Iechyd dda!

(Seriously, the solution to the organ shortage crisis is two-pronged: Firstly, you have to sign a form NOT to be harvested if declared legally dead; secondly, if you have a car accident where you are found at fault, the airbags are immediately removed from your vehicle. Problem(s) solved!)

/support democracy or people like me will rule you.

Welshy- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Would have approved.

Oznog ... hat tip for the trigger finger.

I don't know how to feel about this. Is this communist? I don't care what happens to my corpse when I die--I wouldnt be alive to give a shiat, but some people have thin skin.

WildManBand: I don't know how to feel about this. Is this communist? I don't care what happens to my corpse when I die--I wouldnt be alive to give a shiat, but some people have thin skin.

The thin skinned people are terrible organ donors anyway. I want my new body parts to come from someone with a decent cellular structure.

What a Welsh organ may look like (SFW)

Oznog: [mos.totalfilm.com image 441x280]

Welshy- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Leaving doubly-satisfied.

WildManBand: I don't know how to feel about this. Is this communist? I don't care what happens to my corpse when I die--I wouldnt be alive to give a shiat, but some people have thin skin.

It's farking presumptive, that's what it is. If this was introduced in the rest of the UK, I would dump my donor card and by way of protest, instruct everyone that no, they ain't having my organs.

You know what Iran does? It pays funeral expenses for donors. Guess what? They don't have an organ shortage...

When I die I figured I'd just get cremated or donated to science, but this can work too.
What would really seal the deal for me, is if you could choose what kind of people get your organs.
For instance, those who served in prison I would not want inheriting my organs.
Maybe those with drug offenses you should be allowed to opt out of, whether criminal or not.
Perhaps minorities or religious affiliations I didn't agree with would be pushing it too far?

farkeruk: WildManBand: I don't know how to feel about this. Is this communist? I don't care what happens to my corpse when I die--I wouldnt be alive to give a shiat, but some people have thin skin.

It's farking presumptive, that's what it is. If this was introduced in the rest of the UK, I would dump my donor card and by way of protest, instruct everyone that no, they ain't having my organs.

You know what Iran does? It pays funeral expenses for donors. Guess what? They don't have an organ shortage...

Aren't Muslim bodies supposed to be buried whole?

Goodnight, Miss Fuzzy Britches.

You called?

farkeruk: You know what Iran does? It pays funeral expenses for donors. Guess what? They don't have an organ shortage...

You know what else Iran does? It allows people to sell their unneeded organs for money ("What do I need with a second kidney? Pshaw!")

SN1987a goes boom: Aren't Muslim bodies supposed to be buried whole?

Or at sea, or after having the crap beaten out of them and dragged around a bit, and those are just the rules for heads of state. The rules seem a little fuzzy lately.

farkeruk: WildManBand: I don't know how to feel about this. Is this communist? I don't care what happens to my corpse when I die--I wouldnt be alive to give a shiat, but some people have thin skin.

It's farking presumptive, that's what it is. If this was introduced in the rest of the UK, I would dump my donor card and by way of protest, instruct everyone that no, they ain't having my organs.

You know what Iran does? It pays funeral expenses for donors. Guess what? They don't have an organ shortage...

You imply that Iran doesn't have an organ shortage because of something they do for deceased donors? Iran doesn't really have a deceased-donor organ program. Less than 5% of their transplants come from deceased donors. Link (new window)

Why? Because Iran pays living donors for organs, and I've never read about a pay-for-organs program that I'd want to live under. The article I linked to (full of praise of the Iranian system by Iranian doctors) omits one area: outcomes among donors. Typically, in systems where organs can be bought, the donors do not receive the compensation they were promised and receive very poor post-surgical care. Complications are serious, sometimes preventing the donor from working, and relatively frequent compared to the rates in countries with purely voluntary programs.

I told them they could have my llyver.

draypresct: ... Typically, in systems where organs can be bought, the donors do not receive the compensation they were promised and receive very poor post-surgical care. Complications are serious, sometimes preventing the donor from working, and relatively frequent compared to the rates in countries with purely voluntary programs.

