It's plain to Mr. Pawlowski that the city simply fears the fact that the tented pseudo-Marxists will holler and fight any move against them in a way that he never has.

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Oh, and Flames suck!

simsite9: Yeah, what the fark ever.

I don't see it as another Christian screaming oppression as much as inequitable enforcement of bylaws by a municipality afraid of the inevitable bad press.

I'm neither Christian nor protestor, I just think it's wrong for a municipality to selectively enforce bylaws based upon potential optics. It makes them look like cowardly bullies; they generally don't pick on those who will fight back. The street preacher in this case is the lower-hanging fruit.

strathcona: Yes, that's it.

His opinion is wrong and simplistic, but that's not the issue.

strathcona: but being as it's in the National Post, and written by Kevin Libin, I'm willing to bet there's more to this than meets the eye.

Of course, Christian persecution is part of its (and Libin's) platform.

With this piece however, the broken clock has landed on the correct time.

fark off Daily Mail.. I mean National Post.

Linear Regression, GOP-style - Because one data point sure done look good to us, boy!™

It appears that Calgary is selectively punishing only the really annoying douchebags and leaving the mildly annoying ones alone. That is unfair!

Not a huge surprise. Calgary wisely elected a Muslim as mayor, and now they're surprised that the first creeping hints of Marxism and Muslim law are entering their judicial landscape? This guy might be from some inconveniently annoying sect of Christianity, but if he's being discriminated against in favor of the economy-destoying Occupy movement... just follow the money. Qui bene, people?

Why do I get the feeling its not as much about what he is saying, rather than how he is saying it.

Street Preachers tend to be belligerent jerks.

/Christian

Christianity in Canada? I thought they still worshipped beavers up there.

Jake Havechek: Christianity in Canada? I thought they still worshipped beavers up there.

Who do you think makes all their tiny crosses?

Loucifer: It appears that Calgary is selectively punishing only the really annoying douchebags and leaving the mildly annoying ones alone. That is unfair!

From TFA: They seemed not to agonize nearly as much over Mr. Pawloski's rights - even though he's beat the city again and again in court. One dismayed judge remarked in a 2009 decision favouring Mr. Pawlowski that the city's deployment of bylaw officers and police officers to restrict his preaching "fall precariously close to being excessive and, to any reasonable observer, an abuse of power."

Leave him be. They're not stopping him, they're just feeding his persecution complex.

Jake Havechek: Christianity in Canada? I thought they still worshipped beavers up there.

Our national bird is the tossed beer can.

I saw "Strange Brew", I know what goes on up there!

Loucifer: and leaving the mildly annoying ones alone.

My town's occupiers can't be described as only mildly annoying. Some - not all, as I know two of them who shun the obnoxious belligerence shiat - have been confronting anyone wearing a tie and sports coat downtown, including a co-worker who was on his way to a memorial service. It seems that anyone in a suit, to some of them, is a greedy capitalist. They're not doing their movement any favours.

Our street preachers are generally schizophrenic and have become an accepted part of the landscape. So far, the cops and city treat the occupiers and preachers the same way - simple bemusement, but no hassles.

Jake Havechek: I saw "Strange Brew", I know what goes on up there!

Few people realize that it's a documentary.

strathcona: Is the crazy guy still downtown at Jasper and 102nd I think it was?

The one I knew on that corner passed away, but I believe a relative has taken up his cause.

The other consistent preacher resembles the Simpsons' crazy cat lady character, and she's usually around Beaver Hills park.

Exception Collection:
That chart always irritates me. It's making the assumption that all people that claim to be Christian are, in fact, the same kind of Christian. Many Christians just want to be left alone to do their own thing; it's the outspoken Evangelicals that claim to be oppressed.

True, however in many cases the outspoken Evangelicals are claiming on behalf of all Christians that all Christians are being oppressed. See: War on Christmas.

As for the situation in TFA: First, they never point out (and I'm pretty sure their readers won't know off the top of their head) that this is in Canada, not US soil.

The National Post is a nationally distributed Canadian newspaper. I'm pretty sure their readers know off the top of their head that Calgary is in Canada, just as I'm pretty sure that readers of the Wall Street Journal would be aware that Chicago, for example, is in the US.

Second, the right to peacefully assemble (as the occupiers have done) is protected. Maybe if he managed to actually get some followers out there with him, rather than preaching and claiming victory after annoying the crap out of everyone, he wouldn't get arrested.

