Arm yourself, but not against the criminals. You're much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than you were in 1994, no matter what they tell you. Crime rates plummeted starting in '94, with unproven reasons. The most known conclusion is that it was 20 years after Roe.

Arm yourself against the police. If we're going to have all these guns, might as well stop some fascism with it.

I'd like to help, but frankly I can't afford the ammo. The retards who drove the prices up after Obama got elected have put it out of my range.

Guns are awesome.

People who insist that the guns should be owned by everyone and carried everywhere "just in case" are scary as shiat.

Own a gun if you want but please don't be surprised if someone doesn't really think that they are as awesome as you think they are.

dustman81: The Sheriff is right. Anyone who can get a CCW permit, should. Studies have shown that in states that have concealed carry, the crime rate has gone down. It's leveling the playing field. The criminals are going to arm themselves regardless of what the law says. With CCW laws, a law-abiding citizen can arm themselves, too.

Before someone comes in and says "It's going to be the Wild West and vigilantism", those who hold CCW permits are the most law-abiding citizens you can find. To get a concealed handgun license in Ohio (and most other states), you have to pass a background check, be fingerprinted and take a gun safety course with live fire exercises. You cannot have any felony convictions or any violent misdemeanors.

Remember, you can be a survivor or a statistic. The choice is yours.

A statistic of what?

If you're white -- guess what your murder rate has been GOING DOWN THE LAST 50 YEARS.

Our burglary rate is lower than Canada's.

Hell total violent crime is lower than it was in the 80's.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Before it's too late and things get out of hand like they always do, I'll say that this guy is rather indicative of a problem we have. Two, in fact.

The first is that policing a locale has become entirely reactive and the police spend most of their time in their cars. As a result, we don't trust the police because we only see them when they're pulling us over for petty reasons or a crime has already been committed. Get them out of the car and back to walking beats. While labor-intensive it will help to engender a better relationship with the public and the randomness of it will deter a lot more crime than sitting at the station and waiting for a call would.

Second, when a police officer advocates something like this in this manner it demonstrates that he should not hold the job any longer. There is a difference between self-defense and vigilantism, and if he didn't cross that line (I think he did) he definitely got as close to it as one can.

As for the usual comments about seeing monsters in shadows, paranoia and phallic obsession, I will say this: a handgun does not discharge by itself. Therefore, on the hip of a licensed operator, properly vetted and permitted, documented to be less likely to commit a violent crime of any type than the general public, it is nothing more than a 1-2 pound piece of insurance. It hurts nobody for a CCW holder to possess it, and it hurts nobody unless the CCW holder or a bystander in relative proximity is assaulted. If that hurts your feelings and increases your paranoia, that is hardly the carrier's fault. That is your own issue.

He has to get re-elected in one of the most backward, redneck states in the country ... sounds like a politically savvy speech to me. He even made it quite folksy and ungrammatical to match the intellect of his electorate.

The problem with all the "more guns make the world a safer place" arguments is (a) they aren't true, and (b) while there are responsible gun owners, handgun ownership attracts a certain type of idiot (new window) who ideally shouldn't even be allowed to have something as dangerous as a pickup truck.

GAT_00: Arm yourself, but not against the criminals. You're much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than you were in 1994, no matter what they tell you. Crime rates plummeted starting in '94, with unproven reasons. The most known conclusion is that it was 20 years after Roe.

Arm yourself against the police. If we're going to have all these guns, might as well stop some fascism with it.

Weren't you just arguing in the marijuana thread that we should all be obeying the law, even when we don't like it, and work to change the system through the legislature or suffer what we have coming? Now you're in this thread saying we need to arm ourselves against the police.

/Hello pot, it's Mr. Kettle

ParaHandy: The problem with all the "more guns make the world a safer place" arguments is (a) they aren't true, and (b) while there are responsible gun owners, handgun ownership attracts a certain type of idiot (new window) who ideally shouldn't even be allowed to have something as dangerous as a pickup truck.

Nice graph. Now, can we get one that shows all murders, including those with knives? Oops, the US is suddenly out of the top spot. Make it violent crime in general, and we're out of the top 5, if not the top 10. And that's without counting Africa or the Mideast.

Fail in Human Form: GAT_00: Arm yourself, but not against the criminals. You're much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than you were in 1994, no matter what they tell you. Crime rates plummeted starting in '94, with unproven reasons. The most known conclusion is that it was 20 years after Roe.

Arm yourself against the police. If we're going to have all these guns, might as well stop some fascism with it.

Weren't you just arguing in the marijuana thread that we should all be obeying the law, even when we don't like it, and work to change the system through the legislature or suffer what we have coming? Now you're in this thread saying we need to arm ourselves against the police.

