I bought a HP tx2100 about 3 years ago. Touch screen, swivel monitor so it would lay flat like a tablet. As a tablet the touchscreen was ok, but a little chunky by today's standards, as a laptop it was awkward to touch screen instead of touch pad mouse. I can't see much benefit, either.

/I'll take a multi-touch touch pad mouse, though.

Because you need those "sophisticated european douchebag glasses" to use them?

doglover: Nobody worth listening to has used the word paradigm since 1985.

Or "mollycoddle" or "porch". Sorry, trying to generalize nits of language out of existence cause they're "so [insert year here]" just reeks of the sort of back porch intellectual pronouncements that have made Paris Hilton "relevant".

I've been saying for years that touch screens are stupid.

My devices get dirty/greasy enough without having your fingers on them all the time.
I want a real, physical keyboard so I know where my fingers are and get some feedback that I'm typing correctly without looking. A touch-screen keyboard guarantees that I have to look at what I'm pressing.

Unfortunately everyone seems to think that touching screens is "cool" now, so more and more of the devices I support have them.

If you think touchscreens are going away, you're insane.

They might morph into pressing on a projection and not a screen, but the medium has changed and will never come back now. There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore.

It has nothing to do with coolness and everything to do with ease of use and minimization of space.

justtray: If you think touchscreens are going away, you're insane.

They might morph into pressing on a projection and not a screen, but the medium has changed and will never come back now. There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore.

It has nothing to do with coolness and everything to do with ease of use and minimization of space.

You are so totally wrong. There were backlit flat-panel QWERTY keyboards in Babylon 5. That's authoritative.

His jib. I like the cut of it.

I read it in a David Mitchell ranty voice, and it was even more entertaining.

Didn't original computer engineers laugh at the need for a GUI and a mouse as well? Sure a tactile system would be pretty sweet and I'm sure it will get there eventually.

I bet this guy LOVES the telegraph. It fits his little "hammer" analogy.

The next step might be a 3D interface that morphs into the ergonomic shape required for whatever interaction is required. It might go from a flat screen to a raised series of buttons to a knob to a slider, but ultimately interaction will be performed by thought.

justtray: If you think touchscreens are going away, you're insane.

They might morph into pressing on a projection and not a screen, but the medium has changed and will never come back now. There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore.

It has nothing to do with coolness and everything to do with ease of use and minimization of space.

Maybe not, but there is need of some sort of tactile feedback. Apple has patented (new window) something along these lines. Touch typing is next to impossible with a touch screen, look at your keyboard, why do you think it (probably) has a tiny raised bit on the "f" and the "j"?

Only children and computer geeks need to change their grip when opening a jar. Just saying.

I gotta say

I loved the website.

Jubeebee:
I don't know about that. My phone doesn't have a physical keyboard and it kind of sucks to text with. My old phone, even with tiny keys, made texting a lot faster because the tactile feedback let me know what buttons I was touching.


I actually got my current android phone for that exact reason. To quote roughly quote Californication, "I'm an analog guy in a digital world."

Future generations will never know the joy of "tune in Tokyo"

Jubeebee: justtray: If you think touchscreens are going away, you're insane.

They might morph into pressing on a projection and not a screen, but the medium has changed and will never come back now. There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore.

It has nothing to do with coolness and everything to do with ease of use and minimization of space.

I don't know about that. My phone doesn't have a physical keyboard and it kind of sucks to text with. My old phone, even with tiny keys, made texting a lot faster because the tactile feedback let me know what buttons I was touching.

A projection would be worse, because then you wouldn't even have a surface to reference against.

You're right that a touchscreen is the most efficient use of space, but it is not the most efficient input method. Intuitive, yes, but not ideal. However, I can't even imagine what a device that fully used tactile input would look like, so we'll have touchscreens for a long time.

Interestingly enough, at the AT&T store yesterday, another guy about my age was going to go to blackberry because of touchscreen texting. He ended up getting a iphone 4. Not sure all the exact reasons. Just thought it was interesting.

