Shocked? What do you expect after democrats gave us NAFTA and GATT?

EnviroDude: Shocked? What do you expect after democrats gave us NAFTA and GATT?

It's people like you that should be GLAD literacy tests aren't coming back.

EnviroDude: Shocked? What do you expect after democrats both parties gave us NAFTA and GATT?

All the major "free" trade agreements have had both parties' fingerprints on them, including the decision to grant MFN to Red China in the 1990s. First done by Bush and
Renewed by Clinton in 1994

A real laugher from that piece:
Clinton had been the subject of heavy lobbying by American business interests and his economic advisers to continue China's trade privileges. With China now the world's fastest growing economy, the United States exports $8 billion a year there, which sustains up to 150,000 American jobs. Many major American businesses see even greater potential in Chinese markets, expecting China to become a massive purchaser over the next decade of the phones, electronic gadgets and thousands of other products made in America.

Well that sure f*cking happened, didn't it? Some Democrats, including Pelosi, argued against Clinton's decision.

If I remember correctly, most Democrats in Congress voted against NAFTA and most Republicans voted for it.

Besides, "free trade" is something Republicans champion.

vpb: If I remember correctly, most Democrats in Congress voted against NAFTA and most Republicans voted for it.

Besides, "free trade" is something Republicans champion.

And signed into law by Bill Clinton?

No?

EnviroDude: vpb: If I remember correctly, most Democrats in Congress voted against NAFTA and most Republicans voted for it.

Besides, "free trade" is something Republicans champion.

And signed into law by Bill Clinton?

No?

So...it's all the Democrats fault, because Republicans pushed the legislation against Democrats wishes, but a Democrat president signed it, so it's a Democratic initiative.

Got it.

EnviroDude: Shocked? What do you expect after democrats gave us NAFTA and GATT?

Really? That's the spin you're going to go with?

The only candidate that was campaigning against NAFTA was Ross Perot. Turns out that the little crazy dude kind of had a point, but it's pretty damned disingenuous for you to imply that it was ever a topic that either the Dems or the Repubs were campaigning against.

The low rates given to us by Alan Greenspan in the early 2000s created a boom in housing and perceived wealth with increased housing values. We spent more, jobs in related industries and travel and tourism boomed as people thought they had money. All the while this was happening, high-paying low-education required jobs were being eliminated via outsourcing and automation.

We masked it all with the boom, and when that bubble burst, reality hit home, HARD. We've been digging this hole for awhile now and we won't get out of it any time soon.

Some 'Splainin' To Do: EnviroDude: Shocked? What do you expect after democrats gave us NAFTA and GATT?

Really? That's the spin you're going to go with?

The only candidate that was campaigning against NAFTA was Ross Perot. Turns out that the little crazy dude kind of had a point was right, but it's pretty damned disingenuous for you to imply that it was ever a topic that either the Dems or the Repubs were campaigning against.

He was still a crazy dude. Right up until Al Gore handed him his ass.

liverleef: I guess thats just how it goes in a globalized world but it still sucks.

I also work (as a contractor) for a massive company that off shored many many people. I shop and eat locally. I recognize the money and brain drain and do what I can to inject some of that back into the local economy.

This book opened my eyes to how bad NAFTA was for Mexico. Too bad we weren't smart enough to realize they'd do it here, too.

Yes, yes, but see those are UNION jobs. Union people doesn't deserve jobs.

B... b... but the Bush taxcuts?!

But I thought we were moving to a service based economy where we'd all make cheeseburgers for each other!

EnviroDude: Shocked? What do you expect after democrats gave us NAFTA and GATT?

Research what neo liberal economic policies are.

Party Boy: EnviroDude: Shocked? What do you expect after democrats gave us NAFTA and GATT?

Research what neo liberal economic policies are.

Dude has a solid point. We've been taking it in the ass on these policies from both sides. I know Gramm-Leech-Bliley would have passed a veto, but we've got a serious problem and both parties are stuck at the f*cking trough taking their benes and handouts.

We're being sold out. Yes, mostly Republican economic policies, but the Dems have not exactly shown themselves as economic heroes either.

J... j... job creators.

NewportBarGuy: Yes, mostly Republican economic policies, but the Dems have not exactly shown themselves as economic heroes either.

We're going ra-rah-rah for these political teams, when we have a beef with a type of economic policy. When we look at the economic policy, then we notice how political party doesnt fit neatly in that category.

This brings us to a very salient point thats often obscured from us. Unfortunately, it seems people like to acknowledge it, forget it, and go back to brand "X."