/Hello pot, it's Mr. Kettle

*psst* Its GAT_00, he's basically beavits.

Fail in Human Form: GAT_00: Arm yourself, but not against the criminals. You're much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than you were in 1994, no matter what they tell you. Crime rates plummeted starting in '94, with unproven reasons. The most known conclusion is that it was 20 years after Roe.

Arm yourself against the police. If we're going to have all these guns, might as well stop some fascism with it.

Weren't you just arguing in the marijuana thread that we should all be obeying the law, even when we don't like it, and work to change the system through the legislature or suffer what we have coming? Now you're in this thread saying we need to arm ourselves against the police.

/Hello pot, it's Mr. Kettle

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. I see no conflict.

ParaHandy: The problem with all the "more guns make the world a safer place" arguments is (a) they aren't true, and (b) while there are responsible gun owners, handgun ownership attracts a certain type of idiot (new window) who ideally shouldn't even be allowed to have something as dangerous as a pickup truck.

How many of those violent crimes were committed by licensed gun owners?

Just bring back the castle doctrine and never question it. Can't kill 'em if they're on your porch, can kill 'em if they're in your living room. If the shootee survives, don't let him sue. "Were you in this person's home uninvited? You were? I should let him try again".

Its clean, its simple. And I think, a damn elegant solution.

/doesn't just apply to guns. Also applicable to knives, bats, wet kittens, a bag of squirrels, and angry PMSing wives or any combination there of.

gadian: if the shootee survives, don't let him sue you're doing it wrong.

FTFM.

/keep firing until it clicks
//remember the phrase "I was in fear for my life"

seancakes: Fail in Human Form: GAT_00: Arm yourself, but not against the criminals. You're much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than you were in 1994, no matter what they tell you. Crime rates plummeted starting in '94, with unproven reasons. The most known conclusion is that it was 20 years after Roe.

Arm yourself against the police. If we're going to have all these guns, might as well stop some fascism with it.

Weren't you just arguing in the marijuana thread that we should all be obeying the law, even when we don't like it, and work to change the system through the legislature or suffer what we have coming? Now you're in this thread saying we need to arm ourselves against the police.

/Hello pot, it's Mr. Kettle

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. I see no conflict.

Really? You don't see a conflict with telling one group of people to obey the government and then turning around and telling another group of people to arm themselves against the police?

untaken_name: gadian: if the shootee survives, don't let him sue you're doing it wrong.

FTFM.

/keep firing until it clicks
//remember the phrase "I was in fear for my life"

It's Coming Right For Us!

dustman81: Remember, you can be a survivor or a statistic. The choice is yours.

Or I can choose to live in a country where gun crime is neither normal nor common.

/Hey, look at that, I do

Fail in Human Form: seancakes: Fail in Human Form: GAT_00: Arm yourself, but not against the criminals. You're much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than you were in 1994, no matter what they tell you. Crime rates plummeted starting in '94, with unproven reasons. The most known conclusion is that it was 20 years after Roe.

Arm yourself against the police. If we're going to have all these guns, might as well stop some fascism with it.

Weren't you just arguing in the marijuana thread that we should all be obeying the law, even when we don't like it, and work to change the system through the legislature or suffer what we have coming? Now you're in this thread saying we need to arm ourselves against the police.

/Hello pot, it's Mr. Kettle

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. I see no conflict.

Really? You don't see a conflict with telling one group of people to obey the government and then turning around and telling another group of people to arm themselves against the police?

while i disagree with the government's stance on marijuana personally, I can see why one might not want to be unarmed should the "white shirts" seen at the occupy protests act even more like the brownshirts of nazi fame. And, considering that the Constitution outlines that the people (in or out of a militia is subject to much interpretation, my own interpretation is an individual right) must protect the free state with the use of armament, then no, i still don't see any conflict with Gat's stance.

Personally, I don't care for law. I really only follow the ones i agree with, anyway.

Pro gun or anti gun, I think this is a pretty good reporting on gun control, gun laws, and pretty much how much ordinance -legal or not- you can get in the US (new window).

Wise_Guy: ParaHandy: The problem with all the "more guns make the world a safer place" arguments is (a) they aren't true, and (b) while there are responsible gun owners, handgun ownership attracts a certain type of idiot (new window) who ideally shouldn't even be allowed to have something as dangerous as a pickup truck.

How many of those violent crimes were committed by licensed gun owners?

How many of the guns used in violent crimes were originally purchased legally?

doglover: I'd rather have three of those banned gas knives and some extra blades.

Guns are nice, but no one expects a knife to suddenly jump 20 feet faster than an arrow. That's why they're super illegal.

