The OS scene is just like the dating scene; get popular, get viruses.

Poor reporting is poor.

Miller's app that was uploaded stored memory in a specifically-designated area of memory reserved for mobile Safari that allows unsigned code to run (as part of the Nitro JS engine). Hence this is a proof of concept attack and no user data was transferred..apparently the only copy of the app that is coded to transfer data is his own copy that was not uploaded. Miller notified Apple about the exploit and also went public on twitter to alert users to the possibility of an attack using this vector. In return Apple suspended his developer account for a year.

Apparently Apple is pissed that he uploaded an app that could've exploited the vulnerability without telling them. According to Miller it was an experiment to prove that the app verification process at Apple isn't foolproof either.


Better article @ ArsTechnica (new window)

tricycleracer: The OS scene is just like the dating scene; get popular, get viruses.

Not according to UNIX and FOSS advocates... even though iOS (based on *nix) and Android (based on Linux) seem to get the majority of security exploits in the mobile space.

Mikey1969: Apple products are no more immune than PCs

According to pwn to own, they're actually less secure. Drastically so. Macs are always the first ones pwnd every year.

This is why I prefer Android to iOS.

iOS is like someone sending a glass aquarium by post. They wrap it up really, really well in foam and cardboard to make sure it doesn't break. Works most of the time, but occassionally, the wrapping isn't good enough.

Android is like putting a delivery sticker on the aquarium. Everyone can see it's glass and treat it accordingly.

/human validation of apps just doesn't sound reliable.

Apple has an actual human look over and approve every app. Nevertheless, there are always ways to cheat the system...

quick, the mods are asleep

Mikey1969: downstairs: Not believing this story at all. Apple products are immune from malware and viruses. 100% immune.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about, they are 4000% immune at least. Maybe more, itis impossible to track jst how immune they are, because we haven't developed the inter-dimensional math needed.


Fact: If you are using an Apple product, YOU will not catch any kind of viral infection either. Their awesome immunity to virii extend to the users... Apple products are so cool, they can even banish Demons, which will keep you from getting possessed, and it sends Zombies back to the grave. It's the reason that none of the people in The Walking Dead carried iPhones when the Zombiepocalypse happened, it would have been a glaring plot hole.

//Sarcasm generator off

Apple products are no more immune than PCs, people just don't write them as much, but the Apple FanBois refuse to listen, just as you implied... ;-)

I understand your points, but when it comes down to it, but it's really like saying that a house in a nice neighborhood isn't any better than a house in a dangerous neighborhood, it's just that criminals reside in the dangerous neighborhood.

I despise Apple, but isn't "nobody bothers to write viruses for it" just as good as "it's not susceptible to viruses?" Sure, long-term that will change, and hopefully Apple will stay on top of it, but if you're buying a computer this afternoon, the lower risk of virus infection is a reasonable decision point.

/if you want a fisher price "i can use a computer, too!" toy.

Marine1: tricycleracer: The OS scene is just like the dating scene; get popular, get viruses.

Not according to UNIX and FOSS advocates... even though iOS (based on *nix) and Android (based on Linux) seem to get the majority of security exploits in the mobile space.

How many of those exploits are in the kernel? How many of those exploits are in code that's actually open to public review and contribution?

/Half rhetorical, half serious

Ghastly: Well maybe I WANT to send all my personal data to anyone.

You sound like an iFan making excuses.

The surprising part to me is not that Apple accidentally approved a malicious app, but that Apple intentionally approved an app that purported to be a stock ticker.

iOS already has a 'Stocks' app, that I have no need for and wish I could remove, but Apple themselves created it so I can't.

/without jailbreaking.

dustlesswalnut: I understand your points, but when it comes down to it, but it's really like saying that a house in a nice neighborhood isn't any better than a house in a dangerous neighborhood, it's just that criminals reside in the dangerous neighborhood.

The difference is that if you live in a dangerous neighborhood, you're more likely to be careful at making sure your doors are locked, whether you're home or not or awake or sleeping. If you live in a nice neighborhood, your door might be unlocked, or often even open if you have a screen door. The problem is when the Apple product neighborhood becomes a bad neighborhood, are the residents going to know how to take proper action to secure their computers and devices?

Mikey1969: downstairs: Not believing this story at all. Apple products are immune from malware and viruses. 100% immune.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about, they are 4000% immune at least. Maybe more, itis impossible to track jst how immune they are, because we haven't developed the inter-dimensional math needed.


Fact: If you are using an Apple product, YOU will not catch any kind of viral infection either. Their awesome immunity to virii extend to the users... Apple products are so cool, they can even banish Demons, which will keep you from getting possessed, and it sends Zombies back to the grave. It's the reason that none of the people in The Walking Dead carried iPhones when the Zombiepocalypse happened, it would have been a glaring plot hole.

