on it.

How do you win that battle? This girl probably wasn't raped, though she is highly likely a coont.
 
2011-11-14 03:54:01 PM
*gut feeling
 
2011-11-14 03:56:40 PM

lordaction: A Terrible Human: lordaction: Considering the most recent studies show over 80% of rape claims are false, I don't see what the big deal is.

Citation?

Sorry, meant to say 50%. Using the right hand numbers keys.

"According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (“Archives of Sexual Behavior,†Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.
...
Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false.
...
According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists "some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions." (that's 40% for those not counting) ... That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of “Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape,†says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen.


and I wonder how many go unreported. I have several girl friends who have been raped and never reported it. Its terrible that people would falsely accuse rape. Yet its also terrible that people would feel so stigmatised that they would not report it out of fear of being accused as being a liar or a manipulator.
 
2011-11-14 03:57:12 PM
I suspect that this is just a case of bad translation, and the proper phrase should be something more like "sexual harassment."

At least I hope so.
 
2011-11-14 03:57:22 PM

AISI: Ya know... we have a solution to the problem of animals that can't control their sexual urges. It's called neutering. Quick, simple, and efficient. We do it all the time to dogs, cats, cattle, pigs, and horses. No reason at all that it can't also be done to humans that prove incapable of playing nicely with others.


The problem with that is that rape is not primarily a sexual urge, it's a power trip. Convicted rapists who have undergone chemical castrations have still raped again. There are a fair number of rapists who are impotent.

It won't stop anyone from pulling out a baseball bat or other object....
 
2011-11-14 03:57:45 PM

wiredmaverick: The student reported the school to the Schools Inspectorate (Skolinspektionen), which has now forwarded the complaint to the Equality Ombudsmannen (Diskrimineringsombudsmannen - DO).

That can't really be a word, can it?


It's almost a word in English, discrimination and ombudsman, so why not? Also why isn't it just translated as is? Am I paying taxes because someones retarded nephew, working a cushy government job making up international titles, can't get a real job?

/Actually it's just the Local making a mistake.
//Täby has sold all their schools. Lowest bidder never fails.
 
2011-11-14 04:00:16 PM
"HER" comments. Apparently the school head is a woman. And no specifics at all in the article. I can't help but wonder if it wasn't some bully popping her bra or something and not actual rape.

When I was in middle school there was a girl I thought was cute. In my punk mind I decided the appropriate way to handle this was to unhook her bra through her shirt after school. After about the third time she turned around looked me straight in the eyes and kneed me right in the nads. Lesson learned. I never did it again.
 
2011-11-14 04:08:16 PM

wiredmaverick: The student reported the school to the Schools Inspectorate (Skolinspektionen), which has now forwarded the complaint to the Equality Ombudsmannen (Diskrimineringsombudsmannen - DO).

That can't really be a word, can it?


Did you get tired halfway through like I did and read it as Diskriminerinkydinkydink?

/diskriminerinkidoo
//obscure
 
2011-11-14 04:39:16 PM
It's funny what kind of news TheLocal.se reports sometimes. It is usually controversial or stupid events, premade for sites like FARK.com, no further selection needed. Controversial events like this would be big news here in Sweden and be picked up by all newsmedia. Only problem is that I have spent the last half hour trying to find another news article that mentions this event, and I can't find it. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if no other reports on it, maybe it didn't happen that way...
 
2011-11-14 04:44:12 PM
lordaction 2011-11-14 02:55:19 PM
A Terrible Human: lordaction: Considering the most recent studies show over 80% of rape claims are false, I don't see what the big deal is.

Citation?

Sorry, meant to say 50%. Using the right hand numbers keys.

"According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (“Archives of Sexual Behavior,†Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.

