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(LiveLeak) Scary War in the Streets Occupy Oakland   (liveleak.com) divider line 192
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8185 clicks; posted to Video » on 05 Nov 2011 at 12:07 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-11-04 05:28:22 PM
This is what the anarchists wanted in the first place. The rest of the occupy crowd are too stupid to realize that they are being played as pawns. I love the comments from the guy that is surprised that the cops came in, whining "this is democracy?' Vandalism, arson and general lawlessness will get the cops to come and pay you a visit. That is how a civilized society maintains order. These stupid pawns haven't put two and two together yet.
 
2011-11-04 05:41:49 PM
NeoAnderthal: This is what the anarchists wanted in the first place. The rest of the occupy crowd are too stupid to realize that they are being played as pawns. I love the comments from the guy that is surprised that the cops came in, whining "this is democracy?' Vandalism, arson and general lawlessness will get the cops to come and pay you a visit. That is how a civilized society maintains order. These stupid pawns haven't put two and two together yet.

occupy Oakland immediately condemned the arson and vandalism. How is that "not getting it"?
 
2011-11-04 05:51:12 PM
Is there a best buy near there? I could use a new TV.

Seriously though, great way to furthur the "movement"....idiots
 
2011-11-04 05:55:46 PM
downpaymentblues: occupy Oakland immediately condemned the arson and vandalism. How is that "not getting it"?

Did that make it stop or go away? The video I saw showed the fires still burning as the cops started marching. Seriously, what the fark is your point anyway?
 
2011-11-04 06:00:50 PM
downpaymentblues: NeoAnderthal: This is what the anarchists wanted in the first place. The rest of the occupy crowd are too stupid to realize that they are being played as pawns. I love the comments from the guy that is surprised that the cops came in, whining "this is democracy?' Vandalism, arson and general lawlessness will get the cops to come and pay you a visit. That is how a civilized society maintains order. These stupid pawns haven't put two and two together yet.

occupy Oakland immediately condemned the arson and vandalism. How is that "not getting it"?


Let me ask you: if some police official "immediately condemned" any brutality taken against Occupy protesters, but did nothing else to prevent future brutality or redress the offenses already committed, would you be satisfied?
 
2011-11-04 06:04:30 PM
gerrymander: downpaymentblues: NeoAnderthal: This is what the anarchists wanted in the first place. The rest of the occupy crowd are too stupid to realize that they are being played as pawns. I love the comments from the guy that is surprised that the cops came in, whining "this is democracy?' Vandalism, arson and general lawlessness will get the cops to come and pay you a visit. That is how a civilized society maintains order. These stupid pawns haven't put two and two together yet.

occupy Oakland immediately condemned the arson and vandalism. How is that "not getting it"?

Let me ask you: if some police official "immediately condemned" any brutality taken against Occupy protesters, but did nothing else to prevent future brutality or redress the offenses already committed, would you be satisfied?


The police can suspend or fire their officers for wrong doing. What should the Occupy people do? Exactly.
 
2011-11-04 06:15:23 PM
NeoAnderthal: downpaymentblues: occupy Oakland immediately condemned the arson and vandalism. How is that "not getting it"?

Did that make it stop or go away? The video I saw showed the fires still burning as the cops started marching. Seriously, what the fark is your point anyway?


You ranted (pretty angrily) that they were stupid pawns and didn't know what was going on. I pointed out that they immediately condemned the actions. That (to me) indicates they do know what is going on and are distancing the protest from the people breaking the law.

I'm not sure why you are so angry. I'll just leave you to your anger.
 
2011-11-04 06:19:42 PM
SoCalSurfer: Is there a best buy near there? I could use a new TV.

Seriously though, great way to furthur the "movement"....idiots


It seems to me there are a lot of angry people (like you) just waiting for anything like this to happen so you can focus just on the small percentage of people breaking the law in this way. Then you paint the entire protest with a broad brush.

It is no different (to me) than the Tea Party protests where people picked out the racist signs or violent signs and gun carries and said "The Tea Party is nothing but violent racists", dismissing the underlying reason for the protests.