TED had projection touchscreen last year and I think there was a fark article about it just a couple weeks ago. I think it's simply a matter of getting the software tweaked. With things like the writer tool, it can be annoying, but it still functions pretty adequately.Pinko_Commie: justtray: If you think touchscreens are going away, you're insane.

They might morph into pressing on a projection and not a screen, but the medium has changed and will never come back now. There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore.

It has nothing to do with coolness and everything to do with ease of use and minimization of space.

Maybe not, but there is need of some sort of tactile feedback. Apple has patented (new window) something along these lines. Touch typing is next to impossible with a touch screen, look at your keyboard, why do you think it (probably) has a tiny raised bit on the "f" and the "j"?

Yeah I get it. I was thinking more along the lines of mobile devices. It's hard to imagine touch screens in their current iteration being used to write books or other long documents. The small annoyances in texting are heavily amplified in that scenario.

uber humper: I'll take a multi-touch touch pad mouse, though.

Ditto this.

People see with their eyes and manipulate things with their hands. Touching the screen to directly control the images on it is very natural method of input that isn't going away. Especially when we want devices to be more convenient.
...Actually, I think they'll probably ratchet it up with 3d cameras and gesture controls in the near future.

It could also be the solution to the problem of getting your greasy pawprints all over the device ...for you simians that cant be bothered with WASHING YOUR FARKING CHEETO SHOVELS on a regular basis.

I don't think the article is really against touchscreens. In fact, many points he makes support them. People work with their hands, and as you lessen hand-task disconnect, you create a more intuitive interface.

The issue is with the feel of the interface -- the "under glass" problem he mentions. Having some sort of texture acts as a reference for your hands. It's my big issue with the Kinect appraoch. Sure it works well for broad gestures, but that's it.

But that will be difficult if not impossible to ever fully resolve. Different tasks require a different feel.

Now, if they can first fix the fingerprint issue...

way south: CHEETO SHOVELS

I eat Cheetos with these:

justtray: There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore

Is this a troll?

Try using an iphone as an xbox controller. Try writing a book with a touch screen. Try writing code with a touch screen.

What would happen if you replaced every switch and button in a car with a touch screen? (hint: it would get crashy)

I think the motion detection stuff is transitional as well. Holding your limbs out to simulate using a steering wheel is stupid since there's no structure out there to hang your hands on like you do in a real car.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/pranav_mistry_the_thrilling_potentia l_of_sixthsense_technology.html

"Thrilling" is subjective of course.

Now with clickable goodness.

/design fail

Link

I'm so bad at this. :(

Mass effect omni tool, anyone?

waterrockets: justtray: There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore

Is this a troll?

Try using an iphone as an xbox controller. Try writing a book with a touch screen. Try writing code with a touch screen.

What would happen if you replaced every switch and button in a car with a touch screen? (hint: it would get crashy)

I think the motion detection stuff is transitional as well. Holding your limbs out to simulate using a steering wheel is stupid since there's no structure out there to hang your hands on like you do in a real car.

You should probably read the entire thread before making ridiculous assumptions.

Also - dictation software will replace book writing. Motion control will replace controllers. Push to start replaces car keys.

Yes analog media is dying. It's irrefutable.

BurnShrike: I've been saying for years that touch screens are stupid.

My devices get dirty/greasy enough without having your fingers on them all the time.
I want a real, physical keyboard so I know where my fingers are and get some feedback that I'm typing correctly without looking. A touch-screen keyboard guarantees that I have to look at what I'm pressing.

Unfortunately everyone seems to think that touching screens is "cool" now, so more and more of the devices I support have them.

This is why I recently bought a new netbook instead of a tablet. I can't type worth a damn without the tactile feedback inherent in using a physical keyboard. Yes, I know you can plug a keyboard into a tablet, but then, if I have to carry around a separate keyboard anyway, why not just get a netbook?