There is more to the story. IMO Pawlowski deliberately gets arrested as a way to get attention, and is crying oppression as a way to get attention. He may in fact be a big part of the reason that Calgary hasn't cracked down on the protesters. A year ago, after going to court, he issued a press release, posted on his Calgary Street Church website (scroll down past the video for complete text), that began:

"Today, in Calgary, Alberta, a provincial court judge, Judge Anne Brown, ruled that street preacher Artur Pawlowski's Charter rights were violated when he and his church, Street Church Ministries, were charged under Calgary's parks bylaws. The specific charges in this case were, giving away free goods and services (illegally feeding the homeless), gathering a crowd, operating a barbecue, operating an amplification system in a park, placing a sign in a park and placing an electrical chord on a sidewalk.

"This positive provincial court ruling in favour of our constitutional freedoms is a victory for all Canadians. It sends a clear message, that municipal governments need to look closely at both their existing laws and at the laws they are bringing into force every day, to be sure that constitutional and Charter freedoms are respected. There is no excuse for law makers putting laws in force that infringe on the constitutional or Charter protected rights of the citizens of our great nation. This verdict truly is a feather in the cap of all citizens concerned with freedom for all," stated Pawlowski."

There used to be one that haunted Whyte Ave fifteen or so years ago, back when Whyte was cool and bohemian. He had a little wooden box to stand on and everything. His was a particularly virulent flavour of "the end of the world is nigh/repent your sins/homogheys should be killed" type of Christianity.

People just used to point and laugh at him.

It certainly does look this guys has a point and the first hand experience to prove it out.

It seems clear that the 'occupy' 'protestors' are being given more leeway than he has been afforded.

However, this does not mean that the difference in treatment is caused by bias toward religion.

He can certainly prove HOW he has been treated differently, but I'm not seeing much evidence of the WHY.

Bob_Laublaw: I don't see it as another Christian screaming oppression

How is it even possible to not see another Christian screaming oppression in this story?

No Such Agency: Not a huge surprise. Calgary wisely elected a Muslim as mayor, and now they're surprised that the first creeping hints of Marxism and Muslim law are entering their judicial landscape? This guy might be from some inconveniently annoying sect of Christianity, but if he's being discriminated against in favor of the economy-destoying Occupy movement... just follow the money. Qui bene, people?

+1 For muslim mayor
+1 For saying that that mayor follows both the principles of marxism AND sharia law
+1 For implying that the occupy movement will destroy the economy
+1 For hitting 6 conservative talking points in one paragraph
+4 for brevity, correct spelling and proper grammar
-1 For the French, Calgary isn't in Quebec.

Total: 7/10 on the trollometer.

FTA: 'Three young men emerge from their tents at the "Occupy Calgary" encampment at Calgary's Olympic Plaza on a weekday afternoon and make a beeline for a café a few dozen yards away. One of them plants his money on the counter and orders a shot of tequila.

"No. Don't do it," shouts a man sitting by the window. "It will ruin your life."

"Yeah, but it warms the belly," the customer smiles back.

The man at the table is Artur Pawlowski.'


That's all I needed to hear:

""It is not the thing that enters the mouth that defiles a man, but the thing that proceeds from the mouth that defiles a man." -Matthew 15:11

Just another "preacher" who is more zeal than knowledge. Reading the article reveals someone who apparently can't appreciate the difference between civil disobedience and being an asshole.

Another excerpt: "The protesters serve communal meals without permits; Mr. Pawlowski has been ordered to get licensed by the health department to feed soup and sandwiches to the homeless. Police have said they've handed "occupiers" tickets for smoking, dogs, and open liquor, but no one seriously thinks they've been strict about the letter of the law. Mr. Pawlowski was once fined for running an extension cord over a city sidewalk. One time, police handcuffed him and hauled him in after organizers of a street festival complained he was bothering them by reading a Bible aloud."

You see, Mr. Pawlowski, the difference between their and your infractions is that yours inconvenience the maximum amount of people possible. A man in the park with a bottle isn't likely to inconvenience anyone who doesn't want to be, but preaching to a bunch of people who didn't come for your preaching is likely to annoy all of them. You've quite literally put a stumbling block on a city sidewalk!

It's a shame that Protestants don't believe in monasteries, because Mr. Pawlowski needs to be in one.

BojanglesPaladin:
He can certainly prove HOW he has been treated differently, but I'm not seeing much evidence of the WHY.

Because his beating the charges (and the judge declaring the charges unconstitutional) makes it a pointless and expensive waste of resources to bring up the Occupy folks on the same charges. If the Occupy folks are left alone and at some point in the future he is again brought up on the same charges, then he'll be justified in claiming he's been discriminated against.

