This can't be correct - I thought everyone in WV was a hillbilly and would not have the ability to be this proactive - if anything, I thought they would just burn couches at the Big East headquarters until they just asked them to leave

The Big East does the wrong thing at literally every turn. Forcing WVU to stay for another 2 years isn't going to help save the conference, it's just going to make everyone else realize what a vindictive, incompetent moron John Marinatto is.

bubbaprog: Yanks_RSJ: The Big East does the wrong thing at literally every turn. Forcing WVU to stay for another 2 years isn't going to help save the conference, it's just going to make everyone else realize what a vindictive, incompetent moron John Marinatto is.

It buys them another two years for Villanova to develop its program, and probably bring Temple back.

LOL. There are many high school stadiums bigger than Villanova's. And Temple? The team that sucked so bad they got kicked out of the worst AQ conference? Yeah, I think that kind of proves WVU's point. When this is your great plan to make the conference viable, you done farked up.

bubbaprog: It buys them another two years for Villanova to develop its program, and probably bring Temple back.

I thought Villanova said that they would block a move to being in Temple.

bubbaprog: Yanks_RSJ: The Big East does the wrong thing at literally every turn. Forcing WVU to stay for another 2 years isn't going to help save the conference, it's just going to make everyone else realize what a vindictive, incompetent moron John Marinatto is.

It buys them another two years for Villanova to develop its program, and probably bring Temple back.

I'll give you Temple, I'm a big proponent of the ACC adding them instead of UConn. I don't think either one of them are going to help salvage the Big East as an AQ conference though.

The B.E. could have saved themselves, but didn't. None of the conference teams, current or soon-to-be-former, want to admit it, but they kind of liked being in the weakest AQ conference, with the only danger of losing said AQ designation being A) someone other than Boise in the MWC being good for several years in a row, or, B) the dissolution of the BSC altogether. If, as soon as Pitt and Syracuse and TCU all announced their departures, the conference had immediately leapt at Houston, Boise, and the service academies, the remaining B.E. schools--WVU included, I believe--probably would have been happy to stick around, knowing their veritable cake walk to a BCS game was protected, for at least as long as there was a BCS period.

Instead, though, the conference, up to this time, has only reached the point of "Hey, we're almost ready to give our leader the power to start maybe thinking about inviting some other schools." Faced with that, WVU--or any school--would be crazy to not jump at the first opportunity to jump ship.

The Big East did this to themselves.

Up next: the Big East sues ESPN for encouraging Pitt and Syracuse to leave.

Big East is expected to extend and invitation to Boise State today. Due diligence has been going on among all the schools involved

West Virginia knew, at least since 2003, when they helped put this 27month exit window into place, and again 2 months ago when Pitt and Syracuse agreed to a 27 month exit from the Big East before they begin ACC play

West Virginia filed this in local State Court knowing that as an arm of the West Virginia Government the Big East may have difficulty in removing this to a Federal Court.

The Big 12 is desperate to have West Virginia in place by 2012 so they don't breach their television contract. The Big East may sue the Big 12 for Tortuous Interference.

WVU grounds are weak. Most of the things they complain about are things their President voted on.

weiserfireman: Big East is expected to extend and invitation to Boise State today. Due diligence has been going on among all the schools involved

West Virginia knew, at least since 2003, when they helped put this 27month exit window into place, and again 2 months ago when Pitt and Syracuse agreed to a 27 month exit from the Big East before they begin ACC play

West Virginia filed this in local State Court knowing that as an arm of the West Virginia Government the Big East may have difficulty in removing this to a Federal Court.

The Big 12 is desperate to have West Virginia in place by 2012 so they don't breach their television contract. The Big East may sue the Big 12 for Tortuous Interference.

WVU grounds are weak. Most of the things they complain about are things their President voted on.

IANAL, but, seems to me, from what I've read, the B.E. has kind of farked itself here, by A) accepting the $2.5 million downpayment (it can be implied that by taking the money early, the Big East understood WVU planned on leaving early; and, B) not holding TCU to the 27-month exit period

TCU wasn't a member yet. They had accepted an invitation, but were not going to become a member or begin play until July 1, 2012. Bylaws didn't account for that kind of situation. TCU did pay the $5 million

WVU owed a $5 million exit fee. That is not in dispute. It wouldn't be unusual to break the payment up into installments. Paying half of the exit fee and saying "by accepting my partial payment you agree to waive any other requirements" is not legal and will be ignored by the court.

