Classy thing to do by Ali. If the situation were reversed I doubt Joe would say the same.

Did they actually make up? I know that at least as of a few years ago, Joe said that he never forgave Ali for his shenanigans leading up to the first fight.

Snapper Carr: Did they actually make up? I know that at least as of a few years ago, Joe said that he never forgave Ali for his shenanigans leading up to the first fight.

Frazier

"The Butterfly and me have been through some ups and downs and there have been lots of emotions, many of them bad. But I have forgiven him. I had to. You cannot hold out for ever. There were bruises in my heart because of the words he used. I spent years dreaming about him and wanting to hurt him. But you have got to throw that stick out of the window. Do not forget that we needed each other, to produce some of the greatest fights of all time."

AdmirableSnackbar: Classy thing to do by Ali. If the situation were reversed I doubt Joe would say the same.

What would Joe have said?

Gunny Highway: AdmirableSnackbar: Classy thing to do by Ali. If the situation were reversed I doubt Joe would say the same.

What would Joe have said?

He did make fun of Ali's Parkinsons when Ali lit the torch at the Olympics in Atlanta and has said some pretty nasty things about Ali's health in the past. Seems that Joe has finally let go of his grudge but he acted like a cockbag towards Ali for decades after their careers ended.

AdmirableSnackbar: Gunny Highway: AdmirableSnackbar: Classy thing to do by Ali. If the situation were reversed I doubt Joe would say the same.

What would Joe have said?

He did make fun of Ali's Parkinsons when Ali lit the torch at the Olympics in Atlanta and has said some pretty nasty things about Ali's health in the past. Seems that Joe has finally let go of his grudge but he acted like a cockbag towards Ali for decades after their careers ended.

Yeah. They have a pretty venomous past with one another. It seems they have both have finally got over it which is nice to see

Joe Frazier is my favorite all-time boxer. The best reason for this is his first fight against George Foreman, when he got knocked down six times in 2 rounds and kept going back for more. That's how I try to live my life.

"Stay down, Joe. You've had enough" - George Foreman

I wonder who would win if Frasier and Ali fought today.

erik316wttn: I wonder who would win if Frasier and Ali fought today.

Biology with a 2 rd. KO

erik316wttn: I wonder who would win if Frasier and Ali fought today.

The ambulance driver with the best cornering.

AdmirableSnackbar: Classy thing to do by Ali. If the situation were reversed I doubt Joe would say the same.

Part of me hopes that Muhammad Ali is just setting the table for an awesome "down goes Frazi-uh!" Howard Cosell impression at his deathbed.

When he finally does pass, all of the TFers are going to have a race to get the green light for "down goes Frazier, down goes Frazier, down goes Frazier".

AdmiralSnackbar:Seems that Joe has finally let go of his grudge but he acted like a cockbag towards Ali for decades after their careers ended.


Thats a really, really, really onesided view on their fued. I would ask that you rent "Ali-Frazier: One Nation...Divisible." Or read Mark Kram's book "Ghosts of Manilla". You will see it in a different light altogether.
Ali was a meanspirited, anti-Christian douche who belittled Frazier to "help sell their big fight" in 1971. Only problem was they were guaranteed their gate, with no extra percentage. A light skinned middle class black man calling a southern-born, Philly inner city raised darker black man an "Uncle Tom" and a "Gorilla" probably would bother anyone, even years later.

I think Fraz deserved a few comeback insults without being called a "cockbag" by Mr. Snackbar.

torr5962: AdmiralSnackbar:Seems that Joe has finally let go of his grudge but he acted like a cockbag towards Ali for decades after their careers ended.


Thats a really, really, really onesided view on their fued. I would ask that you rent "Ali-Frazier: One Nation...Divisible." Or read Mark Kram's book "Ghosts of Manilla". You will see it in a different light altogether.
Ali was a meanspirited, anti-Christian douche who belittled Frazier to "help sell their big fight" in 1971. Only problem was they were guaranteed their gate, with no extra percentage. A light skinned middle class black man calling a southern-born, Philly inner city raised darker black man an "Uncle Tom" and a "Gorilla" probably would bother anyone, even years later.

I think Fraz deserved a few comeback insults without being called a "cockbag" by Mr. Snackbar.

My point was that Frazier never let go of the hard feelings towards Ali, for decades after the fact. I'll check out your recommendations but as I understand it Ali's act was pure showmanship and Frazier didn't understand that and took it too personally. Sure, Ali said some nasty things but he was just trying to get in Frazier's head. And it worked too well.

The documentary is in my top 5-6 of all time.
A sad quote from the movie is when Frazier says, almost embarrassed, "I was forced to swallow a lot of razor blades. Some of them cut." You get the feeling that Frazier never understood the avalanche that was Ali-someone who was just bigger than the game. Both book and movie float the idea that Ali was jealous of Frazier's inner city respect, so he found every way possible to belittle him. Making him seem like Stepin Fetchet would be considered terrible if it came out of anyone else's mouth.

I have special hate for Bryant Gumbel who wrote an article asking, "Is Joe Frazier the White Man's Champion?". I dont think he understood the damage that it caused Frazier. It was never Fraz's fault that white's (and at the time, veterans) hated Ali and loved whoever could beat him.

torr5962: I have special hate for Bryant Gumbel who wrote an article asking, "Is Joe Frazier the White Man's Champion?". I dont think he understood the damage that it caused Frazier. It was never Fraz's fault that white's (and at the time, veterans) hated Ali and loved whoever could beat him.

