It would be huge news if the choices weren't Kevin Kolb and John Skelton, or if the Cardinals were even remotely in playoff contention.

I was one of about 3 people in Cardinal Nation lobbying against the Kolb trade, and I was the one banging the drum, arguing that as Whiz drafted Skelton, he should play him. Ride it out.

well, here we are, after having paid Kolb something like $46M / $22-ish guaranteed, and he's 1-6. Skelton is a shaky 2-0. but 2-0 nonetheless.

Whiz is done.

Graves is done. the FA signing and draft, exce[t for Dockett, P², a handful of others, haven't borne fruit. we passed on Adrian Peterson after all.

start over.

Or if the Cardinals weren't terrible

rickythepenguin: I was one of about 3 people in Cardinal Nation lobbying against the Kolb trade, and I was the one banging the drum, arguing that as Whiz drafted Skelton, he should play him. Ride it out.

well, here we are, after having paid Kolb something like $46M / $22-ish guaranteed, and he's 1-6. Skelton is a shaky 2-0. but 2-0 nonetheless.

You want DRC back? How about DRC & Vick. We'll trade you both.

You mean the team that's going to be mathematically eliminated from their division next week?

John Skeletor is a Master of the Offense.

rickythepenguin: I was one of about 3 people in Cardinal Nation lobbying against the Kolb trade, and I was the one banging the drum, arguing that as Whiz drafted Skelton, he should play him. Ride it out.

well, here we are, after having paid Kolb something like $46M / $22-ish guaranteed, and he's 1-6. Skelton is a shaky 2-0. but 2-0 nonetheless.

Whiz is done.

Graves is done. the FA signing and draft, exce[t for Dockett, P2, a handful of others, haven't borne fruit. we passed on Adrian Peterson after all.

start over.

Enjoy your new coach: Norv Turner

MugzyBrown: You want DRC back? How about DRC & Vick. We'll trade you both.


For all of his faults, DRC could make some plays. and what has been a problem with Arizona this year? the secondary.

it wasn't that i was in love with DRC. It was that we vastly, grossly overpaid for an unproven QB but the larger point was that Whiz and Graves had burned through QB after QB after QB and we were still, as of July, chasing QBs. hello?

whiz inherited Warner. Whiz benched warner for leinart. people forget that Warner only got the job back the year before the super bowl year due to Leinart snapping his collarbone in half.

Leinart. gone.
BSP. (brought over from Pittsburgh). Gone.
DA. signed by Graves and whiz. gone.
Skelton. drafted, now 2-0.
Max Hall. drafted by graves and whiz. gone.
Bartel. UFL qb. signed late 2010. on roster.
Kolb. Not working out.

thing is, there's another one in there i'm forgetting. 7 QBs in about 18 months. and don't forget, prior to Kolb, there was talk of us making a run at Kyle Orton and or Trent Green.

Yanks_RSJ: It would be huge news if the choices weren't Kevin Kolb and John Skelton, or if the Cardinals were even remotely in playoff contention.

This

Seriously though, who's going to be willing to coach Arizona next year? Tom Cable?

rickythepenguin: Skelton. drafted, now 2-0.
Max Hall. drafted by graves and whiz. gone


Skelton is like 4-2 or 5-2 overall and Hall was an undrafted free agent.

I was arguing against getting Kolb as well.

rickythepenguin: Trent Green.

You're supposed to go from Trent Green to Kurt Warner, not the other way around!

Nadie_AZ: netweavr: Seriously though, who's going to be willing to coach Arizona next year? Tom Cable?

This is my point. They won't find anybody.

Tom Cable isn't a bad choice. Norv Turner will be available as well (probably).

Who?

Nadie_AZ: This blows my mind. Are you serious? How can you be remotely serious? You must be mad. How many coaches have take the Cardinals to the playoffs since they came to Arizona? 2. And what happened after the first remarkable run? They booted all their good core players and sunk to shiatty times, again. Oh and then booted the coach.


completely different regimes. the old cardinals didn't have a cash cow. bidwill fils has been spending moeny in ways Pop never would. that's the biggest reason for the recent success.

2008: 9-7, super bowl run
2009: i think 10-6; lost @ NO, kurt walks
2010: 5-11
2011: ????

what are the constants?

1) o line sucks. why did whiz bring what's his name here with him? to fix the line.
2) FA signings have been awful. joey porter, kolb (i'd give him an incomplte, in fairness)...who else.
3) the draft. missed on leinart, passed on AP to take Levi Brown, i think (see point #1), Breaston we had to let walk, Dansby we let walk, Beanie Wells is a C+, Doucet is finally starting to come around....
4) the QB situation.

no more goodwill. it's gone. in case you werent' aware, there's a pretty good team in california that appears to have all the building blcoks in place for a 2-3 year run.

you'd settle for another 8-8 season and missing the playoffs?

lastly....Whiz in large part got this job because of his "development" (his word, not mine) of Roethlisberger. why are we still looking for a QB after all the QB moves he and Graves made? Aside from inheriting warner, who has he "developed"?


