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(Foreign Policy) Obvious 19 true things Generals can't publicly admit about the war in Afghanistan. Scary tag just got blown up by an IED so Obvious tag is forced to stand in   (ricks.foreignpolicy.com) divider line 156
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9236 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Nov 2011 at 10:20 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2011-11-14 08:35:47 AM
Pretty much.

We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Iraq. A war we didn't need, a war that was pointless, and only served to distract and divert assets and effort. Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation, and with at least another two to hating the living Hells out of Americans. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all cheered while it was being done, are still cheering, and will blame anyone else but the folks responsible for this pass.

Congrats.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-11-14 08:59:17 AM
I heard a depressing interview on NPR, or maybe it was NHPR only, a few months ago. Some guy had written a book about defining victory in modern wars and the subject of the interview was that in the context of Afghanistan. Karzai came off sounding like our main enemy in the region.
 
2011-11-14 10:28:17 AM
hubiestubert: Pretty much.

We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Iraq. A war we didn't need, a war that was pointless, and only served to distract and divert assets and effort. Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation, and with at least another two to hating the living Hells out of Americans. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all cheered while it was being done, are still cheering, and will blame anyone else but the folks responsible for this pass.

Congrats.


We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Fartbama. A war we were winning, a war that was near its end, and only served to bring freedom to Afghanistan, and justice to those who attacked us. Deposing Saddam in Iraq really hurt Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region in preparation for the coming reckoning, and it should only take a year or two to become the shining Jeffersonian democracy of the Middle East. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all spat on our soldiers while it was being done, are still spitting, and will blame America first. The folks responsible for this will never get their due.

Congrats.

// the Republican response
// yes, I know, hubie - keep fighting the good fight
 
2011-11-14 10:28:17 AM
You have to trust me because I'm telling you stuff that by definition cannot be verified!

Some of those ring truish, some ring like unfounded worst-case speculation, but they all rely upon the assumption that the US *should* be in control of the FATA region and that a "defeat" is unacceptable, which I'm not sure is correct
 
2011-11-14 10:30:26 AM
hubiestubert: Pretty much.

We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Iraq. A war we didn't need, a war that was pointless, and only served to distract and divert assets and effort. Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation, and with at least another two to hating the living Hells out of Americans. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all cheered while it was being done, are still cheering, and will blame anyone else but the folks responsible for this pass.

Congrats.




You didn't read that very well.
 
2011-11-14 10:31:54 AM
But but but they hate our freedoms!
 
2011-11-14 10:36:21 AM
RolandGunner: hubiestubert: Pretty much.

We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Iraq. A war we didn't need, a war that was pointless, and only served to distract and divert assets and effort. Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation, and with at least another two to hating the living Hells out of Americans. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all cheered while it was being done, are still cheering, and will blame anyone else but the folks responsible for this pass.

Congrats.



You didn't read that very well.


herpderp.jpg
 
2011-11-14 10:36:46 AM
How long are the Obama apologists going to continue to blame Bush for Afghanistan? Obama's been Commander and Chief the of the US armed forces for 3 years now and you still hear a chorus of bu...bu...but Bush when you ask for victory in Afghanistan. Bush isn't President, Obama is.
 
2011-11-14 10:38:07 AM
Lost Thought 00: You have to trust me because I'm telling you stuff that by definition cannot be verified!

Some of those ring truish, some ring like unfounded worst-case speculation, but they all rely upon the assumption that the US *should* be in control of the FATA region and that a "defeat" is unacceptable, which I'm not sure is correct


Yeah, there's something about this article that rubs me the wrong way. It sounds like Afghanistan is clay to be molded as he sees fit. Or he's more concerned with making America look good than actually working for the best interests of the future of Afghanistan.
 
2011-11-14 10:38:27 AM
#20. We lost Vietnam II get over it.

It was a mistake from the beginning, their is a reason Afghanistan is called the graveyard of empires.
 
2011-11-14 10:39:54 AM
Muta: How long are the Obama apologists going to continue to blame Bush for Afghanistan? Obama's been Commander and Chief the of the US armed forces for 3 years now and you still hear a chorus of bu...bu...but Bush when you ask for victory in Afghanistan. Bush isn't President, Obama is.

you pride yourself on your work, huh?
 
2011-11-14 10:40:21 AM
Muta: How long are the Obama apologists going to continue to blame Bush for Afghanistan? Obama's been Commander and Chief the of the US armed forces for 3 years now and you still hear a chorus of bu...bu...but Bush when you ask for victory in Afghanistan. Bush isn't President, Obama is.

Their will never be victory in Afghanistan, it was not possible to win from the outset, and like Vietnam their is no honorable way out of that farking mess.
 
