jjorsett: He's a trader, not a banker. Or has 'banker' become a generic pejorative term to apply to anyone who works in finance?

He's got bankers blood

jjorsett: Brontes: F*** you you worthless banking parasite. Have you ever produced anything in your miserable life? Easy money.....

He's a trader, not a banker. Or has 'banker' become a generic pejorative term to apply to anyone who works in finance?

His attitude is pervasive throughout the industry. Don't pretend that is not true.

if you get a cut for moving money, you are a parasite.

jjorsett: cenobyte40k: I don't care what you call his 'profession' he is a parasite on the world and he is advocating that everyone else try and be a parasite on the market as well.

Close2TheEdge: His attitude is pervasive throughout the industry. Don't pretend that is not true.

snuffy: if you get a cut for moving money, you are a parasite.

If you buy what someone else wants to sell, or sell what someone else wants to buy, that's not parasitism, that's participating in a business transaction, no different than buying a truckload of green beans from a farmer and then selling it in your grocery store. Thank God the majority of people still recognize that even if a strident few of you have gone off the deep end.

Thanks to the elimination of traditional pension vehicles for retirement savings, people are forced to put their money in the stock market based investment vehicles. Which this douchebag then uses like Monopoly money. Those people don't have a choice, and I highly doubt that he thinks twice in a year about their needs.

Please, spare me the sanctimonious free-market crap. I'm fully in favor of a market based economy. Wall Street bankers and traders have the mentality of parasites. This has been confirmed time and time and time again by their attitudes and actions. All the white knighting in the world by you will not change that fact.

Close2TheEdge: Thanks to the elimination of traditional pension vehicles for retirement savings, people are forced to put their money in the stock market based investment vehicles

Out of curiosity, what do you think that pension funds do with their money, keep it in a treasure chest on a desert island?

EatHam: Close2TheEdge: Thanks to the elimination of traditional pension vehicles for retirement savings, people are forced to put their money in the stock market based investment vehicles

Out of curiosity, what do you think that pension funds do with their money, keep it in a treasure chest on a desert island?

They put it in the market. What is your point exactly?

Close2TheEdge: EatHam: Close2TheEdge: Thanks to the elimination of traditional pension vehicles for retirement savings, people are forced to put their money in the stock market based investment vehicles

Out of curiosity, what do you think that pension funds do with their money, keep it in a treasure chest on a desert island?

They put it in the market. What is your point exactly?

Well, based on the sentence I quoted, it sounded very much like you were saying that because pensions have been eliminated, people are now forced to put money in stock market based investment vehicles. I was merely pointing out that their money was in stock market investment vehicles with or without pensions. Also, pensions have not been eliminated, and nobody is forced to put their money in the stock market.

EatHam: Close2TheEdge: EatHam: Close2TheEdge: Thanks to the elimination of traditional pension vehicles for retirement savings, people are forced to put their money in the stock market based investment vehicles

Out of curiosity, what do you think that pension funds do with their money, keep it in a treasure chest on a desert island?

They put it in the market. What is your point exactly?

Well, based on the sentence I quoted, it sounded very much like you were saying that because pensions have been eliminated, people are now forced to put money in stock market based investment vehicles. I was merely pointing out that their money was in stock market investment vehicles with or without pensions. Also, pensions have not been eliminated, and nobody is forced to put their money in the stock market.

And I will refer you back to my original point. The prevaling attitude on Wall Street is one of greed. And they use the money poured into the market by institutional investors (like pension funds) as the capital for the gambling. Now, you may argue that's a good thing, because greed fuels the attempt to bring back better returns for the pension funds and that ultimately benefits the members. I would have a tough time arguing against that.

But that is like saying, casinos are awesome because sometimes people win. Lots of times, people lose. And what's worse, they really don't have safe options that produce anything resembling a decent return. And we are not talking about found money here. We are talking about what people will need just to live in a future where Social Security is severely weakened (thanks to politicians who are part of the problem). If you want to have anything resembling a decent nest eegg, you have to put your money in the market, one way or another.

Is it really a good thing that the market drives all this? Look at yesterday. The market dropped over 250 points based solely on the political arrogance of the Greek Prime Minister and the ILLEGAL actions of a Wall Street firm. It's hard to see how those losses affect actual people but they do.

It would be nice if Wall Street types like the article writer would keep that in mind from time to time.

EatHam: Close2TheEdge: EatHam: Close2TheEdge: Thanks to the elimination of traditional pension vehicles for retirement savings, people are forced to put their money in the stock market based investment vehicles

Out of curiosity, what do you think that pension funds do with their money, keep it in a treasure chest on a desert island?

They put it in the market. What is your point exactly?

Well, based on the sentence I quoted, it sounded very much like you were saying that because pensions have been eliminated, people are now forced to put money in stock market based investment vehicles. I was merely pointing out that their money was in stock market investment vehicles with or without pensions. Also, pensions have not been eliminated, and nobody is forced to put their money in the stock market.

