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(Washington Post) Obvious The main problem with a smart power grid? Dumb power customers   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 152
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18331 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Nov 2011 at 4:18 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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NFA [TotalFark]
2011-11-12 09:22:14 AM
Actually smart grid technology can be a dumb choice for many consumers. Here are two real world scenarios and a discussion of what's to come.

1) During peak demand the power company can turn off your appliances.

So when does peak demand occur? It occurs when the weather is the hottest or the coldest. So the power company can turn off your furnace or air conditioner during the worst imaginable weather. But why do they do this? One reason is because of an outdated overloaded power grid the other is the power company often buys power and during peak demand they pay the most. So they reduce peak demand and pocket an enormous profit. Meanwhile, your 90 year old granny can go up to 4 hours without A/C on a 100+ degree day. (yes it happens).

"After a sweltering day in which 72,000 BGE customers had their air conditioning turned off for multiple hours thanks to their participation in BGE's "Peak Rewards" program, BGE seems to have decided that the energy-saving program at its most intense was not a good idea. On a day when the temperature at BWI was 104 degrees, everybody who signed up for the "100 percent cycling" option in Peak Rewards had their AC shut off at 11:30 a.m. and didn't have it turned on again, BGE says, until "approximately 5:40 p.m."" Link (Link)

Additionally the switch boxes used to turn the power on and off fail after being turned off and won't switch back on, often leaving the consumer with no hot water, heat or A/C during the worst weather until a repairman can come to your home. My 80 year old father's hot water heater stopped working for over 24 hours and after a few minutes of trouble shooting I discovered the power company switch box failed. I simply bypassed it. Then a few months later during a snow storm he lost his heat in the middle of the night and woke up to a freezing house I drove to his house stood out in the snow working on his heat pump until I again discovered the power company switch box had failed, I bypassed it.

2) During periods of power usage the power company pays a different wholesale rate for the power it buys. During the times of peak usage, the rate is highest. With the smart gird technology, the power company can dynamically change the cost of your electricity through out the day and bill you a higher rate during the coldest and warmest days. So not only will you pay more for stabilizing the temperature of your home during the worst hot and cold weather, you'll pay a substantially higher rate for that power. It will be a double whammy that will put a smile on the faces of that power company executives.

3) More and more Americans are using and considering electric vehicles. It's projected that an increasing percentage of Americans will own electric cars or fuel cell cars (use fuel but generate electricity). The smart gird techology guidelines which already exist will entitle the power to take energy from the battery or fuel cell of your car during periods of peak use. HOWEVER, they do not have to pay you the prevailing rate and instead pay a fractional rate. In other words, they sell you power at price 10 cents per kilowatt hour but force you to sell it back at a price of X/10 or 1 cent per kilowatt hour.

In a nutshell the power companies have setup "Smart Grid Technology" to be yet another method to fleece the consumer and increase profits.

Want to save energy? Use florescent or LED lighting, buy a high efficiency air conditioner, insulate your home, but a hybrid hot water heater and cut the cost heating your water in half.

Smart grid technology is looking pretty dumb to anyone smart enough to understand what it actually does.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-11-12 09:54:28 AM
There was a report last year about emissions from electric cars. The study assumed a smart grid where the cars would be charged from hydro power at 2 AM. I think reality is plug in the car when you get home and charge it up from fossil fuel plants during peak demand.
 
2011-11-12 10:20:28 AM
Yeah but...

I can think of several huge sources of the concern over peak power and the need for the "smart grid". First, consumer demand isn't going to get any less voluntarily. The few who will do their part are hardly significant. Second, the power grid and power plants are aging and inadequate to meet future demands, in large part due to the NIMBY factor, and also due to the enormous cost and red tape that comes with new construction. Third, electricity produced by "peaking" plants such as gas turbines and coal plants is more polluting than power produced by "base load" plants such as hydro and nuclear. Fourth, energy purchased by, say, California from some other region such as Arizona is far more expensive than power produced in the home territory. So what can be done? Cut down the peak. This can happen voluntarily, or it can happen with a reasonable amount of inconvenience by opting-in to the smart grid, or it can happen with rolling blackouts, but it is going to happen. What's your choice?
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2011-11-12 12:10:07 PM
This About That: Yeah but...

There is no doubt we need to improve both the efficiency of every power device we use AND our power infrastructure. Unfortunately the power industry is using the valid need for a smart grid and designing a system made to fleece the customer.

