Getting rid of the Pro line would be monumental. A final declaration that Apple didn't care at all about the professional and pro-am creative user.

Meh, it's about time. I work at an apple specialist in NH, and we haven't sold a Pro in about a year. All the video people in the area have converted to iMacs.

Right now, I can choose between the Mini with a mobile processor (still waiting for the four-core 18 months after the desktop i7 came out, still limited to 8GB), an iMac which makes me buy a built-in display (I expect a display to be useful on 2 to 3 new computers over its lifetime), or a MacPro which is server-class and priced like one.

I don't care if they get rid of the Pro. Whar is minitower desktop? How about a desktop processor in a MacPro case?

Nerd talk! *swoon*

John Paul Jones: palladiate: If they let me run OSX Server on my own hardware, they would have a customer for life.

You can as a VM which has a host of other benefits.

Legally you can only do this if the host is Apple hardware running OS X.

Knara: Getting rid of the Pro line would be monumental. A final declaration that Apple didn't care at all about the professional and pro-am creative user.

Is that really a large part of where their profit comes from though? Why should they care?

cman: Why is it that when I get a green light the subject is most of the time about Apple?

/Subby

troll like headlines? Ability to recognise potential flame-war?

I got nothing.

dready zim: Knara: Getting rid of the Pro line would be monumental. A final declaration that Apple didn't care at all about the professional and pro-am creative user.

Is that really a large part of where their profit comes from though? Why should they care?

cman: Why is it that when I get a green light the subject is most of the time about Apple?
.

Apple doesn't care all the fanbois do care. I have an art teacher that keeps trying to push he needs an apple computer for his art class since Apple computers are so much better than a PC for doing "artsy" stuff. Photoshop works just fine on a PC.

palladiate: If they let me run OSX Server on my own hardware, they would have a customer for life.

If it was your own hardware, could you really be called a "customer"?
(Before you answer, compare AAPL revenue from hardware to revenue from software)

I hope they do discontinue the Pro. Then I'll finally be able to afford an Intel model cuz they'll be dirt cheap compared to now. I regularly rub one out just looking at a fully pimped out Mac Pro.

The Mac Pro is toast. It rarely gets updated and nobody buys them.

dready zim: Knara: Getting rid of the Pro line would be monumental. A final declaration that Apple didn't care at all about the professional and pro-am creative user.

Is that really a large part of where their profit comes from though? Why should they care?

An interesting question. I've never understood the "is that where a large part of their profit comes from" question with corporations. Profit is not revenue. Why you would want to do away with *any* part of your business that is profit generating is beyond me.

Sure, there is no doubt that their Pro line is not the largest proportion of their user base, but it's also arguably their most loyal user base segment. Casting that away would be amazing.

Pfft. Desktop graphics cards? Xeon processors? DVD drives?! Who needs any of that junk! I mean jeesh, every person on the planet should be happy to have a Macbook Air, it's got 2x the graphics power of your average netbook!! That's a lot.

jvl: Right now, I can choose between the Mini with a mobile processor (still waiting for the four-core 18 months after the desktop i7 came out, still limited to 8GB), an iMac which makes me buy a built-in display (I expect a display to be useful on 2 to 3 new computers over its lifetime), or a MacPro which is server-class and priced like one.

I don't care if they get rid of the Pro. Whar is minitower desktop? How about a desktop processor in a MacPro case?

build your own?

FuturePastNow: The Mac Pro is toast. It rarely gets updated and nobody buys them.

While most people sniker when they think of Dell and their quality, it's obvious haven't used any of their Precision line of laptops or desktops. They run circles around the Mac Pro when it comes to performance. Link (new window)

/gently pats my T7500 Precision dekstop (new window)
//doesn't have the optional 192GB of RAM

Makes sense. The desktops of the future won't be made by the likes of HP, Apple, etc. They'll be highly customized content creation and management machines made by smaller OEMs. It's not really Apple's gig.

palladiate: If they let me run OSX Server on my own hardware, they would have a customer for life.

10.7 Server is a pile of crap compared to the awesome that was 10.3 to 10.6 Server.

/Been a X Server user since it was NeXTStep 3.1

I wouldn't hold any company responsible to continue making a non-profitable product for a dwindling number of sycophants.

akula: If one product line generates much less profit for a given investment than another, it makes sense to focus on the more profitable ventures because the same amount of investment will give a larger return.

If we were talking about equities, sure.

But there's only so much you can invest in an area of your company before you not only reach the point of diminishing returns, but you put all your eggs in one basket.

Furthermore, in this case, you're risking customer loyalty and goodwill that can benefit you in the long term.

Given that they've already said a big "FU" to their Enterprise customers, this sort of move isn't totally out of the blue, but nonetheless, they're not getting profits of a few dollars from Pro customers. They're getting hundreds and hundreds of millions over the course of years from these Pro costumers.

Very short-sided, even in the face of their increasingly consumer-electronics focus. They can do both. To not do both is foolish in the long run. There's no consumer electronics company that remains the hot ticket forever and when Apple inevitably becomes less trendy to the average consumer, doing stuff like this means they'll have to try and rebuild that product line diversification again.

Subby wins by conflating Mac Pro -- which simply don't sell well to anyone whose needs are below high-end video editing -- with the other Macs.

Apple wins by ditching a product line that doesn't earn its keep.

The only people who lose are the users who actually need that much horsepower.

Knara: Very short-sighted

FTFM

Cassius Belle: Apple wins by ditching a product line that doesn't earn its keep.

