I was confused until I saw that they lumped crossovers in with SUVs and trucks.

To use Chevy as an example:
I can't imagine a person going from driving a Suburban to one of the new Sonics, it's just too radical a change. I could, however, see them going for an Equinox which still has about 50% better fuel economy. It's still counted as a "light truck" but ultimately it boils down to MPGs.

And I grew up around the only family I EVER met that needed an Excursion. Farm family with 8 kids.

I think 99% of America could get by on Fiat 500s and Minis and VW Polos. A small group could run trucks and everyone else could rent them.

It's in the government's best interests to keep the auto manufacturers in business, mainly that if in the event of a real war, open and functioning factories can be quickly converted into places to make buttloads of tanks.

Bunnyhat: Exposed how?

There was a few months of lowered sells, gas went under $4 dollars again and the idiot consumer base went right back to buying trucks and SUVs.

At the companies will chase after that risky profit knowing the government will step in and save them if things turn sour again. Privileged companies profit, tax payers lose. Exactly the kind of behavior bailouts create.

There are a lot of people who need trucks and there are lot more who have trucks but frankly don't need them.

I grow up in a redneck town, which is actually considered to be a city by the government of Canada which boggles my mind. Anyway, growing up here a pick up was considered to be a right of passage in High School and then moving out of High School it became a status symbol. You drive around my town and there is a pickup or two almost every other driveway. The majority of them are not needed as my town is largely populated by factory workers.

But they continue to buy the oversized dick extensions and then complain the loudest about the gas prices.

skinnycatullus: GaryPDX: Ya know, I can see the beef over SUV's but Trucks? You do know millions of people absolutely need a truck to make a living? (myself included) or should they load up their tools in the back of Prius?

You realize the headline is about "relying too heavily on trucks" and not the fact that some trucks are sold, right? Trucks are necessary. My next vehicle will be a truck. But when truck sales make up such a large part of your business that a spike in gas prices threatens to bankrupt you, that's a problem.

So they should be scaling back on their attention to a market segment that does well for them (trucks) in order to expand a their offerings to a market in which they're constantly sucking hind teat to the Japanese makers?

I'd say the smarter thing to do would be to expand and improve their small truck offerings, and maybe offer some 4-cyl diesels. I'd love a diesel Ranger.

Humean_Nature: I spend a lot of time in the UK, and you know what general contractors and plumbers and such over there use? Vans. Tiny vans with tiny engines that get better mileage than most American cars.

Like a Ford Transit Connect? That's now available in the US, and I see a good number of them trundling about. I used to work for a home remodeling company, and yeah we needed some larger trucks to pull trailers full of shutters and windows, but I know that 50% of our service calls could be handled by someone in a Transit, Minivan, or even just a station wagon. But we had F150s and Econolines, so that's what we used.

The way I figure it, you can tell when someone has a big-ass, off-road capable truck that they don't need: it is always spotless and has no dings. Work trucks always have dings... pull a ladder on/off the roof 10x a day for a week and try to not ding the body once. Take your truck into the woods hunting regularly and manage to avoid brush scrapes. 5500 lb, gleaming commuter trucks, on the other hand... those are just for show.

Upside: their poor gas mileage is covering their part of the highway fund that high-efficiency drivers are shorting.

I'm not concerned. If they go out of business, that's capitalism in action. That's the invisible hand at work.

What's with Gary asking for the government to save the trucks? What a goddamned spineless socialist.

How about looking at sales and profit margins?

1. Americans are still buying big trucks.
2. Manufacturers make all their money on trucks.

Until (1) changes, don't expect manufacturers to move away from making trucks.

Or are they saying manufacturers should make cars hoping that people will suddenly shift behaviors and buy them? That sounds stupid.

That article is stupid yet pointless. Sales of ALL vehicles dropped in 2008, not just trucks.

The price of gas had nothing to do with it.

I don't and won't buy an American made vehicle. I worked for all three of the companies. I see what goes on there from the inside.

I drive a Toyota

JesseL: I'd say the smarter thing to do would be to expand and improve their small truck offerings, and maybe offer some 4-cyl diesels. I'd love a diesel Ranger.

Ranger and Durango are dead models next year, FYI. Don' t know about the sh*tty Canyon/Colorado. That may be it for small pickups in the US, but there's always a Frontier or Tacoma.

Frank and Beans: I don't and won't buy an American made vehicle. I worked for all three of the companies. I see what goes on there from the inside.

I drive a Toyota

This.

I won't touch any of the US auto manufacturers.

I drive a Toyota that was made down the highway from me.

I have the perfect solution. Just elect Michelle Bachmann as President. She promised that gas would go down to $2/gallon if she is elected. It's a win/win for everyone.

skinnycatullus: GaryPDX: Ya know, I can see the beef over SUV's but Trucks? You do know millions of people absolutely need a truck to make a living? (myself included) or should they load up their tools in the back of Prius?