*slams mic on stage, walks off*

is anyone surprised?

what do Andre Ware, David Klingler, Kevin Kolb, (and soon Case Keenum) have in common?

neuroflare: I was arguing against getting Kolb as well.

i wish i'd bookmarked those threads, from that wild wild west free agency period afte rthe lockout ended. i was begging Redbird Nation not to do do it.


netweavr: Tom Cable isn't a bad choice. Norv Turner will be available as well (probably).

no retreads. do the mike tomlin, tampa bay (not that they're having a great year), harbaugh type hire. take a chance on a young guy. granted that didn't work out ofr Denver but....come on man.

As a Giants fan, I farking hate Eli Manning. This "debate" over his eliteness is crap. He's an average QB with a flash of greatness here and there. When Rodgers, P. Manning or Brady play, you always have the sense their respective teams can win. Not so with Eli.
Reminds me of Jeff Hostetler in a way. Took over for Simms, had a great run, won a Super Bowl, never heard from again. Unfortunately, we are stuck with the lesser Manning.

rickythepenguin: neuroflare: I was arguing against getting Kolb as well.

i wish i'd bookmarked those threads, from that wild wild west free agency period afte rthe lockout ended. i was begging Redbird Nation not to do do it.


netweavr: Tom Cable isn't a bad choice. Norv Turner will be available as well (probably).

no retreads. do the mike tomlin, tampa bay (not that they're having a great year), harbaugh type hire. take a chance on a young guy. granted that didn't work out ofr Denver but....come on man.

Tom Cable did fine in Oakland. The team steadily improved under him and that was despite He Who Shall Not Be Named at QB. His option wasn't picked-up (not fired), because Al Davis had a hard-on for Hue Jackson.

Nobody in college-land looks like an obvious pick-up. Hell, a lot of coaches would take Penn State over Arizona. You want a young guy? Peyton Manning? Who are you going to get? You can't just fire a guy on the hopes of randomly finding *the guy* to take over. There has to be options already in mind.

So again, who do you want to take over? Tom Cable? Norv Turner? Brian Billick? Gruden (the other one, not the announcer one)?

DubyaHater: As a Giants fan, I farking hate Eli Manning. This "debate" over his eliteness is crap. He's an average QB with a flash of greatness here and there. When Rodgers, P. Manning or Brady play, you always have the sense their respective teams can win. Not so with Eli.
Reminds me of Jeff Hostetler in a way. Took over for Simms, had a great run, won a Super Bowl, never heard from again. Unfortunately, we are stuck with the lesser Manning.

Career-wise he may not be elite. I could certainly argue that he's played at an elite level this year though. He's having easily the best season of his career.

Nadie_AZ: He was drafted before Whizenhunt got to AZ.

graves was here though, as he's been since what.....jeez....how long has he been here?

leinart is a tough one also. he didn't perform despite being given chance after chance to win the job (and the aforementioned injury). it goes down as a "draft miss" but....ehh. i'm not entirely blaming the franchise for that, he bears a lot of that himself.

but pro sports is a production based business. for too long, we've seen a lack of production at virtually every position. and the same people are in charge.

i mean, Whiz has burned through 3 DCs in 4 years. He brings Ray Horton in to revamp the offense. Uh.....revamp on a 3-6 record.

far more missteps than positives the last 3 years.

i mean, would you put it past the team to draft a QB? we might have to, just to back up Kolb. Whether or not Kolb (or Skelton) finishes the season, you could legitimately say that with a pretty deep QB class and teh Cardinals likely having a top 7, perhaps top 5 pick, that we should take a QB.

How many times do we have to see this movie over (leinart cut) and over (Kolb signging) and over (Hall drafted, cut) and over (Skelton) and over (Bartel) and over (BSP) and over (flirting with Orton and Trent Green) again?

The bigger story is how much money Vick gets paid, how awesome the Eagles are supposed to be and they get beat down by Arizona playing a backup QB? HAHAHAHA, dream team.....how cute.

The Vikings have already gone through one this season for the better. Ponder is playing so much better than McNabb. I hope bringing in the backup also works for AZ, since we do not have to play them again this season.

wjllope: is anyone surprised?

what do Andre Ware, David Klingler, Kevin Kolb, (and soon Case Keenum) have in common?

Same thing as Timmy Chang and Colt Brennan and Kliff Kingsberry and BJ Simons and Graham Harrell.

Nadie_AZ: netweavr: Seriously though, who's going to be willing to coach Arizona next year? Tom Cable?

This is my point. They won't find anybody.

I'll do it.

Nadie_AZ: So I'm of the opinion that they look to FA for a QB and keep working the draft for the O line and other pieces. You want a good team- we all do. But developing a QB requires patience, and the crowds here seem to have none of that.


no one was banging the drum harder for Whiz than me after the super bowl run. but that was 3 years ago! I invoke the Tao of Colin Cowherd: "live in the 'is', not in the 'was'." this is a bad team with a huge question mark at QB. this is a team that will miss the playoffs for the second year. This is a team that will have a top 10 draft pick at least next year.

as for patience, oh, i've paid my dues. many a day frying my ass on Sun Devil Stadium's aluminum seats. 25,000 people, 23,000 wearing the opposing team's gear.

