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(BBC)   Greek president: "Let the people decide." European markets: "F*ck that"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 270
    More: Scary, European Economic Area, Credit Agricole, Greek, lump sums, BNP Paribas, currency markets, debt crisis, Societe Generale  
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12545 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Nov 2011 at 9:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-11-01 06:03:03 AM  
How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!
 
2011-11-01 06:06:22 AM  

Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!


You mean the people who culturally avoided paying their income taxes yet expected benefits and services for free?
 
2011-11-01 06:22:31 AM  

lohphat: Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!

You mean the people who culturally avoided paying their income taxes yet expected benefits and services for free?


Yes, because while those problems need to be delt with those issues aren't at the heart of the current crisis. The Greek banks acting like the world financial markets were a big casino is. That's what caused the current crisis and now they expect the people to pay for their losses through austerity while recapatalizing their banks by unloading the debts onto the public.
 
2011-11-01 06:33:21 AM  

Fail in Human Form: lohphat: Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!

You mean the people who culturally avoided paying their income taxes yet expected benefits and services for free?

Yes, because while those problems need to be delt with those issues aren't at the heart of the current crisis. The Greek banks acting like the world financial markets were a big casino is. That's what caused the current crisis and now they expect the people to pay for their losses through austerity while recapatalizing their banks by unloading the debts onto the public.


That's what partially caused it.

The public was shirking their end of the societal duty of paying taxes in return for services. It's not either/or. They had no tax base for services and the government was sandbagging the economy with bloated departments.

Greece should have never been admitted into the Euro.
 
2011-11-01 06:43:36 AM  

lohphat: Greece should have never been admitted into the Euro.


I agree and you can thank Goldman Sachs for helping them gain entry.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-11-01 06:50:49 AM  
Delay is good. They're doomed either way. Might as well let them go under without another aid package going to waste.
 
2011-11-01 09:18:58 AM  

Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!


You mean the Germans?
 
2011-11-01 09:29:32 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!

You mean the Germans?


I agree, the German people are getting a raw deal. Having a common currency without a single monetary policy is daft.
 
2011-11-01 09:33:48 AM  
Oh boy. 3.00/gal gass again. Maybe less. How cool!
 
2011-11-01 09:35:14 AM  
Nuh-uh.
They had their chance. And they chose to be as corrupt as always.
 
2011-11-01 09:36:42 AM  
The EMU is a joke. Unless the European nations all agree to surrender sovereignty to a central, federal government, the EMU is bound to collapse sooner or later. Frankly I'm surprised the germans and French and Belgians et al are not all demanding referenda over this quasi-legal bail-out deal. If a united Europe is so important to the Europeans, they should turn their ancient countries into states in a federation and get it over with.

Not gonna happen - ergo, the Euro is toast...or democracy in Europe is toast.
 
2011-11-01 09:36:55 AM  

Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!


Yeah, but really, it's as churlish as complaining about the quality of your whore after you've dropped your load.

The money's gone, Greece. You spent it. Request lube.

/the Elgin Marbles aren't coming back soon.
//they have a word for it.
 
2011-11-01 09:38:54 AM  
Democracy sucks.
 
2011-11-01 09:39:18 AM  
SELL, MORTIMER. SELL!
 
2011-11-01 09:39:40 AM  
My opinion? Kick Greece out of the EU and demand all prior bailout funds back. This way Greece may collapse but it doesn't take the world with them.
 
2011-11-01 09:40:28 AM  
Schadenfreude is great!
 
2011-11-01 09:40:45 AM  

lohphat: Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!

You mean the people who culturally avoided paying their income taxes yet expected benefits and services for free?


You mean like Republicans? Seems to be their party platform recent years.
 
2011-11-01 09:41:53 AM  
And Germany shrugged.
 
2011-11-01 09:42:24 AM  

deadcrickets: My opinion? Kick Greece out of the EU and demand all prior bailout funds back. This way Greece may collapse but it doesn't take the world with them.


How are they going to get that money back? Put the Parthenon on the back of a flatbed and haul it to Berlin?
 
2011-11-01 09:42:29 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!

You mean the Germans?


Well, they were dumb enough to lend to Greeks.
 
2011-11-01 09:42:51 AM  

canyoneer: The EMU is a joke. Unless the European nations all agree to surrender sovereignty to a central, federal government, the EMU is bound to collapse sooner or later. Frankly I'm surprised the germans and French and Belgians et al are not all demanding referenda over this quasi-legal bail-out deal. If a united Europe is so important to the Europeans, they should turn their ancient countries into states in a federation and get it over with.

Not gonna happen - ergo, the Euro is toast...or democracy in Europe is toast.


Twas never a democracy, twas always a plutocracy. Always. Before that it was a dictatorship, before that it was an empire.
 
2011-11-01 09:43:17 AM  

canyoneer: The EMU is a joke. Unless the European nations all agree to surrender sovereignty to a central, federal government, the EMU is bound to collapse sooner or later. Frankly I'm surprised the germans and French and Belgians et al are not all demanding referenda over this quasi-legal bail-out deal. If a united Europe is so important to the Europeans, they should turn their ancient countries into states in a federation and get it over with.

