, sets the bar for being respected as a great American due to his business acumen and money despite being a complete shiat of a person and insane.

Project Jennifer.

That conjugation hurt my feelings, subby.

I imagine the engineering and design meeting sounding like this:

Hughes: I want to build a huge sea plane
Design Team: Sounds good.
Hughes: I want to build it mostly out of wood
Design Team: Umm...yeah, you know we have lightweight materials like aluminum right?
Hughes: NO! Wood...delicious wood!
Design Team: Uhh, yeah...but its gonna weigh like 5 times more than it should, and the current engine technology just isn't powerful enough to get something like this airborne...
Hughes: ...Fark you! Build it!!!

Ground-effect only. This thing couldn't really fly.

Big Cheese Make Hair Go Boom: I imagine the engineering and design meeting sounding like this:

Hughes: I want to build a huge sea plane
Design Team: Sounds good.
Hughes: I want to build it mostly out of wood
Design Team: Umm...yeah, you know we have lightweight materials like aluminum right?
Hughes: NO! Wood...delicious wood!
Design Team: Uhh, yeah...but its gonna weigh like 5 times more than it should, and the current engine technology just isn't powerful enough to get something like this airborne...
Hughes: ...Fark you! Build it!!!


And make me a combustable lemon that I can burn a house down with!

Wasn't there some "controversy" at one time over weather it did fly?

Big Cheese Make Hair Go Boom: I imagine the engineering and design meeting sounding like this:

Hughes: I want to build a huge sea plane
Design Team: Sounds good.
Hughes: I want to build it mostly out of wood
Design Team: Umm...yeah, you know we have lightweight materials like aluminum right?
Hughes: NO! Wood...delicious wood!
Design Team: Uhh, yeah...but its gonna weigh like 5 times more than it should, and the current engine technology just isn't powerful enough to get something like this airborne...
Hughes: ...Fark you! Build it!!!

H-4 Hercules (Spruce Goose)

Apparently there was wartime restriction on aluminum, so it wasn't Hughes saying "Fark you! Build it!!" it was
Uncle Sam saying "Fark you! Build it!!!". It probably would have worked if it was aluminum.

Sargun: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x374]


Mr. Burns: [holding a model airplane] We'll take the spruce moose! Hop in!
Smithers: But sir, it's just a mod...
Mr. Burns: [takes out a pistol] I said, "Hop in."

/done in one

I live about two miles from his grave in Houston.

Loved him in Up.

theresnothinglft: Apparently there was wartime restriction on aluminum, so it wasn't Hughes saying "Fark you! Build it!!" it was
Uncle Sam saying "Fark you! Build it!!!". It probably would have worked if it was aluminum.

Something I don't know, but did he have contacts with the feds to make or at least design stuff for them. I seriously doubt it would have been that hard to get the materials needed for one plane....pricey, sure, but not impossible. A fleet of them, yeah, sure, different story.

Big Cheese Make Hair Go Boom: I imagine the engineering and design meeting sounding like this:

Hughes: I want to build a huge sea plane
Design Team: Sounds good.
Hughes: I want to build it mostly out of wood
Design Team: Umm...yeah, you know we have lightweight materials like aluminum right?
Hughes: NO! Wood...delicious wood!
Design Team: Uhh, yeah...but its gonna weigh like 5 times more than it should, and the current engine technology just isn't powerful enough to get something like this airborne...
Hughes: ...Fark you! Build it!!!

To be fair, it was going to be a military transport, and Hughes thought strategic materials like aluminum would be scarce.

Not to defend a clearly crazy person, but when the DOD puts out a RFP for a new project there's usually reason behind it. Late in the war the rationing on materials was already pretty significant. The requirement for the transport plane to be built of "non-strategic materials" was no doubt because (when the RFP went out) the DOD believed they needed a fleet of these planes to replace U-boat vulnerable sea transports. Not just one.

