Yeah, not only am I broke, but I keep my meager funds in a Credit Union.

ignatiusst: This is serious shiat. The credit default swaps for the banks in the European financial system are hitting record highs, now (it was untenable credit default swaps rates that brought down all the US banks in 2007-8). If Europe collapses, it *will* drag the US (and probably Asia) down with it.

China is already starting to collapse. The shiat blizzard is a-blowin'.

AcneVulgaris: ignatiusst: This is serious shiat. The credit default swaps for the banks in the European financial system are hitting record highs, now (it was untenable credit default swaps rates that brought down all the US banks in 2007-8). If Europe collapses, it *will* drag the US (and probably Asia) down with it.

China is already starting to collapse. The shiat blizzard is a-blowin'.

The whispering winds of shiat are coming

Link (new window)

ignatiusst: The credit default swaps for the banks in the European financial system are hitting record highs

Can we just farking illegalize those things? The entire world has shown it can't handle them properly. How about we make it so you can't sell debt?

So, is it time to move my 401k into cash?

It's a damned good thing Skyrim is arriving Friday!

/electronic morphine

It's not just Greece anymore. Italian debt costs are skyrocketing, the crisis watch level was said to be anything over 6%, and they have shot up well above 7%. It looks like a European banking crisis is going to take our banks down this time. I guess payback is a biatch?

A good number of economists are saying that this crisis will be worse than the 2008 one. And then add the fact that central banks like our fed have no ammo left to fight another deep economic downturn, and we have the recipe for a real disaster.

Me, I plan to deal with it by bitterly blaming Obama. You know, because...um... he's a secret socailst muslin and such as.

Slackfumasta: So, is it time to move my 401k into cash?

Yes, but cash isn't going to be worth anything if it all goes down correct? Do you dump that cash into precious metals, then buy real estate when everything hits bottom?

How did some average folks get rich during the great depression? I don't know the answer, I'm actually curious... I know there were some average families that ended up owning entire towns as the depression ended...

Good. The meltdown has begun. Italy is in a freefall. Greece is screwed. The rest of the PIIGS will be able to pull out of the Euro now. These sovereign countries will be telling the banks to go fark themselves. Lots of haircuts on the way.

Bottom line: the 99% are sick of suffering through austerity measures in order to pay for the gambling debts of private banks. Debts that the banks ran up, not the 99%. Why should we pay the gambling debts that banks ran up? Answer: we have absolutely no obligation to pay their gambling debts. That's the free market.

Banks gambled on taking on higher risk in order to get a higher return, and they gambled wrong, and now they want to go back to the casino and ask for their money back. That's not the way it works.

The euro is done. Stick a fork in it.

that's about as much doom and glomm i've read in awhile

does this mean I should reschedule my christmas vacation plans?

This is a big problem if you have money in Greek or Portuguese banks as those are the only ones likely to drop out of the Euro which will result in everyone yanking money out of those banks before new drachmas and whatever the hell Portugal calls its currency are issued.

So what should I buy once the bottom drops out? I only have a few grand but I want to make it count.

AcneVulgaris: ignatiusst: This is serious shiat. The credit default swaps for the banks in the European financial system are hitting record highs, now (it was untenable credit default swaps rates that brought down all the US banks in 2007-8). If Europe collapses, it *will* drag the US (and probably Asia) down with it.

China is already starting to collapse. The shiat blizzard is a-blowin'.

European sovereign debt crisis
Europe banking crisis
U.S. government debt crisis
U.S. banking crisis
Middle eastern political instability
Major middle eastern war
Major oil disruption
Asian Banking crisis

If one of the above happens, all of the above are likely to happen. I wonder what a modern world wide depression looks like.

/Obama is causing it all

xtragrind: Slackfumasta: So, is it time to move my 401k into cash?

Yes, but cash isn't going to be worth anything if it all goes down correct? Do you dump that cash into precious metals, then buy real estate when everything hits bottom?

How did some average folks get rich during the great depression? I don't know the answer, I'm actually curious... I know there were some average families that ended up owning entire towns as the depression ended...

Selling booze during prohibition?

ignatiusst: This is serious shiat. The credit default swaps for the banks in the European financial system are hitting record highs, now (it was untenable credit default swaps rates that brought down all the US banks in 2007-8). If Europe collapses, it *will* drag the US (and probably Asia) down with it.


Not if Americans stand up and refuse to bail out these private banks that were stupid enough to sell these swaps. They just sold another $40 billion on CDS for European risk as late as last week. They will never learn. Europe is burning down and they are still selling swaps! That's how stupid these banks are. They cannot and should not be saved. That is the free market.