The line is profitable. It is earning its keep, by definition.

ZAZ: delays in Intel's new chips

Switch to AMD. Or return to RISC. Bolt a vector unit onto an ARM core.

Doing either would be a significant step backwards in performance/power, not to mention a ton of work. The ARM has a VFP in the ARM11 line of CPUs.

clovis69: 10.7 Server is a pile of crap compared to the awesome that was 10.3 to 10.6 Server.

Even reliably vocal Mac fans have been quiet about the demise of OS X Server; I think they were too busy frothing over the latest iPhone rumor.

palladiate: Ouch, really? It's sad to see them abandoning that entire segment.

They gutted the stock configuration when the price of the Server fell.

That said, 10.7 on a Mac Mini Server is a fast little beast, but the number of built in services is very streamlined.

Cassius Belle: Even reliably vocal Mac fans have been quiet about the demise of OS X Server; I think they were too busy frothing over the latest iPhone rumor.

I'll shout from the tops of the buildings how much it sucks. Had to go to 10.7 Server because work forgot to order the box at the end of the FY in June, so when I came back to work all that was out was 10.7 and my boss wouldn't let me drop $500 on a copy of 10.6 Server.

So then I "got" to upgrade to Filemaker Pro 11 (I farking hate Filemaker Pro, but I inherited the database), but I'm planning to migrate it all to postgresql or mysql by next FY. Or shoot myself. Not sure which will happen first.

When I called Filemaker with a migration issue and said "10.7 Server" the guy on the phone sighed and said "...awww shiat, I'm sorry".

jvl: a MacPro which is server-class and priced like one.

I don't think the MacPro is server class in any category other than price. It is a toy or a consumer product at best, despite its enterprise class price-tag it lacks most of the aspects people expect of real professional grade server hardware. The old x-serve was only barely a server and none of the products left are an adequate replacement.

Perhaps it was a stroke of genius to get rid of the unprofitable server fist and the workstation now, but I can't help but feel that such decisions slowly eat away at the brand as people benign to realize that Apple is only good for private users and useless for businesses. Even if they are not making anything on it they should have kept it to have a food in the door with businesses. Overspecialization on the thing that makes the most money can easily backfire when the market turns and make you look like a dinosaur who has just seem a meteorite.

SMB2811: John Paul Jones: palladiate: If they let me run OSX Server on my own hardware, they would have a customer for life.

You can as a VM which has a host of other benefits.

Legally you can only do this if the host is Apple hardware running OS X.

these days "apple hardware" is just the white case, considering they keep giving up parts of its hardware line to other companies (CPU, GPU, etc)

clovis69: Cassius Belle: Even reliably vocal Mac fans have been quiet about the demise of OS X Server; I think they were too busy frothing over the latest iPhone rumor.

I'll shout from the tops of the buildings how much it sucks. Had to go to 10.7 Server because work forgot to order the box at the end of the FY in June, so when I came back to work all that was out was 10.7 and my boss wouldn't let me drop $500 on a copy of 10.6 Server.


Apple doesn't let you downgrade for free? Heck atleast MS is nice enough to allow you to buy a newer server version then install the old one.

TNel: Apple doesn't let you downgrade for free? Heck atleast MS is nice enough to allow you to buy a newer server version then install the old one.

Nope. If I had time to complain to Apple about it, they'd toss me a licence, but I'd be on the hook for media. It's one place where Apple really sucks.

They really don't care what you do with your licenses though, I had someone from Apple tell me and a room of IT people "...install that Server license wherever you want and how many times you need to get the job done. We aren't Adobe or AutoDesk, we aren't jerks."

Knara: Furthermore, in this case, you're risking customer loyalty and goodwill that can benefit you in the long term.

Or they're banking on those current loyal customers moving to a new line of Apple machines.

It makes no sense holding onto a declining product line for the sake of a few customers and they've likely hit a threshold that essentially says it's not worth the effort.

Meanwhile the rest of the business is making money hand over fist... 75% of all music downloads? Bingo. Hardware that is out-of-the-box tied to iTunes to facilitate that? Bonus. Services is where it's at, and it's about driving people to use them.

They make no money from people using Photoshop or Maya, but they do from anyone who buys anything from the App Store - to the tune of 30% of every transaction. Mac Pros do nothing to drive folk to their current cash cow.

I hope they don't eliminate their desktop line. I'm probably going to replace my Mac Plus in the next two-to-three years.

Kuroshin:
Evil is as Evil does, and total product lock-in is pretty damn evil. This is 1990's-era-Microsoft behavior. Google is the only thing preventing a monopoly in the small electronic device market. I doubt the DoJ of today would do anything at all about it either.

I don't entirely disagree that it's evil and vendor lockin, but I have to disagree that is 1990's Microsoft levels of evil. You are only really locked in to the Apple way if you go and buy the Apple device; buying any other OEMs device and your free & clear of it.

McRumors - I'm lovin' it!

Knara: Knara: Very short-sighted

FTFM

Cassius Belle: Apple wins by ditching a product line that doesn't earn its keep.

The line is profitable. It is earning its keep, by definition.

Well, according to this here chart, it's not going to remain profitable for long.



The market is changing. Big heavy desktops are no longer necessary or even desirable. If I were an Apple executive, I'd look at that chart and seriously consider axing the Pro, too.

Apple sells computers. The demand is for the laptops and light weight devices. They're doing exactly what a smart company should do.