I grew up in a Frazier household. My father always tried to explain that Ali was a pretty nasty guy and the media likes to ignore that. Ali is an incredibly interesting figure in American history as far as I am concerned.

/Pop still says Ali is the most amazing fighter he ever saw.

Gunny Highway: torr5962: I have special hate for Bryant Gumbel who wrote an article asking, "Is Joe Frazier the White Man's Champion?". I dont think he understood the damage that it caused Frazier. It was never Fraz's fault that white's (and at the time, veterans) hated Ali and loved whoever could beat him.

I grew up in a Frazier household. My father always tried to explain that Ali was a pretty nasty guy and the media likes to ignore that. Ali is an incredibly interesting figure in American history as far as I am concerned.

/Pop still says Ali is the most amazing fighter he ever saw.
ESPN recently aired, "The Real Rocky" didn't exactly cast Ali in a positive light.

But Ali would act like a douchebag to sell fights. It was all gamesmanship with him.

And I don't doubt he was probably the Greatest. In his prime he could have beaten anyone of any era.

/Pop still says Ali is the most amazing fighter he ever saw.
ESPN recently aired, "The Real Rocky" didn't exactly cast Ali in a positive light.

But Ali would act like a douchebag to sell fights. It was all gamesmanship with him.

And I don't doubt he was probably the Greatest. In his prime he could have beaten anyone of any era.


Ali admittedly claimed he saw Gorgeous George's wrestling act in Louisville and thought that if he transfer that "craziness" to boxing that it would be just as huge. George made more than any wrestler of his era and was the forerunner to bad guys and good guys in Pro Wrestling.

But somewhere along the line Ali forgot that this wasnt Wrestling-this was real. People could die after entering the ring. Boxers, especially heavyweights, are some of the bravest athletes. I think you can sell a fight, but there is a barrier of class that should have been adhered to. Denigrating another black man the way he did Frazier was low and wrong. I refuse to believe that was part of the "act" or "gamesmanship". It was personal and there are lines that shouldnt be crossed. For example, no one in todays world would allow a white fighter to use racial slurs and then pretend it was all "promotion". It would sell the fight, but the white fighter would be a pariah. Benny Paret famously (or infamously) taunted Emile Griffith pre fight and during the weigh-in for the rumors of Griffith's bisexuality. Griffith beat Paret into a coma\death.

Ali being the greatest is slightly overdone too. His talent is unmistakable-a rare combination of size, speed and a great jaw. But he didnt dominate his era like the press would have you believe. All three of the Frazier fights were razor close, as were his fights with Ken Norton. Only Ali would have been allowed to fight on the ropes for 24 minutes against Foreman. I won't even speculate on the 2nd Liston fight, which could be described as "shady" at best. Im not so sure a 22 year old, bob and weave Tyson doesnt give him a long day at the office. Norton had a style that gave Ali trouble-tough defense and short left hooks. Holyfield was a better Norton. "Biggest star" and "Best ever" are not one in the same.

torr5962: /Pop still says Ali is the most amazing fighter he ever saw.
ESPN recently aired, "The Real Rocky" didn't exactly cast Ali in a positive light.

But Ali would act like a douchebag to sell fights. It was all gamesmanship with him.

And I don't doubt he was probably the Greatest. In his prime he could have beaten anyone of any era.


Ali admittedly claimed he saw Gorgeous George's wrestling act in Louisville and thought that if he transfer that "craziness" to boxing that it would be just as huge. George made more than any wrestler of his era and was the forerunner to bad guys and good guys in Pro Wrestling.

But somewhere along the line Ali forgot that this wasnt Wrestling-this was real. People could die after entering the ring. Boxers, especially heavyweights, are some of the bravest athletes. I think you can sell a fight, but there is a barrier of class that should have been adhered to. Denigrating another black man the way he did Frazier was low and wrong. I refuse to believe that was part of the "act" or "gamesmanship". It was personal and there are lines that shouldnt be crossed. For example, no one in todays world would allow a white fighter to use racial slurs and then pretend it was all "promotion". It would sell the fight, but the white fighter would be a pariah. Benny Paret famously (or infamously) taunted Emile Griffith pre fight and during the weigh-in for the rumors of Griffith's bisexuality. Griffith beat Paret into a coma\death.

Ali being the greatest is slightly overdone too. His talent is unmistakable-a rare combination of size, speed and a great jaw. But he didnt dominate his era like the press would have you believe. All three of the Frazier fights were razor close, as were his fights with Ken Norton. Only Ali would have been allowed to fight on the ropes for 24 minutes against Foreman. I won't even speculate on the 2nd Liston fight, which could be described as "shady" at best. Im not so sure a 22 year old, bob and weave Tyson doesnt give him a long day at the office. Norton had a style that gave Ali trouble-tough defense and short left hooks. Holyfield was a better Norton. "Biggest star" and "Best ever" are not one in the same.

I always thought Ali was a real a$$hole. The way he treated Joe Louis was pretty awful too. And I believe Ali was not the greatest in his prime. Different fighters from different eras could have beaten him. Ali always had a very difficult time with fighters who would come in and fight on the inside think Frasier, Chuvalo.

Smokin' Joe just went down for the count. Good night sweet prince.

rip

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