"have you noticed
The more they dole out Democracy over there
The more they take it away over here"
http://www.branchfloridians.org/pledge.html (new window)
~Jello Biafra

Well, to be fair, you're organizing an uprising on the INTERNET WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE YOU. The only surprise is they didn't have those guidelines already.

Nov 1
"The US Government is corrupt and must be brought down!"

164 DHS goons Liked this

Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

If you're surprised, you're just not paying attention.

The government loves people like you.

Mr. Pokeylope: If you're surprised, you're just not paying attention.

The government loves people like you.

Hey, I don't have time for such trivial things!

I need to watch E! since I heard the voted the transsexual daughter son of someone famous off Dancing With The Stars!

/Bread and Circuses

One of those "Well, duh, that's what I would do with tasked with something like that" very unhappy things.

Or even *when* tasked.

Doesn't every government see itself as the legitimate one and take steps to preserve itself? I fail to see the issue here.

As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

RobertBruce: Carnivore. Eschelon. What are they calling it this decade?

Gmail.

Freedom isn't free. And we're a little behind on the rent..

Clash City Farker: As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sure do. It's all laid out in our process of periodic elections. We could even decide to adopt Sharia Law if we wanted to. Democracy is fun like that.

If you don't want a revolution, put things back where they were before people starting getting pissed off.

I'd be a little more concerned about monitoring Twitter to prevent things like the London riots from earlier this year.

Nuclear Monk: Clash City Farker: As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sure do. It's all laid out in our process of periodic elections. We could even decide to adopt Sharia Law if we wanted to. Democracy is fun like that.

There's more to it than that. We have the right, some say the moral obligation to defend our freedoms from tyranny with the force of arms.

They would shut down the Internet in this country faster than you can say "GO USA"

Clash City Farker: Nuclear Monk: Clash City Farker: As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sure do. It's all laid out in our process of periodic elections. We could even decide to adopt Sharia Law if we wanted to. Democracy is fun like that.

There's more to it than that. We have the right, some say the moral obligation to defend our freedoms from tyranny with the force of arms.

Wouldn't you have to define tyranny as something done outside our democratic processes?

Who does "We, the morally obligated" become if majorities and supermajorities of the population and their duly elected representatives vote for something? Wouldn't those who disagree and instigate a violent revolution be the ones, in fact, attempting to impose the tyranny?

Governments are relatively easy to overthrow.

The real challenge is replacing it with something better.

I really haven't seen this yet.

HA HA HA

There are about 100 PhD students working on this RIGHT NOW in an attempt to get a doctorate out of it.

Huh, how bout that.

Nuclear Monk: Clash City Farker: As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sure do. It's all laid out in our process of periodic elections. We could even decide to adopt Sharia Law if we wanted to. Democracy is fun like that.

Pop quiz: What do you do when the electoral process itself becomes subverted by financial and industrial interests outside the control and even the understanding of the voting public at large; when the constitution becomes subtly rewritten by judicial precedent to permit atrocities in foreign lands and at home; when civil disobedience is recast as treason; when the people are coerced into voting against their own self-interest by a well-oiled propaganda machine run not from the top, or the bottom, but from the side, outside the structure of democratic process, whose very function is to present a series of bogeymen custom-tailored to every political leaning, all for the purpose of making the people ignore the men behind the curtain? What do you do?

WHAT DO YOU DO?

Nuclear Monk: Clash City Farker: Nuclear Monk: Clash City Farker: As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sure do. It's all laid out in our process of periodic elections. We could even decide to adopt Sharia Law if we wanted to. Democracy is fun like that.

There's more to it than that. We have the right, some say the moral obligation to defend our freedoms from tyranny with the force of arms.

Wouldn't you have to define tyranny as something done outside our democratic processes?

No. Any form of government can become tyrranical.


Who does "We, the morally obligated" become if majorities and supermajorities of the population and their duly elected representatives vote for something? Wouldn't those who disagree and instigate a violent revolution be the ones, in fact, attempting to impose the tyranny?

Not necessarily. There have been a few tyrannical governments that have been voted in to power in other countires. if the citizens had revolted because those governments were doing bad things to a portion of the population, wouldnt the revolutionaries be morally right?

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Nuclear Monk: Clash City Farker: As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sure do. It's all laid out in our process of periodic elections. We could even decide to adopt Sharia Law if we wanted to. Democracy is fun like that.

Pop quiz: What do you do when the electoral process itself becomes subverted by financial and industrial interests outside the control and even the understanding of the voting public at large; when the constitution becomes subtly rewritten by judicial precedent to permit atrocities in foreign lands and at home; when civil disobedience is recast as treason; when the people are coerced into voting against their own self-interest by a well-oiled propaganda machine run not from the top, or the bottom, but from the side, outside the structure of democratic process, whose very function is to present a series of bogeymen custom-tailored to every political leaning, all for the purpose of making the people ignore the men behind the curtain? What do you do?

WHAT DO YOU DO?

Shoot the hostage.

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Nuclear Monk: Clash City Farker: As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sure do. It's all laid out in our process of periodic elections. We could even decide to adopt Sharia Law if we wanted to. Democracy is fun like that.

Pop quiz: What do you do when the electoral process itself becomes subverted by financial and industrial interests outside the control and even the understanding of the voting public at large; when the constitution becomes subtly rewritten by judicial precedent to permit atrocities in foreign lands and at home; when civil disobedience is recast as treason; when the people are coerced into voting against their own self-interest by a well-oiled propaganda machine run not from the top, or the bottom, but from the side, outside the structure of democratic process, whose very function is to present a series of bogeymen custom-tailored to every political leaning, all for the purpose of making the people ignore the men behind the curtain? What do you do?