Could that have anything to do with the fact that the typical systems where organs are bought are black markets? Iran's system is pretty unique (although not without flaw).

draypresct: You imply that Iran doesn't have an organ shortage because of something they do for deceased donors? Iran doesn't really have a deceased-donor organ program. Less than 5% of their transplants come from deceased donors. Link (new window)

Why? Because Iran pays living donors for organs, and I've never read about a pay-for-organs program that I'd want to live under. The article I linked to (full of praise of the Iranian system by Iranian doctors) omits one area: outcomes among donors. Typically, in systems where organs can be bought, the donors do not receive the compensation they were promised and receive very poor post-surgical care. Complications are serious, sometimes preventing the donor from working, and relatively frequent compared to the rates in countries with purely voluntary programs.

I believe the donor's outcome is eventually called "completion".

If the deceased declared they wanted them donated, why do their survivors have any right to stop donation beyond bringing up points like "actually, Dad died of rabies"?

Biological Ali: Not sure if serious...

Me? I'm cereal. :| But the Clinical Journal of the American Society of Nephrology (ASNJournals.org) seems kind of serious.

I'll give you my organs when you pry it from my cold, dead body.

Biological Ali: What does any of that have to do with opt-out organ donation?

Noooooothing. My assumption was that your "not sure if serious" was questioning whether or not Iran allows organ selling (on the part of donors).

Roc Brasiliano: draypresct: ... Typically, in systems where organs can be bought, the donors do not receive the compensation they were promised and receive very poor post-surgical care. Complications are serious, sometimes preventing the donor from working, and relatively frequent compared to the rates in countries with purely voluntary programs.

Could that have anything to do with the fact that the typical systems where organs are bought are black markets? Iran's system is pretty unique (although not without flaw).

Nope. Look at the Philippines. They tried legally buying & selling organs for a while, and it became such an unholy mess they gave it up again.
Link (new window)
"Once a kidney is removed the person selling the organ rarely receives adequate posttransplant care. Instead, he or she is released from the hospital without proper follow-up care. Some individuals experience infections and other complications postnephrectomy and must use earnings from kidney sales to purchase costly treatments."

draypresct: farkeruk: WildManBand: I don't know how to feel about this. Is this communist? I don't care what happens to my corpse when I die--I wouldnt be alive to give a shiat, but some people have thin skin.

It's farking presumptive, that's what it is. If this was introduced in the rest of the UK, I would dump my donor card and by way of protest, instruct everyone that no, they ain't having my organs.

You know what Iran does? It pays funeral expenses for donors. Guess what? They don't have an organ shortage...

You imply that Iran doesn't have an organ shortage because of something they do for deceased donors? Iran doesn't really have a deceased-donor organ program. Less than 5% of their transplants come from deceased donors. Link (new window)

Why? Because Iran pays living donors for organs, and I've never read about a pay-for-organs program that I'd want to live under. The article I linked to (full of praise of the Iranian system by Iranian doctors) omits one area: outcomes among donors. Typically, in systems where organs can be bought, the donors do not receive the compensation they were promised and receive very poor post-surgical care. Complications are serious, sometimes preventing the donor from working, and relatively frequent compared to the rates in countries with purely voluntary programs.

Good documentary on Iranian Kidney Bargain Sale (new window)

Creepy. The known rules are:
Transplants can only go to Iranians
Govt pays donor $2000
Recipient pays $1000 to donor

Unlike the US, the donor and recipient usually meet, and there's no restrictions on the donor asking for more from the recipient. IIRC it's basically under-the-table but no functional restriction against doing so.

It seems to frequently leads to these combating Four Yorkshiremen stories. The donor always wants extra payment from the recipient, begs about debts that could land them in prison. The recipient counters with "sorry but we're poor and in debt too- but you're lucky since you won't die if this doesn't happen". Of course tissue matches are a lottery situation, and in some way a potential recipient and donor are somewhat stuck with each other. The recipient can't just grab the next person in line, nor can the donor.