They're also good for surprise. "Whoa man, don't shoot. I'm puttin' the knife DOWN! biatch. Now your guts are garters."

They're also complete garbage that likely owe their appearance in Blops and probably every other shooter to follow to Deadliest Warrior.

GAT_00: Arm yourself, but not against the criminals. You're much less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than you were in 1994, no matter what they tell you. Crime rates plummeted starting in '94, with unproven reasons. The most known conclusion is that it was 20 years after Roe.

Arm yourself against the police. If we're going to have all these guns, might as well stop some fascism with it.

There you go proving me wrong again, every time I think you can't say something more stupid......

ParaHandy: Wise_Guy: ParaHandy: The problem with all the "more guns make the world a safer place" arguments is (a) they aren't true, and (b) while there are responsible gun owners, handgun ownership attracts a certain type of idiot (new window) who ideally shouldn't even be allowed to have something as dangerous as a pickup truck.

How many of those violent crimes were committed by licensed gun owners?

How many of the guns used in violent crimes were originally purchased legally?

It doesn't really matter.

They will never get all the guns off the street, and making all guns illegal will do nothing but keep criminals armed while disarming the law abiding.

Either way, your graph is meaningless without context.

I'll disagree with the sheriff in that being armed isn't for everyone. If you think it's too much responsibility, you're right.

And I wish he had urged people who do choose to arm themselves to get professional training. Not from your friend "who was in the army" or your uncle "who knows all about guns".

BravadoGT: If this story doesn't call for a gun porn thread, what does?

My new CCW: Sig Sauer .380 Equinox. She's just so darn purty. It really does bring a tear to my eye...And she don't bite like that biatch LCP

[www.sigsauerguns.com image 636x348]

You lost me at .380...
If any one ever shot me with a .380 and I found out about it, I'd kick their ass.

/Glock 36
//.45
///very compact

Oblio13: I'll disagree with the sheriff in that being armed isn't for everyone. If you think it's too much responsibility, you're right.

And I wish he had urged people who do choose to arm themselves to get professional training. Not from your friend "who was in the army" or your uncle "who knows all about guns".

[i26.photobucket.com image 640x490]

What caliber are those pants?

Wise_Guy: Oblio13: I'll disagree with the sheriff in that being armed isn't for everyone. If you think it's too much responsibility, you're right.

And I wish he had urged people who do choose to arm themselves to get professional training. Not from your friend "who was in the army" or your uncle "who knows all about guns".

[i26.photobucket.com image 640x490]

What caliber are those pants?

I'm wondering where his glasses are. Anybody that needs that much ammunition to be assured of hitting anything probably ought not to be armed.

/"oh, I can shoot the eye out of a flying bird" response in 3....2......

brap: Get out of your reductive violent mindset, it is truly liberating. You see enemies everywhere because that is what you wish for.

[i253.photobucket.com image 349x605]

Yes, I see.....I'm only in danger of being attacked if thinking makes it so. That's logical. My daughter and I must have been thinking of experiencing an armed robbery, and how much we had missed out on that particular experience, when we were held up while we were walking back to her apartment in Chicago after dinner in January '05. I see your point. I'll try harder not to think of it from now on.

Oblio13: I'll disagree with the sheriff in that being armed isn't for everyone. If you think it's too much responsibility, you're right.

And I wish he had urged people who do choose to arm themselves to get professional training. Not from your friend "who was in the army" or your uncle "who knows all about guns".

[i26.photobucket.com image 640x490]

Put a Vang Comp System and a magazine extension on that baby and you'll have the baddest shotgun on the block

RatMaster999: ParaHandy: The problem with all the "more guns make the world a safer place" arguments is (a) they aren't true, and (b) while there are responsible gun owners, handgun ownership attracts a certain type of idiot (new window) who ideally shouldn't even be allowed to have something as dangerous as a pickup truck.

Nice graph. Now, can we get one that shows all murders, including those with knives? Oops, the US is suddenly out of the top spot. Make it violent crime in general, and we're out of the top 5, if not the top 10. And that's without counting Africa or the Mideast.

This!

Wise_Guy: ParaHandy: Wise_Guy: ParaHandy: The problem with all the "more guns make the world a safer place" arguments is (a) they aren't true, and (b) while there are responsible gun owners, handgun ownership attracts a certain type of idiot (new window) who ideally shouldn't even be allowed to have something as dangerous as a pickup truck.

How many of those violent crimes were committed by licensed gun owners?

How many of the guns used in violent crimes were originally purchased legally?

It doesn't really matter.

They will never get all the guns off the street, and making all guns illegal will do nothing but keep criminals armed while disarming the law abiding.

Either way, your graph is meaningless without context.

