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(The Michigan Messenger)   Michigan GOP: "Legalize it". And by "it", they mean bullying gay students   (michiganmessenger.com) divider line 311
    More: Sick, GOP, Michigan, Republican Left, Trojan horse, family association, homosexual agenda, charter schools, Michigan Senate  
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6710 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Nov 2011 at 3:27 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-11-03 04:37:49 PM  

Gunny Highway: Need Help Soonish: timujin: Diogenes: Cool! I have a moral conviction to kick gingers.

Bring it.

How you doin???

This thread has become the Perfect shiat Storm


Are you suppressing my god given moral right to hit on gingers???
 
2011-11-03 04:38:05 PM  
Additionally I would like to state John Gleason is the biggest douche in the world. He cost me and several other people alot of money, then the coward literally snuck out the back door so he didnt have to talk to me.
 
2011-11-03 04:39:04 PM  
www.toddsolondz.com

JUSTICE FOR WIENERDOG!
 
2011-11-03 04:39:51 PM  

meat0918: More upset at the regulation of speech when there are already laws on the books that can be used to address bullying problems.


The existing laws that deal with harassment, assault, and battery are designed to be applied to adults. It would be unreasonable to simply apply the same laws to children.
 
2011-11-03 04:40:00 PM  

lennavan: Philip Francis Queeg: A. Would you consider that behavior 'bullying"?

Yes.

Philip Francis Queeg: B. Do you think that behavior would rise to the level of "harassment" under standard harassment laws?

No. It's a kid being a stupid kid. Kids are gonna do stupid shiat.

Philip Francis Queeg: C. Would the language in question prevent the school from acting to prevent Child A from continuing with that behavior?

Why the hell do we need to insert laws and cops and courts into schools. The school should deal with it.



Because the laws are already in schools, and certainly aren't being introduced by this law.

Because what's going to happen now when the school tries to stop Child A from saying that, is that the helicopter parent of Child A is going throw a hissy fit that the School is violating Child A's rights, and that it's all part of the liberal anti-christian agenda. If the school doesn't back down, Helicopter Parent A is going to lawyer up and go to court arguing that the school has no legal basis for acting against Precious Snowflake A.
 
2011-11-03 04:40:13 PM  

skullkrusher: [www.toddsolondz.com image 240x360]

JUSTICE FOR WIENERDOG!


Wiki just informed me that the actress who played her is a lesbian. Even more appropriate than I originally thought.
 
2011-11-03 04:40:18 PM  

sprawl15: I think you misunderstand me.


I did. Thanks for explaining.
 
2011-11-03 04:40:25 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: I cannot think of a single issue the GOP is correct about. They are wrong about everything, and many times shamelessly so.


I have the right to not pay taxes to support your bullshiat

Fark you and everything you believe in.
 
2011-11-03 04:40:39 PM  
Bullying is a new thing. It's directed solely at gays and nobody else. This is what liberals actually believe.
 
2011-11-03 04:40:40 PM  

CanisNoir: I'm guessing that the school system and parents would become quite involved. You're scenario presupposes that the teachers won't step in, the parents aren't aware of whats going on and that the kid has no friends who assist or stick up for them. Then again, the scenario you paint only happens a fraction of a fraction of the time. We should not be legislating for an entire state based upon a scenario that will most likely never occur.


You have missed the point. This legislation creates the scenario. This legislation specifically designates this behaviour as not bullying, a loophole which means if those parents and friends get involved now, they are interfering with an individual who can claim their behaviour is legally acceptable by statute and not harassment, and that therefore attempting to interfere with it could itself be considered harassment. It gives a legal cover for douchebaggery and social intimidation tactics. It subverts the intent of the original legislation almost completely by in effect designating a form of harassment as legally exempt that would have been covered under previous harassment statutes that did not consider the type of harassment beyond its effects.

Dancin_In_Anson: KiltedBastich: What happens when you make that same statement every day? Maybe twice, three times a day? What happens when a dozen or twenty other people are also saying it to that person, in the same polite tones?

Asked.

KiltedBastich: it is already protected by free speech.

And answered.


And here we have an idiot engaging in exactly the kind of petty legalistic defense of harassment I was talking about. Thank you for so effectively demonstrating that the problem I was mentioning isn't a hypothetical.

Here's a hint for you, o derpful one, the kind of behaviour I was describing would be considered harassment nearly everywhere currently, with consequences for that ranging from criminal charges to civil suits, because currently freedom to say what you like does not grant immunity from the consequences of that speech. Harassment laws currently don't look at the type of speech made, only the consequences. This legislation is trying to change that, and apparently you are exactly the kind of asshole who would take that as license to harass those you disagree with as long as you can remain within the boundaries drawn by statute.
 
