I'm sure these guys smell like roses, subby.

I'd be willing to bet the grungiest hippie of today has personal hygiene which is light years ahead of rail workers from the 19th century.

ZAZ: Think French truckers blocking highways.

They did this in Oakland yesterday.

ZAZ: OWS is not a union nor a plausible facsimile of one. It has no economic power.

Striking railroad workers mattered in the 19th century. Think French truckers blocking highways. They wielded economic power by acting collectively.

Kids cutting class to hang out in the park is not a strike. It is a protest. Not even in the same category. Send a million of them to march on Washington and it's still a protest rather than a strike. Win the political war and tear down the banks and it's still a protest rather than a strike.

This.

The unemployed have no economic power. It's kind of a defining characteristic of that population. Yell all you want, but until you can cause actual, real damage (economic or otherwise), it won't matter: It's like the LA Riots: Nobody really gives a crap if you burn down your own shiatty neighborhood. It won't change anything.

Is this thing still going on? They didn't get bored just yet.

Ah well, just a little while longer.

Until OWS takes up arms to fight the tyranny they believe keeps them in rags, they are nothing more than a curiosity to the so-called 1%.

But keep the old-timey music. People like old-timey music.

DamnYankees: We're human beings!...There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious-makes you so sick at heart-that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all.

How many would you see ground up in those gears to see this amorphous change you demand? If you can't even state clear objections, how can you achieve them? OWS is just a loose coalition of competing interests without a single driving, unifying cause. And with out that, nothing of merit will be accomplished.

m2313: ZAZ: Think French truckers blocking highways.

They did this in Oakland yesterday.

It wasn't the port workers, it was OWS protesters that marched on the port. BIG difference. How long do you think tactics like this will work before the workers at the Oakland Port turns on the OWS protesters. These kinds of tactics will only serve to turn sympathetic Union workers against them.

dittybopper: ZAZ: OWS is not a union nor a plausible facsimile of one. It has no economic power.

Striking railroad workers mattered in the 19th century. Think French truckers blocking highways. They wielded economic power by acting collectively.

Kids cutting class to hang out in the park is not a strike. It is a protest. Not even in the same category. Send a million of them to march on Washington and it's still a protest rather than a strike. Win the political war and tear down the banks and it's still a protest rather than a strike.

This.

The unemployed have no economic power. It's kind of a defining characteristic of that population. Yell all you want, but until you can cause actual, real damage (economic or otherwise), it won't matter: It's like the LA Riots: Nobody really gives a crap if you burn down your own shiatty neighborhood. It won't change anything.

Which is why I have been saying over and over again that they should be organizing politically. They h ave no money but they do have some votes, if they can organize enough voters they can actually hope to achieve something.

Of course that seems to enrage many OWS supporters, for some reason. So instead they're going to threaten Wallstreet with their lack of money in order to effect change in Washington who doesn't care about them because they don't vote as a bloc.

I wish I had made poor decisions as to my higher education choices and went way into debt on a worthless degree so I could have a little empathy for these people.

Alas, I am not stupid. These people are the bottom of the barrel and catering to them only lowers us all.

BigBooper: m2313: ZAZ: Think French truckers blocking highways.

They did this in Oakland yesterday.

It wasn't the port workers, it was OWS protesters that marched on the port. BIG difference. How long do you think tactics like this will work before the workers at the Oakland Port turns on the OWS protesters. These kinds of tactics will only serve to turn sympathetic Union workers against them.

I'm pretty sure the port workers get paid if they show up, regardless of whether or not they actually have to do any work.

GORDON: I wish I had made poor decisions as to my higher education choices and went way into debt on a worthless degree so I could have a little empathy for these people.

Alas, I am not stupid. These people are the bottom of the barrel and catering to them only lowers us all.

Ah yes, the engineer shows up. If only everyone in the world was an engineer, think of what a happy place it would be. (You're on Fark during the work day. You're not as smart as you think you are.)

kbotc: If only everyone in the world was an engineer

Everything would look like this:

ZAZ: Kids cutting class to hang out in the park

*sigh*

1/10

// you lost points for spelling (more errors looks more authentically wing nut)
/ then gained one because I took the bait

Take a cue from the only social movement that has ever made a real dent in the nation's extremes of wealth and poverty.

Yeah. Forget about that pesky Women's Right's movement or the Civil Right's movement. They did nothing to help impoverished people.

*sigh*

GORDON: I wish I had made poor decisions as to my higher education choices and went way into debt on a worthless degree so I could have a little empathy for these people.

Alas, I am not stupid. These people are the bottom of the barrel and catering to them only lowers us all.



Paint all OWS protesters as nothing but whiny, jobless hippie children who have no real courage or work ethics so that it fits your world view and doesn't cause cognitive dissonance: Check.

GORDON: I wish I had made poor decisions as to my higher education choices and went way into debt on a worthless degree so I could have a little empathy for these people.

Alas, I am not stupid. These people are the bottom of the barrel and catering to them only lowers us all.

translation: i got mine and read ayn rand in college, and am unable to conceive that others may have had to make different decisions based on their circumstances than i did. derp derpy derp.