It would be the same as you putting "FINAL PAYMENT" in the memo field for a payment on a car, when you have 3 more years to pay, then expecting that the bank will let you off the hook because "they agreed to your new terms by cashing the check". Courts don't look favorably at people who add "Noise" to normal business transactions

weiserfireman: TCU wasn't a member yet. They had accepted an invitation, but were not going to become a member or begin play until July 1, 2012. Bylaws didn't account for that kind of situation. TCU did pay the $5 million

WVU owed a $5 million exit fee. That is not in dispute. It wouldn't be unusual to break the payment up into installments. Paying half of the exit fee and saying "by accepting my partial payment you agree to waive any other requirements" is not legal and will be ignored by the court.

It would be the same as you putting "FINAL PAYMENT" in the memo field for a payment on a car, when you have 3 more years to pay, then expecting that the bank will let you off the hook because "they agreed to your new terms by cashing the check". Courts don't look favorably at people who add "Noise" to normal business transactions

Yeah, but WVU is going to argue that by not acting proactively to keep the B.E. from imploding that the school's hand was forced.

And besides, I don't think anyone believes this lawsuit is designed to get the B.E. to throw up their hands and say, "Okay, you win. See you guys on the flipside." It's designed to bring about the following conversation:

Big East: Okay, Christ, you guys...what's it gonna take to make this go away?
WVU: We'll give you an extra $X
Big East: Fine. Whatever.

CalvinMorallis: weiserfireman: TCU wasn't a member yet. They had accepted an invitation, but were not going to become a member or begin play until July 1, 2012. Bylaws didn't account for that kind of situation. TCU did pay the $5 million

WVU owed a $5 million exit fee. That is not in dispute. It wouldn't be unusual to break the payment up into installments. Paying half of the exit fee and saying "by accepting my partial payment you agree to waive any other requirements" is not legal and will be ignored by the court.

It would be the same as you putting "FINAL PAYMENT" in the memo field for a payment on a car, when you have 3 more years to pay, then expecting that the bank will let you off the hook because "they agreed to your new terms by cashing the check". Courts don't look favorably at people who add "Noise" to normal business transactions

Yeah, but WVU is going to argue that by not acting proactively to keep the B.E. from imploding that the school's hand was forced.

And besides, I don't think anyone believes this lawsuit is designed to get the B.E. to throw up their hands and say, "Okay, you win. See you guys on the flipside." It's designed to bring about the following conversation:

Big East: Okay, Christ, you guys...what's it gonna take to make this go away?
WVU: We'll give you an extra $X
Big East: Fine. Whatever.

I agree, it is a ploy to open negotiations.

For example, the Big East Presidents are meeting right now. They want to add Boise State (it is rumored) but if Boise State tries to leave the Mountain West after this season, and they make a BCS bowl, BSU's exit fee could be as high as $21 million. BSU can't and won't pay that kind of fee, so wouldn't move to the Big East until 2013, so they can just pay their normal $5 million fee. Maybe the Big East says "You can go early if you pay BSU's MWC exit fee so they can take your place next year".

Anything is possible at this point

BIG XII
NORTH - Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia (pending)
BYU - as soon as they work out their TV network deal a la UT's Longhorn Network.
Louisville - original choice of Big XII presidents but WV gave them better TV numbers, not in terms of market share but in matchups to sell to networks. League adds them to reach 12 teams and host a championship again.

SOUTH - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, Texas Christian (pending)

National Athletic Conference
BIG EAST - South Florida, Cincinnati, Central Florida (invited), Navy(invited)
Temple - basketball power with improving football program gives the league a presence in Phila. "B-B-but they were kicked out... blah bla" times have changed and that means nothing now.
East Carolina - gets the invite if league feels the football side needs strengthened a little more otherwise...
Memphis - terrible football program but outstanding basketball school helps bolster a league now missing Syracuse, Pitt and WV.

BIG WEST - Air Force (invited), Boise State (invited), Southern Methodist (invited), Houston (invited)
San Diego State - adds a presence in California as well as another excellent basketball program.
Fresno State - solidifies the Colifornia market presence and has always beed a good team under Pat Hill.