Link (new window)

Criticism of Dr. Kanin's report include Dr. David Lisak, an associate professor of psychology, and director of the Men's Sexual Trauma Research Project at the University of Massachusetts, Boston. In the September/October 2007 issue of the Sexual Assault Report he states "Kanin's 1994 article on false allegations is a provocative opinion piece, but it is not a scientific study of the issue of false reporting of rape. It certainly should never be used to assert a scientific foundation for the frequency of false allegations." He further states "[Dr. Kanin] simply reiterates the opinions of the police officers who concluded that the cases in question were 'false allegations.'" Lisak cites page 13 of Investigating Sexual Assaults from the International Association of Chiefs of Police which says polygraph tests for sexual assault victims are contradicted in the investigation process and that their use is "based on the misperception that a significant percentage of sexual assault reports are false...It is noteworthy that the police department from which Kanin derived his data threatened to use the polygraph in every case...The fact that it was the standard procedure of this department provides a window on the biases of the officers who conducted the rape investigations, biases that were then echoed in Kanin's unchallenged reporting of their findings." Lisak later performed his own study, published in 2010 in Violence Against Women, which found a false allegation rate of 5.9%.

According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive.


Inconclusive does not mean that a rape didn't happen. Not to mention the fact that the woman may not have been able to identify her attacker and thus someone else rather the primary suspect committed the rape.

But go on and tell yourself that us crazy wimmins just make shiat up the hell of it.
 
2011-11-14 04:49:29 PM

hobblekitty: There is really no way of knowing how many of those recanted rape claims were recanted as a result of pressure/threats to the alleged victim. Not to say that some alleged victims don't lie, because they do, but I find these numbers to be suspect. Besides, all rape statistics are skewed anyway, by the simple fact that so many go unreported at all.


There's really no reason to expect that many if any of those recanted rape claims were due to pressure or threats.

And given that it opens the accuser up to charges of filing a false claim and/or slander, it's not really a smart way to go.

And I'm always irked by the "many rapes go unreported" metric. How the hell do we know? If they're unreported, it means that there is no record. And if we haven't actually established in a court of law that what happened WAS rape, then I don't think adding more false accusations or past regrets to the list counts as "many rapes going unreported".


I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd need more than the anonymous supposed victim's word that they were raped because I consider it an unreported crime. Artificially inflating crime statistics like this just serves to try and demonize men.
 
2011-11-14 04:51:40 PM

drb9: But was it rape rape?


It was "surprise sex"...
 
2011-11-14 04:55:53 PM

apoptotic: Unless the US colonized Sweden while I wasn't paying attention, this involved zero Americans.


Don't give them any ideas.
 
2011-11-14 04:57:13 PM

sidcart42: See what happens when you call things rape that aren't rape? We have no idea how serious they are, because you've gone and destroyed the meaning of the word we're ready to turn vigilante over.


Ok, I'll bite ... what things that are not rape do people call rape?
 
2011-11-14 05:07:23 PM

dlewis6: Anytime statistics suggest that many rapes are false accusations, people without any evidence one way or another (besides their gut feeling on it) say the stats are all fudged up.

Anytime anyone with a guy feeling on it suggests that many rapes are false accusations, people say they need real statistics on it.

How do you win that battle? This girl probably wasn't raped, though she is highly likely a coont.


I'm rather hoping that you don't "win" this particular "battle." But if you'd like a change of pace, you could try taking up Intelligent Design or Climate Change denial. I hear that they're treated shamefully unfairly, too. Maybe you guys can share a beer and commiserate together.
 
2011-11-14 05:12:05 PM

ciberido: Ok, I'll bite ... what things that are not rape do people call rape?


"What the hell did I drink last night and who the hell is this guy?"
"I feel guilty about having done that for whatever reason but my guilt couldn't possibly be due to my own choices so it must have been coercion."
"I hate this guy and want to ruin his life."
"I don't want to have sex but I don't want to tell him no or resist so I'll just be uncomfortable and unhappy and call it date rape tomorrow".

Etc. Those kinds of things pop up in these kinds of cases fairly often, when they either retract the accusation or it gets thrown out.
 
2011-11-14 05:12:35 PM
Someone Should kick him in the nuts and tell him sometimes boys do that
 
2011-11-14 05:32:41 PM

tothekor: lordaction: A Terrible Human: lordaction: Considering the most recent studies show over 80% of rape claims are false, I don't see what the big deal is.

Citation?

Sorry, meant to say 50%. Using the right hand numbers keys.

"According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (“Archives of Sexual Behavior,†Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.
...
Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false.
...
According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists "some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions." (that's 40% for those not counting) ... That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of “Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape,†says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen.