2011-11-14 10:43:38 AM
Slaves2Darkness: Their will never be victory in Afghanistan, it was not possible to win from the outset, and like Vietnam their is no honorable way out of that farking mess.

There, their, they're ... there are always solutions if a competent leader is in charge. Obama is just continuing Bush's failed policies.
 
2011-11-14 10:44:24 AM
Muta: How long are the Obama apologists going to continue to blame Bush for Afghanistan? Obama's been Commander and Chief the of the US armed forces for 3 years now and you still hear a chorus of bu...bu...but Bush when you ask for victory in Afghanistan. Bush isn't President, Obama is.

Thanks for answering questions that no one asked.

Glenn Beck Raped and Murdered a young girl in 1990.
 
2011-11-14 10:44:44 AM
All of us "smarter than the military" types thought that Sunni-Shia civil war was inevitable in Iraq 5 years ago.

That said, the Sunnis and Shias in Iraq at least have a common language and the resources and location to benefit from the world economy. Pashtuns, Daris, and Baloch have none of those things in Afghanistan.

People forget that this area is just an accident of geography where the Russian Empire and British Empire could march no further. With NATO gone it will once again be a slave to its neighbors. It will be used as a base for one neighboring country to cast mayhem towards another. And it will continue until one of those neighbors who actually has skin in the game (NOT NATO) actually puts resources into subduing the area.
 
2011-11-14 10:45:18 AM
RolandGunner: hubiestubert: Pretty much.

We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Iraq. A war we didn't need, a war that was pointless, and only served to distract and divert assets and effort. Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation, and with at least another two to hating the living Hells out of Americans. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all cheered while it was being done, are still cheering, and will blame anyone else but the folks responsible for this pass.

Congrats.



You didn't read that very well.


Your handle casts a bad light on a very good Zevon song. You should be ashamed.
 
2011-11-14 10:50:03 AM
#20: Don't mention what's in "The Basement".
www.foreignpolicy.com
 
2011-11-14 10:50:37 AM
Pretty Much that but could add

-- Pakistan for various reasons is the real enemy and you have been fighting them by proxy through the Taliban

-- The Taliban does not like you , normal Afghans do not like you , The only ones tolerant of you is because you are serving their purpose in one way or another ,,,The only one who likes you is Karzai , and his corrupt clan and government. Who will be on the next plane out of there ( with their billions in stolen cash ) the moment you leave . So might as well "build" out of paper mache -- it would last just as long

--NATO allies are just going through the motions of support ,,, the Afghan army recruits ( those who don't quit, or are the Taliban ) are just going through the motions of following orders -- Others are going through the motions as long as the money is flowing their way --- so it is like a lingering fart on a crowded elevator , everyone holding their breath till the ride is over .

Graveyard of Empires was not an Advertising slogan

Do not get into a land war in Asia
 
2011-11-14 10:51:16 AM
Imagine a United States where there's a rabidly anti-Muslim minority, which would dearly love to eradicate that religion from the Earth. Not too hard, is it? Now imagine that a group, maybe several thousand strong, arranges to send a small group of saboteurs into Pakistan, and they cause a bunch of mosque bombings in which several thousand Muslims are killed. Pakistan quickly traces the terrorism back to the US and issues a demand to the US -- identify and capture every member of this group, and allow a large contingent of Pakistani troops to set up in the US to take custody of them and make sure the terrorist movement is obliterated, using whatever methods THEY consider legal and moral.

What the fark do you think the US would do? At what point would Americans begin liking the 100,000 Pakistani troops conducting bombing raids and shooting American citizens?

Grow the fark up, America. This was a pointless war, engaged in for emotional reasons, and which has caused more American death, injury, and monetary cost than any terrorist attack has done.
 
2011-11-14 10:52:10 AM
GentDirkly: All of us "smarter than the military" types thought that Sunni-Shia civil war was inevitable in Iraq 5 years ago.


Uh, did you miss it? There was a Sunni-shiate civil war in which Sunnis (and Christians and Jews) were ethnically cleansed from Baghdad and surrounding areas. Did you forget about that?
 
2011-11-14 10:52:56 AM
farking auto correct on S-h-i-i-t-e?
 
2011-11-14 10:55:17 AM
jigger: GentDirkly: All of us "smarter than the military" types thought that Sunni-Shia civil war was inevitable in Iraq 5 years ago.


Uh, did you miss it? There was a Sunni-shiate civil war in which Sunnis (and Christians and Jews) were ethnically cleansed from Baghdad and surrounding areas. Did you forget about that?


Pretty sure the west bank of the Tigris is still a Sunni area. But yes, nearly all Iraqi Christians are now Jordanian or Syrian Christians.
 