Should the "New" Big East/West feel the need to go to 14 teams for added protection you could see the East take ECU and Memphis rather than just one or the other and the West add Nevada or Hawaii. I did not include UCONN or Rutgers to the East as I believe they are heading to the ACC at some point.

weiserfireman: CalvinMorallis: weiserfireman: TCU wasn't a member yet. They had accepted an invitation, but were not going to become a member or begin play until July 1, 2012. Bylaws didn't account for that kind of situation. TCU did pay the $5 million

WVU owed a $5 million exit fee. That is not in dispute. It wouldn't be unusual to break the payment up into installments. Paying half of the exit fee and saying "by accepting my partial payment you agree to waive any other requirements" is not legal and will be ignored by the court.

It would be the same as you putting "FINAL PAYMENT" in the memo field for a payment on a car, when you have 3 more years to pay, then expecting that the bank will let you off the hook because "they agreed to your new terms by cashing the check". Courts don't look favorably at people who add "Noise" to normal business transactions

Yeah, but WVU is going to argue that by not acting proactively to keep the B.E. from imploding that the school's hand was forced.

And besides, I don't think anyone believes this lawsuit is designed to get the B.E. to throw up their hands and say, "Okay, you win. See you guys on the flipside." It's designed to bring about the following conversation:

Big East: Okay, Christ, you guys...what's it gonna take to make this go away?
WVU: We'll give you an extra $X
Big East: Fine. Whatever.

I agree, it is a ploy to open negotiations.

For example, the Big East Presidents are meeting right now. They want to add Boise State (it is rumored) but if Boise State tries to leave the Mountain West after this season, and they make a BCS bowl, BSU's exit fee could be as high as $21 million. BSU can't and won't pay that kind of fee, so wouldn't move to the Big East until 2013, so they can just pay their normal $5 million fee. Maybe the Big East says "You can go early if you pay BSU's MWC exit fee so they can take your place next year".

Anything is possible at this point

Yeah, but, again, I'd argue it's a justifiable ploy. We've all known, for weeks now, since before even TCU bolted, that Boise State is the holy grail for the B.E. And only now, after WVU is gone, and after Lousiville has made it official they want to be gone, and after even Rutgers has entered into the conversation of schools that might want to be gone, is the conference MAYBE finally inviting Boise State.

WVU had to jump. The conference gave them no choice.

the1hatman: BIG XII
NORTH - Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia (pending)
BYU - as soon as they work out their TV network deal a la UT's Longhorn Network.
Louisville - original choice of Big XII presidents but WV gave them better TV numbers, not in terms of market share but in matchups to sell to networks. League adds them to reach 12 teams and host a championship again.

SOUTH - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, Texas Christian (pending)

National Athletic Conference
BIG EAST - South Florida, Cincinnati, Central Florida (invited), Navy(invited)
Temple - basketball power with improving football program gives the league a presence in Phila. "B-B-but they were kicked out... blah bla" times have changed and that means nothing now.
East Carolina - gets the invite if league feels the football side needs strengthened a little more otherwise...
Memphis - terrible football program but outstanding basketball school helps bolster a league now missing Syracuse, Pitt and WV.

BIG WEST - Air Force (invited), Boise State (invited), Southern Methodist (invited), Houston (invited)
San Diego State - adds a presence in California as well as another excellent basketball program.
Fresno State - solidifies the Colifornia market presence and has always beed a good team under Pat Hill.

Should the "New" Big East/West feel the need to go to 14 teams for added protection you could see the East take ECU and Memphis rather than just one or the other and the West add Nevada or Hawaii. I did not include UCONN or Rutgers to the East as I believe they are heading to the ACC at some point.

To throw a fly in your ointment, in Boise there is a strong rumor that BSU has been pressuring to have BYU included in this round of invitations to the Big East

BYU's pull back from the Big XII had as much to do with their refusal to play any sporting events on Sunday as it did the TV stuff (in the press releases it was coded as "Cultural Differences)

Oh and Texas and Oklahoma don't want a Championship game anymore. Both schools feel like the Championship hurt them in the BCS computers too much

I'm annoyed at all the conference realignments. I wish they would stick with regional areas. How are the t.v. rights going to work? Once WVU goes to the Big 12 does that mean West Virgina's games will be shown locally in Big 12 areas? Part of why I love college football is the tradition. Every conference has specific games that are played every year that the realignment is going to fark up. Alabama/UT in late October, not if Auburn moves to the east. The same thing would happen to the Iron Bowl. I'm sure there are games like this in other conferences, but I live in SEC country so that's what I'm most familiar with.