2011-11-03 04:42:04 PM  
Laws are for crimes, its not a crime to be a bully

Deal with it
 
2011-11-03 04:42:15 PM  

meat0918: Issue every bullied child one of these.

[www.thewolfhouse.net image 570x359]

Bullying will cease


I fail to see how providing bullies with young girls will cause people to stop bullying.
 
2011-11-03 04:42:35 PM  

Putter: lennavan: Why the hell do we need to insert laws and cops and courts into schools. The school should deal with it.
Hm...

Well given amount of hardwork gay kids are putting into being suicide world champions, I'd say the schools aren't dealing with it and that's what prompted the legislation.

That's just me though.


I think you make a good point. Schools are absolutely the only place kids get bullied. What's more, schools are definitely the only influence on a kids life. Therefore the correct solution is to limit first amendment speech. Good point you have here.
 
2011-11-03 04:43:25 PM  

sprawl15: meat0918: Issue every bullied child one of these.

[www.thewolfhouse.net image 570x359]

Bullying will cease

I fail to see how providing bullies with young girls will cause people to stop bullying.


Haven't seen "Let the Right One In", have you?
 
2011-11-03 04:44:09 PM  
"This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian."
---------------------------------------------------------------

So could I, as an atheist, go up to christian and call them a cocksucking jesus-prick? Somehow I get the feeling that we're going to have bullying like this and they'll amend it again.
 
2011-11-03 04:44:10 PM  

goorange: Laws are for crimes, its not a crime to be a bully

Deal with it


well this legislation wouldn't outlaw bullying. It would require schools to create policies to combat bullying.
 
2011-11-03 04:44:31 PM  

goorange: Laws are for crimes, its not a crime to be a bully

Deal with it


Course it's all fun and games until the gay kid is found hung in his closet by a belt.
 
2011-11-03 04:44:48 PM  

meat0918: sprawl15: meat0918: Issue every bullied child one of these.

[www.thewolfhouse.net image 570x359]

Bullying will cease

I fail to see how providing bullies with young girls will cause people to stop bullying.

Haven't seen "Let the Right One In", have you?


No, I'm not into Pokemon.
 
2011-11-03 04:45:23 PM  
Bullying is now protected speech, like money.
 
2011-11-03 04:46:04 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Because the laws are already in schools, and certainly aren't being introduced by this law.


Wait, so if I murder someone in school, the law applies and I might get in trouble?! Apparently I was unaware of this!

Philip Francis Queeg: Helicopter Parent A is going to lawyer up and go to court arguing that the school has no legal basis for acting against Precious Snowflake A.


Really? How often do you think these lawsuits are actually going to occur? And how successful do you think they really will be?

Seriously, you're whole argument here is just plain dishonest. Care to try again, with honesty this time?
 
2011-11-03 04:46:23 PM  

The Dog Ate The Constitution: Bullying is a new thing. It's directed solely at gays and nobody else. This is what liberals actually believe.


No, they just want a new Nanny State program to deal with it............
 
2011-11-03 04:46:26 PM  
"This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian."

Um, that sounds more like a desperate attempt to make it seem like the law doesn't violate the first amendment (which, well, it does, pretty hard) than a loophole to allow assault. It'll allow the law to survive maybe an extra year before a court inevitably strikes it down.

//If it crosses the line into actual abusive behavior-- ostracism, assault, constant streams of invective, whatever-- there are already laws against all of that. But people are allowed to not like you, and allowed to be dicks about it short of the aforementioned. Going full Orwell is not cool regardless of your noble intention to save teenage shiats from each other.
 
2011-11-03 04:46:32 PM  

kapaso: Bullying is now protected speech, like money.


Taking someone's lunch money is now covered under Citizens United.
 
2011-11-03 04:46:43 PM  

lennavan: Putter: lennavan: Why the hell do we need to insert laws and cops and courts into schools. The school should deal with it.
Hm...

Well given amount of hardwork gay kids are putting into being suicide world champions, I'd say the schools aren't dealing with it and that's what prompted the legislation.

That's just me though.

I think you make a good point. Schools are absolutely the only place kids get bullied. What's more, schools are definitely the only influence on a kids life. Therefore the correct solution is to limit first amendment speech. Good point you have here.


I'd say most bullying happens at school since that's where kids are around their peers for most of the day. You call your teacher a "fat dyke" you're probably going to be disciplined. Is that an unacceptable limit on the first amendment?
 
2011-11-03 04:47:06 PM  

goorange: AdolfOliverPanties: I cannot think of a single issue the GOP is correct about. They are wrong about everything, and many times shamelessly so.

I have the right to not pay taxes to support your bullshiat

Fark you and everything you believe in.


Try only paying the taxes you want to. I'm sure it will work out as well as the rest of the conservative agenda.
 