2011-11-14 10:59:56 AM
What was the goal when we went into Afghanistan?

It was to go after Al-Qaeda, get revenge. Not nation-building, not humanitarian efforts, not spreading democracy to Central Asia.

Nothing short of cold-blooded vengeance, and we got it. Now, we pack up and go home.
 
2011-11-14 11:00:15 AM
The last person to pacify that part of the world was Alexander. There's a reason why we're still talking about him 2,300 years later.
 
2011-11-14 11:03:01 AM
I would like to send Michelle Bachmann over there to ask them to pay for this war. I am sure hilarity would ensue.
 
2011-11-14 11:04:17 AM
SixPaperJoint: RolandGunner: hubiestubert: Pretty much.

We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Iraq. A war we didn't need, a war that was pointless, and only served to distract and divert assets and effort. Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation, and with at least another two to hating the living Hells out of Americans. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all cheered while it was being done, are still cheering, and will blame anyone else but the folks responsible for this pass.

Congrats.



You didn't read that very well.

Your handle casts a bad light on a very good Zevon song. You should be ashamed.


Well, not only does he make the ignorant assumption that targeting Iraq lost Afghanistan (all the problems the built up Afghanistan force is now is precisely what they were facing all along), but he then goes on to make the idiotic conclusion that Iraq is now a destabilizing force in the region due to al Qaeda (which isn't an effective force in Iraq anymore... the primary threat their is al Sadr and the Iranians), ignoring the destabilizing nature of Iraq BEFORE the war.


Also, do you dopes want to argue that Iraq is destabilized and Egypt and Libya aren't? Or was getting involved in those countries destabilizing as well? I mean, for farks sake, the reason we got involved in Libya was to supposedly keep Qaddafi from "stabilizing" his country in the exact same way Saddam Saddam used to.
 
2011-11-14 11:07:10 AM
Oh, and by the way, this is the best line of hubiestubert's derpy post:

Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation

Hah hah, yeah... the middle East was so stable up until 2003..
 
2011-11-14 11:08:04 AM
Lord Dimwit: The last person to pacify that part of the world was Alexander. There's a reason why we're still talking about him 2,300 years later.

What about Michael Caine and Sean Connery??
 
2011-11-14 11:08:27 AM
Odd that Americans on the left and right agree to the pointlessness of this war, yet we are still there.
 
2011-11-14 11:10:40 AM
Magic_Button: Pretty Much that but could add

-- Pakistan for various reasons is the real enemy and you have been fighting them by proxy through the Taliban


Which is why we should be using the 1 billion people next door as meatshields. Open up some customer service jobs while we're at it.
 
2011-11-14 11:11:04 AM
monoski: I would like to send Michelle Bachmann over there to ask them to pay for this war. I am sure hilarity would ensue.

I'll gladly cover her airline ticket.
 
2011-11-14 11:12:25 AM
None of this is news to anyone who pays attention or doesn't watch FOX.
 
2011-11-14 11:12:57 AM
Afghans didn't get the memo about all our successes, so they are positioning themselves for the post-American civil war.

*sigh*

60 Minutes did a(nother fantastic) piece from Afghanistan for the 9/11 anniversary, discussing our occupation with the troops stationed there and the villages they were helping. 99% of the Afghans had no idea why the Americans were there, and only one person in Kabul could identify what was happening in a picture of the jets crashing into the WTC, and only in the most rudimentary understanding.
 
2011-11-14 11:13:00 AM
We're spending $10 billion dollars a month on the war in Afghanistan, while America's economy and infrastructure crumbles.
 
2011-11-14 11:17:56 AM
Wow... that's probably the most frank and depressing summary of Afghanistan I've seen. Plus it has the ring of truth to it.
 
2011-11-14 11:19:12 AM
Therion: We're spending $10 billion dollars a month on the war in Afghanistan, while America's economy and infrastructure crumbles.

Look at the bright side, if you're a member of the GOP, it's not doing a damn bit of good to improve the standard of living for the middle class.
 
2011-11-14 11:21:36 AM
Therion: We're spending $10 billion dollars a month on the war in Afghanistan, while America's economy and infrastructure crumbles.

Socialism's bad, mkay?
 
2011-11-14 11:23:10 AM
RolandGunner:

Holy shiat you're stupid.
 
2011-11-14 11:23:44 AM
RolandGunner: SixPaperJoint: RolandGunner: hubiestubert: Pretty much.

We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Iraq. A war we didn't need, a war that was pointless, and only served to distract and divert assets and effort. Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation, and with at least another two to hating the living Hells out of Americans. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all cheered while it was being done, are still cheering, and will blame anyone else but the folks responsible for this pass.