Could they spare the aluminum for one plane? Likely. Would an aluminum plane fill the RFP? Even as a prototype? no.

Does it excuse the delays in delivery on this project? no.

Crunch61: Ground-effect only. This thing couldn't really fly.

Yep.

It's birch, not spruce...and it's farking amazing. I've been in the cockpit and even the design of that shows Hughes' astounding ego: the copilot had NO controls, his only job was to watch a bank of gauges, all the rest was up to Hughes.

amoral: Big Cheese Make Hair Go Boom: I imagine the engineering and design meeting sounding like this:

Hughes: I want to build a huge sea plane
Design Team: Sounds good.
Hughes: I want to build it mostly out of wood
Design Team: Umm...yeah, you know we have lightweight materials like aluminum right?
Hughes: NO! Wood...delicious wood!
Design Team: Uhh, yeah...but its gonna weigh like 5 times more than it should, and the current engine technology just isn't powerful enough to get something like this airborne...
Hughes: ...Fark you! Build it!!!

To be fair, it was going to be a military transport, and Hughes thought strategic materials like aluminum would be scarce.

Did you notice the War Department requirement that it be made of NON-STRATEGIC material? I love how detractors past and current like to omit that tiny fact.

From a purely engineering aspect yes it would fly. The short low altitude flight was actually illegal. He had taxi clearance only.

The Irresponsible Captain: Wasn't there some "controversy" at one time over weather it did fly?

It flew in the same way the Wright Brother's plane did. I don't think it got more that 100' altitude and did a loop around the harbor. Afterward, they drydocked it and that was it.

It is a massive damn structure. I wonder what good data came from that flight, other than they didn't have enough power.

As GC for Evergreen I'm kicking myself for not bringing this up in the meeting this morning.

simon_bar_sinister:

Did you notice the War Department requirement that it be made of NON-STRATEGIC material? I love how detractors past and current like to omit that tiny fact.



Can we point out the slight flaw that the test flight wasn't until two years after the war was over?

I just leafed through the wiki for Hughes, and it turns out that he had parts of 5 hypodermic needles in his body when he died, due to his codeine addiction.
*barfs*

q-u-a-r-a-n-t-i-n-e

McMinnville's (new window) a nice town to visit. The pinot vineyards nearby are nice too.

Just think if they'd had the engine power available to develop Ekranoplans... Sounds like that's almost what the Goose was.

hp6sa: simon_bar_sinister:

Did you notice the War Department requirement that it be made of NON-STRATEGIC material? I love how detractors past and current like to omit that tiny fact.



Can we point out the slight flaw that the test flight wasn't until two years after the war was over?

That was due to serious engineering issues during consturction. If the project was with anyone but Hughes, it would have been scrapped after war.

No Such Agency: Just think if they'd had the engine power available to develop Ekranoplans... Sounds like that's almost what the Goose was.

[images.thecarconnection.com image 640x356]

There has never been a cooler "flying" machine, as far as I am concerned.

/Love the Caspian Sea Monster

hp6sa: simon_bar_sinister:

Did you notice the War Department requirement that it be made of NON-STRATEGIC material? I love how detractors past and current like to omit that tiny fact.



Can we point out the slight flaw that the test flight wasn't until two years after the war was over?

Umm, given the nature of the RFP I kinda doubt that they had any assurances when it went out that there was a definite end date to the war. in fact, I'd say that the requirement for "non-strategic materials" was an indicator that the DOD really had no idea if the war had a definite end in sight and they were trying to plan for a protracted conflict that would be extremely resource intensive.

And if you think that delays in delivery of defense projects is the exception rather than the rule (no matter who the vendor is)... HAHA, that's a good one.

Subby fails at math - FTA - November 2, 1947: Howard Hughes sits in the cockpit of the Spruce Goose on the day of its celebrated, long-delayed test flight.

Headline: 65 years ago...

2011-65=1946...

/Math Nazi...