2011-11-03 04:47:27 PM  

sprawl15: meat0918: sprawl15: meat0918: Issue every bullied child one of these.

[www.thewolfhouse.net image 570x359]

Bullying will cease

I fail to see how providing bullies with young girls will cause people to stop bullying.

Haven't seen "Let the Right One In", have you?

No, I'm not into Pokemon.


I didn't know Pokemon was Swedish.
 
2011-11-03 04:47:34 PM  

WhyteRaven74: At the high school level there's an easy solution for bullying, arrest for assault or assault and battery where appropriate and immediate expulsion from school.


yea... the Government can fix everything... go for it
 
2011-11-03 04:47:36 PM  

WizardofToast: goorange: Laws are for crimes, its not a crime to be a bully

Deal with it

Course it's all fun and games until the gay kid is found hung in his closet by a belt.


I don't think you fully comprehend how low the GOP is these days. They know bullying can and has lead to many suicides among gay teens. They want to keep it that way.
 
2011-11-03 04:47:58 PM  

jake3988: "This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian."
---------------------------------------------------------------

So could I, as an atheist, go up to christian and call them a cocksucking jesus-prick? Somehow I get the feeling that we're going to have bullying like this and they'll amend it again.


Atheists have neither religious beliefs, nor moral convictions, so it wouldn't be protected.
 
2011-11-03 04:49:19 PM  

sprawl15: meat0918: sprawl15: meat0918: Issue every bullied child one of these.

[www.thewolfhouse.net image 570x359]

Bullying will cease

I fail to see how providing bullies with young girls will cause people to stop bullying.

Haven't seen "Let the Right One In", have you?

No, I'm not into Pokemon.


Hint, she's a very protective vampire.
 
2011-11-03 04:49:24 PM  
Don't you guys see, this applies equally to gay students. It would in fact prohibit any administrator from stopping a child acting gay. So if a kid comes in wearing a t-shirt that says, "I like to touch other boy's penis'" then it is perfectly legal. \

I would say that your sexual preference is a strongly held moral conviction....

//Only somewhat serious....this is a travesty...
 
2011-11-03 04:50:20 PM  

meat0918: sprawl15: meat0918: sprawl15: meat0918: Issue every bullied child one of these.

[www.thewolfhouse.net image 570x359]

Bullying will cease

I fail to see how providing bullies with young girls will cause people to stop bullying.

Haven't seen "Let the Right One In", have you?

No, I'm not into Pokemon.

Hint, she's a very protective vampire.


So providing bullies with harems of underage women is OK if they are vampires?
 
2011-11-03 04:50:55 PM  
What I'm getting from this thread is that people seem to think that enforcing existing laws that cover the illegal facets of bullying should be sufficient protection.

If you jackasses really believe that hauling little kids to court is the way to go, then by all means please proceed. It will be a wondrously efficient use of time and money.
 
2011-11-03 04:57:57 PM  

lennavan: Philip Francis Queeg: Because the laws are already in schools, and certainly aren't being introduced by this law.

Wait, so if I murder someone in school, the law applies and I might get in trouble?! Apparently I was unaware of this!

Philip Francis Queeg: Helicopter Parent A is going to lawyer up and go to court arguing that the school has no legal basis for acting against Precious Snowflake A.

Really? How often do you think these lawsuits are actually going to occur? And how successful do you think they really will be?

Seriously, you're whole argument here is just plain dishonest. Care to try again, with honesty this time?


They happen. There's this website that has links to stories about them fairly regularly. You might have heard of it. It's called Fark.

Parents Defend 12-Year-Old's Bullying, Sue School (new window)

Parents sue school over discipline (new window)

It doesn't take a vast number of suits to make a difference.
 
2011-11-03 04:58:00 PM  

sprawl15: So providing bullies with harems of underage women is OK if they are vampires?


No, the vampires aren't for the bullies - they're for the bullied kids.
 
2011-11-03 04:59:46 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: Seeing as this legislation can't possibly supersede one's 1st Amendment rights, why would it need to be inserted in the legislation at all?


But it can. We've already seen an erosion of 1st Amendment rights in schools, especially on the religious and political fronts. What makes you think this law will be any different from any other piece of legislation that has been passed to protect our children from themselves?
 
2011-11-03 05:00:13 PM  

Biological Ali: sprawl15: So providing bullies with harems of underage women is OK if they are vampires?

No, the vampires aren't for the bullies - they're for the bullied kids.


We have enough whiny sparkly vampires without these kinds of shenanigans.
 
2011-11-03 05:00:26 PM  
Color me unsurprised by this. Republicans do, after all, have a fine tradition of protecting bullies. At this point, it's kind of their raison d'être.
 
2011-11-03 05:02:15 PM  

sprawl15: Biological Ali: sprawl15: So providing bullies with harems of underage women is OK if they are vampires?