Not gonna happen - ergo, the Euro is toast...or democracy in Europe is toast.


Thankfully there are serious talks now to further solidarity in the EU. One of the tenets being pushed is to remove financial control from the individual countries and give it to the EU as a whole.
 
2011-11-01 09:43:56 AM  

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: How are they going to get that money back? Put the Parthenon on the back of a flatbed and haul it to Berlin?


Basically you make re-entry conditional on repayment. While Greece may never be able to recover, at least you prevent further bleeding and (hopefully) send a message to the other member states to get their shiat together.

Sometimes amputation is the best logical alternative.
 
2011-11-01 09:44:30 AM  

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: deadcrickets: My opinion? Kick Greece out of the EU and demand all prior bailout funds back. This way Greece may collapse but it doesn't take the world with them.

How are they going to get that money back? Put the Parthenon on the back of a flatbed and haul it to Berlin?


Doesn't matter how. What matters is the money is returned. Sell the Greek interests, enslave the people, feed them to Morbo. Doesn't matter.
 
2011-11-01 09:45:15 AM  

canyoneer: The EMU is a joke. Unless the European nations all agree to surrender sovereignty to a central, federal government, the EMU is bound to collapse sooner or later. Frankly I'm surprised the germans and French and Belgians et al are not all demanding referenda over this quasi-legal bail-out deal. If a united Europe is so important to the Europeans, they should turn their ancient countries into states in a federation and get it over with.

Not gonna happen - ergo, the Euro is toast...or democracy in Europe is toast.


Hey now. I think a United States of Europe would actually be really neat. That and geography class would get a whole lot easier.
 
2011-11-01 09:46:51 AM  

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: deadcrickets: My opinion? Kick Greece out of the EU and demand all prior bailout funds back. This way Greece may collapse but it doesn't take the world with them.

How are they going to get that money back? Put the Parthenon on the back of a flatbed and haul it to Berlin?


Best episode of Repo Games yet.
 
2011-11-01 09:46:56 AM  
Release the Kraken!
 
2011-11-01 09:48:02 AM  
Here's the thing that confuses me... And I don't claim to be any kind of expert in economics or finances, so maybe someone with a better knowledge base than myself can help me.

Why is it that the folks most responsible for the financial crisis, namely, banks, financial corporations, and policy makers in government seem to be getting a pass on their actions, while the cost and pain for all these "fixes" is placed squarely on the shoulders of the folks least likely to be able to deal with these harsh austerity measures - The Greek people?

I understand the banks are going to take a "haircut", but to me, it seems like the folks that are going to suffer the most pain aren't the ones who are responsible for the crisis... That strikes me as wrong.

Maybe I'm not understanding something here...
 
2011-11-01 09:48:19 AM  

canyoneer: The EMU is a joke. Unless the European nations all agree to surrender sovereignty to a central, federal government, the EMU is bound to collapse sooner or later. Frankly I'm surprised the germans and French and Belgians et al are not all demanding referenda over this quasi-legal bail-out deal. If a united Europe is so important to the Europeans, they should turn their ancient countries into states in a federation and get it over with.

Not gonna happen - ergo, the Euro is toast...or democracy in Europe is toast.


Actually, the French are next, along with Spain.
 
2011-11-01 09:48:43 AM  
Greeked in the European Boobies.
 
2011-11-01 09:48:50 AM  

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: deadcrickets: My opinion? Kick Greece out of the EU and demand all prior bailout funds back. This way Greece may collapse but it doesn't take the world with them.

How are they going to get that money back? Put the Parthenon on the back of a flatbed and haul it to Berlin?


See, if we had currencies back by say, gold and silver, instead of debt, this wouldnt be an issue.
 
2011-11-01 09:49:18 AM  

QifutuWahuta: canyoneer: The EMU is a joke. Unless the European nations all agree to surrender sovereignty to a central, federal government, the EMU is bound to collapse sooner or later. Frankly I'm surprised the germans and French and Belgians et al are not all demanding referenda over this quasi-legal bail-out deal. If a united Europe is so important to the Europeans, they should turn their ancient countries into states in a federation and get it over with.

Not gonna happen - ergo, the Euro is toast...or democracy in Europe is toast.

Hey now. I think a United States of Europe would actually be really neat. That and geography class would get a whole lot easier.


Problem is, the individual countries involved differ enough in their outlook on critical issues it may not be possible. We conquered the majority of this country and then drew up the state borders. Could you imagine if all the current states were individual countries and we had to vote to become a union today? Good farking luck.
 
2011-11-01 09:49:44 AM  

Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!


Not sure if troll.

The country of Greece and it's people literally do almost nothing. I feel bad for the people in Germany that have to bail these turds out.

Let them go under and we'll all be able to buy vacation property in Greece for about a grand.
 
2011-11-01 09:49:44 AM  
I think the one thing we can all agree on is that this will end well.
 
2011-11-01 09:50:23 AM  
The Greeks are not screwed because they don't pay taxes. The Greeks are screwed because their leaders and Goldman Sachs bent them over in cheating to qualify for the Euro. All those currency swaps had to unwind sometime.
 