Referencing "1994," "1985," "1996" and you're trying to convince me this applied to today? I don't think so, Tim. Try something using more up to date figures.


you're silly! {~;
 
2011-11-14 05:33:16 PM
Approves

www.mediaite.com
 
2011-11-14 05:57:31 PM
This sounds like a situation where the girl went along and then afterwards when the guy didn't want to have anything to do with her she claimed rape and the attempted rape was when she let him get to second base the date before. The boys will be boys statement makes sense in this context as her telling the girl that he had is way with you and dumped you. The guy would be an arse, but not a rapist.
 
2011-11-14 06:15:40 PM
The Kanin study was crap. He studied one medium-sized town over the course of a small period of time.

All he showed was that there was something seriously wrong in that single town. I suspect that the real problem was that they had a cop who was unusually good at bullying women into dropping the charges.
 
2011-11-14 06:17:11 PM

Jingo Ate Your Baby: wiredmaverick: The student reported the school to the Schools Inspectorate (Skolinspektionen), which has now forwarded the complaint to the Equality Ombudsmannen (Diskrimineringsombudsmannen - DO).

That can't really be a word, can it?

Did you get tired halfway through like I did and read it as Diskriminerinkydinkydink?

/diskriminerinkidoo
//obscure


I LOL'd. Which is a bad thing here at work.

Fortunately I darn near choked.
 
2011-11-14 06:22:37 PM

capilot: The Kanin study was crap. He studied one medium-sized town over the course of a small period of time.

All he showed was that there was something seriously wrong in that single town. I suspect that the real problem was that they had a cop who was unusually good at bullying women into dropping the charges.


Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that women often lie or exaggerate things for various reasons. It has to be that a man was a bully. Because women are innocent dainty creatures, and men are all brutish neandertals.

Way to resort to misandry when you disagree with the evidence presented, though.
 
2011-11-14 06:54:13 PM

Thorak: capilot: The Kanin study was crap. He studied one medium-sized town over the course of a small period of time.

All he showed was that there was something seriously wrong in that single town. I suspect that the real problem was that they had a cop who was unusually good at bullying women into dropping the charges.

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that women often lie or exaggerate things for various reasons. It has to be that a man was a bully. Because women are innocent dainty creatures, and men are all brutish neandertals.

Way to resort to misandry when you disagree with the evidence presented, though.


News flash: It's not one or the other.

Sometimes women make up rape allegations due to "regret", etc.

Sometimes men rape women, and the women get bullied into dropping charges.

These things do not preclude each other. There's jerks of both sexes. And it's a jerk problem, not a male/female problem.
 
2011-11-14 07:18:24 PM
I've always wondered something. This is a question for guys who don't think rape is a big deal or think that women overreact to it. Let's say a huge disgusting 500 pound woman manages to climb on top of you and pin you down (maybe she ties you up). Then she proceeds to take off your clothes and rub her naughty bits all over your body and repeatedly tries to insert you (or does if you manage to get/stay erect). You don't want this to happen and it's a scary situation because you can't move, you're completely out of control. Big Bertha is choking and beating you during all this until she is done.

Afterwards, do you feel violated? Do you feel embarrassed and/or disgusted with yourself? Do you just simply get over it and move on? Would this even phase you?
 
2011-11-14 07:19:16 PM

RandomSwede: It's funny what kind of news TheLocal.se reports sometimes. It is usually controversial or stupid events, premade for sites like FARK.com, no further selection needed. Controversial events like this would be big news here in Sweden and be picked up by all newsmedia. Only problem is that I have spent the last half hour trying to find another news article that mentions this event, and I can't find it. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if no other reports on it, maybe it didn't happen that way...


Thanks for the feedback. I keep considering looking at Sweden as a "Plan B" country to this zoo of a country. We're not so much a melting-pot as we are a fruitcake. However, I worry sometimes at the insane news I read on TheLocal.

Are there better English news sites for Sweden that are more ... let's go with "reliable"?
 
2011-11-14 07:25:23 PM

kyoryu: News flash: It's not one or the other.

Sometimes women make up rape allegations due to "regret", etc.

Sometimes men rape women, and the women get bullied into dropping charges.

These things do not preclude each other. There's jerks of both sexes. And it's a jerk problem, not a male/female problem.