Touch screens are great for very limited data entry, like a vending kiosk of some sort. If I have to type more than a handful of characters on a touch screen, though, I get really, really annoyed and frustrated. I know when I hit a wrong key with a keyboard, because it just doesn't "feel" right. I lose that ability with a touchscreen.

CitizenjaQ: justtray: If you think touchscreens are going away, you're insane.

They might morph into pressing on a projection and not a screen, but the medium has changed and will never come back now. There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore.

It has nothing to do with coolness and everything to do with ease of use and minimization of space.

You are so totally wrong. There were backlit flat-panel QWERTY keyboards in Babylon 5. That's authoritative.

What a dork! Everyone knows that dr. mccay in the pegasus galaxy has defeated the wraith time and again with a touchscreen tablet. Now THATS authoritative.

Tactile interfaces are a transitional technology too. It's all about the MIND, man. Skip this whole bag of meat noise entirely.

This guy is a grade-A moran. The touch-screen is simply put the best way to maximize visible usable space on a small device. That's because instead of having to put a unique button on the surface of it for every function you can basically virtualize the buttons on the screen and let the user touch them that way.

Yes, it's not as good as a piano, but it's not a piano it's a goddamn phone.

Unless he's claiming that we're close to inventing morphing intelligent plastic that will actually change form and composition to match the task at hand (hint: we're not) then what the hell is he complaining about?

BTW seems like he has a bit of a hand-fetish.

justtray: waterrockets: justtray: There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore

Is this a troll?

Try using an iphone as an xbox controller. Try writing a book with a touch screen. Try writing code with a touch screen.

What would happen if you replaced every switch and button in a car with a touch screen? (hint: it would get crashy)

I think the motion detection stuff is transitional as well. Holding your limbs out to simulate using a steering wheel is stupid since there's no structure out there to hang your hands on like you do in a real car.

You should probably read the entire thread before making ridiculous assumptions.

Meh. Time between reading the thread and clicking "Add Comment" increased by a coworker visit.

Ridiculous assumptions? I'm not the one who said devices don't need buttons any more.

Way to tear down the strawman argument that touchscreens are the natural and final endpoint of interface evolution.

Yes, there is a lot of room for improvement, and yes, all the points about the natural interfaces of hands and tools are valid.

But at this point in time, the status of commercially viable technology is that "pictures under glass" is about the best we can accomplish. So let's deal with that for now, while the eggheads are still working out ways for us to control our computers with a vibrating Rubik's cube or whatever.

bunner: Because you need those "sophisticated european douchebag glasses" to use them?

These are Calvin Kleins and were on sale :(

Does he also explain why he is a former UI designer?

Johannesburg, eh? They forgot to include the part in the video where she gets electronically raped and murdered.

Well, the next step is interacting with holograms. There was an article about this recently from a university experiment(with a Kinect, I believe). That said, we still aren't getting any tactile feedback.

I think the early part of the video with the glasses that have the HUD and the translation application were the best part - also nothing to do with dragging things with your finger.

Glad i'm not the only one who feels this way and can't stand tablets.

I bought an iPad and it turned into an expensive dust collector after about two weeks, as I found I still preferred my laptop for almost every purpose.
I sold it used on eBay a few weeks after that.

poot_rootbeer: But at this point in time, the status of commercially viable technology is that "pictures under glass" is about the best we can accomplish.

The problem is that for most tasks, it's measurably inferior to what came before it, so how can it actually be "the best we can accomplish"?

Nontentional: Mass effect omni tool, anyone?

From the Mass Effect codex:

Computers: Haptic Adaptive Interface Edit

Advances in computing have done away with traditional input devices like keyboards. Instead, modern input peripherals are usually holographically displayed in front of the user at a height and angle for ergonomic ease. Machines that use this interface detect a user through a microframe chip in the user's glove that "keys in" to the computer. Once a user is accepted, motion accelerometers in the user's gloves match his hands' location with that of a proportionate but smaller "mirror" set of controls inside the computer itself. As the user presses against the holographic field, force-feedback in the glove kicks in, giving a slight resistance. A person can feel his way through using a touch-screen that isn't actually there. A simple toggle switch on the back of the hands allows the glove to be turned off when not in use.