CalvinMorallis: And besides, I don't think anyone believes this lawsuit is designed to get the B.E. to throw up their hands and say, "Okay, you win. See you guys on the flipside." It's designed to bring about the following conversation:

Big East: Okay, Christ, you guys...what's it gonna take to make this go away?
WVU: We'll give you an extra $X
Big East: Fine. Whatever.

Nailed it. The Big East is losing its AQ bid at this point, no question. When the BCS is rehashed I think they'll turn the Big East's bid into an at large bid. The #3 PAC-12, B1G, or SEC school is going to draw a larger crowd in a bowl than the #1 out of the new Big East. So really at this point the Big East has nothing to gain by WVU sticking around aside from a cut of whatever TV/bowl money WVU would earn between now and then.

B12 meanwhile wants to avoid farking up its TV contract. So I'm betting the B12 loans (or gifts) WVU some cash, WVU pays the Big East and the Big East can go use that money to develop its programs. That's really the only strategy the Big East has left. 5 million exit fee from Pitt, from 'Cuse, from TCU, and WVU. That's 20 million. Let them leave early if they pay more. Use those funds to make interest free loans to the football schools in the conference and try to build them up. Hope in another 5 or 10 years when the BCS gets renewed again you're built up enough to get your autobid back.

CalvinMorallis: It's designed to bring about the following conversation:

Big East: Okay, Christ, you guys...what's it gonna take to make this go away?
WVU: We'll give you an extra $X
Big East: Fine. Whatever.

Exactly. I doubt any one in the Big East office cares to go through a deposition, let alone a jury trial.

Big East knows there the bones are hidden. If the BCS pulls their AQ bid, expect them to start singing like a canary

With their rumored slate of football invites, their BCS conference strength numbers, this season, would be very similar to the ACCs. Even without WVU, Pitt or Syracuse

ModernPrimitive01: I'm annoyed at all the conference realignments. I wish they would stick with regional areas. How are the t.v. rights going to work? Once WVU goes to the Big 12 does that mean West Virgina's games will be shown locally in Big 12 areas? Part of why I love college football is the tradition. Every conference has specific games that are played every year that the realignment is going to fark up. Alabama/UT in late October, not if Auburn moves to the east. The same thing would happen to the Iron Bowl. I'm sure there are games like this in other conferences, but I live in SEC country so that's what I'm most familiar with.

A southerner who feels threatened by change? I am SHOCKED!

/shocked I say!

If this does get tied up and WV can't come over to the B12 for a few years I wonder what this does with the Mizzou SEC move.

Mizzou may be liable to the B12 for lost tv revenue if they leave and B12 has less than 10 teams, from my understanding.

I just really want this sorted out so I know whether to start scouting the SEC for potential matchups next year or whether to stick with watching the good ol' B12.

Seems like the timeframe on this getting sorted out needs to be soon, and I wonder how much it effects potential recruits.

/Mizzou

chuggernaught: A southerner who feels threatened by change? I am SHOCKED!

Well, not all change is necessarily for the better. Is there anyone that can honestly say WVU makes perfect sense in the Big12? Obviously WVU had no choice but to go, and it works well for the Big12 considering its situation, but there's a reason why the school has played a combined 13 games against the other 9 Big12 schools in its history.

Imagine that 25 years ago a group of football fans are in a bar, and someone says that in 2012 WVU will be in a conference with Texas, Penn State will be in a different conference with Nebraska, and Pitt will be in another different conference with Florida State. What do you think the reaction would have been? It's pretty sad that eastern football as we knew it is dead thanks to the lack of foresight by those involved.

Menace II Sobriety: If this does get tied up and WV can't come over to the B12 for a few years I wonder what this does with the Mizzou SEC move.

Mizzou may be liable to the B12 for lost tv revenue if they leave and B12 has less than 10 teams, from my understanding.

I just really want this sorted out so I know whether to start scouting the SEC for potential matchups next year or whether to stick with watching the good ol' B12.

Seems like the timeframe on this getting sorted out needs to be soon, and I wonder how much it effects potential recruits.