Time to get rid of some dead weight in the banking industry.

Goodfella: Bottom line: the 99% are sick of suffering through austerity measures in order to pay for the gambling debts of private banks. Debts that the banks ran up, not the 99%. Why should we pay the gambling debts that banks ran up? Answer: we have absolutely no obligation to pay their gambling debts. That's the free market.

What kind of farked up view is this? Greece borrowed to cover budget deficits (caused by spending too much/taxing too little). And you are saying that the Greek people shouldn't be subject to austerity (reduced spending and higher taxes) to pay back the debt these governments incurred on their behalf (the voters elected these spendthrift governments, including the 99%)?

the only way that Greece can continue without austerity is to continue to borrow - do you expect investors to lend any more to Greece if the greeks tell them to go fark themselves on the debt already owed?

Debeo Summa Credo: Goodfella: Bottom line: the 99% are sick of suffering through austerity measures in order to pay for the gambling debts of private banks. Debts that the banks ran up, not the 99%. Why should we pay the gambling debts that banks ran up? Answer: we have absolutely no obligation to pay their gambling debts. That's the free market.

What kind of farked up view is this? Greece borrowed to cover budget deficits (caused by spending too much/taxing too little). And you are saying that the Greek people shouldn't be subject to austerity (reduced spending and higher taxes) to pay back the debt these governments incurred on their behalf (the voters elected these spendthrift governments, including the 99%)?

the only way that Greece can continue without austerity is to continue to borrow - do you expect investors to lend any more to Greece if the greeks tell them to go fark themselves on the debt already owed?



Goldman Sachs cooked their books to get them into the Euro. So when Goldman Sachs comes tumbling down like Lehman Brothers I am not going to cry for them.

don't be so naiive, they will get taxpayers to 'bail out' the rich

Goodfella: Not if Americans stand up and refuse to bail out these private banks that were stupid enough to sell these swaps. They just sold another $40 billion on CDS for European risk as late as last week. They will never learn. Europe is burning down and they are still selling swaps! That's how stupid these banks are. They cannot and should not be saved. That is the free market.

Time to get rid of some dead weight in the banking industry.

I agree with your last statement, but It has to be done in an orderly way. Like it or not, our financial system is not only global, but every major institution is so intertwined with every other major institution, that the failure of one major player risks crashing the whole system. This is what almost happened in 2008, and could yet happen. Your local credit union, is as much at risk as BOA. So yes, if we let the guilty fail, they take down the innocent with them.

The only solutions may be to nationalize a few major banks, and then slowly wind them down.

Goodfella: Debeo Summa Credo: Goodfella: Bottom line: the 99% are sick of suffering through austerity measures in order to pay for the gambling debts of private banks. Debts that the banks ran up, not the 99%. Why should we pay the gambling debts that banks ran up? Answer: we have absolutely no obligation to pay their gambling debts. That's the free market.

What kind of farked up view is this? Greece borrowed to cover budget deficits (caused by spending too much/taxing too little). And you are saying that the Greek people shouldn't be subject to austerity (reduced spending and higher taxes) to pay back the debt these governments incurred on their behalf (the voters elected these spendthrift governments, including the 99%)?

the only way that Greece can continue without austerity is to continue to borrow - do you expect investors to lend any more to Greece if the greeks tell them to go fark themselves on the debt already owed?



Goldman Sachs cooked their books to get them into the Euro. So when Goldman Sachs comes tumbling down like Lehman Brothers I am not going to cry for them.

Goldman Sachs didn't put the caps back on my magic markers, and they all dried up!

Seriously, answer my question. Greece has been borrowing to cover the deficit resulting from overspending/undertaxation. Do you really think that the Greeks don't deserve the austerity necessary to put their budget in balance? Should foreign investors be required to subsidize Greek lifestyles forever?

That reads like an economics version of a Rolland Emmerich movie. When does the White House get blown up?

Credit Default Swaps, No Money Down!
Record IPOs for the Day Traders
Overvalued/Undervalued Currencies
Short Sells and Hedge Funds
Surprise Transaction Fee!

Fark you, money managers.
Fark you until you're dead.

/I wish it were illegal to sell mortgages off. Farking bank should be stuck with the decisions they make, instead of sticking it to their customers. I say this because eventually these toxic assets have become publicly owned and Fark them, fark them hard.

BigBooper

It has to be done in an orderly way

Bullshiat. Chaos is good for the economy. It sucks hard in the short term, but fark the short term.

