They're fighting over less money over ten years than will be lost by not playing for a season and coupled with the unknown millions from pissing off fans that will ultimately no longer follow the NBA. That's not to excuse the greed of the owners either....both sides are just greedy assholes.

I love basketball and would love to see a season, but again...these guys are huge assholes. Unions were never meant for such things and if they left it up to the players to vote on the current offer it would likely pass. The clock is ticking on the short careers the players have and mid to low range players just want to play.

Also FTA..."While a 50-50 split might sound reasonable to NBA fans, the union insists that owners skim $600-$700 million off the top, meaning that players wouldn't really be getting an even slice of the pie in a league-advertised 50-50 split."

Considering the owners are also absorbing all the costs of operation this is a bit of misnomer. It also sounds like the union is not operating in good faith if they are accusing the league of skimming from the top without actual proof.

MayoSlather: They're fighting over less money over ten years than will be lost by not playing for a season and coupled with the unknown millions from pissing off fans that will ultimately no longer follow the NBA. That's not to excuse the greed of the owners either....both sides are just greedy assholes.

I love basketball and would love to see a season, but again...these guys are huge assholes. Unions were never meant for such things and if they left it up to the players to vote on the current offer it would likely pass. The clock is ticking on the short careers the players have and mid to low range players just want to play.

Also FTA..."While a 50-50 split might sound reasonable to NBA fans, the union insists that owners skim $600-$700 million off the top, meaning that players wouldn't really be getting an even slice of the pie in a league-advertised 50-50 split."

Considering the owners are also absorbing all the costs of operation this is a bit of misnomer. It also sounds like the union is not operating in good faith if they are accusing the league of skimming from the top without actual proof.

It's the teams that always refuse to open up their books. Here is deadspin's analyss of the Nets. Deadspin (new window).

They've posted a correction because they didn't get everything right. Even if the Nets are losing money, it's up to them and the rest of the teams to prove this, isn't it?

On the plus side, this will help with that problem of college players declaring early and high schoolers not even bothering with college.

God damn it.

I hope the NBA season gets cancelled, and the league becomes poison to the major broadcasters when it does come back so that they can only get a TV deal with B.E.T.

I find it funny that AGENTS are pushing for decertification of the Uniion

If i understand the process correctly, and I think I do, this will go to the courts over a 2-3 month timeline in anti-trust litigation and appeals courts...

Ultimately, if the courts side with the owners (which they will since the owners have $$$$) then the owners can start the season with scab players...

So, how funny it would be to see 2012 graduates slide right from March Madness into the NBA

Lost Thought 00: I hope the NBA season gets cancelled, and the league becomes poison to the major broadcasters when it does come back so that they can only get a TV deal with B.E.T.

Hockey fan?

How are they going to feed their kids?

/Seriously, if the players lose an entire season of paychecks, those mansions and cars and entourages still need to be paid for.
//My guess is a lot of the NBA's 99%'ers would be just fine taking a pay cut from the $473,604 league minimum, if the alternate is $0.

Christmas came early for hockey fans. Bring on the hockey broadcasts!

Further down the page, the following may be found: Link (new window)

samples
(only nine pics total, these are the finer ones (IMO))

i for one would not shed even a single tear if the NBA just folded all together. good riddance.

MayoSlather: Considering the owners are also absorbing all the costs of operation this is a bit of misnomer. It also sounds like the union is not operating in good faith if they are accusing the league of skimming from the top without actual proof.


Do you even know what good faith means? Advertising a proposal as a 50-50 revenue split when in reality it's 50-50 NET isn't good faith. Pointing out a misrepresentation or omission certainly isn't bad faith as well.

In addition, funny how you should accuse the players of negotiating in bad faith by not providing evidence of their assertion when owners have consistently refused to open the books of the franchises in order to support their assertion that the revenue split needs to be reduced from 57% to 47% in order for the teams to be profitable. According to your logic the owners are the parties negotiating in bad faith.

We still have football and college basketball, right?

Then nothing of importance was lost.

Why would I drive four hours and pay $40 just for the ticket to sit in the upper level and watch the Bobcats?