The power grid is becoming increasingly unstable because of neglect has little or nothing to do with the 'not in my backyard' mindset. In the most simple terms it costs a lot of money to maintain the grid and it's very, very easy to not complete needed maintenance and make extra money in a given quarter. In Maryland the power company lobbied local counties to take over maintenance of the power lines on most streets. Then the power company doubled the monthly delivery charger. The delivery charge is there to cover maintenance, meter reading and general upkeep of the power grid. Then the counties have had to raise taxes to cover tree cutting and use tax dollars to pay the power company to maintain the power lines a second time. The cash strapped counties have let the tree cutting go and as a result every time we have a tropical or ice storm there are wide spread power outages last upwards of a week. People are even dying as a result.

People need to do a better job using efficient products and the first step is to make them affordable and within reach of the customer.
 
2011-11-12 01:21:08 PM
Oh, that's my power company. I had no idea about the CEO. That's pretty sweet.

The smart grid has been one of the most talked-about issues in energy policy. Experts - and manufacturers of equipment and software - have promoted the idea that "smart meters" could enable utilities to flip household appliances on and off to ease the load of summertime electricity demand and that the devices would help homeowners manage their refrigerators, lights and air conditioning, even controlling them remotely with cellphones, laptops or tablets. Smart grid technology is also seen as critical for integrating renewable energy sources onto grids designed to carry power one way only, from big clunky generating stations to the home.

My hubby grew up in Switzerland and he told me they did this all the time there, though it was through community-level mutual decision-making, not through remote technology. Of course, there's more of a sense of social cohesion there and care for the environment so who knows what Americans would say if we tried to implement something like that here. Probably lots of whargarrbl and derp.
 
2011-11-12 01:43:06 PM
1) The simplest benefit to even a rudimentary smart grid: The power company will instantly know which customers are without power, and where the breaks occurred. Link that to some basic software that communicates with the trucks in the field, and you're adding a lot of uptime. This is good for customers (shorter outages) and power companies (customer satisfaction, plus you use 0 billable kW-hr during an outage).

My cable and phone company (non-critical infrastructure) has this ability, and can even remotely reboot my cable box, run tests without coming to my home, etc. In the meantime, after a storm, I routinely see guys from the power company (critical infrastructure) driving around in trucks and visually inspecting the lines, hoping to see what the problem is.

2) The CEO in the article is also probably right that America can save more electricity with insulation, caulking guns, outlet gaskets, expanding foam, etc. (There's still about seven weeks left in the year if you've been procrastinating on this but would want the limited tax credit on purchasing materials for this.) Still, it's not like you can't try to do both.
 
2011-11-12 03:13:46 PM
And then there's this guy. (Video, new window)

/facepalm
 
2011-11-12 03:32:13 PM
exiledonline.com
No matter what you do or do not do to save a buck
We will do what we want to when we want to to get that buck
If you want electricity and gas utilities service
You will feed the beast your hard-earned cash
You will pay the monopoly one way or another
Forever
 
2011-11-12 04:21:54 PM
I loved my 'smart grid'. It was opt-in. I got hourly pricing and the 'cost' to me was I gave them permission to kill my AC 5 times between June 1 and Sept 1.

Out of it I got an awesome web page where I could set the temp for my house.
 
2011-11-12 04:24:00 PM
I like stock footage and file photos

www.washingtonpost.com
 
2011-11-12 04:28:39 PM
The lack of education and understanding, paranoia and conspiracy theories concerning smart grid technology is amazing. How can otherwise intelligent people be so dumb when it comes to something that is mostly a good idea. I agree that there are some issues that have not been addressed, and there will be issues in the future that we can't even conceive of yet. But there is nothoing about smart grid technology for people to be afraid of.
 
2011-11-12 04:31:17 PM
ZAZ: There was a report last year about emissions from electric cars. The study assumed a smart grid where the cars would be charged from hydro power at 2 AM. I think reality is plug in the car when you get home and charge it up from fossil fuel plants during peak demand.

Plug it in when you get home, sure, but put it on a timer.