AverageAmericanGuy: Until OWS takes up arms to fight the tyranny they believe keeps them in rags, they are nothing more than a curiosity to the so-called 1%.

Oh man you are so right! I mean, why is everyone even talking about this stuff. It's not like OWS is doing anything in the way of garnering attention, making politicians nervous, and forcing the media's eye on people actually suffering from a shiat economy. The 1% is untouchable! They can never be marginalized with revamped election and tax laws!

You are so smart I can hardly believe it. The OWS should just take up arms! What are they thinking?!

Shay's Rebellion

Citrate1007: Shay's Rebellion

Nah, that's the model for the Tea Party.

watson.t.hamster: Of course that seems to enrage many OWS supporters, for some reason. So instead they're going to threaten Wallstreet with their lack of money in order to effect change in Washington who doesn't care about them because they don't vote as a bloc.

Ah, the classic "We have met the enemy, and he is us" scenario.

DamnYankees: We're human beings!...There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious-makes you so sick at heart-that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all.

"A friend once told me 'they would follow any man who would turn the wheels'
Now the wheels are spinning out of control. What would they do if we held them still?
If you destroy the working parts, all that's left is a broken machine;
A beacon of Light from a burning screen.

Light up the night."

caramba421: BigBooper: m2313: ZAZ: Think French truckers blocking highways.

They did this in Oakland yesterday.

It wasn't the port workers, it was OWS protesters that marched on the port. BIG difference. How long do you think tactics like this will work before the workers at the Oakland Port turns on the OWS protesters. These kinds of tactics will only serve to turn sympathetic Union workers against them.

I'm pretty sure the port workers get paid if they show up, regardless of whether or not they actually have to do any work.

Last I heard, port was shut down, as in closed, stay home, no work for you. Now unless the port workers are paid when the port is closed, then the workers are losing money. I guess it depends on their contract.

But if the union workers are stuck at home with no paycheck, you won't see things staying friendly long.

DamnYankees: We're human beings!...There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious-makes you so sick at heart-that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all.

Thank you, Mario. Another historical example of what happens when you piss off the man. He got his cop beatdown (and the press lied about it as best it could, and, given that the whole incident was filmed, did a pretty good job). My only quibble with TFA: I'm not so sure the police won't go past "near-lethal" force if the OWS people start getting more annoying. And, as others have pointed out here, right now it's an unfocused protest that has gotten a few words (e.g., economic inequality) onto TV. But if it grows into something more like the Wobblies, the Chartist Movement, or a good old-fashioned transportation/general strike, you can bet the corporate overlords will unleash the hounds.

BigBooper: caramba421: BigBooper: m2313: ZAZ: Think French truckers blocking highways.

They did this in Oakland yesterday.

It wasn't the port workers, it was OWS protesters that marched on the port. BIG difference. How long do you think tactics like this will work before the workers at the Oakland Port turns on the OWS protesters. These kinds of tactics will only serve to turn sympathetic Union workers against them.

I'm pretty sure the port workers get paid if they show up, regardless of whether or not they actually have to do any work.

Last I heard, port was shut down, as in closed, stay home, no work for you. Now unless the port workers are paid when the port is closed, then the workers are losing money. I guess it depends on their contract.

But if the union workers are stuck at home with no paycheck, you won't see things staying friendly long.

You realize that if the port workers wanted to go to work, they could have crossed the line, called police, and legally broken the protest up, right?

"The Port of Oakland was chosen as the protest site because the International Longshore and Warehouse Union has a rare contract clause that allows workers to honor certain community picket lines. If workers arriving for a 7 p.m. shift decide not to cross the line, a shutdown could result."

Shutdown resulted, so the workers arriving for that shift must not have decided to cross the line. I don't think they are going to be pissed at themselves.

These occupiers are not as farking stupid as people seem to think. They do research. They get really farking close to the lines that can't be crossed, but then don't cross them. They... get this... occupy them.

Gato Blanco: Paint all OWS protesters as nothing but whiny, jobless hippie children who have no real courage or work ethics so that it fits your world view and doesn't cause cognitive dissonance: Check.

My brother was a Marine. An infantry Marine at that. After he got out, he turned into a whiny, jobless hippie child. For well over a decade. He was still sponging off dad, living at home, well in his mid-thirties, for Christ sake. He got an essentially useless degree at college, which he went heavily in debt for*, and it took him a long time to actually find a job (working for the government, btw) that gave him health insurance and other benefits. Not that he couldn't have had one, but all the opportunities presented to him "weren't his style".

Contrast that with my other brother, who went into the Army, learned a good trade (and went to both Kosovo and Afghanistan with the military, and Iraq as a civilian contractor), and was able to build up the money through working to buy a house, get married, and now start a family, just like I did.

What I'm saying is that military experience, even combat experience, doesn't give you any great insight into how to make it in this world economically, and prior military service doesn't mean that you can't be a smelly hippie kid, it just makes you a smelly hippie kid with military experience. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

*I got something like $21k for college from the Army. He got $8k from the Marines. Four years after I signed up.

