The idea of small government is appealing but inevitably, it seems utterly impractical. I actually like a lot of what Ron Paul says. I would easily take him over any of the other Republican candidates. But he has no solution to what we should do for those people who NEED government assistance like Medicare or Medicaid, or Social Security.

Although, he's probably a racist and a homophobe, at least Paul is consistent with his voting record. He's generally a honest politician, and despite being libertarian, he has nothing to do with the Koch brothers.

That said, I consider myself more of a left libertarian (or libertarian socialist) rather than a free-market libertarian..

shivashakti: That said, I consider myself more of a left libertarian (or libertarian socialist) rather than a free-market libertarian..

Geolibertarians have a fair amount of overlap with some of the Greens, at least in tax policy.

/The former head of the Green Party of Ontario, Frank de Jong, holds a lot of the same positions I do.

No. No it's not.

It's an ethos that goes against the very basic tenets of human cognizance, but hey, it could work!

Weaver95: well this thread should be fun to watch...



They were going to cut off my Gary Johnson, dude.

You see, I'm a Libertarian. I'm not like a Republicrat or a Democan. My beliefs can't be pigeonholed. I'm unique and different... kind of like a snowflake.

Because People in power are Stupid: Somalia -Libertarian Paradise

The Libertarian model is a step toward monarchy/feudalism. The very thing we fought a war to escape. Europe had 1000 years of libertarian induced bloodshed. No thank you.

I will grant 'libertarians' this: they're not half as douchey as Objectivists...

Churchy LaFemme: I will grant 'libertarians' this: they're not half as douchey as Objectivists...

Except for the Libertarians who are also Objectivists. Then the level of douchiness goes exponential.

Philip Francis Queeg: Churchy LaFemme: I will grant 'libertarians' this: they're not half as douchey as Objectivists...

Except for the Libertarians who are also Objectivists. Then the level of douchiness goes exponential.

AYN RAND PAUL

My experience is that about 90% of so-called libertarians are social conservatives as well as fiscal conservatives. They're just unwilling to call themselves Republicans for one reason or another.

I'll stop thinking the Libertarian Party is a joke when that changes.

I've never met a Libertarian that wasn't also an asshole.

apeiron242: The Libertarian model is a step toward monarchy/feudalism.

Or Snow Crash-style corporatism.

/Wouldn't mind me some superfast pizza delivery.

Ve believe in no revenue!

/ Vere is ze government zat functions visout money, Lebowski?

Make More Hinjews: Ve believe in no revenue!

/ Vere is ze government zat functions visout money, Lebowski?

Pffft. United Federation of Planets, dummy.

FuturePastNow: My experience is that about 90% of so-called libertarians are social conservatives as well as fiscal conservatives. They're just unwilling to call themselves Republicans for one reason or another because the veneer of nonpartisanship is cheap and it's an easy trick to pull on the politically ignorant.

FTFY.

coeyagi: Pffft. United Federation of Planets, dummy.

That reference just cost you ten credits.

/ And got you a green for fellow-dorkdom. Light green okay?

abb3w: coco ebert: And here I thought it was a personality disorder.

The data aren't to a p>0.95 level of confidence last I heard.

I think you mean p < 0.05.

physt: I've never met a Libertarian that wasn't also an asshole.

That, too.

atomsmoosher: [www.leftycartoons.com image 640x960]

I'm of a Heinlein bent, I admit. Heinlein started off as a socialist, true fact.

What I don't get is conflation of libertarian and anarchist, by both Tea Party types AND the people who mock them.

FuturePastNow: My experience is that about 90% of so-called libertarians are social conservatives as well as fiscal conservatives. They're just unwilling to call themselves Republicans for one reason or another.

I'll stop thinking the Libertarian Party is a joke when that changes.

Can we do away with this mindset, please? There are left-leaning libertarians, myself included. I'm in my 40's and have never once voted Republican in any election. Your argument, and others in here, that we're just Bush supporters who are embarrassed is not accurate in any way.

atomsmoosher: atomsmoosher: [www.leftycartoons.com image 640x960]

I'm of a Heinlein bent, I admit. Heinlein started off as a socialist, true fact.

