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(MSNBC)   Your honor, I'd like to call my next witness: the defendant's 2011 Toyota Prius   (openchannel.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 39
    More: Interesting, Prius, chain of custody, CSC, traffic collision, crime lab, digital evidence, criminal defense lawyer, state crime  
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8999 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Nov 2011 at 8:46 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2011-11-11 08:19:45 AM
Beep.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-11-11 08:23:58 AM
The increasing use of digital evidence has spawned a new legal specialty - e-discovery - and has added layers of complexity that didn't exist when cases were won or lost on paper documents. In some cases - particularly those involving corporations - the amount of digital data that must be retrieved and sorted through prior to trial is immense.

This is why in some big corporations the mail system will automatically delete your mail after a few weeks or months. If it's not on the servers the lawyers don't have to wade through the billion old messages and don't have to explain to a jury what you really meant when you said you wanted to destroy the competition. (In my training on evading anti-trust laws "destroy" was called out as a word we should not put in writing.)
 
2011-11-11 08:51:36 AM
Dunno about the article but the video was Farkworthy all by itself.
 
2011-11-11 08:55:26 AM
It wouldn't surprise me that if some point in the future, evidence recorded by the equipment of the accused were barred from criminal trials, due to the whole thing against self incrimination. Taken to the next technological level, imagine if your clothes had all kinds of hidden sensors in them which you had no control over and maybe didn't even know about. So instead of even giving you a fair trial, they just pull the data from your clothes and show you committing what ever crime they were asking about. They could just save that time by inventing and deploying a mind reading device.
 
2011-11-11 08:56:34 AM
Even now, however, such information could be cross-checked with information from devices like cellphones and GPS units to build what could be an air-tight court case.

I hate that metaphor. You know what is actually air-tight? My sphincter. Thus, GPS data can build a sphinticious court case.

Court rooms are not air-tight and shouldn't be.

What was wrong with strong or guaranteed winning. It's just easier not to think and use an out-of-place metaphor.

/i'm having a bad day, so i thought i'd share
//i got me three beers and a fistful of downs and i'm gonna get ripped so fark you clowns
 
2011-11-11 08:58:37 AM
" So there's a lot of sort of groping around - not quite the blind leading the blind, but folks wrestling with "memearchive.net
 
2011-11-11 08:59:05 AM

ZAZ: This is why in some big corporations the mail system will automatically delete your mail after a few weeks or months.


Of course, there are regulatory situations that prevent this. Specifically in financial services.

At one of the brokers I used to work for there was an unwritten code: Voice Mail is better than Email; Phone Conversation is better than Voice Mail; In Person is better than Phone; Silence is better than Talking. The theory was that the less audit trail, the better in order to build plausible deniability on just about anything.

Conversely, we wanted the customer to put *everything* in writing.
 
2011-11-11 08:59:20 AM
Your honour, it has come to my attention that my automobile consists of a series of tubes...
 
2011-11-11 08:59:28 AM
media-1.web.britannica.com
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-11-11 09:01:03 AM
Hris

The law is clear that anything you make can be used against you. Politicians have no motive to reduce the number of convictions by excluding recordings made by the defendant. If the law changes the change will have to come from popular demand. The best we can hope for from the system left alone is a rule requiring a warrant before police can seize EDR data.
 
2011-11-11 09:01:14 AM
"State crime labs are adding high-tech pieces, but if you think it's hard to examine urine and blood samples, try working through a zip drive, a hard drive or an iPhone," said Findling, the defense attorney.

Really? Zip Drive?
 
2011-11-11 09:03:12 AM
unfauglith.files.wordpress.com

The Prius has been known to lie on its mileage!.
 
2011-11-11 09:04:02 AM
Which is why there is a growing market for "mechanics" who work on the side "modifying" vehicle EDRs, or removing them completely.

"Sorry your honor, my client's EDR seems not to have been functioning properly at the time in question. All the data retrieved from it is corrupt and unreadable."

"Sorry your honor, the EDR had been removed from my client's vehicle, and since he bought it used there is no way to determine when it was removed or by whom. So no data for you. Not yours."
 
2011-11-11 09:06:35 AM

Rustico: At one of the brokers I used to work for there was an unwritten code: Voice Mail is better than Email; Phone Conversation is better than Voice Mail; In Person is better than Phone; Silence is better than Talking. The theory was that the less audit trail, the better in order to build plausible deniability on just about anything.


Works for some.

www.dvd.net.au
 
2011-11-11 09:10:48 AM

Tax Boy: [media-1.web.britannica.com image 550x367]


ANd we're done.
 
2011-11-11 09:14:46 AM
"Unless we change the rules of evidence to require a higher level of reliability, you have this built in problem where people say, 'It comes out of the computer, therefore it must be reliable,'" he said.

I think that Dick Feller (^) might have something to say about that.

/nine thousand dollars
 
2011-11-11 09:28:37 AM
Seen running to the court house. No one expects them after all.....


www.busesonscreen.net

/deaf end ant
 
2011-11-11 09:36:40 AM
media.tumblr.com
 
2011-11-11 09:42:10 AM
Yeah, this stuff can be a little freaky. Of course I'd be fine with it if I could just decide to pull the recording module out if I wanted to.
 
2011-11-11 09:44:44 AM

Hrist: It wouldn't surprise me that if some point in the future, evidence recorded by the equipment of the accused were barred from criminal trials, due to the whole thing against self incrimination.


The prison industry would cry.
 