I really don't understand the anger and resentment against people protesting, or the need to belittle by focusing on 1% of the group.
 
2011-11-04 06:31:13 PM
downpaymentblues: I'm not sure why you are so angry. I'll just leave you to your anger.

So, you're projecting emotion that you assume to be there? I'm not angry. Think of an "I told you so" coupled with "I saw this coming a mile off" tone and you'll be much closer to where I am on this. Imagine if someone got into a tea party rally and started doing violent, criminal things to make the tea partiers look bad. Do you think the tea partiers would have stopped at a simple "stop doing this. why are you doing this?" Did you notice that those racist signs went away pretty quickly once they were shown? If these occupy groups are going to save any image of being peaceful protesters, they are going to have to repeatedly condemn the anarchists as being criminal thugs and not part of their group. They will then have to remove them from their ranks or this will just start all over again.

/btw, I infer a whiny tone in all of your comments. How accurate am I? Think about it.
 
2011-11-04 06:35:53 PM
If a protest turns violent and police give the warning to disperse, non-violent protesters have a legal duty to leave the area. If they refuse to leave, they are guilty of participating in the riot, whether they "condemn" the violence or not.
 
2011-11-04 06:37:15 PM
SkinnyHead: If a protest turns violent and police give the warning to disperse, non-violent protesters have a legal duty to leave the area. If they refuse to leave, they are guilty of participating in the riot, whether they "condemn" the violence or not.

This
 
2011-11-04 06:47:29 PM
NeoAnderthal: If these occupy groups are going to save any image of being peaceful protesters, they are going to have to repeatedly condemn the anarchists as being criminal thugs and not part of their group.

They are doing just that, even while the destruction is going on. Thanks for your concern.

Some protesters tried to calm the situation and discourage protesters from throwing rocks and bottles at police by chanting "Don't throw (crap)" and "The world is watching," but others continued to stand off with police and refused to leave despite police calling an "unlawful assembly" at midnight.

That struggle was evident even in the graffiti and signs that appeared at the epicenter of the movement. On one wall, someone had painted, "not until the last capitalist is hung with the entrails of the last bureaucrat." Next to it was a red heart with this message: "Nonviolence works better."

At the Whole Foods at 27th and Bay streets, a splinter group wearing black clothing and face masks threw paint balls, left graffiti, tore up a fence and broke a window before the larger crowd turned on them and forced them to stop.
 
2011-11-04 06:48:25 PM
ooops. Forgot to cite the quotes. From here: http://www.mercurynews.com/occupy-oakland/ci_19255290
 
2011-11-04 06:50:34 PM
Soup4Bonnie: NeoAnderthal: If these occupy groups are going to save any image of being peaceful protesters, they are going to have to repeatedly condemn the anarchists as being criminal thugs and not part of their group.

They are doing just that, even while the destruction is going on. Thanks for your concern.

Some protesters tried to calm the situation and discourage protesters from throwing rocks and bottles at police by chanting "Don't throw (crap)" and "The world is watching," but others continued to stand off with police and refused to leave despite police calling an "unlawful assembly" at midnight.

That struggle was evident even in the graffiti and signs that appeared at the epicenter of the movement. On one wall, someone had painted, "not until the last capitalist is hung with the entrails of the last bureaucrat." Next to it was a red heart with this message: "Nonviolence works better."

At the Whole Foods at 27th and Bay streets, a splinter group wearing black clothing and face masks threw paint balls, left graffiti, tore up a fence and broke a window before the larger crowd turned on them and forced them to stop.


Leave the area then while the cops take care of the asshats. Lord knows they(Occupy Oakland) aren't taking care of the asshats themselves.
 
2011-11-04 06:52:06 PM
Soup4Bonnie: At the Whole Foods at 27th and Bay streets, a splinter group wearing black clothing and face masks threw paint balls, left graffiti, tore up a fence and broke a window before the larger crowd turned on them and forced them to stop.