What I don't get is conflation of libertarian and anarchist, by both Tea Party types AND the people who mock them.

It's the same thing as the tax cut argument. If lower taxes is better, no taxes is best. If smaller government is better, no government is best. It's not a slippery slope so much as a logical progression.

Any economic or social theory that does not start with the assumption that people are assholes is fundamentally wrong. Sorry, Libertarianism.

shivashakti: The idea of small government is appealing but inevitably, it seems utterly impractical. I actually like a lot of what Ron Paul says. I would easily take him over any of the other Republican candidates. But he has no solution to what we should do for those people who NEED government assistance like Medicare or Medicaid, or Social Security.

Although, he's probably a racist and a homophobe, at least Paul is consistent with his voting record. He's generally a honest politician, and despite being libertarian, he has nothing to do with the Koch brothers.

That said, I consider myself more of a left libertarian (or libertarian socialist) rather than a free-market libertarian..

Size is a stupid thing to paint a bullseye on. GDP is billions of dollars, there 350 million Americans, there's trillions in money being exchanged yearly. there's about 3.8 million government workers in the US. That's about 1% of the population. That's not a huge problem.

Efficiency and Production should be the metrics on government we strive for. Those are problems.

Taxes are evil, government is evil is not a position that can last long in the real world. It's also a good way to threaten national security and run us into a economic black hole.

Ronny, you're out of your element.



shut the fark up, Ronny.

Also, Libertarians are just republicans who smoke pot.

You ask for libertarianism, but you always end up getting neoliberalism.

atomsmoosher: atomsmoosher: [www.leftycartoons.com image 640x960]

I'm of a Heinlein bent, I admit. Heinlein started off as a socialist, true fact.

What I don't get is conflation of libertarian and anarchist, by both Tea Party types AND the people who mock them.

I was an embarrassingly hard core Heinlein "Moon is Harsh Mistress" Libertarian (came *this* close to getting a TANSTAAFL tattoo) but then I turned 19, got a real job and grew the fark up.

Libertarians need to realize they can get more done by teaming up with Democrats rather than Republicans. Democrats could never have passed the PATRIOT ACT.

You gotta get over the tax cut thing. Democrats love tax cuts now and Republicans wanna raise everyone's taxes but millionaires and billionaires.

Make More Hinjews: coeyagi: Pffft. United Federation of Planets, dummy.

That reference just cost you ten credits.

/ And got you a green for fellow-dorkdom. Light green okay?

They say geniuses choose green, so yeah.

physt: I've never met a Libertarian that wasn't also an asshole.

I know one. He and I don't talk politics, but I get the sense he's more civil libertarian than fiscal. Nice guy otherwise.

libertarianism is actually just a mild for of autism.

atomsmoosher: What I don't get is conflation of libertarian and anarchist

Because the next progression from "less government" is "no government", same with services, public well-being, society itself, etc.
The most vocal of Libertarians fit under both terms quite well, regardless of how many people they represent.

Lost Thought 00: Your personal anecdote does not counter polling data that most self-identified Libertarians end up voting for Republican candidates.

Sure, from the polling data you cite and which most in the thread are generally aware "In the Zogby survey, 59 percent of libertarians voted for Republican candidates for Congress, and 36 percent voted for Democrats", but what we see in threads like this is:

"Well, that, and they all vote Republican despite decades of evidence that the Republicans are all about bigger government, legislated morality, and flat-out burgling the coffers of the state..."

See how the data and the perception don't match up? That's what I'm trying to get across. We're not Bushbots marching in lockstep.

enry: physt: I've never met a Libertarian that wasn't also an asshole.

I know one. He and I don't talk politics, but I get the sense he's more civil libertarian than fiscal. Nice guy otherwise.

Most of the ones I know just use libertarianism as an excuse to smoke weed and not follow viable candidates because they are all part of a decaying 2-party system. Some truth to that second part.