2011-11-01 09:51:27 AM  

keylock71: Here's the thing that confuses me... And I don't claim to be any kind of expert in economics or finances, so maybe someone with a better knowledge base than myself can help me.

Why is it that the folks most responsible for the financial crisis, namely, banks, financial corporations, and policy makers in government seem to be getting a pass on their actions, while the cost and pain for all these "fixes" is placed squarely on the shoulders of the folks least likely to be able to deal with these harsh austerity measures - The Greek people?

I understand the banks are going to take a "haircut", but to me, it seems like the folks that are going to suffer the most pain aren't the ones who are responsible for the crisis... That strikes me as wrong.

Maybe I'm not understanding something here...


Money talks.
 
2011-11-01 09:52:34 AM  
The people being screwed are everyone except Greeks...

Cut em loose. Take back the bail outs.
 
2011-11-01 09:52:45 AM  

deadcrickets: Thankfully there are serious talks now to further solidarity in the EU. One of the tenets being pushed is to remove financial control from the individual countries and give it to the EU as a whole.


Well, what's the point of that without full federation? If a nation doesn't have sovereignty over its finances, it doesn't have sovereignty at all. No: This has to be whole-hog or nothing...something I've been telling my European friends for years. They seemed not to get it. But now this phoney-baloney monetary union has had its first real test, and it looks like it's going to collapse or fragment. Those Europeans are starting to grasp the implications now.

I'm skeptical that Europe is going to collectively decide to federate. If they were inclined to do so, it would have happened years ago. Easy pickings for the U.S. and China. Now we know what Rumsfeld meant by "chocolate makers."
 
2011-11-01 09:53:53 AM  

lohphat: Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!

You mean the people who culturally avoided paying their income taxes yet expected benefits and services for free?


i know, right? it's like they think they're Americans.
 
2011-11-01 09:54:22 AM  
F*cking lazy Greek basterds, let's go in and take their money and women!
 
2011-11-01 09:55:37 AM  
so are the Germans going to try to repossess Greece?
 
2011-11-01 09:55:39 AM  

keylock71: Here's the thing that confuses me... And I don't claim to be any kind of expert in economics or finances, so maybe someone with a better knowledge base than myself can help me.

Why is it that the folks most responsible for the financial crisis, namely, banks, financial corporations, and policy makers in government seem to be getting a pass on their actions, while the cost and pain for all these "fixes" is placed squarely on the shoulders of the folks least likely to be able to deal with these harsh austerity measures - The Greek people?

I understand the banks are going to take a "haircut", but to me, it seems like the folks that are going to suffer the most pain aren't the ones who are responsible for the crisis... That strikes me as wrong.

Maybe I'm not understanding something here...


Because they bought the politicians and therefore the laws. It's just that they're less brazen about it here than in the US.
 
2011-11-01 09:55:49 AM  

canyoneer: The EMU is a joke. Unless the European nations all agree to surrender sovereignty to a central, federal government, the EMU is bound to collapse sooner or later. Frankly I'm surprised the germans and French and Belgians et al are not all demanding referenda over this quasi-legal bail-out deal. If a united Europe is so important to the Europeans, they should turn their ancient countries into states in a federation and get it over with.


This idea sounds familiar. It kinda sounds like a federalized union of several formerly independent countries, or "states" on a single continent. Where each state surrenders part of its autonomy and sovereign rights to the whole, in order to benefit from the stability, protection and combined resources that their neighbors can offer.

Since Europe, according to the GOP, is the great bastion of socialism, it stands to reason this would be more like the USSR than the USA. So it's good we can look forward to having another evil empire to conduct an arms race against.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-11-01 09:56:25 AM  
keylock71

The Greek people got the benefit of massive government overspending subsidized by foreigners who believed that Euro-denominated bonds were safe bonds.
 
2011-11-01 09:57:05 AM  
I'm still waiting on letting the people decide on the gay marriage issue in the state of New York in the next election instead of the state legislation.

Greece is deciding their sovereignty a week after the bailout was agreed upon.
 
2011-11-01 09:57:07 AM  
TheMadChaosopher 2011-11-01 09:53:53 AM

lohphat: Fail in Human Form: How dare the people that are getting screwed over expect to have a say in how this plays out!

You mean the people who culturally avoided paying their income taxes yet expected benefits and services for free?

i know, right? it's like they think they're Americans.


Yep, we are heading in the same direction.
 
2011-11-01 09:57:58 AM  
Interesting that the cradle of western democracy should be the ground on which the "free market" should stifle public opinion reagrding everyone's future completely.

/Not that a referendum would go any different in the U.S..
 
2011-11-01 09:58:07 AM  
The euro economy has been too stable for too long. People just think the party (credit card) can last forever.
There needs to be a reality check, default and depression followed by a slow recovery.
 
2011-11-01 09:58:52 AM  
 
2011-11-01 10:01:14 AM  
The market's reactions are completely over the top; all it would take for Greece is to start taxing seriously and sell off a few assets (like the rights to exploit infrastructure and ports and such). Greece takes up about 2% of the GDP of the Euro, that's not much. When California was about to default, nobody screamed in panic about the 'US crisis'.
 
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