I'm not saying rape doesn't happen, I'm just saying that responding to statistics about false accusations with "oh, but there's lots of women who don't report it even though there's zero reputable evidence to support that claim since if we had numbers on unreported rapes they would, by definition, be reported" or that it must be because a male police officer is bullying them into recanting, that's just misandry.

It's the ugly mirror to the "she was asking for it" bullshiat.

Calling people out for misandry does not mean I'm a misogynist.
 
2011-11-14 07:27:36 PM
You know when you report a rape, the first thing that happens is that you get "swabbed." --you go to the hospital, put your feet in the stirrups, and have your insides examined and evidence taken. Right after you were raped. Then you are interrogated for hours by police, trauma specialists, lawyers, and anybody else who might have an interest in deciding whether or not you have a case in prosecuting the rapist.

At some point, I imagine someone will tell the raped person the odds of actually getting a conviction, the problem of a crime with no witnesses basically being a "he said/she said" case, and what the raped person will go through if they decide to pursue the case and it makes it all the way to court, of which there's no guarantee. You're talking a couple of years out of a person's life, not to mention what it will do to their personal relationships, their job, the stress of being grilled in front of a bunch of strangers about the most intimate and disgusting details of something that happened to them, to say nothing of facing the rapist in court day after day. All for the slim chance of getting a conviction--depending on which country you're in, you have about a 20% chance of the rapist being found guilty.

People decide not to pursue a rape case? Well, there's only one explanation for it--the little whores were lying.

/Why the fark do I even have to write that out?
 
2011-11-14 07:28:00 PM
I guess he didn't like being the school head....
 
2011-11-14 07:32:08 PM

ciberido: sidcart42: See what happens when you call things rape that aren't rape? We have no idea how serious they are, because you've gone and destroyed the meaning of the word we're ready to turn vigilante over.

Ok, I'll bite ... what things that are not rape do people call rape?


A: Retroactively non-consensual sex.
 
2011-11-14 07:34:30 PM

PillsHere: I've always wondered something. This is a question for guys who don't think rape is a big deal or think that women overreact to it. Let's say a huge disgusting 500 pound woman manages to climb on top of you and pin you down (maybe she ties you up). Then she proceeds to take off your clothes and rub her naughty bits all over your body and repeatedly tries to insert you (or does if you manage to get/stay erect). You don't want this to happen and it's a scary situation because you can't move, you're completely out of control. Big Bertha is choking and beating you during all this until she is done.

Afterwards, do you feel violated? Do you feel embarrassed and/or disgusted with yourself? Do you just simply get over it and move on? Would this even phase you?


Identify one person here who think the situation you described is not a big deal.
 
2011-11-14 07:36:14 PM
*thinks
 
2011-11-14 07:37:58 PM
Thorak

And I'm always irked by the "many rapes go unreported" metric. How the hell do we know? If they're unreported, it means that there is no record. And if we haven't actually established in a court of law that what happened WAS rape, then I don't think adding more false accusations or past regrets to the list counts as "many rapes going unreported".


The government does anonymous crime surveys, where they ask you if you were the victim of a rape (along with various other crimes) and if you reported it to the police or not. And I have no idea how it would be considered a "false accusation" if nobody made the accusation to the cops in the first place.

All he showed was that there was something seriously wrong in that single town. I suspect that the real problem was that they had a cop who was unusually good at bullying women into dropping the charges.

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that women often lie or exaggerate things for various reasons. It has to be that a man was a bully. Because women are innocent dainty creatures, and men are all brutish neandertals.

Way to resort to misandry when you disagree with the evidence presented, though.



Why is it easier to believe that dozens many women were lying about rape than to believe that a bad cop in the force would bully and pressure them into recanting?

Why is it is misandry to suggest that one bad cop would bully people, yet it isn't misogyny to suggest that half of all the alleged rape victims in that town would lie?

Are you an MRA?
 
2011-11-14 07:39:57 PM

IgG4: Just try to enjoy it...


Think of England.
 
2011-11-14 07:40:58 PM
oi44.tinypic.com

The picture is from Finland but it still applies. Europe has a huge problem with immigrants that believe unescorted women deserve to be raped. The perpetrators are often given slaps on the wrist for whatever reason.

"forwarded the complaint to the Equality Ombudsmannen" is telling.