/Mizzou

I don't know about Missouri, but people have asked Boise State's potential recruits that question. Most of them, if they say anything, say that it is a fun discussion to follow, they have talked to the coaches about it, but it doesn't affect their decision making either way.

Missouri may have a recruit or two that only wants to play in the SEC. If they are SEC or nothing, it may prevent them from committing to you

weiserfireman: To throw a fly in your ointment, in Boise there is a strong rumor that BSU has been pressuring to have BYU included in this round of invitations to the Big East

BYU's pull back from the Big XII had as much to do with their refusal to play any sporting events on Sunday as it did the TV stuff (in the press releases it was coded as "Cultural Differences)

While I am sure that is a consideration I don't think it will play a major factor in the end. The Utah Jazz have a deal with the NBA not to schedule games on Sundays. If the NBA can do it I think the Big XII could pull it off. When you consider the national audience that BYU offers the conference plus the fact that most college sports do not take place on Sundays anyway I think the Big XII will find it worth it to make some minor schedule changes.

the1hatman: weiserfireman: To throw a fly in your ointment, in Boise there is a strong rumor that BSU has been pressuring to have BYU included in this round of invitations to the Big East

BYU's pull back from the Big XII had as much to do with their refusal to play any sporting events on Sunday as it did the TV stuff (in the press releases it was coded as "Cultural Differences)

While I am sure that is a consideration I don't think it will play a major factor in the end. The Utah Jazz have a deal with the NBA not to schedule games on Sundays. If the NBA can do it I think the Big XII could pull it off. When you consider the national audience that BYU offers the conference plus the fact that most college sports do not take place on Sundays anyway I think the Big XII will find it worth it to make some minor schedule changes.

All I know is that when the Utah Media reported on the breakdown in talks with the Big XII, BYU officials were quoted as saying there were insurmountable cultural differences. People in this region took that to mean that Sunday play was an issue. It is one absolute that BYU won't budge on.

the1hatman: While I am sure that is a consideration I don't think it will play a major factor in the end. The Utah Jazz have a deal with the NBA not to schedule games on Sundays. If the NBA can do it I think the Big XII could pull it off. When you consider the national audience that BYU offers the conference plus the fact that most college sports do not take place on Sundays anyway I think the Big XII will find it worth it to make some minor schedule changes.

It's a little more complicated as far as BYU goes in a conference. From looking at past schedules, the Jazz will still play away games on Sundays during the regular season and home playoff games on Sundays. BYU refuses to let any of its teams play on Sundays at any point.

That means all of the conference championship tournaments that typically have games on Sundays would have to be adjusted to accommodate BYU, and regular season schedules would have to be moved around as well. As you said it's certainly not an insurmountable problem, but it'd definitely be a pain in the ass to deal with.

Breaking news on Twitter from the Big East Meetings

Goal is to go to 12 teams in Football, invites will go out over the next week to Football Only and All Sports Schools, no names released today, but the University Presidents approved the list of schools unanimously

Lou Brown:Well, not all change is necessarily for the better. Is there anyone that can honestly say WVU makes perfect sense in the Big12? Obviously WVU had no choice but to go, and it works well for the Big12 considering its situation, but there's a reason why the school has played a combined 13 games against the other 9 Big12 schools in its history.

I believe this change is very much for the better. It's better for WV and better for the Big XII so how is this bad? Who is WV's big rival in the Big East anyway? What are they really leaving behind now that Pitt is gone? What game do you think has a bigger draw, WV-Syracuse or WV-Texas? This is a win-win for the 2 parties involved.

Imagine that 25 years ago a group of football fans are in a bar, and someone says that in 2012 WVU will be in a conference with Texas, Penn State will be in a different conference with Nebraska, and Pitt will be in another different conference with Florida State. What do you think the reaction would have been? It's pretty sad that eastern football as we knew it is dead thanks to the lack of foresight by those involved.

20 some years ago Miami joined the same conference (the Big East) as Pitt so I don't think the guy next to you in the bar would think it was all that weird. As for your PSU and Nebraska example I think you are taking it to the extreme. Is it odd that tOSU and PSU are in the same conference? Do you find it strange that Iowa and Nebraska are now rivals? Not a bit.

The "regional footprint" thing is simply not applicable in today's digital media market anyway. Your rivals do not have to be next door anymore and the big games are carried nationally for the most part.