WHAT DO YOU DO?

You take back what you lost before it's too late to try.

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Nuclear Monk: Clash City Farker: As Americans, we have the right to change the government if the government becomes destructive to our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sure do. It's all laid out in our process of periodic elections. We could even decide to adopt Sharia Law if we wanted to. Democracy is fun like that.

Pop quiz: What do you do when the electoral process itself becomes subverted by financial and industrial interests outside the control and even the understanding of the voting public at large; when the constitution becomes subtly rewritten by judicial precedent to permit atrocities in foreign lands and at home; when civil disobedience is recast as treason; when the people are coerced into voting against their own self-interest by a well-oiled propaganda machine run not from the top, or the bottom, but from the side, outside the structure of democratic process, whose very function is to present a series of bogeymen custom-tailored to every political leaning, all for the purpose of making the people ignore the men behind the curtain? What do you do?

WHAT DO YOU DO?

Well...if you know all these things are going on, clearly the propaganda isn't all THAT powerful. There is nothing stopping anyone from writing about such things or running for office on platforms to change such things. While it's fun to pile on corporations right now, they too have legitimate interests that need to be considered for the good of the nation.

(Before you jump on me...I'm very supportive of the OWS movement and sincerely want our economic policies and tax codes to return the distribution of wealth to something more equitable then it currently is).

People are free to vote against their own self-interests...it's part of the whole freedom thing. I'll never understand why a poor person would vote Republican, but I respect their right to do so.

As for WHAT DO YOU DO...well, you express you opinions in the many forums available, you point oiut hypocrisy when you see it, you participate in the political process on the local, state, and national levels, you instill your values in your children, and you strive to be a leader in whatever career you find yourself in.

It's hokey sounding, sure, but it's all right there.


As for people voting in tyrannies...well...that might just be a flaw in their system:). To change our fundamental government processes, constitutional amendments a necessary, and that process ultimately lies with the states, not the federal government.

Despite popular opinion, we could use a few more people like Jared Loughner

Fat-D: Despite popular opinion, we could use a few more people like Jared Loughner

Oh yes...child murdering gunmen who contribute to a fearful society are EXACTLY the sort of thing we need more of.

Fat-D: Despite popular opinion, we could use a few more people like Jared Loughner

What, undiagnosed Schizophrenics?

Nah.

I am the worst person ever: Despite popular opinion, we could use a few more people like Jared Loughner

Fixed your login.

When 75%+ of the country rises up all the DHS and NSA and CIA in the world isn't going to save their asses.

davidphogan: RobertBruce: Carnivore. Eschelon. What are they calling it this decade?

Gmail.

Monitoring and cracking social networking sites are easy. It's Skype that has the Feds shiatting their pants. Sure, they can see you're using it, and they can eventually crack any given conversation, but the company changes its encryption frequently and does not cooperate with government snoops. Skype is what all the serious trouble makers are using.

BRB...door.

is that what they're doing? I mean I got the whole twitter connexion but are they really trying to ape the middle east?

In a real revolution you need somebody to fire the first shots. The only way we are going to get this country back is by spilling the blood of those who have eroded the liberties we once enjoyed.

/Love thy country
//Fear thy government

Remember Citizen, it's not fascism when we do it.

Fat-D: In a real revolution you need somebody to fire the first shots. The only way we are going to get this country back is by spilling the blood of those who have eroded the liberties we once enjoyed.

/Love thy country
//Fear thy government

You have to make sure it's not the lunatics doing the first shooting. Nobody wants the Mormons or the Illinois Nazis starting the 2nd American Revolution.

Smeggy Smurf: Fat-D: In a real revolution you need somebody to fire the first shots. The only way we are going to get this country back is by spilling the blood of those who have eroded the liberties we once enjoyed.

/Love thy country
//Fear thy government

You have to make sure it's not the lunatics doing the first shooting. Nobody wants the Mormons or the Illinois Nazis starting the 2nd American Revolution.

I don`t think anyone other than a loony will start the shooting. Maybe politicians will start being better representatives of the people they govern if they are a little bit scared of those people

I hate Illinois Nazis.

Smeggy Smurf :

Monitoring and cracking social networking sites are easy. It's Skype that has the Feds shiatting their pants. Sure, they can see you're using it, and they can eventually crack any given conversation, but the company changes its encryption frequently and does not cooperate with government snoops. Skype is what all the serious trouble makers are using.

Well, okay, when's the last time you encrypted an email? PGP is pretty tight and easy to use, but no one ever uses it. And an encrypted email stands out. If we all sent things at least signed, perhaps not so much.

Also... SKYPE is where the cypherpunks are hanging out?

Nuclear Monk: It's hokey sounding, sure, but it's all right there.

Man, I want to live in your world, where doing the right thing actually works.

Fat-D: I don`t think anyone other than a loony will start the shooting.

If a looney starts the shooting, he's just a dangerous looney. It's when the sane people start the shooting that tyrants shiat their pants.

it's happening right now, people are demanding actual democracy in the usa
instead of this thievery from the american people in the name of war-
whether war on terrorism, drugs, other countries...

all of your resources going to anyplace and anyone but you the american public who's paying for it.
paying for hate and murder and ignorance.

i would be ashamed if i was american and wasn't protesting