Ugly story. On the plus side, the rare whoopsie trifecta is now in play.

Resuscitation is an extremely brutal, violent act. Everyone who wants it done should have to witness it before they decide if they want it.

jtown: Britney Spear's Speculum: The frantic husband of Immacolata Lacovara, 74, watched in horror as nurses stood by refusing to help.

That wouldn't happen in the US. Family can demand physicians intervene even if the patient has a DNR.

Skeptical cat is skeptical about your claim. Non-Chevy citation required.

I suspect that would only be the case if a family member has medical power of attorney and the patient is incapable of making medical decisions.

No legal power of attorney is required - if someone is incapable of making their own decisions, the authority rolls to the next of kin. POA is only really pertinent if you want to give the authority to someone other than your next of kin.

We are SO non-"death panel" in the US, as soon as you lose the ability to make your own decisions, someone else can override every limitation you've put on your own health care. If my patient is DNR, and has an arrest, and then her husband says "Do everything," we're doing everything.

I don't have a citation in my back pocket, but I work in ICU, and this issue comes up more than you might think - probably on a weekly basis at average.

YELLOL: This is the future of medicine in the USA if Obamacare is not repealed.

Others will decide your fate for you. Sometimes it will work out well, other times like this story, and every time you have rested your fate in the hands of government workers who are already infamous for their lack of compassion(think IRS, Post Office, DMV, etc).

They won't call it "death panels" but it will have a kinder sounding name like "benefits administration". They will decide if you qualify for treatments or whether you are the best use of limited resources... i.e., you need a new hip joint but you are 70 with a heart condition(if you are lucky you will get to this point) but the benefits administration manager will decide to put you on a 5 year waiting list and send you home in a wheelchair with some Hydrocodone(not the oxy you had hoped for) instead of giving you the new hip.

The Americanized NHS should be much more LULZY

Do you honestly believe that there haven't been some horrendous errors in U.S. hospitals that ended up with the patient dead or maimed? And these occurred long before "Obamacare" was even thought of.

Pull your f**king head out of your ass and pay attention. This has zero to do with socialized medicine.

Well, she WAS 74...Socialized Medicine just doesn't want people to live that long.

Berthie_Mapes"Pull your f**king head out of your ass and pay attention. This has zero to do with socialized medicine."

You need to read the article, Sparky. Your stupid is showing.

"Do you honestly believe that there haven't been some horrendous errors in U.S. hospitals that ended up with the patient dead or maimed? And these occurred long before "Obamacare" was even thought of.

Pull your f**king head out of your ass and pay attention. This has zero to do with socialized medicine."

so This derp.

FIFY

/yeah mistakes happen int he U.S.
//not nearly at the rate of any country with socialized medicine
///the lawsuits kinda keep that in check.

LoneWolf343: cretinbob: Resuscitation is an extremely brutal, violent act. Everyone who wants it done should have to witness it before they decide if they want it.

You tend to have a different perspective when you are the one dying.

If you change your mind and can verbalize it, either way, fine. Just be aware resuscitation will leave you with broken and cracked ribs, a tube shoved down your throat, several large needle holes and possible some serious electrical shocks may be involved. 95% of the time you will still be dead on the floor. of the 5% who are resuscitated, something like 99% of them will die within a few days or not have a viable life (i.e. you will be a rutabaga)

CSB time.
Got called to a residence for a 90+ year old man, general illness. He lived with his daughter and son in law. It was an alpha call so we just brought the airway bag in. They guy was very pleasant, had no particular complaint. He just said he was old and was ready to go to the hospital. VS were stable, no problem we'll give you a ride. He's loaded on the cot and we head out the door.
So we get to the door and I hear the daughter yelling at the husband to wake up. I had a BLS provider and a driver, so I left them with the patient and went back to see what was going on, because it didn't sound good.
The son in law was sitting in chair, with his head back and was having agonal, or ineffective respiration. Reached down, no radial pulse, checked and he had no carotid pulse either. Immediately started chest compressions while I called for the rest of the crew to get the LifePak 12, my ALS kit and call for a second ambulance to a full arrest.
The did not hesitate and within 30 seconds I had the pads on him and he was showing a vfib. I didn't bother placing it in manual mode, I just charged and defibrillated him and continued CPR, just like they teach you in that class most people grumble about taking. Dropped him to the floor and continued to work him up. I got my IV started when he sat bolt upright and asked what the hell we were doing to him. Total down time was less than 5 minutes. He went on to have a pacemaker and automatic defibrillator implanted. He spent several months in the hospital recovering, which he did.
Had the father not decided at that time that he needed to go to the hospital, and he had the full arrest without us being there, that's to say we got called there for that , he would not have been successfully resuscitated. We would have gone through every step and made every attempt, but the window of opportunity is so narrow, the bigger question here isn't whether her paperwork got farked up or not, but would it have even made a difference. I have a lot more stories that prove it likely wouldn't, even in a hospital setting.

While I was writing the above story, which is absolutely true, I just realized I never followed up with the father beyond seeing him to the ambulance and having the second crew transport him.

Our attitudes about dying need to change. Even if you are a Christian, isn't dying supposed to be good, because you get your reward and go to heaven?

I don't see how this sort of thing could happen at a US hospital. I went in for a minor, routine surgical procedure, but part of the check in process was "Do you have a living will? Does anyone have a power of attorney? Do you want to be resuscitated?' And a dozen similar questions that were recorded on my patient file in the computer. That is all attached to my wristband so I don't see there being any sort of confusion unless my wristband is swapped with someone.

gadian: I don't see how this sort of thing could happen at a US hospital. I went in for a minor, routine surgical procedure, but part of the check in process was "Do you have a living will? Does anyone have a power of attorney? Do you want to be resuscitated?'