Haptic interfaces have become so common that some individuals undergo cybernetic enhancement surgery to have the accelerometers implanted in their fingertips. "Going bareskin" is the sign of a committed computer user who no longer has to fuss with putting on gloves or cleaning them with alcohol wipes to get rid of the clammy-hand smell.

dittybopper: The problem is that for most tasks, it's measurably inferior to what came before it, so how can it actually be "the best we can accomplish"?

It's a tradeoff. There's always a tradeoff.

Take the little piano app for iPad that's used as an example. Is the interaction quality inferior to that of even a $100 Casio with moving plastic keys? Absolutely. But the sound quality, and the portability, are far better with the iPad.

And then there's flexibility, which adds value as well. A touchscreen device that costs $500 and only does what the piano app does wouldn't be a very good deal. But a touchscreen device that can also be a synthesizer, and a multitrack recorder, and a drum machine, and a web browser and video player for little or no extra cost -- you see how the benefits can outweigh the downsides.

justtray
If you think touchscreens are going away, you're insane.

Yeah, how is the waitress going to enter my order.

It's not what we think about touchscreens, it's what kids think about touchscreens. goodnight keyboards. goodnight mice. goodnight input-by-proxy devices everywhere.

justtray: If you think touchscreens are going away, you're insane.

They might morph into pressing on a projection and not a screen, but the medium has changed and will never come back now. There's almost no need for physical buttons on devices anymore.

It has nothing to do with coolness and everything to do with ease of use and minimization of space lowering manufacturing costs.

Really. Whenever a stupid choice is made in a product, look at it from a manufacturing perspective. If it's cheaper to make it that way, it will be the new greatest thing.

ex: Concentrated soaps/ laundry detergents are cheaper to ship and store because of less volume and weight, and they use less water because you add the water when you use it. Front wheel drive cars can have the entire front suspension and drivetrain installed in seconds in one step vs front engine/ rear drive being three or 4 separate steps, especially in unibody cars. Flat pack furniture. Touchscreen phones. No tiny keys to install or warranty. Just slap a touchscreen on there and hey: WAVE OF THE FUTURE.

poot_rootbeer: dittybopper: The problem is that for most tasks, it's measurably inferior to what came before it, so how can it actually be "the best we can accomplish"?

It's a tradeoff. There's always a tradeoff.

Take the little piano app for iPad that's used as an example. Is the interaction quality inferior to that of even a $100 Casio with moving plastic keys? Absolutely. But the sound quality, and the portability, are far better with the iPad.

And then there's flexibility, which adds value as well. A touchscreen device that costs $500 and only does what the piano app does wouldn't be a very good deal. But a touchscreen device that can also be a synthesizer, and a multitrack recorder, and a drum machine, and a web browser and video player for little or no extra cost -- you see how the benefits can outweigh the downsides.

Yeah, but it will be suboptimal in all those tasks, except perhaps for the tasks that require very little manual interaction with the machine (as a video player, for example). And I doubt that it would sound better than a relatively cheap keyboard. I actually used to use a cheap, small keyboard for the (rare) keyboard parts when I was in a band. IIRC, it actually was a Casio, I paid under $100 for it new, and it sounded damn good when played through a proper sound system.

Now, it had a crappy, small half-sized keys. But it *DID* have some tactile response to it, and I could adjust to it, and I didn't have to watch where I put my fingers when I played so I could stare at the chick in the front row with the big tits while I did the piano intro to "Dream On". Man, those were some nice knockers. I mean, not fake ones either, but nice, healthy bouncy jugs....

I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought. What were we talking about again?