//Sarcasm generator off

Apple products are no more immune than PCs, people just don't write them as much, but the Apple FanBois refuse to listen, just as you implied... ;-)

The same could be same for Linux and it's fans.

JPINFV: dustlesswalnut: I understand your points, but when it comes down to it, but it's really like saying that a house in a nice neighborhood isn't any better than a house in a dangerous neighborhood, it's just that criminals reside in the dangerous neighborhood.

The difference is that if you live in a dangerous neighborhood, you're more likely to be careful at making sure your doors are locked, whether you're home or not or awake or sleeping. If you live in a nice neighborhood, your door might be unlocked, or often even open if you have a screen door. The problem is when the Apple product neighborhood becomes a bad neighborhood, are the residents going to know how to take proper action to secure their computers and devices?

As I said in my previous comment, I understand the long-term implications of people thinking that Apple is immune, but as it stands, if you are buying a computer today, the fact that Apple devices have been attacked at a lower rate in the past is a selling point.

Marine1:
Not according to UNIX and FOSS advocates... even though iOS (based on *nix) and Android (based on Linux) seem to get the majority of security exploits in the mobile space.

It's the type of malware which often leads to arguments, 'virus' has become shorthand for a whole bunch of different infection vectors... some of which don't self replicate and I personally wouldn't term them a 'virus' but whatever.

It is exceptionally unlikely that a *NIX derived OS would be susceptible to a drive-by remote privilege escalation (less likely on Windows as well since MS started playing their A game) that granted the attacker root access (not saying they don't exist or that such a thing is impossible just unlikely to find one in the wild). It's more likely such a thing would nest in the users home area and infest anything they had write permission to.

In *NIX land its more more common to find someone booting in the backdoor of server services (apache, php, etc) and gets complete, usually hidden, control of the machine that way.

Different OS's tend to be vulnerable in different ways.

I think the mobile device space is going to see a hell of a lot more people poking at it though and I'm not convinced their developers have been as focused on OS level security as they should of been. Especially these days as it's financially motivated rather than just playing for the infected machines highscore board. Most people keep some financial details on their phone, more so with this Near Field Payment stuff coming in and if you can get on someones smartphone you'll pretty much have all their money.

Mikey1969: I just throw Kaspersky on my PC, and I've still saved money over buying a Mac. :-)

Yes, but you know what you're doing, and I never said that it was the only decision/selling point, just that it was one of them.

I've never owned a Mac and never intend to. The only money I've ever given Apple was for a 10 gig iPod back in 2002. I'm not a fanboy, I'm just saying that the whole "yeah but Apple really IS susceptible!" argument is stupid.

But that's apple approved theft of your information, which at least makes it fashionable and hip to be a victim of it. Your mother having her credit card numbers stripped out of IE6 on windows XP, now that would just be sad.

at least it didn't have any titties in it!

bemis23: Apparently Apple is pissed that he uploaded an app that could've exploited the vulnerability without telling them. According to Miller it was an experiment to prove that the app verification process at Apple isn't foolproof either.

I don't think anyone expects it to be.

Just having a review process makes walled garden software a thousand fold safer for the end user than having them go it alone. Too strict and you kill innovation, not enough and the process becomes a joke.

That said tho, what was the point of the experiment?

If you write for an iProduct then it should be a foregone conclusion that you are on Apples playground. A place where the user base has consented to letting Apple run everything behind the scenes, for better or worse.

Did he mean to show that iOS was just as bad as Android?
I'm sure Apple didn't appreciate that, and its a claim they can dismiss easily.
Which still leaves me wondering why this guy threw himself into the gears.
Just for publicity?

Mikey1969: I just can't stand the douche-baggery that comes out of Apple, from their commercials, to their fans, to their stores, it's so think in the air that you can actually taste it when you get within 20 feet of a Mac Fanboi, THAT'S my REAL problem with Apple. That and the claims that their systems are SO superior, when in fact they are just as vulnerable to both crashing and virii as the PC, but their legions of fans refuse to believe this, even as their Mac locks up while reading this webpage and they have to reboot... As my friend here at work put it one day "Boy, for such a bulletproof operating system, I sure do have to download a Hell of a lot of 'Security Fixes'..."

Which is funny because it's really all about sample size and location, I think...

For instance, on this website (not saying you are one of them) the biggest douches are generally the anti-apple hate brigade, from my experience.

IRL, I've never really met any douchey apple fanbois. I don't really go to the apple store or anything or really hang out at starbucks, so maybe that's the problem. Most people I know who own apple products are just normal people who like what they have as much as they like their, I don't know - television.