Keep in mind also that the 2 conferences seeing the most change, the BE and Big XII, are only 20 (football) and 15 years old respectively. This is not Georgia joining the Pac 12 or Michigan moving to the SEC. These 2 conferences have been in a state of flux since their inceptions so the idea that teams keep coming and going is actually PART of their "traditions". This is not change for the sake of change and it is nothing new. What you see happening now has actually been the norm for a long time so unless Florida suddenly patitions to join the B1G you needn't worry too much about radical change.

FreakinB: Lou Brown: It's pretty sad that eastern football as we knew it is dead thanks to the lack of foresight by those involved

Screw football for a second. This whole thing devestates the Big East basketball tournament. That's really all I care about as far as college conferences are concerned.

That said, I do wish they would have just cut the shiat and realigned all at once instead of this gradual crap.

Actually, B.E. basketball is still okay. Assume that the conference's invites get accepted, and that Lousiville goes (all indications are they're B12-bound, eventually) and you still have a conference consisting of Villanova, Georgetown, Memphis, UCONN, Louisville, Marquette, Houston and Notre Dame. That still makes them arguably the best basketball conference in the country. The only real difference is that from now on we'd have to call them "arguably" the best, instead of simply the best.

Of course, this is all contingent on the Big East completely turning their game of fail around.

FreakinB: Screw football for a second. This whole thing devestates the Big East basketball tournament. That's really all I care about as far as college conferences are concerned.

Yeah, as a WVU fan I'll definitely miss it. It'll be a lot of fun seeing Kansas in the Coliseum, but as far as basketball is concerned nothing will compare to the Big East over the past few years.

weiserfireman: Breaking news on Twitter from the Big East Meetings

Goal is to go to 12 teams in Football, invites will go out over the next week to Football Only and All Sports Schools, no names released today, but the University Presidents approved the list of schools unanimously

And how many will join when Boise State says no?

merkey88: weiserfireman: Breaking news on Twitter from the Big East Meetings

Goal is to go to 12 teams in Football, invites will go out over the next week to Football Only and All Sports Schools, no names released today, but the University Presidents approved the list of schools unanimously

And how many will join when Boise State says no?

The sad, yet predictable, thing is, though: had they invited Boise as soon as Pitt and Syracuse announced they were leaving (because we all know it's been the plan all along) Boise would almost undoubtedly say yes, TCU and WVU don't leave, and you're looking at a conference that was stronger than when all this mess started.

But, instead, it takes six weeks to release the following statement: "We're ready to invite some schools, Maybe"

Good question. Many people say BSU is a linchpin in all this

I think UCF says yes. Its a nice fit for them with USF in the same conference. The western schools, don't know. I don't think AFA goes without BSU.

BSU doesn't have a home for their Olympic Sports yet if it isn't an all-sports offer. If it is an all-sports offer, travel for those sports will be a b***h. Big West or Big Sky conferences look like the best bet.

A contract is a contract and buyouts are nonnegotiable. Anyone who says otherwise is a crook. Or does that only apply to Rich Rodriguez?

CalvinMorallis: merkey88: weiserfireman: Breaking news on Twitter from the Big East Meetings

Goal is to go to 12 teams in Football, invites will go out over the next week to Football Only and All Sports Schools, no names released today, but the University Presidents approved the list of schools unanimously

And how many will join when Boise State says no?

The sad, yet predictable, thing is, though: had they invited Boise as soon as Pitt and Syracuse announced they were leaving (because we all know it's been the plan all along) Boise would almost undoubtedly say yes, TCU and WVU don't leave, and you're looking at a conference that was stronger than when all this mess started.

But, instead, it takes six weeks to release the following statement: "We're ready to invite some schools, Maybe"

It would have been a real stretch to invite BSU at that point though. The conference and the school had never talked. Idaho is a long long ways away from the Big East Footprint. To expand that far west without some due diligence was a long long reach.

Even now, it is a toss up whether or not it can work.

As far as TCU, their dream was always to be in the Big XII. In reality, they were lost as soon as Texas A&M bolted to the SEC. For them, the Big XII is a natural fit and a return to their Southwest Conference days. I don't think the Big East could have held on to them no matter who they added. Well, maybe. If the Big East would have invited Texas and Oklahoma, TCU would have stayed. But not for BSU

chuggernaught:

A southerner who feels threatened by change? I am SHOCKED!