2011-11-11 09:55:39 AM
Your Honor, the computer clearly shows the defendant was fapping.
 
2011-11-11 10:00:03 AM

CygnusDarius: [unfauglith.files.wordpress.com image 550x404]

The Prius has been known to lie on its mileage!.


t3.gstatic.com

t1.gstatic.com

/not really directed at you
//just bored...
 
2011-11-11 10:03:54 AM

The Irresponsible Captain: Yeah, this stuff can be a little freaky. Of course I'd be fine with it if I could just decide to pull the recording module out if I wanted to.


You can't. On Fords, at least, the ECM (engine computer) relies on the EDR being there to function, and even were it to start and run without it, the EDR handles the airbags. It's not a stand alone component.
 
2011-11-11 10:29:37 AM
My car pleads the fifth.

carphotos.cardomain.com

/ hot, like the car's not
 
2011-11-11 10:42:16 AM
WTF did the video have to do with the article?
 
2011-11-11 11:15:39 AM

Beeblebrox: WTF did the video have to do with the article?


Looks like someone is getting ready to mount the Chewbacca defense on a car crash.
 
2011-11-11 11:17:07 AM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: My car pleads the fifth.

[carphotos.cardomain.com image 250x188]

/ hot, like the car's not


Nice. Mine's a 76 with overdrive.
 
2011-11-11 11:23:27 AM

Hrist: It wouldn't surprise me that if some point in the future, evidence recorded by the equipment of the accused were barred from criminal trials, due to the whole thing against self incrimination. Taken to the next technological level, imagine if your clothes had all kinds of hidden sensors in them which you had no control over and maybe didn't even know about. So instead of even giving you a fair trial, they just pull the data from your clothes and show you committing what ever crime they were asking about. They could just save that time by inventing and deploying a mind reading device.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-11-11 11:39:55 AM
I just have to compare this to the insurance discounts that they give for allowing them to plug into this thing. Invasion of privacy. Not without a warrant - like they have to have w/cellphones in some places.

Looking more and more like its time to restore a great American classic.
 
2011-11-11 11:41:27 AM

DigitalCoffee: Beeblebrox: WTF did the video have to do with the article?

Looks like someone is getting ready to mount the Chewbacca defense on a car crash.


About what, though? It starts off talking about some teenage girl then goes into some Mormon poker player and a double homicide.
 
2011-11-11 11:46:40 AM
I just read a commentary on use of cell phone data here in Missouri. The Prosecutor gave a lecture and said that because an officer can search your person and car, they could also search your phone (it's on you). He admitted that this area of the law is not settled, so recommended that the officers err on the side of getting all the information they can. I guess law enforcement is taking the approach it's better to do something and wait to be told "stop", rather than get permission first.

I hope the GPS case before the SCOTUS confirms that 4th amendment rights still exist - even in this digital age. However, I am not betting on it. If you want privacy in this age, you're going to have to work at it (and then be prepared to justify your desire for privacy).
 
2011-11-11 12:10:05 PM
Remember the episode of Star Trek where Capt. Kirk was accused of murder?
The star witness was the Enterprise's computer.

If I get into an accident, I want them to put my Suburban on the stand if they want to use the "black box" against me.
 
2011-11-11 12:28:17 PM

Beeblebrox: DigitalCoffee: Beeblebrox: WTF did the video have to do with the article?

Looks like someone is getting ready to mount the Chewbacca defense on a car crash.

About what, though? It starts off talking about some teenage girl then goes into some Mormon poker player and a double homicide.


But that's the whole point! It Does Not Make Sense!

/look at the monkey
//look at the silly monkey
 
2011-11-11 01:13:08 PM

KarmaSpork: I just have to compare this to the insurance discounts that they give for allowing them to plug into this thing. Invasion of privacy. Not without a warrant - like they have to have w/cellphones in some places.

Looking more and more like its time to restore a great American classic.


Huh, how's the insurance deal an invasion of privacy unless they make it a mandatory term for insuring you in the first place? As long as it's only for a discount that you don't have to take them up on, I fail to see a problem on that one.
 
2011-11-11 01:15:24 PM
it's been done;
Link (new window)
 
2011-11-11 01:59:34 PM

FlyingJ: it's been done;
Link (new window)


Wow. Another reason to forget about GM, if you still needed one.

Nice to know that Hummer drivers are being monitored, though.
 
2011-11-11 04:49:02 PM
I'm waiting for the push from police for the IDR data to be wirelessly transmitted to the patrol car on EVERY stop that the police make

"Do you know how fast you were going, sir?"

"Nope"

"Your car does, and it's just incriminated you..."

Actually....
/goes to the patent office...
 
2011-11-11 04:50:27 PM

Roy_G_Biv: Nice to know that Hummer drivers are being monitored, though.


corvette drivers too. for several years now.
 
2011-11-12 07:23:19 AM

NormallyTechnos: The Irresponsible Captain: Yeah, this stuff can be a little freaky. Of course I'd be fine with it if I could just decide to pull the recording module out if I wanted to.

You can't. On Fords, at least, the ECM (engine computer) relies on the EDR being there to function, and even were it to start and run without it, the EDR handles the airbags. It's not a stand alone component.


But this doesn't automatically mean that some sensors can't be compromised.....and be the basis for reasonable doubt. As was stated in an earlier post, the presumption of the absolute veracity of data recorded this way just isn't there. As time goes on, a track record of investigations will establish this uncertainty. This will relegate information from an EDR to another element in a circumstantial case, but not a "smoking microprocessor."
 
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