Speaking of which, this might be a good time to ask a question about timers. Natural gas is a big problem in South America. A lot of appliances in Chile use it, but there's not enough, and it's expensive, so there's a lot of effort to minimize use. (There's some weird geopolitical shenanigans going on involving countries dealing in natural gas, but never mind that right now.) One thing a lot of people do is turn off the hot water heater at night and turn it back on in the morning. For a while I was renting a room from a family in a nice little house in Santiago that did exactly that: turn the hot water heater off before they went to bed, then got up and turned it on in the morning. This led to some unhappiness (freezing cold showers at 6 am on winter mornings), so I asked them, "Why not put the system on a timer, so you don't have to set your alarm clock every morning just to turn the heater on?"

They claimed it would be way too expensive.

I figured, some kid of automatic cut-on switch on a timer, how expensive can it be?

So you tell me, please, is this really such an expensive thing to install in a house?

/Not to mention how weird it is for someone from North America and be freezing cold in July.
 
2011-11-12 04:31:38 PM
Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: I agree that there are some issues that have not been addressed, and there will be issues in the future that we can't even conceive of yet. But there is nothoing about smart grid technology for people to be afraid of.

These two sentences, though physically near each other, seem to be contradictory. There are things to fear other than fear itself...such as your AC getting shut off at "peak times", when it's already doing an inadequate job.
 
2011-11-12 04:31:55 PM
Subby forgot to mention not having enough caulk.
 
2011-11-12 04:32:42 PM
According to this guy, the world needs more cock.

... Or something.
 
2011-11-12 04:37:28 PM
stevarooni: Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: I agree that there are some issues that have not been addressed, and there will be issues in the future that we can't even conceive of yet. But there is nothoing about smart grid technology for people to be afraid of.

These two sentences, though physically near each other, seem to be contradictory. There are things to fear other than fear itself...such as your AC getting shut off at "peak times", when it's already doing an inadequate job.


But that AC unit doesn't have to be included in the agreement you would make with your power company, if you decided to participate in the smart grid. The thing that all these paranoid people forget is that the smart grid is voluntary, and you decide what portions of your household you want included.
 
2011-11-12 04:39:12 PM
Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: The lack of education and understanding, paranoia and conspiracy theories concerning smart grid technology is amazing. How can otherwise intelligent people be so dumb when it comes to something that is mostly a good idea. I agree that there are some issues that have not been addressed, and there will be issues in the future that we can't even conceive of yet. But there is nothoing about smart grid technology for people to be afraid of.

The only thing smart power should be used for is:

a) educating customers about their power use (and give ideas for savings)

b) locating problems to restore power faster.

The other ideas, of actually using it to control the grid (i.e. by providing remote control to people's homes) just has too much potential for abuse. For example, power companies can start skimping on their investment in providing sufficient power, and just start cutting off more and more people more often.

Giving a corporation remote control of your house IS scary. If you don't realize the potential for corporations to make decisions that are adverse to the customer's interest then you've been in a coma for the past decade. Look at how Netflix has had to backtrack recently, or the banks regarding debit fees. The natural purpose of corporations is to squeeze customers, that is legally what they are supposed to do. And even if you don't buy into the profit motivation, they can also simply be mismanaged. Putting your interests in the hands of a corporation is a very bad idea.
 
2011-11-12 04:40:36 PM
Want to save some money? Get a programable thermostat. There is no reason to cool your house to 68 at 2 in the afternoon when no one is home and everyone is at work.

Had one at the previous place of residence. Doesn't have one now so I just turn the air or heat off when I leave in the morning.
 
2011-11-12 04:40:49 PM
It will also tell the authorities if you have 600w lights cycling on every 12 hours. Welcome to 1984 people.
 
2011-11-12 04:41:09 PM
...like I said, paranoia and conspiracy theories
 
2011-11-12 04:43:30 PM
As an electrical engineer who used to design substations for ABB I'm getting a kick etc.

/SVC's biatches
 
2011-11-12 04:43:42 PM
Nope, a proven fact for those of us living in Florida. At least according to the news papers. Those dang conspiracy factories.
 
2011-11-12 04:43:56 PM
Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: ...like I said, paranoia and conspiracy theories

We might well be jousting past one another, when terms need to be defined. What, fundamentally, is a "smart grid" to you? What's the minimum that makes it a smart grid? Given your comments about the "optional" nature of much of it, the barebones chunk could be something we'd agree on, handily.
 
2011-11-12 04:45:58 PM
Type this phrase into Google; "police electric records".

What was that about conspiracies? (crickets)
 
2011-11-12 04:46:20 PM
It is crazy how people will oppose a change just because it does not come tagged with a wad of cash which has a bow around it and a little note saying "this is the money from change X".