It's just a thing, you use it. If it's not good for you, you use something else. Generally people who either really love or really hate certain kinds of "things" like phones are the weird ones.

Mikey1969: I own a Mac because work bought one. I also have one for running Adobe products, they DO run better on a Mac, I'll admit. I can drag 20-30 Photoshop files onto the Photoshop icon and sit back, it will open the app, and then each pic. The PC just doesn't handle this as well, dragging onto the icon doesn't work at all(Unless they fixed that in 7), and it gets choked if you try and open that many at once. Also, the iPod really IS the best laid out and organized MP3 player I've used.

They run better on your Mac than they did on any of your PCs. I use Windows 7 and Photoshop, Flash, and Illustrator every day, and have no problems at all. I can highlight 50 .psds and drag them into Photoshop and they all open without issue. Not arguing, just saying that your experience is not the same as mine.

Mikey1969: I just can't stand the douche-baggery that comes out of Apple, from their commercials, to their fans, to their stores, it's so think in the air that you can actually taste it when you get within 20 feet of a Mac Fanboi, THAT'S my REAL problem with Apple. That and the claims that their systems are SO superior, when in fact they are just as vulnerable to both crashing and virii as the PC, but their legions of fans refuse to believe this, even as their Mac locks up while reading this webpage and they have to reboot... As my friend here at work put it one day "Boy, for such a bulletproof operating system, I sure do have to download a Hell of a lot of 'Security Fixes'..."

I can't stand fanboys or their stupid thoughts either, but it's not going to make me discount the fact that very few people write viruses for Macs. They're not less susceptible, but they are attacked less, so if that's the one thing you're basing a computer-buying decision on, Apple wins. It won't last-- as they gain market share, virus creators will want to attack their machines, and the instances of attacks will increase, but that's not today, and it's not next year, and in any case, Apple's regular security updates will probably keep people safe.

dustlesswalnut: Apple's regular security updates will probably keep people safe.

(Just like Windows Update and Microsoft Security Essentials keep me safe now.)

Mikey1969: downstairs: Not believing this story at all. Apple products are immune from malware and viruses. 100% immune.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about, they are 4000% immune at least. Maybe more, itis impossible to track jst how immune they are, because we haven't developed the inter-dimensional math needed.


Fact: If you are using an Apple product, YOU will not catch any kind of viral infection either. Their awesome immunity to virii extend to the users... Apple products are so cool, they can even banish Demons, which will keep you from getting possessed, and it sends Zombies back to the grave. It's the reason that none of the people in The Walking Dead carried iPhones when the Zombiepocalypse happened, it would have been a glaring plot hole.

Plot hole easily fixed if the "zombie-fying" agent is cancer based.

_{/too soon?}

Mikey1969:
I can drag 20-30 Photoshop files onto the Photoshop icon and sit back, it will open the app, and then each pic. The PC just doesn't handle this as well, dragging onto the icon doesn't work at all(Unless they fixed that in 7), and it gets choked if you try and open that many at once.

I just drag and dropped a JPG onto the launch bar shortcut and it opened up the picture just fine (PS7.0, WinXP).

That said, are you sure you're comparing equal-spec'ed computers? You're currently comparing a work computer that was presumably designed to run PhotoShop (and these computers tend to be beefier, regardless of platform) against presumably your home computer (which may have been optimized for gaming or just simple webbrowsing.)

That's one of the things some of the i fanboys I talk to like to do, possibly unknowingly (not saying you are). They compare the instability, slowness, and refinement of a sub $500 Windows (say) laptop to a minimum $1,200 one. If you compare a $500 Windows to $1200 Windows, you'll probably see performance and reliability being blown away.

way south: bemis23: Apparently Apple is pissed that he uploaded an app that could've exploited the vulnerability without telling them. According to Miller it was an experiment to prove that the app verification process at Apple isn't foolproof either.

I don't think anyone expects it to be.

Just having a review process makes walled garden software a thousand fold safer for the end user than having them go it alone. Too strict and you kill innovation, not enough and the process becomes a joke.

That said tho, what was the point of the experiment?

If you write for an iProduct then it should be a foregone conclusion that you are on Apples playground. A place where the user base has consented to letting Apple run everything behind the scenes, for better or worse.

Did he mean to show that iOS was just as bad as Android?
I'm sure Apple didn't appreciate that, and its a claim they can dismiss easily.
Which still leaves me wondering why this guy threw himself into the gears.
Just for publicity?

Im not trying to say whether Apple was right or wrong, just pointing to a more informative article than this TG crap.