This is what I've been wondering. Are these similar to those in Egypt that were paid to cause disruption? Possibly plain clothes police officers trying to cause problems from within?
 
2011-11-04 06:59:11 PM
Nadie_AZ: This is what I've been wondering. Are these similar to those in Egypt that were paid to cause disruption? Possibly plain clothes police officers trying to cause problems from within?

I don't know. I spent 20 years living in the Bay Area and I was really surprised at the number of anarchists there were. Like any large group, I'm sure there are some from column A and some from column B.

muck4doo: Leave the area then while the cops take care of the asshats. Lord knows they(Occupy Oakland) aren't taking care of the asshats themselves.

I don't think they will leave. That's sort of the point of the word "Occupy" in their movement. They are trying to police their own actions, as shown in my post above. There are always a few loose cannons, even on the OPD as Scott Olsen a former Marine will tell testify.
 
2011-11-04 07:02:36 PM
What was the point of shutting down the Port of Oakland, anyway? That was as stupid as setting fire to trash in the street.


Idiocracy becomes more of a documentary every day.
 
2011-11-04 07:09:56 PM
DarthBrooks: What was the point of shutting down the Port of Oakland, anyway?

It was a general strike in response to police brutality. It is strange that you would ask such an easily answered question.
 
2011-11-04 07:11:24 PM
Ah raider fans....
 
2011-11-04 07:37:29 PM
Soup4Bonnie: DarthBrooks: What was the point of shutting down the Port of Oakland, anyway?

It was a general strike in response to police brutality. It is strange that you would ask such an easily answered question.


One has to ask questions to gain answers.
 
2011-11-04 07:52:39 PM
NeoAnderthal: This is what the anarchists wanted in the first place. The rest of the occupy crowd are too stupid to realize that they are being played as pawns. I love the comments from the guy that is surprised that the cops came in, whining "this is democracy?' Vandalism, arson and general lawlessness will get the cops to come and pay you a visit. That is how a civilized society maintains order. These stupid pawns haven't put two and two together yet.

What people don't seem to have put two and two together over is the fact that those "anarchists" are wearing police-issue boots, and are in fact police officers pretending to be anarchists. It's happened over and over, with one of the most obvious cases being the Haymarket protest. Canada got in trouble when they sent in the police to instigate a riot so they could shut it down after the G20 protests.
 
2011-11-04 07:53:41 PM
Just FYI, the term "Black Bloc" means police instigators.
 
2011-11-04 08:02:53 PM
sheilanagig: NeoAnderthal: This is what the anarchists wanted in the first place. The rest of the occupy crowd are too stupid to realize that they are being played as pawns. I love the comments from the guy that is surprised that the cops came in, whining "this is democracy?' Vandalism, arson and general lawlessness will get the cops to come and pay you a visit. That is how a civilized society maintains order. These stupid pawns haven't put two and two together yet.

What people don't seem to have put two and two together over is the fact that those "anarchists" are wearing police-issue boots, and are in fact police officers pretending to be anarchists. It's happened over and over, with one of the most obvious cases being the Haymarket protest. Canada got in trouble when they sent in the police to instigate a riot so they could shut it down after the G20 protests.


This, likely. That's kind of the point of agents provocateur in these situations - to provide a pretext for police action. I'm not saying that's definitely the case here, but given the recent outcry against the use of force on non-violent protestors by Oakland cops, sending in a small group of "anarchists" that would justify further use of force is plausible. It's been done in other recent protests, as was pointed out, so it's not unreasonable to suspect it here, too.
 
2011-11-04 08:04:49 PM
Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming.
 
2011-11-04 08:22:35 PM
Soup4Bonnie: DarthBrooks: What was the point of shutting down the Port of Oakland, anyway?

It was a general strike in response to police brutality. It is strange that you would ask such an easily answered question.


So, the proper response to an act of police brutality is to attack the dockyards.

It's obvious that problem-solving is not part of the Occupy movement's repertoire.
 