If you want to see the poster child for a ridiculously delayed defense project....

I give you the Zumwalt-class destroyer (DDG-1000)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt_class_destroyer

Crunch61: Ground-effect only. This thing couldn't really fly.

Came here to say this. Same as the guys who got a man-powered helicopter a foot or so off the ground. Even Paul MacCready's Gossamer Condor barely left ground effect.

/watched it fly - very cool

Phineas and Ferb approve

hem and haw about the spruce goose all you want, it was still a more logical design than the competitor's chitty chitty bang bang

globalwarmingpraiser: loki see loki do: Crunch61: Ground-effect only. This thing couldn't really fly.

Yep.

Wouldn't 70 feet above the water prove it isn't ground effects?

Ground effect altitude depends on wingspan. Huge wingspan, higher altitude.

Still waiting for the rocket pack Mr. Hughes.

MythDragon: Sargun: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x374]

[www.glidemagazine.com image 320x241]
Mr. Burns: [holding a model airplane] We'll take the spruce moose! Hop in!
Smithers: But sir, it's just a mod...
Mr. Burns: [takes out a pistol] I said, "Hop in."

Came for this, leaving satisfied.

(new window)

globalwarmingpraiser: loki see loki do: Crunch61: Ground-effect only. This thing couldn't really fly.

Yep.

Wouldn't 70 feet above the water prove it isn't ground effects?

not for an aircraft with a 319ft wingspan

Voiceofreason01: globalwarmingpraiser: loki see loki do: Crunch61: Ground-effect only. This thing couldn't really fly.

Yep.

Wouldn't 70 feet above the water prove it isn't ground effects?

not for an aircraft with a 319ft wingspan

I only know the math for rotorcraft, but below and altitude of 2x rotor length (1 wingspan) you get some degree of ground effect. At 1/4 wingspan (80 ft) you're probably looking at about a 40% boost in lift.

Howard Hughes for most of his life was the American ideal personified. We love smart, rich, innovative and inventive people. We elevate them to larger than life status. We revel in their triumphs and turn away shamefully from their despairs. Hughes was all of these things and so much more. He caught hold of budding industries and brought them to maturity. He made old things new again with new uses and made new things better. By force of will and determination. These same things that Hughes personified are what is largely lacking now. He developed systems to control and expedite projects, make better and faster machines, produce incredible entertainment.
Now we produce "Rich Industrious self made millionaires". These people did not get rich by actual work. They got there by abusing systems in place. By abusing trust.
Steve Jobs is an example of the former. Damn near everyone in banking and on Wall Street is an example of the latter.
To use current events to connect to Hughes, we need to 'occupy' industry with more Hughes's. Occupy prisons and gallows with bankers and brokers.
The Spruce Goose is a good example of American tenacity. It was ordered with a near impossible list of requirements. Yes it was over budget. No it didn't soar above the clouds. Given the chance it would have. Without the Goose and a lot of war time research we would not have massive flying machines we have now. With out Hughes and many like him we may have lost that war.

He was a REAL American. He was not alone. Why are there so few now?

I was over at the Evergreen Museum a couple weeks ago and was able to see the interior of the Goose. It had been closed for a while because there was no handicapped access. I'd seen it years ago when it was in Long Beach, CA, but just the exterior. An amazing machine even today. The reason it was underpowered is the original engine project was canceled and the installed engines were ~60% as powerful as needed. Ground effects can cut power requirements 10% and typically are noticeable at an altitude corresponding to the wingspan. Since no effort was ever made to take it out of ground effect, we will never know if it could have been flown as built.

Voiceofreason01: globalwarmingpraiser: loki see loki do: Crunch61: Ground-effect only. This thing couldn't really fly.

Yep.

Wouldn't 70 feet above the water prove it isn't ground effects?

not for an aircraft with a 319ft wingspan

However, had it really been able to have the range they were gunning for, that altitude would have worked for the intended purpose.