/shocked I say!

Actually I'm as far liberal as they come, but change can be good or bad. Change that doesn't make sense is bad.

/Sorry to bring politics in the football thread. Back to your regularly scheduled derp
//SEC SEC SEC
///just kidding
////sorta

weiserfireman:
All I know is that when the Utah Media reported on the breakdown in talks with the Big XII, BYU officials were quoted as saying there were insurmountable cultural differences. People in this region took that to mean that Sunday play was an issue. It is one absolute that BYU won't budge on.

I did not say BYU would have to budge on anything. I said they offer enough to the Big XII in terms of media presence and revenue for the Big XII to make the minor adjustment for a "Saturday only" school.

Lou Brown: It's a little more complicated as far as BYU goes in a conference. From looking at past schedules, the Jazz will still play away games on Sundays during the regular season and home playoff games on Sundays. BYU refuses to let any of its teams play on Sundays at any point.

The point of that example was that the NBA easily accomdates the Jazz for 41 regular season games. BYU football and basketball combined do not equal half that. Again see my response above about BYU not needing to budge on anything.

That means all of the conference championship tournaments that typically have games on Sundays would have to be adjusted to accommodate BYU, and regular season schedules would have to be moved around as well. As you said it's certainly not an insurmountable problem, but it'd definitely be a pain in the ass to deal with.

The Mountain West, WAC and West Coast Conference had/have no problem doing this with far fewer resources than the Big XII has. I assure you Baylor and Texas Christian will have no problem with the idea themselves.

Again I believe everyone is overstating the issue. If the money is right (and it is) the Big XII will make the move. Sure there will be some haggling but none of this is a deal breaker in any sense.

weiserfireman: Oh and Texas and Oklahoma don't want a Championship game anymore. Both schools feel like the Championship hurt them in the BCS computers too much

More accurately, Texas and Oklahoma don't want a Championship game if it will not have siginifant impact on the future TV contract (Hint: it will). It is an unfounded rumor that these schools believe the title game has hurt their championship aspirations. In fact, Oklahoma lost the Big XII title game in 2000 and still went to the BCS Championship. Both schools have winning records in the game at a combined 10-3.

the1hatman: I believe this change is very much for the better. It's better for WV and better for the Big XII so how is this bad? Who is WV's big rival in the Big East anyway? What are they really leaving behind now that Pitt is gone? What game do you think has a bigger draw, WV-Syracuse or WV-Texas? This is a win-win for the 2 parties involved.

Yeah, I totally agree it's better for WVU than the alternative. I don't think it's better (as far as alignment of teams is concerned) than the 90s Big East, or what a conference made up of the traditional eastern independents would have been.

Pitt is traditionally WVU's main rival. Other smaller rivalries over the years were Virginia Tech, Maryland, and Penn State (though that was more-so one to WVU than PSU given the competitive disparity). In the Big12, WVU's rivals will be... well, nobody. I don't think you can artificially manufacture rivalries.

My point is that a hypothetical conference with WVU and other eastern teams such as Pitt, Penn State, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Rutgers, Maryland, etc. would have been much better. WVU has played each of those teams individually twice as often as all the Big12 teams combined, and they were all on the schedule during the 1980s. That was eastern football, and I think it's sad that it's gone.

Shouldn't this thread be about LSU and "The Game Which None Shall Ever Approach," or whatever it is called now?

weiserfireman: Good question. Many people say BSU is a linchpin in all this

I think UCF says yes. Its a nice fit for them with USF in the same conference. The western schools, don't know. I don't think AFA goes without BSU.

BSU doesn't have a home for their Olympic Sports yet if it isn't an all-sports offer. If it is an all-sports offer, travel for those sports will be a b***h. Big West or Big Sky conferences look like the best bet.

My understanding is that where Olympic sports are concerned, if your conference doesn't support your sport or if travel is too much of a hardship, you can get an alumni member of a school that DOES play in a conference that supports your sport to sponsor you. For example, Kentucky has soccer, but the SEC doesn't support it, so it was a (I THINK) Marshall pledge on their behalf that gets them into C-USA for soccer.

the1hatman: That means all of the conference championship tournaments that typically have games on Sundays would have to be adjusted to accommodate BYU, and regular season schedules would have to be moved around as well. As you said it's certainly not an insurmountable problem, but it'd definitely be a pain in the ass to deal with.