2011-11-04 09:28:01 PM
Hasn't it been fairly well established that this Black Bloc group is actually police in anarchist garb?

Like they say, it's not a riot until the riot police show up...
 
2011-11-04 09:43:23 PM
ksdanj: Hasn't it been fairly well established that this Black Bloc group is actually police in anarchist garb?

I wouldn't be surprised, but I haven't read anything about this being the case. Link?
 
2011-11-04 09:46:52 PM
ksdanj: Hasn't it been fairly well established that this Black Bloc group is actually police in anarchist garb?

riiiiiight.
 
2011-11-04 10:02:13 PM
NeoAnderthal: If these occupy groups are going to save any image of being peaceful protesters, they are going to have to repeatedly condemn the anarchists as being criminal thugs and not part of their group. They will then have to remove them from their ranks or this will just start all over again.

The Occupy movement *is* anarchist. But nonviolent anarchist. That's a big difference. Anarchism isn't just destruction and smashing sh*t. Those aren't real anarchists. Not in the political sense. OWS, however, is.

It's hard to "remove" people who show up to such protests. How do you differentiate between a nonviolent protester and someone who's there to cause chaos and smash sh*t?

The people who are involved in the organization of the various Occupy protests have denounced the violence and repeated a commitment to non-violent protests.
 
2011-11-04 10:24:05 PM
Nice to see the usual fascist apologists in here. Shooting an innocent man in the face with a tear gas canister for protesting is still OK, right?
 
2011-11-04 10:24:55 PM
GAT_00: Nice to see the usual fascist apologists in here. Shooting an innocent man in the face with a tear gas canister for protesting is still OK, right?

Oh, was that the subject of the article?
 
2011-11-04 10:33:09 PM
muck4doo: GAT_00: Nice to see the usual fascist apologists in here. Shooting an innocent man in the face with a tear gas canister for protesting is still OK, right?

Oh, was that the subject of the article?


Nope.
 
2011-11-04 10:41:01 PM
GAT_00: Nice to see the usual fascist apologists in here. Shooting an innocent man in the face with a tear gas canister for protesting is still OK, right?

Nope. It sure as hell isn't right.
But that also doesn't make it justifiable to go around smashing stores and sh*t.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

/(Insert joke about three lefts here.)
 
2011-11-04 10:45:54 PM
shivashakti: The Occupy movement *is* anarchist. But nonviolent anarchist.

Its not anarchist in the conventional useage of the word, but technically any call against a rule or law is anarchist.

an·ar·chist
[an-er-kist] Show IPA
noun
1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.

OWS? Nope.

2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
They're the polar opposite of this

3. a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom.
This describes OWS, but I don't think most people think of this definition when someone calls someone or something anarchist.
 
2011-11-04 10:59:27 PM
violentsalvation: muck4doo: GAT_00: Nice to see the usual fascist apologists in here. Shooting an innocent man in the face with a tear gas canister for protesting is still OK, right?

Oh, was that the subject of the article?

Nope.


For the people in here condemning arson who did not condemn shooting an innocent man means they are worthless.
 
2011-11-04 11:03:24 PM
Nadie_AZ: Soup4Bonnie: At the Whole Foods at 27th and Bay streets, a splinter group wearing black clothing and face masks threw paint balls, left graffiti, tore up a fence and broke a window before the larger crowd turned on them and forced them to stop.

This is what I've been wondering. Are these similar to those in Egypt that were paid to cause disruption? Possibly plain clothes police officers trying to cause problems from within?


These were assholes, and mostly skinny young kids visibly different from the cops. There was a rumor that Whole Foods would not let its workers strike. That was false and Whole Foods was totally goody-goody and politically correct as usual. In any case, few if any Whole Foods workers left and the place was open for business which made the general strike people angry. This is a really important detail to keep in mind: Whole Foods was targeted because people were working. How messed up is that?
 
2011-11-04 11:03:46 PM
GAT_00: violentsalvation: muck4doo: GAT_00: Nice to see the usual fascist apologists in here. Shooting an innocent man in the face with a tear gas canister for protesting is still OK, right?