Cutting peak usage reduces peaking power plant usage, which is expensive as hell and factors into the overall electrical rate. Smart grid meters allow for the utility to know instantly when there is a power outage, and can help narrow down exactly where the failure is. And it doesn't mean that your A/C has to be off all day. When fully implemented means is that you and your neighbor's A/Cs alternate being on, or your A/C and refrigerator don't come on at the same time.
 
2011-11-12 04:46:49 PM
NFA: 3) More and more Americans are using and considering electric vehicles. It's projected that an increasing percentage of Americans will own electric cars or fuel cell cars (use fuel but generate electricity). The smart gird techology guidelines which already exist will entitle the power to take energy from the battery or fuel cell of your car during periods of peak use. HOWEVER, they do not have to pay you the prevailing rate and instead pay a fractional rate. In other words, they sell you power at price 10 cents per kilowatt hour but force you to sell it back at a price of X/10 or 1 cent per kilowatt hour.

I've tried to explain this to BEV enthusiasts, but they always prefer to believe that the Electric Utility is less greedy than the Oil Companies. At least the Oil Companies don't come around and siphon off your gas to sell to someone else...

That said, I do support the electrification of the auto, both battery and hydrogen fuel cell.
 
2011-11-12 04:47:33 PM
david_gaithersburg: What was that about conspiracies? (crickets)

Look, the police never abuse this kind of thing. And if they're investigating you, you're not innocent. It might be what they're specifically looking for, but you've doubtless done something bad, or they wouldn't suspect you at all! Warrantless search and seizure is just good police procedure.
 
2011-11-12 04:48:29 PM
Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: stevarooni: Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: I agree that there are some issues that have not been addressed, and there will be issues in the future that we can't even conceive of yet. But there is nothing about smart grid technology for people to be afraid of.

These two sentences, though physically near each other, seem to be contradictory. There are things to fear other than fear itself...such as your AC getting shut off at "peak times", when it's already doing an inadequate job.

But that AC unit doesn't have to be included in the agreement you would make with your power company, if you decided to participate in the smart grid. The thing that all these paranoid people forget is that the smart grid is voluntary, and you decide what portions of your household you want included.


The problem with the agreement; who writes it. Generally, it's the power company, and for them, your electricity would be all or nothing (probably because it's easier than segregating loads in your home). Air conditioning in the summer and electrical furnaces in the winter are the biggest users of electricity in your house, which is why peak seasons are in summer and winter, and why transmission lines and power plants do maintenance in spring and fall. If the grid isn't keeping up they're going to be looking at your biggest electrical draw, not your lights, to keep the grid and their plants working.

If it's such a great idea, I'm wondering why commercial properties, not residential ones, aren't the first to adopt, since any given office building has a much higher draw then a neighborhood of homes.
 
2011-11-12 04:51:27 PM
stevarooni: Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: ...like I said, paranoia and conspiracy theories

We might well be jousting past one another, when terms need to be defined. What, fundamentally, is a "smart grid" to you? What's the minimum that makes it a smart grid? Given your comments about the "optional" nature of much of it, the barebones chunk could be something we'd agree on, handily.


If the contract you had with your power company said they would cycle your AC, or your water heater, etc, say perhaps a maximum of 5 times during the summer months, for no more than 3 hours at a time, I wouldn't have a problem with that....it seems like a reasonable amount, at least initially. Since it's completely voluntary, and since you go in knowing when, and how much, the power company may cycle your power to whichever appliances you agreed to allow them some crontrol over, and since you would also get some financial benefit ou of the deal, I can't say I wouldn't at least consider it. Of course, it all depends on the contract, and what kind of control do I have vs. the control the power company would require.
 
2011-11-12 04:53:42 PM
chimp_ninja: 1) The simplest benefit to even a rudimentary smart grid: The power company will instantly know which customers are without power, and where the breaks occurred. Link that to some basic software that communicates with the trucks in the field, and you're adding a lot of uptime. This is good for customers (shorter outages) and power companies (customer satisfaction, plus you use 0 billable kW-hr during an outage).

My cable and phone company (non-critical infrastructure) has this ability, and can even remotely reboot my cable box, run tests without coming to my home, etc. In the meantime, after a storm, I routinely see guys from the power company (critical infrastructure) driving around in trucks and visually inspecting the lines, hoping to see what the problem is.