The Mountain West, WAC and West Coast Conference had/have no problem doing this with far fewer resources than the Big XII has. I assure you Baylor and Texas Christian will have no problem with the idea themselves.

BYU was a founding member of the MWC. No Sunday play was something everyone knew going in. WAC, they were there so long it might as well have been in their by-laws too.

WCC - small, private, religious schools - They are used to principled positions. I looked at their tournament schedules for 2010 and 2009. They had no championship tournaments in any sport scheduled on Sunday. On the basketball tournaments, Sunday was grayed out with "Religious Observances". So my guess is that no Sunday Play predates the inclusion of BYU in this conference

weiserfireman: the1hatman: That means all of the conference championship tournaments that typically have games on Sundays would have to be adjusted to accommodate BYU, and regular season schedules would have to be moved around as well. As you said it's certainly not an insurmountable problem, but it'd definitely be a pain in the ass to deal with.

The Mountain West, WAC and West Coast Conference had/have no problem doing this with far fewer resources than the Big XII has. I assure you Baylor and Texas Christian will have no problem with the idea themselves.

BYU was a founding member of the MWC. No Sunday play was something everyone knew going in. WAC, they were there so long it might as well have been in their by-laws too.

WCC - small, private, religious schools - They are used to principled positions. I looked at their tournament schedules for 2010 and 2009. They had no championship tournaments in any sport scheduled on Sunday. On the basketball tournaments, Sunday was grayed out with "Religious Observances". So my guess is that no Sunday Play predates the inclusion of BYU in this conference

There've been rumblings of bringing in Lousiville to the B12 to get them to 11 members, then inviting BYU as a football-only (to protect their precious no-sunday rule) and letting Notre Dame jump the B.E. ship, as well, as a non-football.

Lou Brown: Yeah, I totally agree it's better for WVU than the alternative. I don't think it's better (as far as alignment of teams is concerned) than the 90s Big East, or what a conference made up of the traditional eastern independents would have been.

No it is not better than that but such an alignment never really existed. Between the ACC and BE football conferences along with PSU being independent or in the B1G at the time, they never really got that group together. The BE should NEVER have rejected PSU when they asked to join. Imagine how things would look now had they had more sense?

In the Big12, WVU's rivals will be... well, nobody. I don't think you can artificially manufacture rivalries.

Nor do I. They have to be built up over years of play but that has to start someplace. I don't think it will take too long for WV to get something going with Texas or Oklahoma or even some future bitter rivalry with one of the other schools that we will not even see coming.

My point is that a hypothetical conference with WVU and other eastern teams such as Pitt, Penn State, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Rutgers, Maryland, etc. would have been much better. WVU has played each of those teams individually twice as often as all the Big12 teams combined, and they were all on the schedule during the 1980s. That was eastern football, and I think it's sad that it's gone.

I agree but that scheduling was pretty much over by the mid 90's with the BE and ACC forming/changing as they did. Yes hypothetically it would be cool but it never really happened for longer than a decade or so, so it's not like we just lost something that had always been.

I guess my point is that the current round of shifting with the Big XII and Big East is nothing new and in actuality we are not seeing long time rivalries fade as much as we think we are. I too would LOVE to realign college football into region-specific leagues (and hold a playoff for that matter) but that is just never going to happen and in some ways maybe it shouldn't. Leagues that have a strong footprint that appeal to a wider scope of fans are probably better than sectional conferences where no one has to care what happens on the other side of the country. It just seems wrong in our heads I guess.

weiserfireman: BYU was a founding member of the MWC. No Sunday play was something everyone knew going in. WAC, they were there so long it might as well have been in their by-laws too.

WCC - small, private, religious schools - They are used to principled positions. I looked at their tournament schedules for 2010 and 2009. They had no championship tournaments in any sport scheduled on Sunday. On the basketball tournaments, Sunday was grayed out with "Religious Observances". So my guess is that no Sunday Play predates the inclusion of BYU in this conference

Understood but the point was that lesser conferences manage to pull this off with no issue not weather or not they bent just for BYU or already had that standard. Should BYU be included in the Big XII as football or FB and basketball only all of this goes away but one way or another I believe it is going to happen. Don't let a few concerns early in the process sway you away from what will eventually make it all happen... the money (as always).