Party Boy: This brings us to a very salient point thats often obscured from us. Unfortunately, it seems people like to acknowledge it, forget it, and go back to brand "X."

I'm seriously sick of it. I mean, like physically and mentally. I'll engage in debate, but I try to remain calm and level-headed. It's hard when people just throw bullsh*t out there and hope they know what they are talking about.

I just don't get it. If they do not understand why the financial system collapsed, why do they feel the need to make something up to appear like they do know something. I don't know jack sh*t about science. Do you see me arguing with scientists? No, i mostly take them at their word, with a grain of salt, and I understand the peer-review process. I take whate they say, store it, and review it as new evidence comes out. Like how salt has been both good and bad for you over the past 30 years. They update and revise.

We have a knowledge gap and it's killing me. These people just will not listen to exactly why we are where we are and what caused it. It's not a theory, we factually know what occurred. Now we have to wade through the political bullshiat as both sides defend their actions. It's a gigantic sh*t sammich and we all have to take a bite.

NewportBarGuy: I'm seriously sick of it. I mean, like physically and mentally. I'll engage in debate, but I try to remain calm and level-headed. It's hard when people just throw bullsh*t out there and hope they know what they are talking about.

I just don't get it. If they do not understand why the financial system collapsed, why do they feel the need to make something up to appear like they do know something. I don't know jack sh*t about science. Do you see me arguing with scientists? No, i mostly take them at their word, with a grain of salt, and I understand the peer-review process. I take whate they say, store it, and review it as new evidence comes out. Like how salt has been both good and bad for you over the past 30 years. They update and revise.

We have a knowledge gap and it's killing me. These people just will not listen to exactly why we are where we are and what caused it. It's not a theory, we factually know what occurred. Now we have to wade through the political bullshiat as both sides defend their actions. It's a gigantic sh*t sammich and we all have to take a bite.

You are going to need a break. Thanksgiving is coming up. if you go into that this fatigued by the bullshiat, you'll start calling family members "total dumbasses."

whidbey: Both sides?

You know me well enough. Not even close. I know which party is at least somewhat sane. I'm just not thrilled by them.

Party Boy: You are going to need a break. Thanksgiving is coming up. if you go into that this fatigued by the bullshiat, you'll start calling family members "total dumbasses."

I agree. Seriously. I need to listen to enya or some sh*t. thankfully, my family is mostly to my thinking, and those who aren't, I'm polite and respectful of them. I like that idea. A break. Sounds peaceful.

Sorry, the steel manufacturing businesses are not coming back to Ohio.

They lit too many rivers on fire, and treated the workers like chattel that we put a stop to their excesses and added regulations and worker protections to their business.

This is not a rant against the EPA and unions.

Business friendly is not a synonym for letting them do whatever they want to workers and the environment.

Farking While Farking: Arguing over who is at fault for decades old trade agreements farking us over is a polarizing, distracting and counterproductive waste of time that only benefits the few very wealthy people who make a lot of money off the status-quo.

The important question to ask is who is going to fix it and how.

Historical depth here is necessary in implementing a fix in Washington. Uncovering this depth reveals adherents to these relevant economic policies thats not discretely divided among party. Ultimately, our collective power rests on sovereignty, and its (I believe) our duty to engage one another on these topics.

We're lead to believe the political argument is one of party, but when we dig a little, we see that "D" and "R" at the Thanksgiving table agree intensely on certain subjects, and we're often divided on rhetorical minutae thats often divisive and hyperbolic. In other words, the "red stater" complaining about lost jobs to Mexico, and the "blue stater" complaining about economic policies and wealth inequality are both complaining under a larger umbrella of neoliberal economics.

Its a meeting ground thats hiding in plain sight in an era of intense political pugilism. If i was rich or powerful, I'd probably want people arguing over stupid shiat, too.

Isitoveryet: workers rebellions.

we need the cheap labor countries workers to demand more for their labor.

a lot more.

or at the very least publish which businesses outsource so that American consumers know who to buy from.

I remember the made in the U.S.A. slogan, not sure how big of an impact that would have today.

Didn't "Made in the U.S.A" get watered down so that it qualifies as long as they finished the product here (I.E. sewing the Made in the USA label on it)?

NewportBarGuy: I agree. Seriously. I need to listen to enya or some sh*t. thankfully, my family is mostly to my thinking, and those who aren't, I'm polite and respectful of them. I like that idea. A break. Sounds peaceful.

Alcohol and stress. You can't take back "STFU, you JACKWAD DITTOHEAD"

whidbey: Guess I should count my lucky stars that none of my immediate family are right-wing Fox lovin' nutjobs...

Drink up, then. You cal call abstract people jackwad all night long.