I initially read that as "CLITBUSTERS".

Mr. Potatoass: I initially read that as "CLITBUSTERS".

This.

Scientology thread!

Mr. Potatoass: I initially read that as "CLITBUSTERS".

Australia can't afford my services.

The FSRC?

Nick Xenophon is a perfect cult leader name. What is he trying to distract us from?

French Government's cult-busting agency, Miviludes

I was on Miviiludes once, real mellow.

/Wait... nevermind.

An end to Christianity, Judaism, Islam, ...???

Hero Zzyzzx: Nick Xenophon is a perfect cult leader name. What is he trying to distract us from?

That's almost 9/10ths of the work XENOPHOBIA. Fear of outsiders, or fear of people who are "different".

a cult is a religion that has not grown to a given size.

so they should ban religions in AU as well.

from small things (big things one day come)

I ate at the "Twelve Tribes" Yellow Deli in Island Pond, Vermont a few weeks ago. Had a nice chat with a guy who looked like Charles Manson and rambled on about conspiracy theories. The food was good and the design and craftsmanship of the restaurant was exceptional, but I've never met such lifeless and frightened people as the cult members.

Just so long as we don't have to see Harvey Keitel in a dress again.

Corporate Mofo: I am NOT farking with anyone named Xenophon.

Take him to the beach and he'll be too happy to bother with you.

tetsoushima: Mr. Potatoass: I initially read that as "CLITBUSTERS".

This.

This This

They're finally breaking up Christianity?

No Cult.

The problem with Australia is that they need to buy a copy of "Dianetics" by L. Ron Hubbard.

Go full on Germany on their asses.

They're finally going after Mel Gibson, w00t!!

Mel Gibson pours millions into extremist Catholic sect (new window)

Nipping this shiat in the bud:

Cults are not religions that haven't grown up yet. Belief absent of action is mostly harmless (I believe I'll have a drink), and cults act very differently to religions. They isolate their members from the outside world and from those that might contradict them. (Conversely, you can't get the religious to shut up and leave us alone.) They set impossible moral standards then exploit the guilt their members feel when they fall short. They encourage confession then betray that trust to keep them in line. They make their members see any outsider, even family, as non-persons. They lie so bald-facedly that even those who believe it's bull buy into it wholeheartedly. They prey on the smart; they're so willing to believe they know secrets others don't and they'd NEVER let themselves be taken in by a cult.

Cults aren't religions. They're brain hacks.

Mr. Potatoass Add Favorite Quote 2011-11-02 08:36:06 PM Ignore
I initially read that as "CLITBUSTERS".



I wish you wouldn't talk about me behind my back. Thank you.

This is problematic...
I mean, who determines what's a dangerous cult and what's just a harmless small eccentric religious movement?

I think anyone outside of Scientology can probably agree that they belong on there. But what about smaller religious groups like Wiccans or other Pagan religions? They're not dangerous. Are they going to be threatened by this?

Where's the line drawn on what's an 'evil' cult and how will this affect minority religions?

shivashakti: This is problematic...I mean, who determines what's a dangerous cult and what's just a harmless small eccentric religious movement?

I thought it was the Sanhedrin

shivashakti: This is problematic...
I mean, who determines what's a dangerous cult and what's just a harmless small eccentric religious movement?

I think anyone outside of Scientology can probably agree that they belong on there. But what about smaller religious groups like Wiccans or other Pagan religions? They're not dangerous. Are they going to be threatened by this?

Where's the line drawn on what's an 'evil' cult and how will this affect minority religions?

I think it comes down to personal freedom within the religion. With many mind control cults, they have them working unusually long hours and they don't let them leave. Basically it should come down to strict minimum wage and work laws, and belief doesn't become a part of the legislation.

Also there will be problems when defining "Faith healing". We had an idiot die because they believed that they could survive entirely on air. Turns out you can't

Also Xenephon is one of Australia's best and most principled politicians.

Xenophon. Sorry. He also went after scientologists and is going after problem gambling, a sacred cash cow in Australia

shivashakti: This is problematic...
I mean, who determines what's a dangerous cult and what's just a harmless small eccentric religious movement?

Well, there's nothing to say that they're going to do this the right way, by making specific acts illegal that can be proved with evidence in a court. If they were, and as I'm an Australian I can shoot Senator Xenophon an email with suggestions, they'd do something like this:

Cults are dangerous chiefly because they brainwash, and brainwashing is not restricted to cults. Psychologists have studied brainwashing in and out of cults and identified specific behaviours that are almost always present in brainwashing (Robert Lifton's is the one I'm most familiar with, but there are others). Some of these behaviours would make for bad laws, but there's a few that are both actionable and unlikely to have bad side effects; exploiting people's confessions by using them as blackmail mayerial, and misrepresenting an organisation as being 'Christian' or 'scientific' are examples of common cult behaviours. From there, behaviours that would be problematic to make laws around, like an organisation restricting its members from associating with whomever they choose, could become illegal if concrete cult behaviours are also present.