"If you can't make a profit, you should sell your team,"
- Michael Jordan, to Washington Wizard's owner Abe Pollin in 1998 labor negotiations

Here's a good writeup about what is/isn't included in the BRI, along with other points. It's just one guy's blog, but he does hit a lot of points - especially that ESPN is not always factual and forthcoming:
Link (new window)

Mike_LowELL: When's European Basketball start? I long gave up any hope that the NBA would be in action this year.

College starts Friday, and contrary to what your dumbass might think, College is leaps and bounds better than Europe. The Kentucky/North Carolina game on December 3 will probably feature enough future NBA guys to fill a full roster.

Mike_LowELL: Lost Thought 00: I hope the NBA season gets cancelled, and the league becomes poison to the major broadcasters when it does come back so that they can only get a TV deal with B.E.T.

Yup. No racism in this thread at all. No, sir.

What does the "B" in B.E.T. stand for? I'd say Lost Thought is merely making a correlative observation, not degrading a race.

Devin172: MayoSlather: Considering the owners are also absorbing all the costs of operation this is a bit of misnomer. It also sounds like the union is not operating in good faith if they are accusing the league of skimming from the top without actual proof.


Do you even know what good faith means? Advertising a proposal as a 50-50 revenue split when in reality it's 50-50 NET isn't good faith. Pointing out a misrepresentation or omission certainly isn't bad faith as well.

In addition, funny how you should accuse the players of negotiating in bad faith by not providing evidence of their assertion when owners have consistently refused to open the books of the franchises in order to support their assertion that the revenue split needs to be reduced from 57% to 47% in order for the teams to be profitable. According to your logic the owners are the parties negotiating in bad faith.

Fine so the owners are wrong and the highest paid group of sports athletes in human history are ....right? Should the players be forced to disclose what they make in endorsement deals as part of the % of bri since the league freely promotes them and gives them the worldwide name recognition? I mean that's the equivalent of what players believe they have the right to with the owners money.

In all seriousness you may be right ....both sides are still assholes. Both sides are getting a fair shake and making money with a 50/50 split...There really isn't a right answer determining who deserves to be obscenely richer.

Faced with a take-it-or-leave-it proposition from NBA owners, pro basketball players aren't going to cave and take what they see as a bad deal that will force them to endure economic pain in the coming years.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nba-players-reject-latest -offer-owners-nba-leave-players-leave-article-1.973160#ixzz1d2oJInBO

Economic pain? Where the average salary is $5.1 million? Where millions of people are out of work, not by their own choosing, and losing homes and medical coverage? Fark them. My heart really bleeds knowing they might be faced with an average salary of under $5 million. You play a game and get paid for it.

I'm loving that this isn't even generating a resounding 'meh' around me. No one seems to be noticing or caring. NBA has been dealing out a crap product based on individuals rising above to take over a team sport. Which most of them couldn't do anyways if refs were rigidly calling ball handling rules on these guys. I don't hate basketball or the players by any means, but when you base the visibility and popularity of your sport on a small handful of players in a leauge full of teams dont be shocked when people can't be assed or interested to care when the rest of the world of sports carries on and provides us what we need. In other words, if they had gotten me invested in a team, team loyalty, team spirit, team play, team performance I may have noticed more. Caring about a handful of prima-donna superstars and their laregly unknown support staff of players doesn't do much for me in the IGAF department.

rudemix: I'm loving that this isn't even generating a resounding 'meh' around me. No one seems to be noticing or caring. NBA has been dealing out a crap product based on individuals rising above to take over a team sport. Which most of them couldn't do anyways if refs were rigidly calling ball handling rules on these guys. I don't hate basketball or the players by any means, but when you base the visibility and popularity of your sport on a small handful of players in a leauge full of teams dont be shocked when people can't be assed or interested to care when the rest of the world of sports carries on and provides us what we need. In other words, if they had gotten me invested in a team, team loyalty, team spirit, team play, team performance I may have noticed more. Caring about a handful of prima-donna superstars and their laregly unknown support staff of players doesn't do much for me in the IGAF department.