Debeo Summa Credo

Do you really think that the Greeks don't deserve the austerity necessary to put their budget in balance? Should foreign investors be required to subsidize Greek lifestyles forever?

This. Im all in favor of allowing idiotic banks to fail, Im also okay with allowing idiotic countries to fail. Unfortunately, the US might be one.

Im not sure if Greece can be saved. The US is still in a position that dramatic government spending cuts can prevent disaster.

Oh get over yourselves. In 5 years time no one will remember a single goddamn thing that's going on now.

This is only a problem if you have assloads of money

Yes, it was certainly the case in the 2008 banking crisis that the only people hurt were ones with lots of money, like all those millionaires occupying Obamavilles throughout the country.

Lost Thought 00: Oh get over yourselves. In 5 years time no one will remember a single goddamn thing that's going on now.

I will remember. I don't matter, but I'll remember.

Lost Thought 00: Oh get over yourselves. In 5 years time no one will remember a single goddamn thing that's going on now.

Given that we're having protests in the States about social justice and economic fairness, I think we're headed for an economic paradigm shift. I've been saying it for a few years now: when an economic system like capitalism stops working for the poor people--the 99%--then it soon falls out of favor. If the Republicans didn't block Obama from fixing the issues with stimulus, it could be a great boon to America.

Instead, they played games, and have cut their own legs out from under themselves.

The paradigm shift is going to be nasty. The bright side is that maybe we can understand there are some things--shelter, education, healthcare, Internet--that capitalism can not and should not take care of. The bad thing is that we're entering new territory where this could cause serious problems, all because of the insecurity of the Rich.

Cool? Only a problem if you're rich? WTF?

/This is what the 99% actually believe?

Guntram Shatterhand

If the Republicans didn't block Obama from fixing the issues with stimulus, it could be a great boon to America.

The issue with stimulus is the existence of stimulus. It is a bad idea. Im no fan of the GOP, they are far too supportive of stimulus and spending themselves, but any stimulus they blocked was a good thing.

ignatiusst

we really have to do everything we can to avoid total global economic collapse.

Why? Maybe a reboot is the best solution.

/Hail Eris

Fish in a Barrel: Cool? Only a problem if you're rich? WTF?

/This is what the 99% actually believe?

We either snap the leaches off quick, or they will feed off us and our descendants forever.

For some reason this thread reminds me of a quote:

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H. L. Mencken

ignatiusst

nobody is looking out for *them*

Very true.

and nothing is going to happen that changes *their* situation.

False. They are going to change their own situation, if they so choose.

"Forget the politicians...

The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice ... you don't.

You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They've long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear.

They got you by the balls.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying ... lobbying, to get what they want ... Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don't want ... they don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that ... that doesn't help them. That's against their interests. That's right. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they're getting farked by a system that threw them overboard 30 farkin' years ago. They don't want that.

You know what they want? They want obedient workers ... Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shiattier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they're coming for your Social Security money. They want your farkin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They'll get it ... they'll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this farkin' place. It's a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club.

By the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care.

Good honest hard-working people ... white collar, blue collar it doesn't matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means ... continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don't give a fark about you. They don't give a fark about you ... they don't give a fark about you. They don't care about you at all ... at all ... at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It's called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it ..."

George

xtragrind: Slackfumasta: So, is it time to move my 401k into cash?

Yes, but cash isn't going to be worth anything if it all goes down correct? Do you dump that cash into precious metals, then buy real estate when everything hits bottom?

How did some average folks get rich during the great depression? I don't know the answer, I'm actually curious... I know there were some average families that ended up owning entire towns as the depression ended...

The great depression was a bit different. There was no FDIC insurance provided by the U.S. for failing banks and very few people had access to banks outside their local ones. One day you would have your mortgage, loans and all your savings in the bank then *poof* the bank goes bankrupt. The mortgage and loans go on fire-sale to anyone that can afford it so the bank can pay off it's debts. Any money you had in savings was just gone. So there were people that had money stuffed in mattresses that could buy entire towns when a bank went out of business.

One way to make money off of this, if you are willing to take the risk, is to take money and invest it in European and BRIC businesses after the Greek crash. The risk is, some of the businesses that have good business plans, good people, and would be successful just might not make it through this crisis no matter how much money is pumped into them. The benefit is, you might get stocks worth hundreds in a few years at the cost of dollars today. Start looking at foreign stock exchanges and researching companies if you're serious about investing and have some money to risk:

Athens Exchange
Shanghai