You realize the headline is about "relying too heavily on trucks" and not the fact that some trucks are sold, right? Trucks are necessary. My next vehicle will be a truck. But when truck sales make up such a large part of your business that a spike in gas prices threatens to bankrupt you, that's a problem.

This.

Humean_Nature: skinnycatullus: You realize the headline is about "relying too heavily on trucks" and not the fact that some trucks are sold, right? Trucks are necessary. My next vehicle will be a truck. But when truck sales make up such a large part of your business that a spike in gas prices threatens to bankrupt you, that's a problem.

Indeed, this. Also, I think the argument about the necessity of big trucks is basically crap. Sure, some trades need them, but very few.

I spend a lot of time in the UK, and you know what general contractors and plumbers and such over there use? Vans. Tiny vans with tiny engines that get better mileage than most American cars.

Piaggio is an Italian manufacturer of some of these tiny vans (there are tiny trucks, too - yes, I'm a fan of these) - the new model of these micro trucks have about a 1500 lb. payload, beds that are big enough to hold a full sheet of plywood or drywall, and get about 50 miles per gallon from a 1.2 liter (litre?) turbo-diesel engine. Price? 12,000 Euros - maybe USD16,500 at current exchange rates (though, I'd say it's not worth more than $12,000). The Chevy Colorado starts at USD17,400 - so, it's not a huge difference in price, I guess.

I'd really like to see the US government adopt the Euro 5 emission standards nationwide (I mean you, too, California), in lieu of what we have currently, and allow these type of vehicles to be sold in the US.

They need to start making the little trucks again. The Mazda B2000, the Chevy Luv, and so forth. Great little vehicles that managed to be a truck and still get good fuel economy. Plus they could knock the shiat out of a fancy car, drive away and not look any uglier.

You do know that they continue making trucks, because the people are buying them right? Not everyone wants a damn Prius.

TDI ftw.

kingoomieiii: GaryPDX: Bunnyhat: There was a few months of lowered sells, gas went under $4 dollars again and the idiot consumer base went right back to buying trucks and SUVs.

Ya know, I can see the beef over SUV's but Trucks? You do know millions of people absolutely need a truck to make a living? (myself included) or should they load up their tools in the back of Prius?

The problem is advertising trucks and other work vehicles to people who'd be fine with a small coupe like a Civic.

"Be available to help your friends move! ...For a mere $1,500 extra in gas a year!"

This. Living in Tennessee, you see a hell of a lot of rednecks driving pickup trucks that will never haul anything in the flatbed except an unrestrained pet, or somebody named Bubba. You also see about as many that are used for hauling... once every two years. A sofa and a couple of other small furniture items, maybe a washing machine if it's lucky. They do it so rarely they don't actually have the first clue how to tie / strap anything down.

Granted, I also know a few folks who genuinely use their trucks for hauling as part of their day job. They're in a very distinct minority, though. I'd say 2/3 of the people with pickups here have absolutely no need for them whatsoever, and if I lived in one of the more new-rich areas of town, that ratio would be significantly worse -- probably 4/5 or so.

Trucks are the only vehicles American manufacturers build with any type of quality. Take that away from them and there is literally nothing left purchasing.

please: Or are they saying manufacturers should make cars hoping that people will suddenly shift behaviors and buy them? That sounds stupid.

One big change that is happening, while this business-as-usual truth remains in place, is that there is a new market segment for small cars with high features as opposed to strictly econoboxes. In the features lie profit margin, and that's going to eventually supplant the ever-dwindling attractiveness of the high-margin SUV and vanity pickup.

B-Unit: There are a lot of people who need trucks and there are lot more who have trucks but frankly don't need them.

I grow up in a redneck town, which is actually considered to be a city by the government of Canada which boggles my mind. Anyway, growing up here a pick up was considered to be a right of passage in High School and then moving out of High School it became a status symbol. You drive around my town and there is a pickup or two almost every other driveway. The majority of them are not needed as my town is largely populated by factory workers.

But they continue to buy the oversized dick extensions and then complain the loudest about the gas prices.

This.

I am not saying U.S. automobile companies should ignore the small car market but the fact is way too many 'mericans want to drive a yank tank a get shiatty gas mileage. Whose fault is that?

rwfan: I am not saying U.S. automobile companies should ignore the small car market but the fact is way too many 'mericans want to drive a yank tank a get shiatty gas mileage. Whose fault is that?

Oooh oooh! I know! Obama?

ZAZ:
Three problems:

(1) I want a car I enjoy driving,

(2) sometimes I need more space,

(3) two door cars attract unwanted police attention while non-sporty looking high performance sedans cruise by. If I had a family and we could have two cars I'd go one large, one small.