BigBooper: caramba421: BigBooper: m2313: ZAZ: Think French truckers blocking highways.

They did this in Oakland yesterday.

It wasn't the port workers, it was OWS protesters that marched on the port. BIG difference. How long do you think tactics like this will work before the workers at the Oakland Port turns on the OWS protesters. These kinds of tactics will only serve to turn sympathetic Union workers against them.

I'm pretty sure the port workers get paid if they show up, regardless of whether or not they actually have to do any work.

Last I heard, port was shut down, as in closed, stay home, no work for you. Now unless the port workers are paid when the port is closed, then the workers are losing money. I guess it depends on their contract.

But if the union workers are stuck at home with no paycheck, you won't see things staying friendly long.

Depends on how generous their union strike-fund is.

There are few things unions love more than staying at home and not working.

If that money runs out or the union leadership decides this doesn't count then yes, expect numerous broken kneecaps.

watson.t.hamster: BigBooper: caramba421: BigBooper: m2313: ZAZ: Think French truckers blocking highways.

They did this in Oakland yesterday.

It wasn't the port workers, it was OWS protesters that marched on the port. BIG difference. How long do you think tactics like this will work before the workers at the Oakland Port turns on the OWS protesters. These kinds of tactics will only serve to turn sympathetic Union workers against them.

I'm pretty sure the port workers get paid if they show up, regardless of whether or not they actually have to do any work.

Last I heard, port was shut down, as in closed, stay home, no work for you. Now unless the port workers are paid when the port is closed, then the workers are losing money. I guess it depends on their contract.

But if the union workers are stuck at home with no paycheck, you won't see things staying friendly long.

Depends on how generous their union strike-fund is.

There are few things unions love more than staying at home and not working.

If that money runs out or the union leadership decides this doesn't count then yes, expect numerous broken kneecaps.

My point is that if the Union decides to strike, or is in favor of the shut down, so they support it, then it's all good. On the other hand, yea if the union is against some punks shutting them down.... well they won't be as nice as the local police. And yes, I know this is where the kid was shot in the head with the tear gas canister.

The OWS people just have to be smart about who they tick off. They definitely can't afford to turn allies into enemies. Especially ones who have a history of not being shy of using force to make their point.

HAHA! I've got my head up my ass too far to care about any actual issues we face as a society, so I'll just make fun of their personal hygeine! HAHA!

joonyer: HAHA! I've got my head up my ass too far to care about any actual issues we face as a society, so I'll just make fun of their personal hygeine! HAHA!

Welcome to Fark, you'll fit in just fine here.

/yea, yea, I see you've been here since 2007
//don't harsh my joke man

BigBooper: joonyer: HAHA! I've got my head up my ass too far to care about any actual issues we face as a society, so I'll just make fun of their personal hygeine! HAHA!

Welcome to Fark, you'll fit in just fine here.

/yea, yea, I see you've been here since 2007
//don't harsh my joke man

:)

Maybe if those whiny steel workers all majored in Engineering, they wouldn't have such crappy steel working jobs! Stop whining to the bosses about your own past mistakes, you entitled brats!

/Am I doing it right?

TheShavingofOccam123: LouDobbsAwaaaay: What they can learn from the Battle of Blair Mountain is that corporate interests are willing to hire gunmen to take you down, shooting you in the back after a cease-fire, and the government is prepared to launch an air-strike on its own civilians to prevent an uprising.

The Wiki on the Battle of Blair Mountain is pure shiat.

Sid Hatfield was chief of police of Matewan and his deputy was Ed Chambers. The Baldwin-Felts employees that murdered those two unarmed men in front of their wives murdered a chief of police and his deputy, not two good friends.

Fark. Someone has been farking with the history of labor movements in this country. Watch out people. The first casualty in war is truth.

Care to enlighten us as to what was incorrect?
Link (new window)
Seems to concur that he was a police chief at some point

BeesNut
"A friend once told me 'they would follow any man who would turn the wheels'
Now the wheels are spinning out of control. What would they do if we held them still?
If you destroy the working parts, all that's left is a broken machine;
A beacon of Light from a burning screen.
Light up the night"

There is a city this darkness can't hide! There are the embers of a fire that's gone out, but I can still feel the heat on my skin, this mess we're in; you and I. Maybe you and I, maybe we can light up the NIIIIIIGHT

Seeing as how I watched someone pour a bucket of human waste down the sewer @ Occupy Portland this week I'd say the smell is about the same.

dittybopper: It's like the LA Riots: Nobody really gives a crap if you burn down your own shiatty neighborhood. It won't change anything.

You're right. They need to start firebombing the rich neighborhoods in Long Island and Connecticut.

The problem is getting a few hundred die hard supporters to form up the brigades to do so. The non-violent pussy protests attract non-violent pussy protesters. Those of us capable of leading, and committing, violence are too busy working on becoming the upper 5-15%. It's a different sort of internal drive.