48% of convicted rapists in Sweden in 2009 were born abroad
9.2% of the population were born outside the EU
 
2011-11-14 08:54:41 PM

LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.


I can't figure out if this is an excellent troll, a display of the shiattiest understanding of statistics in history, a complete ignorance of geography, or complete and utter illiteracy. Either way, it deserves to be the inaugural entry on the Fark Wall of Holy shiat You're Stupid.
 
2011-11-14 09:20:07 PM
I wonder something.

When a woman (or man, but I'll go with "woman" here) reports that she was raped, why are there so many people whose Weeners is contempt and/or wharrgarbl about how she is probably lying?

Showing human compassion toward someone who reports a rape does NOT mean that you automatically have to name, vilify, and convict an accused perpetrator. It does NOT mean that you agree 100% that the case will hold up in court (which many, as cryingoutloud mentioned, do not). Funny how most cases of theft, vandalism, assault, murder, etc. don't merit this vicious skepticism. I hope none of the ITGs immediately brushing this student off as "probably lying" would respond like that to a friend or relative.
 
2011-11-14 09:42:05 PM

Inchoate: I wonder something.

When a woman (or man, but I'll go with "woman" here) reports that she was raped, why are there so many people whose Weeners is contempt and/or wharrgarbl about how she is probably lying?

Showing human compassion toward someone who reports a rape does NOT mean that you automatically have to name, vilify, and convict an accused perpetrator. It does NOT mean that you agree 100% that the case will hold up in court (which many, as cryingoutloud mentioned, do not). Funny how most cases of theft, vandalism, assault, murder, etc. don't merit this vicious skepticism. I hope none of the ITGs immediately brushing this student off as "probably lying" would respond like that to a friend or relative.


It's not the rape claim that tells me she's lying, it's the principals reaction combined with the one-sidedness of the article.

Occams razor leaves a pretty easy decision between "crazy school principal doesn't care about his students raping each other" and "teenage girl lied about sex".
 
2011-11-14 11:42:48 PM

Thorak: And I'm always irked by the "many rapes go unreported" metric. How the hell do we know? If they're unreported, it means that there is no record. And if we haven't actually established in a court of law that what happened WAS rape, then I don't think adding more false accusations or past regrets to the list counts as "many rapes going unreported".


I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd need more than the anonymous supposed victim's word that they were raped because I consider it an unreported crime. Artificially inflating crime statistics like this just serves to try and demonize men.


Well, gee, you could look it up

Or you could just keep putting your fingers in your ears and sing "La-la-la"!

Maybe Google is just too hard.
 
2011-11-14 11:49:12 PM

Thorak: Calling people out for misandry does not mean I'm a misogynist.


No but the fact there you are denying the existence of something that has been studied and for which there is overwhelming evidence DOES.

http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/sa.shtml

Seriously, you clearly have some strong emotional need to deny the existence of something which has been very well documented. Ask yourself why you feel so strongly about this one particular issue. Why does rape threaten you so?
 
2011-11-14 11:58:33 PM

serial_crusher: Occams razor leaves a pretty easy decision between "crazy school principal doesn't care about his students raping each other" and "teenage girl lied about sex".


It does?

You must not have much experience with academic administrators. :/
 
2011-11-15 12:15:28 AM
According to the report, when the girl's mother called the principal to discuss her comments
So the principal is a woman? Maybe she is just waiting her turn.
 
2011-11-15 01:00:51 AM

Banned on the Run: ciberido: sidcart42: See what happens when you call things rape that aren't rape? We have no idea how serious they are, because you've gone and destroyed the meaning of the word we're ready to turn vigilante over.

Ok, I'll bite ... what things that are not rape do people call rape?

A: Retroactively non-consensual sex.


Actually, several universities in the US have defined even mutually consensual sexual encounters as rape if the female has had ANY alcohol whatsoever, under the assumption her judgment was impaired. Zero Tolerance as well; no matter the level of alcohol, no matter even if the female disagrees that anything inappropriate went on. Administration finds out about sex after drinking any quantity of alcohol, male is expelled.

Other places have determined mutually consensual sex is prosecutable as rape if it was entered into under false pretenses (one party has misled or lied to the other party). Basically, if you say you are single and you aren't, or say you are rich when you aren't, in order to get laid, you are a rapist.