Oh, was that the subject of the article?

Nope.

For the people in here condemning arson who did not condemn shooting an innocent man means they are worthless.


Because it's like, impossible to condemn both, right? One or the other?
 
2011-11-04 11:05:52 PM
GAT_00: violentsalvation: muck4doo: GAT_00: Nice to see the usual fascist apologists in here. Shooting an innocent man in the face with a tear gas canister for protesting is still OK, right?

Oh, was that the subject of the article?

Nope.

For the people in here condemning arson who did not condemn shooting an innocent man means they are worthless.


By the way, do you condemn the arson?
 
2011-11-04 11:31:34 PM
The Oakland PD set this in motion a week ago by completely overreacting. Well actually the mayor of Oakland set this in motion. It all falls squarely on her shoulders. Let the people protest a week ago, this stuff doesn't happen. You push people, they will push back.
 
2011-11-04 11:36:45 PM
WhyteRaven74: The Oakland PD set this in motion a week ago by completely overreacting. Well actually the mayor of Oakland set this in motion. It all falls squarely on her shoulders. Let the people protest a week ago, this stuff doesn't happen. You push people, they will push back.

Police always overreact in Oakland. And the people are constantly pushed to the precipice. Sh*t is always ready to jump off in Oakland. The cops have a fine line to toe but they always stumble over it like useless drunken idiots.
 
2011-11-04 11:39:44 PM
violentsalvation: Sh*t is always ready to jump off in Oakland

I remember thinking what the hell is going on when a mayor decides the proper way to handle people protesting is police in riot gear. First off telling people they couldn't protest is really dumb, then sending out police in riot gear, is even dumber, then not making amends when the police completely screw up, is even dumber.
 
2011-11-04 11:43:01 PM
War in the streets of Oakland...

The whistles go "WHOOOO WHOOOO"

/you should be up cooking breakfast for someone
 
2011-11-04 11:48:13 PM
WhyteRaven74: then not making amends when the police completely screw up, is even dumber.

Out of curiosity, what would proper amends have been? I respect you very much here, and you know that, so I'm not asking that to be a jack ass. Seriously though, what would the proper amends have been for that, and do you think it would have pleased the whole crowd? Put yourself in the place of the Oakland mayor.
 
2011-11-04 11:49:01 PM
American Century For a New American Century is reporting that ACORN has taken to full military regalia and is harassing all passersby to show their voter registration cards. This is not going to end well.
 
2011-11-04 11:54:47 PM
WhyteRaven74: violentsalvation: Sh*t is always ready to jump off in Oakland

I remember thinking what the hell is going on when a mayor decides the proper way to handle people protesting is police in riot gear. First off telling people they couldn't protest is really dumb, then sending out police in riot gear, is even dumber, then not making amends when the police completely screw up, is even dumber.


The riot gear was way over the top, even for Oakland.
 
2011-11-04 11:55:03 PM
I just hope protesters don't start wearing police/riot gear that matches the real guys.

That would be terribly awkward and confusing.
 
2011-11-04 11:59:03 PM
I wonder what the power level of this currently is if measured in milliWatts?
 
2011-11-05 12:00:16 AM
Godscrack: I just hope protesters don't start wearing police/riot gear that matches the real guys.

That would be terribly awkward and confusing.


I hope you're not implying the protesters should impersonate the cops.
 
2011-11-05 12:07:25 AM
Hm. Anyone know any more than the basic MSDS on how much silver nitrate irritates the eyes? The notion wandered through my noggin of OWS protesters marking troublemakers with a quick spray of Election Ink aerosol to the face, but I expect there's difficulties besides simple logistic supply and dubious legality.
 
2011-11-05 12:08:26 AM
muck4doo: Godscrack: I just hope protesters don't start wearing police/riot gear that matches the real guys.

That would be terribly awkward and confusing.

I hope you're not implying the protesters should impersonate the cops.


Yes. That would be bad. And illegal.
 
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