You mean the way that if a lower tier player sneezes near a star that's a foul? I'm half surprised they don't just have 3 players trying to get rebounds and 2 players scoring and stop bothering to run back and forth on the court.

fireside68: mikaloyd: Christmas came early for hockey fans. Bring on the hockey broadcasts!

You would think.

However, ESPN has found a litany of things that aren't hockey to broadcast.

Who said anything about ESPN? This means that Hockey games won't get pre-empted because of an NBA game. I live in a market with a winning hockey team and a basketball team that hasn't done anything in 30+ years and the basketball team gets preference (that has started to shift some in recent years, but not enough for me).

MayoSlather:
Fine so the owners are wrong and the highest paid group of sports athletes in human history are ....right? Should the players be forced to disclose what they make in endorsement deals as part of the % of bri since the league freely promotes them and gives them the worldwide name recognition? I mean that's the equivalent of what players believe they have the right to with the owners money.

That's a two way street though; the image of the players is used to advertise the league without specific reimbursement to the player. For instance, if Yao Ming suddenly becomes very popular in some place like China (weird, right?) all the merchandising and advertising revenue doesn't go disproportionately to him, it goes to the league and is then divided evenly among the players. After the league takes its share, of course.

I think most of the players would sign the agreement but the players union is standing in the way?

If I were an average player I'd be pretty upset with the top 1% that can afford to sit out the season and seem to be holding this whole thing up. I'd bet there are even a couple of the top 1% that can't afford to sit out the season...

I like to watch college basketball but don't watch any NBA. Could care less if it goes away

MBK: This really farking sucks.

I don't care what Farkers think, basketball is my second favorite sport to watch. After they had one of the most exciting seasons and post seasons, they are in a world of hurt financially once this thing gets resolved. And yet, they don't care.

I wholeheartedly agree. I love watching basketball, and I really wanted to see what would happen with Da Bulls this year, who hopefully got a fire lit under their asses after losing the way they did in the playoffs.

BTW, no one outside of Fark cares about hockey.

rudemix: I'm loving that this isn't even generating a resounding 'meh' around me. No one seems to be noticing or caring. NBA has been dealing out a crap product based on individuals rising above to take over a team sport. Which most of them couldn't do anyways if refs were rigidly calling ball handling rules on these guys. I don't hate basketball or the players by any means, but when you base the visibility and popularity of your sport on a small handful of players in a leauge full of teams dont be shocked when people can't be assed or interested to care when the rest of the world of sports carries on and provides us what we need. In other words, if they had gotten me invested in a team, team loyalty, team spirit, team play, team performance I may have noticed more. Caring about a handful of prima-donna superstars and their laregly unknown support staff of players doesn't do much for me in the IGAF department.

I'm not really sure how you can classify the highest ratings that the NBA has seen in a decade as a "crap product". I mean, if you don't like watching ONLY Lebron James and Dwyane Wade I understand that, but it would seem that the average NBA consumer seems pretty interested. Also, when has success in the NBA not been directly proportional to having the absolute best player on the court on your team*?

*offer not valid for 2003-2004 Lakers or most teams featuring Wilt Chamberlain

The Great EZE: Car_Ramrod: MBK: This really farking sucks.

I don't care what Farkers think, basketball is my second favorite sport to watch. After they had one of the most exciting seasons and post seasons, they are in a world of hurt financially once this thing gets resolved. And yet, they don't care.

I wholeheartedly agree. I love watching basketball, and I really wanted to see what would happen with Da Bulls this year, who hopefully got a fire lit under their asses after losing the way they did in the playoffs.

BTW, no one outside of Fark cares about hockey.

I've noticed an odd but totally understandable trend both here and on twitter that the people who shout the loudest about not caring about the NBA come from markets that have crappy NBA teams.

That's why I'm all for contraction--even though we're past the age of contraction. If that means we end up with only DAL, LAL, SA, and POR in the West and CHI, NY, BOS, and MIA in the East then fine. Surely nobody in the other 22 markets will care about losing a major sport, right?

For the life of me, I'll never understand the Seattle - OKC move.