Neither of those seem like particularly healthy additions to the term "rape", and serve only to trivialize the term.
 
2011-11-15 02:02:50 AM

MeanJean: The government does anonymous crime surveys, where they ask you if you were the victim of a rape (along with various other crimes) and if you reported it to the police or not. And I have no idea how it would be considered a "false accusation" if nobody made the accusation to the cops in the first place.


The thing is, we normally have things called "courts" that establish whether someone's actually committed a crime or not.

Someone feeling victimized does not necessarily mean a crime was committed.

I'm not denying that some go unreported, but establishing how many actual rapes go unreported should require a hell of a lot more investigation than just asking someone if they think they were a victim.

Especially since we're discussing the false-claim percentage, too, here. It's a proven fact, via actual investigations and court proceedings, that plenty of women lie about being raped, or at least are completely mistaken about what happened. Cases where they got drunk, and she regrets having sex in the morning and can't remember consenting and assumes she was raped, for instance. I'm sure it was a horrible experience for her that morning, but that doesn't mean the guy she was with committed a crime, and she's exactly the kind of person who'd maybe not report it but would say "yes" to those anonymous surveys.

ciberido: Seriously, you clearly have some strong emotional need to deny the existence of something which has been very well documented. Ask yourself why you feel so strongly about this one particular issue. Why does rape threaten you so?


No, I have a strong ethical need for there to be some accountability and proof to claims such as those made.

If your hypothesis is "many rapes go unreported", and you run an anonymous survey and ask women "have you been forcibly raped, and not reported it?", and you don't take the time to establish the truth of that statement, then you're surveying how women feel, rather than what actually happened. I'm not even saying women are liars; they may simply be mistaken, or expressing how a situation made them feel rather than what the facts represented.

We know that many rapes that ARE reported are reported falsely. While a small percentage of those will be vindictive accusations, more are probably mistaken impressions or confusion. And I would suspect those kinds of experiences would be the more likely to go unreported. And then those same women would firmly say yes, they had been raped, on an anonymous survey, even if a court of law would have found differently had they pursued the case.


But thanks for trying to imply that I'm a rapist, apparently because I'm male and think we should tread carefully and establish whether a crime was actually committed before just assuming any anonymous claim to be legitimate. That's totally not a bigoted stance to take.
 
2011-11-15 02:24:21 AM

LordPomposity: Wow. Just unbelievable. I want to think most Americans are good people, but I just keep reading about them acting like this.


Americans?

Someone didn't read TFA.
 
2011-11-15 02:45:10 AM
Just lie back and think of Stockholm.
 
2011-11-15 02:56:24 AM
Jingo Ate Your Baby:

Did you get tired halfway through like I did and read it as Diskriminerinkydinkydink?

/diskriminerinkidoo
//obscure


i love you.
 
2011-11-15 07:24:38 AM

lennavan: Subby, Joe Paterno is not the head of Penn State.


All kidding aside, jopa certainly was, if not in name but in his own nasty head. The prick.
 
2011-11-15 07:41:20 AM
When one of the fathers or mothers of these victims shows up one day to knock this dumb ass fools teeth down throat.... Hey, protective outraged parents do that kind of thing, you have to get use to it.

Of course in the middle east the would most likely stone the victim of rape to death if they were a girl that is.... Some so called religious people would make the girl carry that unwanted pregnancy, if they had their way with other people bodies...kind of double rape


Rape is never something to just get use to
 
2011-11-15 12:05:15 PM

CliChe Guevara: Actually, several universities in the US have defined even mutually consensual sexual encounters as rape if the female has had ANY alcohol whatsoever, under the assumption her judgment was impaired. Zero Tolerance as well; no matter the level of alcohol, no matter even if the female disagrees that anything inappropriate went on. Administration finds out about sex after drinking any quantity of alcohol, male is expelled.
Other places have determined mutually consensual sex is prosecutable as rape if it was entered into under false pretenses (one party has misled or lied to the other party). Basically, if you say you are single and you aren't, or say you are rich when you aren't, in order to get laid, you are a rapist.
Neither of those seem like particularly healthy additions to the term "rape", and serve only to trivialize the term.