No, the vampires aren't for the bullies - they're for the bullied kids.

We have enough whiny sparkly vampires without these kinds of shenanigans.


She's the burst into flames when exposed to sunlight, rip your throat out kind of vamp though. Which may be a problem unless you live in Sweden where it is dark for much longer.
 
2011-11-03 05:02:21 PM  
Republicans. Not bigots, but number one WITH bigots.

Ahh, who am I kidding? They're bigots.
 
2011-11-03 05:02:24 PM  

DrBenway: Color me unsurprised by this. Republicans do, after all, have a fine tradition of protecting bullies. At this point, it's kind of their raison d'être.


so have the Gov protect them? Form a Nanny State?
 
2011-11-03 05:03:37 PM  

KiltedBastich: And here we have an idiot engaging in exactly the kind of petty legalistic defense of harassment I was talking about. Thank you for so effectively demonstrating that the problem I was mentioning isn't a hypothetical.


I'll give you a break since you are not a native American and therefore don't understand the concept of the absolute right to say whatever the hell you want regardless of how it might hurt someones feelings or sensibilities.
 
2011-11-03 05:04:15 PM  
www.cartoonesque.com

We're talking about lots of stuff.
 
2011-11-03 05:06:43 PM  

meat0918: sprawl15: Biological Ali: sprawl15: So providing bullies with harems of underage women is OK if they are vampires?

No, the vampires aren't for the bullies - they're for the bullied kids.

We have enough whiny sparkly vampires without these kinds of shenanigans.

She's the burst into flames when exposed to sunlight, rip your throat out kind of vamp though. Which may be a problem unless you live in Sweden where it is dark for much longer.


Ah. I approve of this, then. If you're bullied, have the balls to stand up to your bully or we'll lock you in the boo box with a creature that wants to suck all your blood out and may burst into flames if that takes too long to accomplish.
 
2011-11-03 05:08:27 PM  
I'm sure the sort of person who thinks there should be a religious exception to bullying is the kind of person who's like the former assistant pastor at my old church who is constantly blogging about showing love to gay people but who in reality treated my (straight) brother like crap because he thought my brother dressed gay.
 
2011-11-03 05:09:21 PM  

GhostFish: What I'm getting from this thread is that people seem to think that enforcing existing laws that cover the illegal facets of bullying should be sufficient protection.

If you jackasses really believe that hauling little kids to court is the way to go, then by all means please proceed. It will be a wondrously efficient use of time and money.


You can't argue that bullying causes death (the whole motivation for this is that it "causes" suicide) and then argue that it's not serious enough to get juvie involved. That would be the most retardedly inconsistent and arbitrarily self-serving set of priorities since my last conversation with a creationist.

If it's not worth getting the legal system involved, then why are you supporting a law addressing it, exactly?
 
2011-11-03 05:10:27 PM  
As a Michigander, can I request Fark sign this petition to the governor to get him to veto this? (new window)?

Every time someone signs, two lesbians kiss.

i3.squidoocdn.com
 
2011-11-03 05:10:56 PM  

KiltedBastich: This legislation specifically designates this behaviour as not bullying, a loophole which means if those parents and friends get involved now, they are interfering with an individual who can claim their behaviour is legally acceptable by statute and not harassment, and that therefore attempting to interfere with it could itself be considered harassment.


Legally acceptable and socially acceptable are two very different things, and this insert does not stop teachers, parents or friends from stepping in and correcting the bully in his actions by letting him know that they are not socially acceptable. True, there can be abuses on both sides of this debate, you might have some bullies escape punishment by claiming religious freedom, and like wise, you might have over reactionary school systems that punish kids for simply speaking their mind without intent to bully. Personally I'd rather err on the side of free speech over criminalizing it.
 
2011-11-03 05:13:03 PM  

Jim_Callahan: GhostFish: What I'm getting from this thread is that people seem to think that enforcing existing laws that cover the illegal facets of bullying should be sufficient protection.

If you jackasses really believe that hauling little kids to court is the way to go, then by all means please proceed. It will be a wondrously efficient use of time and money.

You can't argue that bullying causes death (the whole motivation for this is that it "causes" suicide) and then argue that it's not serious enough to get juvie involved. That would be the most retardedly inconsistent and arbitrarily self-serving set of priorities since my last conversation with a creationist.

If it's not worth getting the legal system involved, then why are you supporting a law addressing it, exactly?


The law empowers school districts to deal with bullying.
 
2011-11-03 05:14:34 PM  
Michigan's motto is Si Quæris Peninsulam Amœnam Circumspice, "if you seek a pleasant peninsula, look around you." With this piece of shiat bill, they should really reconsider modifiying the motto... Any suggestions?
 
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