Well see with Steve (bless his name) gone there isn't anyone there to make sure these things don't happen. It was to be expected, when you lose a god you are left with mere men.

Mikey1969: Any time I tried that, I would get a message something like: "You cannot drag a file onto an application in the toolbar and open it, you may hold Ctrl while dragging the file, wait for the application to open and then drag your file into the window", or some similar crap. Also, it wouldn't work with multiple files, it would work for 1 file at a time. They may have changed this with SP3, I don't know. I gave up using my PC when I could do it all at work on their computers anyway. Besides, when I was doing graphics work all day, the last thing I wanted was to go home and open up Photoshop and do more stuff that reminded me of work. :-) I haven't used PS, Illustrator, etc in XP for at least 3 years, definitely not since SP3 came out, so maybe they fixed that. It sure would be nice.

As for my PCs at home, they were all home built with fast RAM, good video cards and plenty of drive space, so they were in the same league as the Macs at work, so it wasn't that.

O.o

Sorry but multiple file drag and drop onto the software icon to open them all has been around since ... Windows 3.1 if I remember right? I simply can't remember a time that I've not been able to do that in any version of Windows.

Heck.. why even drag... selecting multiple files and hitting the enter key would kick it in the software (as long as you had the default program selected correctly).

I understand that many can't manage to get comfortable with an OS, but stuff like this only makes me:

Mikey1969: I own a Mac because work bought one. I also have one for running Adobe products, they DO run better on a Mac, I'll admit. I can drag 20-30 Photoshop files onto the Photoshop icon and sit back, it will open the app, and then each pic. The PC just doesn't handle this as well, dragging onto the icon doesn't work at all(Unless they fixed that in 7), and it gets choked if you try and open that many at once

and what exactly are the specs of your Windows machine? Mine handles PS and Painter (a serious RAM hog) simultaneously just fine as well as very large files. Same goes with Zbrush and Maya.

/something about personal anecdotes not being hard proof of jack sh*t

SleepingEye: If you compare a $500 Windows to $1200 Windows, you'll probably see performance and reliability being blown away.

Like you said, it all comes down to build. Business-class pre-built machines are usually fluff-ware free and not bogging down the resources, where as that thing you buy at Best Buy/Walmart/retailer X is pretty much an advertising box chock-full off bloatware and garbage.

Even the top of the line Mac Pro towers are pretty behind the times with current technology. The Xeon-class processors are nice, but they're showing their age. Hell even iMacs are sporting better video cards vs that of the Mac Pro towers.

imfallen_angel: Sorry but multiple file drag and drop onto the software icon to open them all has been around since ... Windows 3.1 if I remember right? I simply can't remember a time that I've not been able to do that in any version of Windows.

I can't do it in 7 or XP. Take two seconds and try it before you post. You cannot drop files on the taskbar.

moothemagiccow: imfallen_angel: Sorry but multiple file drag and drop onto the software icon to open them all has been around since ... Windows 3.1 if I remember right? I simply can't remember a time that I've not been able to do that in any version of Windows.

I can't do it in 7 or XP. Take two seconds and try it before you post. You cannot drop files on the taskbar.

You are correct, though to be fair he said "drop onto the software icon" not "drop onto the software icon in the taskbar."

dustlesswalnut: You are correct, though to be fair he said "drop onto the software icon" not "drop onto the software icon in the taskbar."

And the guy above him said drop onto the taskbar. Which shows he can't read.

moothemagiccow: imfallen_angel: Sorry but multiple file drag and drop onto the software icon to open them all has been around since ... Windows 3.1 if I remember right? I simply can't remember a time that I've not been able to do that in any version of Windows.

I can't do it in 7 or XP. Take two seconds and try it before you post. You cannot drop files on the taskbar.

ahem... dropping on taskbar is Apple approach... which is not what I stated.

and also...

if someone is not capable of simply opening the software, and have an explorer opened, side by side, and simply drag all the images over... it's kinda sad and the person should not consider themselves knowledgeable about computers/software and should stick to pocket calculators and etch-a-sketch.

It's not rocket science, and truly not a valid excuse to think that something doesn't work "right" because you can't be bothered in figuring it out, and so have to whine about it.

There's several approaches to what the guy is complaining about... and he couldn't figure a single one out... oy....

moothemagiccow: dustlesswalnut: You are correct, though to be fair he said "drop onto the software icon" not "drop onto the software icon in the taskbar."

And the guy above him said drop onto the taskbar. Which shows he can't read.

Ah. Neither can I, apparently.

If you have an application open, you can drag items to the taskbar, but you have to hover for X milliseconds, then drop the dragged items on top of the application window. It won't work for your first file of the day, but once you have the application open it does.