Put money in a savings account: Return Put money in bonds: Return 2%
Put money in real estate: Return -50%
Put Money in stocks: Return rand(), but quoted in the glossies as >10%*
*Past performance is no predictor of future returns

Inflation: 3.8%

No, nobody is literally put a gun to my head and saying "PUT YOUR MONEY IN STOCKS". But just about every other way to store money ensures it's going to be worth a lot less by the time you need it. And that loss is compounded with time.

Oh, and mathematically speaking, that stock is going to be trending down until we put the baby boomers in the ground. They are going to be taking money out in droves to support themselves in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

You know, not eating cat food and all.

Close2TheEdge: And I will refer you back to my original point. The prevaling attitude on Wall Street is one of greed. And they use the money poured into the market by institutional investors (like pension funds) as the capital for the gambling. Now, you may argue that's a good thing, because greed fuels the attempt to bring back better returns for the pension funds and that ultimately benefits the members. I would have a tough time arguing against that.

Investing is not gambling, not even close. And regardless of whether you believe that the attitude is one of greed on Wall Street, that attitude is hardly confined to them. Almost everyone who works does so because they want money. And most people will take a job that pays more over a job that pays less. I'm not sure what your point is, other than Wall Street Bad.

Close2TheEdge: Look at yesterday. The market dropped over 250 points based solely on the political arrogance of the Greek Prime Minister and the ILLEGAL actions of a Wall Street firm. It's hard to see how those losses affect actual people but they do.

A one day drop of 250 points doesn't really affect too many people, or it shouldn't. The majority of the people affected are people who are, as you say, part of the problem. Someone who is going to retire 30 years from now doesn't (or shouldn't) give two shiats about that.

Source4leko: as if anyone who is 30 or younger thinks they will ever get to do that.

In general, people under 30 are so mercurial that they believe that they will either retire tomorrow, or be forced labor in a salt mine until they are melted down for glue.

FitzShivering: So, I've been able to obtain a bigger gain than they have in 2011. And my method is statistically pure luck. The difference is, I'm not writing a newsletter claiming to have a magic formula because I beat the market in a period of high volatility. Which, I guess, if he's making any money out of that garbage, makes him the smart one.

He's demonstrating the Self Serving Bias.

kevinatilusa: Step 1: Promote 10 different investment strategies on 10 free websites under 10 pseudonyms.
Step 2: Take whichever one worked best, promote it as "beating 90% of all funds", and start charging for investment advice.
Step 3: Profit!

Step 1: Claim to be able to beat the market
Step 2: Post date supporting data

EatHam: Close2TheEdge: And I will refer you back to my original point. The prevaling attitude on Wall Street is one of greed. And they use the money poured into the market by institutional investors (like pension funds) as the capital for the gambling. Now, you may argue that's a good thing, because greed fuels the attempt to bring back better returns for the pension funds and that ultimately benefits the members. I would have a tough time arguing against that.

Investing is not gambling, not even close. And regardless of whether you believe that the attitude is one of greed on Wall Street, that attitude is hardly confined to them. Almost everyone who works does so because they want money. And most people will take a job that pays more over a job that pays less. I'm not sure what your point is, other than Wall Street Bad.

Close2TheEdge: Look at yesterday. The market dropped over 250 points based solely on the political arrogance of the Greek Prime Minister and the ILLEGAL actions of a Wall Street firm. It's hard to see how those losses affect actual people but they do.

A one day drop of 250 points doesn't really affect too many people, or it shouldn't. The majority of the people affected are people who are, as you say, part of the problem. Someone who is going to retire 30 years from now doesn't (or shouldn't) give two shiats about that.

I would heartily disagree but we could argue all day about it and not get anywhere. The volatility of the market is some of the worst I have ever seen in the last 10 years. There seems to be no concerted effort to reduce it. In fact, the increasing fight against regulations spearheaded by financial companies virtually ensures that it will only get worse. And yet, this is the primary investment vehicle for millions of Americans who want only to grow a decent nest egg for retirement.

Sorry, but there is something fundamentally wrong about that.

Close2TheEdge: The volatility of the market is some of the worst I have ever seen in the last 10 years. There seems to be no concerted effort to reduce it. In fact, the increasing fight against regulations spearheaded by financial companies virtually ensures that it will only get worse. And yet, this is the primary investment vehicle for millions of Americans who want only to grow a decent nest egg for retirement.

Sorry, but there is something fundamentally wrong about that.

See, there is a ton of regulation that's going in place to handle exactly that. There are curbs, individual security curbs, up/down collars, and a host of other things. What you see as fighting against regulation is, in some cases, just that, but in other cases, it is because proposed regulations are dumb, or counter productive, or have no basis in any kind of data that is available to anyone, anywhere. Also, the stock market is one part of the financial system, and only one instrument. There are tons of others, and they all have to be treated fairly, otherwise you end up playing whack a mole, regulating one, then the behavior surfaces elsewhere.