2) The CEO in the article is also probably right that America can save more electricity with insulation, caulking guns, outlet gaskets, expanding foam, etc. (There's still about seven weeks left in the year if you've been procrastinating on this but would want the limited tax credit on purchasing materials for this.) Still, it's not like you can't try to do both.


Hate to break it to you, but while we have the ability to reset your cable box, we still need techs to drive around and visually inspect cabling when its cut. There's a bit more to it than that, but in a nutshell its the same.
 
2011-11-12 04:53:56 PM
Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: ...like I said, paranoia and conspiracy theories

The power companies were granted a monopoly because it was feasible for municipalities to have one set of lines run to homes. In turn people were supposed to get better reliability. I think the power's been out at my place more in the past 3 months than it had been in the 30 years prior.
 
2011-11-12 04:54:08 PM
"smart meters" could enable utilities to flip household appliances on and off to ease the load

How about no. Not in my house. You keep your stinking paws off my A/C. It's set at 70 degrees in the summer for a reason, and I don't give a shiat what it costs me, I want to be cool.
 
2011-11-12 04:54:19 PM
please excuse the lack of spelling skills in my last post....laptop + weird angle = dumb
 
2011-11-12 04:56:23 PM
there their theyre: Want to save some money? Get a programable thermostat. There is no reason to cool your house to 68 at 2 in the afternoon when no one is home and everyone is at work.

Depends on the house and the inhabitants. A house with mediocre insulation may well be worse going up and down all the time.
Similarly, a house with little kids in and out all the time is not good either.

The real thing is - 68 in the afternoon. Try 72 or so.
 
2011-11-12 04:57:23 PM
Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: otherwise intelligent people

I think there is a false assumption in your question.

/happy for smart grid, I benefit at the expense of my stupid neighbors
 
2011-11-12 04:59:53 PM
Lets try this again:

I took a cruise out of Jacksonville, FL this
www.schrimsher.com

was near the embarkation site. I mentioned to our driver, "you guys have nuclear power" the driver then proceeded to argue with me that no they were "coal plants" and that his congressperson told him it was coal and that I should leave it at that.
 
2011-11-12 05:01:34 PM
OrionXVI: .

If it's such a great idea, I'm wondering why commercial properties, not residential ones, aren't the first to adopt, since any given office building has a much higher draw then a neighborhood of homes.


Because commercial buildings pay a higher rate than residential. You don't think the power companies are going to cut power that they get more money from, do you?
 
2011-11-12 05:03:16 PM
Guidette Frankentits: Lets try this again:

I took a cruise out of Jacksonville, FL this
[www.schrimsher.com image 640x480]

was near the embarkation site. I mentioned to our driver, "you guys have nuclear power" the driver then proceeded to argue with me that no they were "coal plants" and that his congressperson told him it was coal and that I should leave it at that.


Dumb power customers, indeed!
 
2011-11-12 05:04:30 PM
Seems we could have had a green initiative that benefits individuals for a much lower cost than all this by simply offering very generous tax breaks (even to the point of creating a negative tax balance for some people) for simply re-insulating your house, or adding double paned windows, or a cistern system, or . ..
 
2011-11-12 05:05:02 PM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: there their theyre: Want to save some money? Get a programable thermostat. There is no reason to cool your house to 68 at 2 in the afternoon when no one is home and everyone is at work.

Depends on the house and the inhabitants. A house with mediocre insulation may well be worse going up and down all the time.
Similarly, a house with little kids in and out all the time is not good either.

The real thing is - 68 in the afternoon. Try 72 or so.


You're always better off letting the temp swing. Thermal transfer is not linear, but instead squares with the difference in temp, iirc.

/don't think it cubes.
 
2011-11-12 05:05:46 PM
Mark my words, when everything starts becoming more efficient and power demand drops, the rates will be raised to offset the loss. Yeah I know blah blah their costs come down as well but just watch...
 
2011-11-12 05:07:23 PM
Guidette Frankentits: Lets try this again:

I took a cruise out of Jacksonville, FL this
[www.schrimsher.com image 640x480]

was near the embarkation site. I mentioned to our driver, "you guys have nuclear power" the driver then proceeded to argue with me that no they were "coal plants" and that his congressperson told him it was coal and that I should leave it at that.


============================

Those are coal plants. The closest nuke plant is on the west coast in Crystal River. It sounds like you made a fool of yourself.
 