LoneWolf343: That's all I needed to hear:

Do you think maybe you are inserting YOUR guess as to what he means here and then arguing why your guess at his meaning is incorrect?

I think there is a term for that.

Also, asshole or not, are you arguing that a person does not have the right under the law to speak in a public place? Because it sounds like you are arguing that the state is correct in preventing him from doing so.

Really.....Crazy son of a preacher man (new window)

I thought Canadians were cool and this was an Am'urican Conservative thing.The video is very errrmmm interesting. It's like Hitler telling you to go worship jesus.


Ich Bein Ein Crazy Preacher Man.


Canada imma disappoint.

Bob_Laublaw: It's plain to Mr. Pawlowski that the city simply fears the fact that the tented pseudo-Marxists will holler and fight any move against them in a way that he never has.

Yeah, that's pretty much it.


I'm guess that is pretty much it. And that doesn't have anything to do with his Christianity. It's a question of resources. It's a lot easier to roust out one guy who's always there than a bunch of people that you're hoping will just get tired and move on pretty soon.

And, just maybe, the cops have learned from this guy's own example. He's had the charges dismissed multiple times. Maybe they've stopped ticketing people altogether.

This is the part about the occupation that annoys me the most:


They stayed put over the weekend when the city's Muslim community was forced to hold a cultural festival around them, having booked and paid to legally rent Olympic Plaza.

I've reserved public spaces for events, and I'd be pissed if someone blocked my use of it.

Unless he has any evidence, other than a prejudice about them being godless commies, that Christians aren't in fact among the 99%ers; or that their message and the Christian one are mutually exclusive; or that the completely different circumstances surrounding the global protest movement and his prideful little one-man struggle (or jihad, if you will) are immaterial, then he has no credibility and we can safely chalk this up as another National Post anti-left propaganda fluff piece.

Doktor_Zhivago: No Such Agency: Not a huge surprise. Calgary wisely elected a Muslim as mayor, and now they're surprised that the first creeping hints of Marxism and Muslim law are entering their judicial landscape? This guy might be from some inconveniently annoying sect of Christianity, but if he's being discriminated against in favor of the economy-destoying Occupy movement... just follow the money. Qui bene, people?

+1 For muslim mayor
+1 For saying that that mayor follows both the principles of marxism AND sharia law
+1 For implying that the occupy movement will destroy the economy
+1 For hitting 6 conservative talking points in one paragraph
+4 for brevity, correct spelling and proper grammar
-1 For the French, Calgary isn't in Quebec.

Total: 7/10 on the trollometer.

+ 12 for appropriate use of LATIN "Cooo-eee BEN-Ayyyyyy" (Like the Fonz)

/to who(m?) the good?
//latins a bit rusty

Thorndyke Barnhard: Unless he has any evidence, other than a prejudice about them being godless commies, that Christians aren't in fact among the 99%ers; or that their message and the Christian one are mutually exclusive; or that the completely different circumstances surrounding the global protest movement and his prideful little one-man struggle (or jihad, if you will) are immaterial,

You do know that's not how it works, right? One does NOT have to prove there is anything 'wrong' with the pther people being treated differently.

Nor does commonality between groups mean discrimination is not possible.

All he has to prove is that different rules apply for the same infraction when one group is of a certain religion, and the other is not. More accurately, he has to assert it, and a ourt would need to adjuticate whether it was true.

bikerific: This is the part about the occupation that annoys me the most:


They stayed put over the weekend when the city's Muslim community was forced to hold a cultural festival around them, having booked and paid to legally rent Olympic Plaza.

I've reserved public spaces for events, and I'd be pissed if someone blocked my use of it.

I understand your point on a first gut intuition level but on further reflection, it's almost ridiculously Canadian to think that civil disobedience and protest movements are supposed to be in no way inconvenient and should be considerate of the status quo business.

strathcona: apoptotic: There is more to the story. IMO Pawlowski deliberately gets arrested as a way to get attention, and is crying oppression as a way to get attention. He may in fact be a big part of the reason that Calgary hasn't cracked down on the protesters. A year ago, after going to court, he issued a press release, posted on his Calgary Street Church website (scroll down past the video for complete text), that began:

His site is comedy gold. Particularly the comics!

I thought it was pretty funny that "How to be Saved" goes to a story about eating pancakes with Stephen Harper and his cabinet ministers until I realized that all the headers on the left jump to that story. I did enjoy the story about the CRA stripping both his ministries of their charity status due to excessive partisan political activism. The link to the March for Jesus site also produced this gem:

"When we arrived at the gathering point, at Millennium Park, the whole sky was dark. We received a call from the company we rented the bouncy houses from and they told us that it was raining everywhere in the city of Calgary. They asked us if we still wanted the bouncy houses to be set up. We said "yes, by faith, God will move the clouds for the March for Jesus"

Christian commits murder in the name of religion = terrorist and a murderer

Atheist commits murder because he wanted to = murderer.