(1) There's plenty of fun small cars

(2) If your definition of "sometimes" is like most people's, $3000 a year in fuel savings will rent you a lot of Home Depot vans

(3) I drive a loudass Mustang GT with blacked out windows (not a Gino or drug dealer) and have never been pulled over by the police. Driving like an idiot attracts unwanted police attention in any car

I'm all for driving whatever the hell you want (obviously - my car is very unpractical), but let's not try to convince ourselves that there's any other reason to drive a car any larger or less practical than you need

JesseL: skinnycatullus: GaryPDX: Ya know, I can see the beef over SUV's but Trucks? You do know millions of people absolutely need a truck to make a living? (myself included) or should they load up their tools in the back of Prius?

You realize the headline is about "relying too heavily on trucks" and not the fact that some trucks are sold, right? Trucks are necessary. My next vehicle will be a truck. But when truck sales make up such a large part of your business that a spike in gas prices threatens to bankrupt you, that's a problem.

So they should be scaling back on their attention to a market segment that does well for them (trucks) in order to expand a their offerings to a market in which they're constantly sucking hind teat to the Japanese makers?

I'd say the smarter thing to do would be to expand and improve their small truck offerings, and maybe offer some 4-cyl diesels. I'd love a diesel Ranger.

Well, they just completely killed the Ranger and the Dakota, so you are left with the Colorado if you want anything other than a full-size truck.

The manufacturers need to focus on keeping a full lineup of cars that are desirable so that when the next gas crisis happens people have alternatives within the brand instead of just going and buying a Corolla. GM and Ford are making great headway with the new small cars they just put out.
Chrysler looks to be getting there with Fiat at the helm, but in the meantime, we'll have dejavu if we have another gas spike in the meantime and the demand for trucks stops even for a couple months.

But what are the chances of gas prices going up again?

JesseL: I'd say the smarter thing to do would be to expand and improve their small truck offerings, and maybe offer some 4-cyl diesels. I'd love a diesel Ranger.

They're introducing a new Ranger, which includes a 2.2L diesel option with 118 hp and 210 lb-ft of torque, and gets up to 37 mpg.

They're just not offering it in the US or Canada, because it will cannibalize the sales of their higher-margin F150.

Yea, how dare those companies continue making money selling what people want to buy.

SUV's/Trucks are high margin vehicles. The profits from them are what allows companies like Ford and Gm to build halo cars and invest in low margin vehicles like Cruzes and Fiestas.

The Atlantic just provides some cutting edge introspective on the industry, brilliant work that.

GaryPDX: Trucks are a mainstay.

Especially where it's cold, and you have to commute. Know what happens to those factory workers if they're late because roads were horrible or too much wind/snow? They get fired.

factoryconnection: JesseL: I'd say the smarter thing to do would be to expand and improve their small truck offerings, and maybe offer some 4-cyl diesels. I'd love a diesel Ranger.

Ranger and Durango are dead models next year, FYI. Don' t know about the sh*tty Canyon/Colorado. That may be it for small pickups in the US, but there's always a Frontier or Tacoma.

There's the real problem. People would buy small trucks, but there's more profit to be had in steering them to bigger/more luxurious trucks.

Land Ark: But what are the chances of gas prices going up again?

100%?

Where is my bailout?

60some percent? This cannot be right. Look outside. Are six out of every ten vehicles on the road trucks?

rwfan: B-Unit: There are a lot of people who need trucks and there are lot more who have trucks but frankly don't need them.

I grow up in a redneck town, which is actually considered to be a city by the government of Canada which boggles my mind. Anyway, growing up here a pick up was considered to be a right of passage in High School and then moving out of High School it became a status symbol. You drive around my town and there is a pickup or two almost every other driveway. The majority of them are not needed as my town is largely populated by factory workers.

But they continue to buy the oversized dick extensions and then complain the loudest about the gas prices.

This.

I am not saying U.S. automobile companies should ignore the small car market but the fact is way too many 'mericans want to drive a yank tank a get shiatty gas mileage. Whose fault is that?

You mean we let the consumer market decide what it wants instead of some socialist bureaucrat? What a concept.

TheTeethoftheTiger: Yea, how dare those companies continue making money selling what people want to buy.

People also want(ed) buildings that had tons of asbestos in them.

Tommy Moo: 60some percent? This cannot be right. Look outside. Are six out of every ten vehicles on the road trucks?

Or SUVs... That's been my experience.

Frank and Beans: I don't and won't buy an American made vehicle. I worked for all three of the companies. I see what goes on there from the inside.

I drive a Toyota

Got a screaming deal on our '05 Tundra Dbl Cab brand new. $210/mo 1.5% interest 3 yr lease. Deal was only avail for about 3-4 mos. They were so busy turning the Prius that trucks were not moving so fast. Took out a loan to buy it after the lease. only 65K miles on it today.
Father in law was pushing me to get an Amurican made diesel because fuel was cheaper.

About a year after we first got it it diesel stated creeping up. Now I fart in his general direction as he pays more

truckstorybro