2011-11-12 05:07:42 PM
FTA: Improving the grid wouldn't take much, given its condition. As Bob Shapard, chief executive of the Texas utility Oncor Electric Delivery, says, most meters being replaced date from the 1960s - "older technology than rotary phones."

upload.wikimedia.org
Would tend to disagree.
 
2011-11-12 05:08:51 PM
My power company has a flat rate and a time-of-day rate billing plan. On each bill, they tell you how much you saved or lost by being on your current plan as opposed to the other one. You are free to be on either plan. I personally use a time-of-day plan because I have a swimming pool. I run the filter pumps during the off hours, saving about $10-$15/mo. I also avoid things like running the electric clothes dryer or the vacuum cleaner during peak hours.

The relay switch issue that NFA brought up in his story will eventually go away when the main control units are integrated into the smart grid. That, or his dad's utility will learn to stop buying relays from China. Either way, it is a short-term problem.

Also, many utilities are regulated monopolies. So no, many don't just "pocket the cash" that they save from avoiding purchases on the spot market. That have to report those savings back to the state utilities commission, who in turn have the authority to require those utilities to pass the savings along.

The senior citizen issue sounds like a difficult one to work around. Pensioners who live at home will often want to run their A/C units during mid-day summer months. To compound the problem, we keep getting more seniors, and they often lack the money to weatherize their homes or upgrade to more efficient appliances. The logical solution is to build more medium-density senior housing and get them out of these single family homes, but not everyone wants to live in a condo and a lot of people are emotionally attached to their homes. If you try and make them, they'll vote you out of office. So basically, we're all fuqor'd because of it.

So the only alternative is to convert the pensioners into heating bricks that can be fed into coal-fired turbines. Soylent Green Energy, anyone?
 
2011-11-12 05:09:31 PM
david_gaithersburg: Those are coal plants.

That's what the government wants you to think.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-11-12 05:09:32 PM
When fully implemented means is that you and your neighbor's A/Cs alternate being on, or your A/C and refrigerator don't come on at the same time.

Adjusting timing of individual house loads should not matter because they even out over a town of 10,000 people. Adjusting duty cycle is more important.
 
2011-11-12 05:11:00 PM
There are uses for smartgrid technology, but you need the integrated appliances, furnace, water heater, AC, etc.

I also am concerned about the ability to remotely shut off a residences power. This has life safety implications that make me uncomfortable.

Besides, ultimately it simply means paying more for our power, whilst using less of it.

And back in the 1950's Nuclear power was going to give us electricity "Too Cheap to Meter!" [TM].

No shiat, look it up.
 
2011-11-12 05:12:23 PM
chimp_ninja: 1) The simplest benefit to even a rudimentary smart grid: The power company will instantly know which customers are without power, and where the breaks occurred. Link that to some basic software that communicates with the trucks in the field, and you're adding a lot of uptime. This is good for customers (shorter outages) and power companies (customer satisfaction, plus you use 0 billable kW-hr during an outage).

My cable and phone company (non-critical infrastructure) has this ability, and can even remotely reboot my cable box, run tests without coming to my home, etc. In the meantime, after a storm, I routinely see guys from the power company (critical infrastructure) driving around in trucks and visually inspecting the lines, hoping to see what the problem is.

2) The CEO in the article is also probably right that America can save more electricity with insulation, caulking guns, outlet gaskets, expanding foam, etc. (There's still about seven weeks left in the year if you've been procrastinating on this but would want the limited tax credit on purchasing materials for this.) Still, it's not like you can't try to do both.


Plus, more to the point, power companies can install smart meters. They can't caulk up your house and install insulation. You work within your domain, and you *suggest* people outside your domain do whatever is probably best.
 
2011-11-12 05:12:24 PM
stevarooni: david_gaithersburg: What was that about conspiracies? (crickets)

Look, the police never abuse this kind of thing. And if they're investigating you, you're not innocent. It might be what they're specifically looking for, but you've doubtless done something bad, or they wouldn't suspect you at all! Warrantless search and seizure is just good police procedure.


My sarcasm meter it pegged all the way up and then broke.
/I think you owe me a new one ; )
 
2011-11-12 05:12:35 PM
Turn my appliances on and off? How does that even work?

Around here (Ontario) "smart meters" just keep track of when you use power so you can be billed at a differential rate at low and peak hours. Very non-intrusive, and they give you a fridge magnet letting you know when it's cheapest to run your AC/dryer/oven etc. Wanna dry clothes at 2 pm? Go ahead, but it'll cost you twice as much.
 
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