In any case, the takeaway is that psychologists know what separates a dangerous cult from something like Wicca.

Someone call Jerry Lawler!

/obscure
//probably

Pushing shiat uphill with a long pointy stick.

Scientology went to high court in 1983 to challenge their baniation and won. High court took a very broad and liberal view on defining what is a religion; and it seems highly improbable today that any substantial change will occur here. Quote's from the ruling:

"If each purported religion had to show that its doctrines were true, then all might fail. Administrators and judges must resist the temptation to hold that groups or institutions are not religious because claimed religious beliefs or practices seem absurd, fraudulent, evil or novel; or because the group or institution is new, the number of adherents small, the leaders hypocrites, or because they seek to obtain the financial and other privileges which come with religious status. In the eyes of the law, religions are equal. There is no religious club with a monopoly of State privileges for its members. The policy of the law is "one in, all in". "

"Charlatanism is a necessary price of religious freedom, and if a self-proclaimed teacher persuades others to believe in a religion which he propounds, lack of sincerity or integrity on his part is not incompatible with the religious character of the beliefs, practices and observances accepted by his followers."

"The conclusion to which we have ultimately come is that Scientology is, for relevant purposes, a religion. With due respect to Crockett J. and the members of the Full Supreme Court who reached a contrary conclusion, it seems to us that there are elements and characteristics of Scientology in Australia, as disclosed by the evidence, which cannot be denied"

Tofino: Someone call Jerry Lawler!

/obscure
//probably

Is he the guy from the WWE?

Merus: Nipping this shiat in the bud:

Cults are not religions that haven't grown up yet. Belief absent of action is mostly harmless (I believe I'll have a drink), and cults act very differently to religions. They isolate their members from the outside world and from those that might contradict them. (Conversely, you can't get the religious to shut up and leave us alone.) They set impossible moral standards then exploit the guilt their members feel when they fall short. They encourage confession then betray that trust to keep them in line. They make their members see any outsider, even family, as non-persons. They lie so bald-facedly that even those who believe it's bull buy into it wholeheartedly. They prey on the smart; they're so willing to believe they know secrets others don't and they'd NEVER let themselves be taken in by a cult.

Cults aren't religions. They're brain hacks.

I've always seen Scientology as something that was expressly designed to part people with huge egos and absolutely no common dog-fark (common sense), and not a huge amount of grey matter in general, with large amounts of money.
That's why it succeeds so well in Hollywierd. Where else can you find that number of people with huge egos and pocketbooks to match but not much going on upstairs but in the acting industry? Even in pro sports you still have to be able to grasp some principles of strategy, as a stuntman isn't going to step in for you during the big scene.

If I didn't lead a cult, I'd never get laid...

Merus: Nipping this shiat in the bud:

Cults are not religions that haven't grown up yet. Belief absent of action is mostly harmless (I believe I'll have a drink), and cults act very differently to religions. They isolate their members from the outside world and from those that might contradict them. (Conversely, you can't get the religious to shut up and leave us alone.) They set impossible moral standards then exploit the guilt their members feel when they fall short. They encourage confession then betray that trust to keep them in line. They make their members see any outsider, even family, as non-persons. They lie so bald-facedly that even those who believe it's bull buy into it wholeheartedly. They prey on the smart; they're so willing to believe they know secrets others don't and they'd NEVER let themselves be taken in by a cult.

Cults aren't religions. They're brain hacks.

No, that sounds exactly like religions.

It's just that mainstream ones have grown to the point where the members don't have to be secretive for fear or persecution.

/they treat us like the Romans / used to treat the Christians
//even some church going folks are scared / modern catacombs of fear

id swear that this is ground work for state approved religion

time will tell

Merus: Nipping this shiat in the bud:

Cults are not religions that haven't grown up yet. Belief absent of action is mostly harmless (I believe I'll have a drink), and cults act very differently to religions. They isolate their members from the outside world and from those that might contradict them. (Conversely, you can't get the religious to shut up and leave us alone.) They set impossible moral standards then exploit the guilt their members feel when they fall short. They encourage confession then betray that trust to keep them in line. They make their members see any outsider, even family, as non-persons. They lie so bald-facedly that even those who believe it's bull buy into it wholeheartedly. They prey on the smart; they're so willing to believe they know secrets others don't and they'd NEVER let themselves be taken in by a cult.

Cults aren't religions. They're brain hacks.

This. A father of a friend recently hooked up with the yoga/sex cult of Gregorian Bivolaru in Romania. Does anyone on Fark have any experience with this group?

So they're finally doing something about the Diocese of Sydney?

/Window seat

I find it so deliciously ironic that I had to go answer my door for a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses while reading this thread that my head may split from the grin I'll be wearing all day...

I wonder how it would be received if I started promoting atheism door-to-door? For the record, I politely declined their pamphlet on "intelligent design" after explaining I believed in evolution.



FSM FTW