Yeah, I generally agree with that.
Some kinds of intoxication can turn you into an id-driven automaton without memory, without the real capacity to say yes OR no. If someone deceitfully gets you that way (i.e. secretly and intentionally doctoring your drinks), that is rape. If YOU get yourself that way, taking advantage of automaton-you is a serious dick move (esp. if the other person is sober) that deserves shaming and is morally on the same continuum as rape, but absent actual ... forcing is not, IMHO, something as clear-cut or legally prosecutable.

I forget who suggested it first (Dan Savage), but I like the idea of "enthusiastic consent" being a social/moral benchmark. If your new partner assents in a monotone or mumbles a drunken sort of go-ahead, and doesn't seem to be having any fun at all, you are doing it wrong and should figure out what they want.

As for sex on sleazy false pretenses (your second point)... yeah. Another dick move, but not something the law should get involved with unless some kind of quantifiable fraud or damage is involved. It dilutes the gravity of real rape to call that rape.
 
2011-11-15 01:00:12 PM
Thorak

Especially since we're discussing the false-claim percentage, too, here. It's a proven fact, via actual investigations and court proceedings, that plenty of women lie about being raped, or at least are completely mistaken about what happened.

That does happen, sure. But certainly nowhere near to the degree that you think it does, given the amount of evidence to the contrary.

Cases where they got drunk, and she regrets having sex in the morning and can't remember consenting and assumes she was raped, for instance. I'm sure it was a horrible experience for her that morning, but that doesn't mean the guy she was with committed a crime, and she's exactly the kind of person who'd maybe not report it but would say "yes" to those anonymous surveys.

I'd find that easier to believe if it wasn't for the fact I've known people who have been raped and were too terrified and traumatized to report it, and they sure as shiat weren't drunk.

But thanks for trying to imply that I'm a rapist apparently because I'm male and think we should tread carefully and establish whether a crime was actually committed before just assuming any anonymous claim to be legitimate.

Where the fark did I ever imply you were a rapist? I certainly implied (and now I say outright) that you're a willfully ignorant moron, but I never implied you were a rapist.

You - "Blah blah women are lying liars false-claims blah blah"

Me- "Evidence to the contrary."

You - "WAAH STOP BEING MISANDRIST AND CALLING ME A RAPIST WAAAH!"
 
2011-11-15 01:06:54 PM
Thorak

If your hypothesis is "many rapes go unreported", and you run an anonymous survey and ask women "have you been forcibly raped, and not reported it?", and you don't take the time to establish the truth of that statement, then you're surveying how women feel, rather than what actually happened. I'm not even saying women are liars; they may simply be mistaken, or expressing how a situation made them feel rather than what the facts represented.

You're not seriously invoking the old trope that women are too emotional and not rational enough to determine if they'd been raped or not? That they'd report it as a rape if they just felt regret? And that it would be common enough to totally warp the survey results?

Do you honestly think that the majority of rape claims, reported or unreported, are because of that?

What planet do you live on?
 
2011-11-15 01:27:29 PM

CliChe Guevara: Other places have determined mutually consensual sex is prosecutable as rape if it was entered into under false pretenses (one party has misled or lied to the other party). Basically, if you say you are single and you aren't, or say you are rich when you aren't, in order to get laid, you are a rapist.

Neither of those seem like particularly healthy additions to the term "rape", and serve only to trivialize the term.


Actually, I agree. There should be a different term for it other than "rape."
 
2011-11-15 01:39:07 PM

Thorak: But thanks for trying to imply that I'm a rapist, apparently because I'm male and think we should tread carefully and establish whether a crime was actually committed before just assuming any anonymous claim to be legitimate. That's totally not a bigoted stance to take.


I'm not trying to imply that you're a rapist. I'm not -implying- anything. I'm -stating- that you are in absolute denial of the facts. Studies have been done. The facts are clear. Links to these studies and statistics have been provided in this thread, by me and by others. You deny them.

People who deny the facts but claim that they "only want the truth" usually have an agenda. You have "truthers," "birthers," "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" and the like who have a political agenda. You have the folks who deny Anthropomorphic climate change who mostly have some sort of economic or pro-business agenda. You've got people who claim that "Intelligent Design" is a real science, and they have a religious agenda. For holocaust deniers, it's racism. You're not really in very good company here.