Congrats.



You didn't read that very well.

Your handle casts a bad light on a very good Zevon song. You should be ashamed.

Well, not only does he make the ignorant assumption that targeting Iraq lost Afghanistan (all the problems the built up Afghanistan force is now is precisely what they were facing all along), but he then goes on to make the idiotic conclusion that Iraq is now a destabilizing force in the region due to al Qaeda (which isn't an effective force in Iraq anymore... the primary threat their is al Sadr and the Iranians), ignoring the destabilizing nature of Iraq BEFORE the war.


Also, do you dopes want to argue that Iraq is destabilized and Egypt and Libya aren't? Or was getting involved in those countries destabilizing as well? I mean, for farks sake, the reason we got involved in Libya was to supposedly keep Qaddafi from "stabilizing" his country in the exact same way Saddam Saddam used to.


You said Saddam twice.
 
2011-11-14 11:24:02 AM
There are a lot of good points in there, but this one is an exception:

We don't know why we are here,

This is why we are there:

i40.tinypic.com

More people died in that attack then died when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Unlike the Japanese attack, though, which was aimed exclusively at US military forces, the 9/11 attacks were aimed, for the most part, at civilians.
 
2011-11-14 11:27:57 AM
dahmers love zombie: minority

not sure you have the right definition of minority.
 
2011-11-14 11:28:26 AM
dittybopper: This is why we are there:

We're there to...catch that guy before he hits the ground? Is there a reason you think that picture is relevant?
 
2011-11-14 11:29:52 AM
sprawl15: RolandGunner:

Holy shiat you're stupid.




Ah sprawl, showing off your inability to make a counterargument again, I see.



SixPaperJoint: You said Saddam twice.



So I did. Nice rebuttal.
 
2011-11-14 11:31:28 AM
dittybopper: There are a lot of good points in there, but this one is an exception:

We don't know why we are here,

This is why we are there:

[i40.tinypic.com image 340x432]

More people died in that attack then died when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Unlike the Japanese attack, though, which was aimed exclusively at US military forces, the 9/11 attacks were aimed, for the most part, at civilians.


I don't see how getting mired in a pointless war is cathartic.
 
2011-11-14 11:32:24 AM
I knew I should have saved it.

Does anyone have that image of "Wars Ended" where it shows the number of wars ended by President Bush, and President Obama, and Mr.Bush is at negative two?
 
2011-11-14 11:32:54 AM
dittybopper: This is why we are there:

More people died in that attack then died when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Unlike the Japanese attack, though, which was aimed exclusively at US military forces, the 9/11 attacks were aimed, for the most part, at civilians.


A couple things come to mind.

One, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbour, JAPAN did it. Not a pan-Asian militant terrorist organization who's membership consisted of mostly non-Japanese Asians.

Two, it's nice to have some actionable intelligence before committing hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars to an undertaking prior to avenging the deaths of approximately 3000 people. Especially if that action is going to weaken the standing of your country to the point where it will be unable to deal with any subsequent domestic or foreign challenges in a meaningful way.
 
2011-11-14 11:35:41 AM
winterwhile: stewmadness: Odd that Americans on the left and right agree to the pointlessness of this war, yet we are still there.

its Obama's war, so the left likes it


Oh look! Michael Steele's a FARKer!!

And he's still an idiot!

1.bp.blogspot.com

Hibbeldy Bibbledy!!
 
2011-11-14 11:36:14 AM
Yep. Thank you once again, George W. Bush, for waving this country's dick hard and high to our great detriment.
 
2011-11-14 11:36:43 AM
hubiestubert: Pretty much.

We boned this one, when we switched efforts over to Iraq. A war we didn't need, a war that was pointless, and only served to distract and divert assets and effort. Deposing Saddam in Iraq opened up the country to Al Qaida and other militants, and pretty much sealed the region to unrest and conflict for at least a generation, and with at least another two to hating the living Hells out of Americans. We did this, and we allowed it to be done in our name, and worse, some of y'all cheered while it was being done, are still cheering, and will blame anyone else but the folks responsible for this pass.

Congrats.


Yes, that, except I didn't cheer for it at all. Unfortunately, nobody cares a whole lot about the opinions of a 19-year-old student in Buttfark, TX when it comes to whether or not we charge headlong into pointless orgies of destruction.
 
2011-11-14 11:37:36 AM
RolandGunner: sprawl15: RolandGunner:

Holy shiat you're stupid.

Ah sprawl, showing off your inability to make a counterargument again, I see.


You'd need to make a valid argument before demanding counterarguments instead of mockery.
 
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