It's gun death rate vs gun ownership rate, and you can see a pretty strong correlation.

The point I find most interesting is Switzerland ... all the gun nuts always cite the Swiss an example of how a nation can have widespread gun ownership without gun violence, and I had always given that some credence to that with the Swiss "citizen militia" philosophy, but it's clearly in fact bullshiat - the Swiss have the 2nd highest gun death rate of any western country.

It seems to me that the right is very comfortable with using outright lies in support of their position ... I understand that one has to be misinformed to vote Republican and think it's a good idea, but they seem to embrace it. I recently asked a Herman Cain fan how they felt about the fact that billionaire investors like Warren Buffer would pay no income-related taxes under "999", and they gave me the "Duh, 9% of a billion is more than 9% of what I make" answer ... when I pointed out that Cain's plan is actually "9-9-9-0" with the 0% being for Capital Gains Tax, they called it "liberal math". Cain wants to shift more of the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor and lower middle class, but Perry is in some ways even worse - he wants to lower taxes.

As a result of a Bachmann comment someone else posted, I just had an epiphany about the agenda of the various GOP candidates and their loopy tax plans that will bankrupt the government and ruin the economy .... maybe the goal is to fark up the economy so badly that all the economic immigrants - the brown, illegal kind and the legal, white, educated (thus "liberal") kind like me - will pack up and get the fark out of Dodge. Then Amurrica will be left to the God fearing, gay hatin', gun totin' white folks.

/if so, I'm not sure what they plan to do about the Rich and Successful You Know Who's, but they can always roll back civil rights while they're undoing health care

+1 for the Sheriff.
+1 For everyone there who gets a CCW and a sidearm.
-1 For the criminals in that county, who I am sure will be thinking twice about pulling any shenanigans there once everyone arms themselves.

Look, I admit freely that as a solution to crime this will have a very ugly learning curve. However, once you get past that learning curve what you end up with is a significant drop in crime, as well as a noticeably more polite society. Bottom line is that when people stopped regularly carrying guns crime went up and jails became a multi-billion dollar industry. That is all fine and dandy, but we can no longer afford to spend that kind of money on people who can not function within the established boundaries of society.

Oh yeah, one more thing: +1 for the Sheriff's recommendation of the Taurus Judge as a personal protection weapon. It is an ideal choice.

ParaHandy: Wise_Guy: ParaHandy: Wise_Guy: ParaHandy: The problem with all the "more guns make the world a safer place" arguments is (a) they aren't true, and (b) while there are responsible gun owners, handgun ownership attracts a certain type of idiot (new window) who ideally shouldn't even be allowed to have something as dangerous as a pickup truck.

How many of those violent crimes were committed by licensed gun owners?

How many of the guns used in violent crimes were originally purchased legally?

It doesn't really matter.

They will never get all the guns off the street, and making all guns illegal will do nothing but keep criminals armed while disarming the law abiding.

Either way, your graph is meaningless without context.

It's gun death rate vs gun ownership rate, and you can see a pretty strong correlation.

The point I find most interesting is Switzerland ... all the gun nuts always cite the Swiss an example of how a nation can have widespread gun ownership without gun violence, and I had always given that some credence to that with the Swiss "citizen militia" philosophy, but it's clearly in fact bullshiat - the Swiss have the 2nd highest gun death rate of any western country.

It seems to me that the right is very comfortable with using outright lies in support of their position ... I understand that one has to be misinformed to vote Republican and think it's a good idea, but they seem to embrace it. I recently asked a Herman Cain fan how they felt about the fact that billionaire investors like Warren Buffer would pay no income-related taxes under "999", and they gave me the "Duh, 9% of a billion is more than 9% of what I make" answer ... when I pointed out that Cain's plan is actually "9-9-9-0" with the 0% being for Capital Gains Tax, they called it "liberal math". Cain wants to shift more of the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor and lower middle class, but Perry is in some ways even worse - he wants to lower taxes.

As a result of a Bachmann comment someone else posted, I just had an epiphany about the agenda of the various GOP candidates and their loopy tax plans that will bankrupt the government and ruin the economy .... maybe the goal is to fark up the economy so badly that all the economic immigrants - the brown, illegal kind and the legal, white, educated (thus "liberal") kind like me - will pack up and get the fark out of Dodge. Then Amurrica will be left to the God fearing, gay hatin', gun totin' white folks.

/if so, I'm not sure what they plan to do about the Rich and Successful You Know Who's, but they can always roll back civil rights while they're undoing health care

Nice tangent.

Anyway, yeah, more guns equals more crimes committed with guns.

Figure out a way to get guns out of the hands of criminals to alleviate this problem.