I still believe this lockout is small market owner versus large market owner, the players are meer fodder. There is no incentive for a small market owner to field a team. Take out San Antonio and when was the last time a small market won the championship? Portland in the 70s? The structure of the NBA makes competing in a small market prohibitive. Even San Antonio can't sustain and is slowly crumbling due to age and the ability of the larger franchises (Scola to Houston) able to pilfer their talent. Until the NBA finds a system where there is somewhat of a level playing field, there is really no reason to play the games. The large market teams get all the talent and then they get the calls. The Knicks should be folded given how inept they have been with such advantages in place.

Right now, we've been given the ultimatum and our answer is, it's not acceptable to us."


Five bucks says they cave by Christmas.

Car_Ramrod: For the life of me, I'll never understand the Seattle - OKC move.

David Stern decided to make Seattle an example for other cities that don't give in to legalized extortion for new/improved facilities or other demands that equate to "You'll give us anything we ask for, for free, and damn well like it. Or Else"

The fact that Stern, who may very well be the most powerful, influential, and feared commissioner of the 4 major sports, basically pretended that there was "nothing he could do" in the situation was ridiculous.

The Bucks would likely be first against the wall, or one of the first.

As a Wisconsinite: go for it. Contract them, hand them to KC, hand them to Seattle, whatever. Maybe you could hand us the Coyotes or something to fill the gaps in the Bradley Center schedule.

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Mike_LowELL: Lost Thought 00: I hope the NBA season gets cancelled, and the league becomes poison to the major broadcasters when it does come back so that they can only get a TV deal with B.E.T.

Yup. No racism in this thread at all. No, sir.

What does the "B" in B.E.T. stand for? I'd say Lost Thought is merely making a correlative observation, not degrading a race.

This. Maybe if you could actually find a white player in the NBA it would be different

dripping with sarcasm: I still believe this lockout is small market owner versus large market owner, the players are meer fodder. There is no incentive for a small market owner to field a team. Take out San Antonio and when was the last time a small market won the championship? Portland in the 70s? The structure of the NBA makes competing in a small market prohibitive. Even San Antonio can't sustain and is slowly crumbling due to age and the ability of the larger franchises (Scola to Houston) able to pilfer their talent. Until the NBA finds a system where there is somewhat of a level playing field, there is really no reason to play the games. The large market teams get all the talent and then they get the calls. The Knicks should be folded given how inept they have been with such advantages in place.

I don't see the small market problem in the NBA.. at all.

Is Oklahoma city a large market? You can't say... never mind the Spurs. The Jazz were a top team for years. Is Houston a large market? Denver's had very good teams, Phoenix, Cleveland.

MugzyBrown: dripping with sarcasm: I still believe this lockout is small market owner versus large market owner, the players are meer fodder. There is no incentive for a small market owner to field a team. Take out San Antonio and when was the last time a small market won the championship? Portland in the 70s? The structure of the NBA makes competing in a small market prohibitive. Even San Antonio can't sustain and is slowly crumbling due to age and the ability of the larger franchises (Scola to Houston) able to pilfer their talent. Until the NBA finds a system where there is somewhat of a level playing field, there is really no reason to play the games. The large market teams get all the talent and then they get the calls. The Knicks should be folded given how inept they have been with such advantages in place.

I don't see the small market problem in the NBA.. at all.

Is Oklahoma city a large market? You can't say... never mind the Spurs. The Jazz were a top team for years. Is Houston a large market? Denver's had very good teams, Phoenix, Cleveland.

Houston is a large market. How many championships have those other teams won?

My point exactly

Joe_diGriz: Car_Ramrod: For the life of me, I'll never understand the Seattle - OKC move.

David Stern decided to make Seattle an example for other cities that don't give in to legalized extortion for new/improved facilities or other demands that equate to "You'll give us anything we ask for, for free, and damn well like it. Or Else"

The fact that Stern, who may very well be the most powerful, influential, and feared commissioner of the 4 major sports, basically pretended that there was "nothing he could do" in the situation was ridiculous.

But OKC? Really? That's like giving a team to Butte, Montana.