And there's these urban legends about how much people can get for their kidney, so potential donors are expecting much more, trying to plead with the agency for more money because of their situation of greater need. Like it's a charity. But the official fees that are paid by the agency are govt-regulated. The agency gets this day in, day out and tends to be very "short" with people looking for more money from them. But they always end with the suggestion they defer their sob story over to the donor- who is rarely in a position to give more money either, but it gets them out of his office.

I'm kinda wondering if this documentary is even real. There's a guy going on-camera to state he needs to sell his kidney so his wife can have an illegal abortion. Sounds kinda far fetched that he'd let his face be shown there, although I've never quite understood the relationship of govt and people in Iran. From what I can tell, the govt throws out so many ridiculous prohibitions that a lot of people are just scofflaws and a lot of people don't consider breaking laws to be a "deal" of any sort.

stevarooni: Biological Ali: Not sure if serious...

Me? I'm cereal. :| But the Clinical Journal of the American Society of Nephrology (ASNJournals.org) seems kind of serious.

Note that they don't address outcomes (complications, deaths) among the donors in that article.

But don't worry - with Iran's long history of regard for human rights, I'm sure they take good care of the poor people who get

draypresct: Roc Brasiliano: draypresct: ... Typically, in systems where organs can be bought, the donors do not receive the compensation they were promised and receive very poor post-surgical care. Complications are serious, sometimes preventing the donor from working, and relatively frequent compared to the rates in countries with purely voluntary programs.

Could that have anything to do with the fact that the typical systems where organs are bought are black markets? Iran's system is pretty unique (although not without flaw).

Nope. Look at the Philippines. They tried legally buying & selling organs for a while, and it became such an unholy mess they gave it up again.
Link (new window)
"Once a kidney is removed the person selling the organ rarely receives adequate posttransplant care. Instead, he or she is released from the hospital without proper follow-up care. Some individuals experience infections and other complications postnephrectomy and must use earnings from kidney sales to purchase costly treatments."

That article reads more like predation on part of the organ brokers and a failure in proper regulation were to blame. Aside from how corrupt that part of the world tends to get, anyways. I'm pretty sure if a similar system was set up with Obama in charge, we wouldn't have those sorts of problems.

The world is "welch", you nonskulls.

Biological Ali: Ah. Fair enough; I suppose I didn't make it that clear. I was just wondering why somebody would bring up an entirely unrelated Iranian policy as part of an argument against opt-out donation.

Because of farkeruk's comment about organ shortages, and I remembered that Iran doesn't have a shortage of kidney donors. Though as others have discussed, there may be complications/money grubbing. ;-)

What a Welsh may look like...

Roc Brasiliano: That article reads more like predation on part of the organ brokers and a failure in proper regulation were to blame. Aside from how corrupt that part of the world tends to get, anyways. I'm pretty sure if a similar system was set up with Obama in charge, we wouldn't have those sorts of problems.

Not sure if serious, but . . .

Some of the predatory issues we could probably solve, yes. But we don't exactly have a system set up to take care of the health care of the poorest people; the ones most likely to feel that $X,000 is sufficient motivation to donate. Hopefully we'd have a lower complication rate though, assuming our doctors are more ethical about that - haven't looked at any comparative rates, though.

Stay classy Wales...

/Half Welsh
//All Dirty

They should be required to define a metope.

/obscure, morgan?

hipsellipsis: The world is "welch", you nonskulls.

How is that even funny? I feel gypped.

hipsellipsis: The world is "welch", you nonskulls.

I don't see what grape juice has to do with any of this.

Cagey B: I told them they could have my llyver.

You're one of those llandowners, aren't you?

Gratuitous shot of what Welsh export gave Michael Douglas the will to beat cancer.

Fack.

Not to mention one with a full-on Welsh accent:

vpb: Why don't we just break people for organs as a form of execution? Then Texas could supply the whole country.

Larry Niven is waaay ahead of you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organlegging

Has anyone ever come up with a good reason to not sign up to be an organ & tissue donor?