Christian: OMG CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION

IntriguedIrishGuy: Doktor_Zhivago: No Such Agency: Not a huge surprise. Calgary wisely elected a Muslim as mayor, and now they're surprised that the first creeping hints of Marxism and Muslim law are entering their judicial landscape? This guy might be from some inconveniently annoying sect of Christianity, but if he's being discriminated against in favor of the economy-destoying Occupy movement... just follow the money. Qui bene, people?

+1 For muslim mayor
+1 For saying that that mayor follows both the principles of marxism AND sharia law
+1 For implying that the occupy movement will destroy the economy
+1 For hitting 6 conservative talking points in one paragraph
+4 for brevity, correct spelling and proper grammar
-1 For the French, Calgary isn't in Quebec.

Total: 7/10 on the trollometer.

+ 12 for appropriate use of LATIN "Cooo-eee BEN-Ayyyyyy" (Like the Fonz)

/to who(m?) the good?
//latins a bit rusty

Well shiat. -1000 points for me.
/Degree in linguistics... should know this stuff
//In my defense I specialized in Germanic languages, none of that prissy romance bullshiat.

BojanglesPaladin: LoneWolf343: That's all I needed to hear:

Do you think maybe you are inserting YOUR guess as to what he means here and then arguing why your guess at his meaning is incorrect?

I think there is a term for that.

Also, asshole or not, are you arguing that a person does not have the right under the law to speak in a public place? Because it sounds like you are arguing that the state is correct in preventing him from doing so.

I didn't bite, but I'm going to give you a good score for effort: 8/10.

Britney Spear's Speculum: Christian commits murder in the name of religion = terrorist and a murderer. Atheist commits murder because he wanted to = murderer.Christian: OMG CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION

Now you are just making stuff up. If you can't even be bothered to make it relevant to the thread, please don't waste everyone's pixels.

That was embarassingly weak, and I'm afraid I will have to dock you at least 5 TrollPoints^tm

apoptotic: As for the situation in TFA: First, they never point out (and I'm pretty sure their readers won't know off the top of their head) that this is in Canada, not US soil.

The National Post is a nationally distributed Canadian newspaper. I'm pretty sure their readers know off the top of their head that Calgary is in Canada, just as I'm pretty sure that readers of the Wall Street Journal would be aware that Chicago, for example, is in the US.

We here in Merika sometimes forget that Canada has their own cities, and laws, and everything!

LoneWolf343: I didn't bite, but I'm going to give you a good score for effort: 8/10

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, but your scoring is more generous.

But Seriously, your point made no sense, and seems to be completely oblivious to free speech.

justadadX3: apoptotic: As for the situation in TFA: First, they never point out (and I'm pretty sure their readers won't know off the top of their head) that this is in Canada, not US soil.

The National Post is a nationally distributed Canadian newspaper. I'm pretty sure their readers know off the top of their head that Calgary is in Canada, just as I'm pretty sure that readers of the Wall Street Journal would be aware that Chicago, for example, is in the US.

We here in Merika sometimes forget that Canada has their own cities, and laws, and everything!

Yeah I know. I grew up spending all my school breaks in northern Idaho, and there were people there that I knew for years before they would actually believe we had TVs and didn't live in igloos.

apoptotic: justadadX3: apoptotic: As for the situation in TFA: First, they never point out (and I'm pretty sure their readers won't know off the top of their head) that this is in Canada, not US soil.

The National Post is a nationally distributed Canadian newspaper. I'm pretty sure their readers know off the top of their head that Calgary is in Canada, just as I'm pretty sure that readers of the Wall Street Journal would be aware that Chicago, for example, is in the US.

We here in Merika sometimes forget that Canada has their own cities, and laws, and everything!

Yeah I know. I grew up spending all my school breaks in northern Idaho, and there were people there that I knew for years before they would actually believe we had TVs and didn't live in igloos.

You're all scared of the dark too.

BojanglesPaladin: LoneWolf343: I didn't bite, but I'm going to give you a good score for effort: 8/10

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, but your scoring is more generous.

But Seriously, your point made no sense, and seems to be completely oblivious to free speech.

Uh huh. Do me a favor: find a radio, go outside, crank it as loud as you can, and wait for some men in blue suits. I'm sure they will be more than happy to educate you on your error more clearly than I ever can.