THAT'S MY FORDHAM BOY!

Most important thing the team can do immediately is lock up campbell long term

dletter: Arizona.... where people from Minnesota go to retire.

the greatest sports moment I ever saw live in person was the final game of the 2003 season, Arizona hosting Minnesota. the Cards were something awful like 2-13 or 3-12. the Vikes, meanwhile, were sitting on something like 11 wins, and battling GB for the playoff spot. For the Vikes to make the playoffs, they needed I think a GB loss and no worse than a tie with the Cardinals.

4th quarter. Viking 17-6. under 2 minutes left. Word got out that GB lost. Huge cheer goes up. there was a sea of Viking gold and purple in the stadium.

Arizona, TD. 17-12. 2pt conversion fails.

Arizona, onside kick. Recovered! there's like under a minute left. McCown gets a few completions, then misses. with about 10 seconds left, we're stting 4th and 25 on Minnesota's 27. broken play, McCown scrambles, i think the clock had expired. McCown, from the left side of the field, thorws a desperation heave to the opposite corner. Keith Poole catches the ball inbounds in the air, but is pushed out. Incomplete? vikings win, onto the playoffs. Complete? TD pass, Arizona wins.

Both teams rushed the field. The refs announced they were reviewing the play. fro 2-3 minutes, both teams were on the field shaking hands. refs come out, "player caugh the ball in the end zone, was then forced out* of by defense, by rule, TD pass". BALLGAME!!!

never heard 52,734 people be so quiet.

Now....aside from knocking the Vikes out of the playoffs, the win cost Arizona what probably would have been the #1 pick overall in the 2004 draft. That April, the San Diego chargers drafted Eli Manning #1 overall. Good career for the kid. Arizona fell to the #3 pick....where.....They grabbed a WR out of Pitt. Ironically enough, he was a ballboy for the Vikings as a kid. Perhaps you've heard of him.

Larry. Darnell. Fitzgerald. Jr.



And now? You know. The rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the story. Good day!

*NFL no longer has the "force out rule", i bielieve

A few years back, I had to listen to my brother rattle on and on about how Kevin Kolb was going to be the next great Eagles QB, and how they needed to get rid of McNabb because he could never win the big game. Then along came Vick. Me, I was never sold on Kolb, and as a Cardinals fan, I wasn't thrilled about giving up DRC, a second rounder and a chunk of guaranteed cash for an unproved QB. But the writer of the article is right when he says the Kolb deal got Fitzgerald on board for another 5 years, so in that respect, I guess it was a necessary evil. Kolb was a short-term solution to resolve a long-term issue (getting Fitzgerald to stay), but I don't see Kolb as the answer at QB, and never did.

rickythepenguin: the win cost Arizona what probably would have been the #1 pick overall in the 2004 draft. That April, the San Diego chargers drafted Eli Manning #1 overall. Good career for the kid.


also, a cool "alternate history" thought experiement to be had.....just as Eli told the Chargers, "don't bother drafting me, you suck ass" and engineered a deal to go elsewhere, you can't help but wonder what team the Cardinals partner up with in that scenario. Or, does Ernie Accorsi et al do with arizona the same thing they did with San Diego?

think about that. if the plot is the same, then Philip Rivers is in Cardinal gear in 2004, not Larry Fitz.

pretty cool.

Nadie_AZ: rickythepenguin: Whiz is done.

Graves is done.

This blows my mind. Are you serious? How can you be remotely serious? You must be mad. How many coaches have take the Cardinals to the playoffs since they came to Arizona? 2. And what happened after the first remarkable run? They booted all their good core players and sunk to shiatty times, again. Oh and then booted the coach.

Finally, and I don't care that Warner was a god send blessing in disguise, the Cardinals do something. And it was amazing. This coach and this General Manager do what NO ONE has done since 1947. NO ONE. And after Warner retires, what happens? Oh everybody in this town suddenly thinks that this team was a perennial powerhouse and these 2 brought shame. Goddamn, what an embarrassment to sit and listen and read about people wanting their heads, when they gave the franchise and their fans something no one has ever done before.

Jesus. Just stop. You will not find a better coach out there. You will not. You have solid pieces in place and need some more. Like every team. And, like every contender, you had players that rose above the rest. Since then, one has retired. One was let go via free agency. And so it goes.

Cardinals fans drive me insane. Marv Levy didn't win a single Super Bowl and yet he is practically a god up in Buffalo. And rightfully so. Wiz should be given a shiat ton of room to coach this team as long as he wants to.

You may get a shot at Andy Reid next year. But then you'll probably keep Kolb.

rickythepenguin: For the Vikes to make the playoffs, they needed I think a GB loss and no worse than a tie with the Cardinals.


oh and also, since the Vikings lost, that permitted Green Bay to backslide into the playoffs. To thank Poole for his catch, I vaguely recall GB inviting Poole to GB for the playoff game and giving him an honorary key to the city.

I forget the specifics but GB did something like that for Poole. It was kind of a big story here.