I'm not calling you a rapist, but I AM saying that you have an agenda with regard to rape. Something about rape threatens you, or you wouldn't try so hard to pretend that it isn't real. I don't care so much about you coming clean here on Fark. But I do think you might benefit from a little soul-searching.
 
2011-11-15 03:33:37 PM

Salem Witch: Diskriminerinky


I read it as Diskriminerinkyborkborkbork

media.onsugar.com
 
2011-11-15 04:34:58 PM

Inchoate: Yeah, I generally agree with that.


Wait, you are saying that you 'generally agree' that going home with anyone you meet at a bar or at a party where alcohol is served, by definition makes you a rapist? Am I getting that right? You are OK with that?

No one is talking about roofies or passed out people here, they have defined it as ANY level of alcohol. You both have a beer, you both go have sex, you are both happy with it - but you are a rapist whether you think so or not, and the girl is a victim whether she thinks so or not. That makes no sense whatsoever.
 
2011-11-15 04:51:39 PM

Rihlsul: RandomSwede: It's funny what kind of news TheLocal.se reports sometimes. It is usually controversial or stupid events, premade for sites like FARK.com, no further selection needed. Controversial events like this would be big news here in Sweden and be picked up by all newsmedia. Only problem is that I have spent the last half hour trying to find another news article that mentions this event, and I can't find it. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if no other reports on it, maybe it didn't happen that way...

Thanks for the feedback. I keep considering looking at Sweden as a "Plan B" country to this zoo of a country. We're not so much a melting-pot as we are a fruitcake. However, I worry sometimes at the insane news I read on TheLocal.

Are there better English news sites for Sweden that are more ... let's go with "reliable"?


Well a quick search came up with stockholmnews.com (new window) sweden.se (new window) nordstjernan.com (new window) Not sure about the quality though, but isn't it true that we all complain about how news is reported?

My guess is that a news site that report news from a country in a foreign language have two target audiences:
1) Those genuinely interested in said country but don't speak the language.
2) Those that follow a link from a news aggregation website to read about some crazy, weird or otherwise noteworthy event.
The local have figured out that the latter group outnumber the first by a whole lot, so much that each article have buttons to submit it to Fark, Digg and Twitter. Having galleries of pretty girls found at the local pub probably doesn't hurt the hit counter either, NTTIAWWT...
 
2011-11-15 05:41:19 PM

CliChe Guevara: Wait, you are saying that you 'generally agree' that going home with anyone you meet at a bar or at a party where alcohol is served, by definition makes you a rapist? Am I getting that right? You are OK with that?

No one is talking about roofies or passed out people here, they have defined it as ANY level of alcohol. You both have a beer, you both go have sex, you are both happy with it - but you are a rapist whether you think so or not, and the girl is a victim whether she thinks so or not. That makes no sense whatsoever.


I meant I generally agreed with your post, not the "NO DRUNK FARKING EVER" idea. That wasn't clear, sorry (though the rest of my post should've made it a little more so).
 
2011-11-15 11:07:36 PM

Thorak: capilot: The Kanin study was crap. He studied one medium-sized town over the course of a small period of time.

All he showed was that there was something seriously wrong in that single town. I suspect that the real problem was that they had a cop who was unusually good at bullying women into dropping the charges.

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that women often lie or exaggerate things for various reasons. It has to be that a man was a bully. Because women are innocent dainty creatures, and men are all brutish neandertals.

Way to resort to misandry when you disagree with the evidence presented, though.


Dude? How do you get that from that? It was a very small study. It was in a single town. THAT'S what suggests one town has a problem with false accusations, or a bad cop (or prosecutor).

'women often lie or exaggerate things" do you even hear yourself???
 
2011-11-17 01:45:26 AM

CliChe Guevara: No one is talking about roofies or passed out people here, they have defined it as ANY level of alcohol. You both have a beer, you both go have sex, you are both happy with it - but you are a rapist whether you think so or not, and the girl is a victim whether she thinks so or not. That makes no sense whatsoever.


Other issues aside for the moment, it also makes no sense that the girl is automatically the victim and the boy is automatically the rapist. Women rape men, men rape men, women rape women --- all possible combinations do occur, though obviously not in equal amounts.
 
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