This

After reading the article I find it to be lacking a shiatload of details and it seems to be written as a piece just to incite outrage. Oh, wait...it's the Sun.

As for the statement "My beautiful mother was treated with no dignity or respect. Instead she was treated like a slab of meat." , the statement just before that "They stood back and watched my mother die in the arms of my helpless father." Shows that they did let her die with dignity. So many people in this world die cold and alone. To die in the arms of a loved one is a beautiful thing. I'm sorry for your loss, and I know that families always have a different perspective on things, especially when they are looking to sue or blame someone. Looking at her picture, she was lucky to have lived to 74. I don't expect to live past 65 myself.

As for the rest of the story regarding neglect, every one who is found to have actually neglected a patient should be kicked in the balls or coont repeatedly....by a large horse.

The Envoy: Not only that, but to attain the lofty position of 36th, the US spends the 2nd highest amount in the world on healtchare as a percentage of GDP

And what is the profit margin? Because that's where the cost is. Then there is the fact that hospitals, who need to make a profit (yes, there are still non-profit hospitals around somewhere I'm sure), just like the insurance companies, pass the cost of the non-insured patients on to the insured patients. The suture kit that cost you $250 was only worth $25, but the other 9 patients couldn't pay for it.
I've always believed in socialised medicine. (insert hipster Ariel here) Yes, there is fraud and waste in Medicare and Medicaid. There is fraud and waste in private insurance as well. There are laws against it. Enforce them.

The Envoy: G-Rot: "Do you honestly believe that there haven't been some horrendous errors in U.S. hospitals that ended up with the patient dead or maimed? And these occurred long before "Obamacare" was even thought of.

Pull your f**king head out of your ass and pay attention. This has zero to do with socialized medicine."

so This derp.

FIFY

/yeah mistakes happen int he U.S.
//not nearly at the rate of any country with socialized medicine
///the lawsuits kinda keep that in check.

Well, someone's stupid is showing but it isn't Bathia Mapes'.

A 2000 Institute of Medicine report estimated that medical errors are estimated to result in about between 44,000 and 98,000 preventable deaths and 1,000,000 excess injuries each year in U.S. hospitals. (new window)
A landmark 1999 study found that every year, some 98,000 hospital deaths are due to medical errors. A follow-up study in 2006 revealed that medication errors alone harm at least 1.5 million patients annually. (new window)

Also, the WHO's highest ranked countries have socialised healthcare. USA = 36th, UK = 17th, 1st = France. The French system is socialised in case you missed that.
WHO rankings (new window)

Not only that, but to attain the lofty position of 36th, the US spends the 2nd highest amount in the world on healtchare as a percentage of GDP. As an FYI, France =10th on the lis and the UK = 41st. So it's far cheaper and much better ranked. Hmmmm, interesting.
Expenditure on healthcare as % of GDP (new window)

The Envoy

Cool story, bro...Pointless, but cool...or not. Had nothing to do with what I said. Oh and your story?

Yeah...WHO's rankings have been found to be flawed Nice try though...or not...

Can't link the story because Fark claim the source puts up a paywall...or whatever... so I'll quote

"During the health-care debate, one damning statistic keeps popping up in newspaper columns and letters, on cable television and in politicians' statements: The U.S. ranks 37th in the world in health care.

The trouble is, the ranking is dated and flawed, and has contributed to misconceptions about the quality of the U.S. medical system.

Among all the numbers bandied about in the health-care debate, this ranking stands out as particularly misleading. It is based on a report released nearly a decade ago by the World Health Organization and relies on statistics that are even older and incomplete.

Few people who cite the ranking are aware that some public-health officials were skeptical of the report from the outset. The ranking was faulted because it judges health-care systems for problems -- cultural, behavioral, economic -- that aren't controlled by health care.

"It's a very notorious ranking," says Mark Pearson, head of health for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the 30-member, Paris-based organization of the world's largest economies. "Health analysts don't like to talk about it in polite company. It's one of those things that we wish would go away."

More recent efforts to rank national health systems have been inconclusive. On measures such as child mortality and life expectancy, the U.S. has slipped since the 2000 rankings. But some researchers say that factors beyond the control of the health-care system are to blame, such as dietary habits. Studies that have attempted to exclude these factors from the equation don't agree on whether the U.S. system looks better or worse.

The WHO ranking was ambitious in its scope, grading each nation's health care on five factors. Two of these were relatively uncontroversial: health level, which is roughly the average healthy lifespan of a nation's residents; and responsiveness, which is a sort of customer-service rating encompassing factors such as the system's speed, choice and quality of amenities. The other three measure inequality in health-care outcomes; responsiveness; and individual spending.

These last three measures struck some analysts as problematic, because a country with unhealthy people could rank above a healthier one where there was a bigger gap between healthy and unhealthy people. It is certainly possible that spreading health care as evenly as possible makes a society healthier, but the rankings struck some health-care researchers as assuming that, rather than demonstrating it.

An even bigger problem was shared by all five of these factors: The underlying data about each nation generally weren't available. So WHO researchers calculated the relationship between those factors and other, available numbers, such as literacy rates and income inequality. Such measures, they argued, were linked closely to health in those countries where fuller health data were available. Even though there was no way to be sure that link held in other countries, they used these literacy and income data to estimate health performance.

Philip Musgrove, the editor-in-chief of the WHO report that accompanied the rankings, calls the figures that resulted from this step "so many made-up numbers," and the result a "nonsense ranking." Dr. Musgrove, an economist who is now deputy editor of the journal Health Affairs, says he was hired to edit the report's text but didn't fully understand the methodology until after the report was released. After he left the WHO, he wrote an article in 2003 for the medical journal Lancet criticizing the rankings as "meaningless."